7th Gate Gai vs Ay and B

[Haizaki]

What? Lol

So... SM Minato vs JJ Madara goes like this [

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], and then 7th Gate Gai vs JJ Madara goes like this [

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][

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], and somehow Gai can't react to Ay?

Don't ever challenge King Bogard :stfu:

 

[Kenjamin Bing]

Since Gai has no feats or logical reasoning to have half of Madara's taijutsu power and ink clones are tiers above Hirudora as feats show. Base Bee beats him comfortably, let alone V1 or V2 Bee who not even final gated Gai can beat.

Base Bee solos mid diff.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Yeah, I know this. Lol. Your point?

Crushing boulders is something Ei can do as well, with absolute ease.

I said that V2 Ay isn't stronger than V1 Ay. Never said that V1 Ay isn't stronger than Base Ay.

That doesn't make sense. V2 is just pumping more chakra into V1 and V1 is just shaping chakra into armour. Either V1 augments his strength and V2 augments it further or V1 does not augment his strength and neither does V2. It can't be one and not the other.

No, it makes it easier and does more damage despite having less energy. But if the total energy of the blunt force attack far surpasses the piercing attack in question, then there is no argument to be had. Focusing isn't going to close that overwhelming gap.

No, just as much energy is in the piercing attack as the blunt force attack, its just concentrated while the blunt force attack is not. You only need to look at Chidori Vs Rasengan. To further this, just look at the Water Tank scenario:

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Chidori actually pierced said object, Rasengan hardly dented it, but then we look at the other side:

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Rasengan did more inner damage, enough to open up the other side. However with that said, it still needs to get past the 1st layer of defence to get to that point and it will have a tougher time getting through that 1st layer then a concentrated attack like Chidori.

Conclusion: Most of the force will be taken by Ei's hard skin and some inner damage might be caused, but the damage will not really be significant.

The strongest Hirudora shown has obliterated Susanoo, and Gai didn't try to kill him, so that punch means little for your argument.

Like I said, the partially offset Hirudora was what Kisame took and a punch from 7th Gated Gai right after. If we can take a offset Hirudora and then a 7th Gated Gai's punch after that, then you are grossly overrating 7th Gated Gais punches.

1. Gai used it in one fight. Point doesn't even begin to help you. Not to mention DB has stated that he's a master of many weapons, and that blunt weapons (Nunchaku) are his preference.

He used it in two actually. Kakashi mastered using Raikiri with a Sharingan, doesn't mean he will have anywhere near the same proficiency in attacking with Raikiri without a Sharingan.

2. Gai training only to use it at Base speed is an assumption, and an illogical one at that.

Ummm no its not, saying he can use it in the 7th Gate is the assumption, since he has never used it in that gate (or any gate for that matter) before. I am simply giving a logical reason as to why he wouldn't be able to use in the 7th Gate to support the fact that he never used it before while gated.

3. That assumes that he can't properly control his speed, but considering he can, there's literally no reason he'd hit himself. That's like saying Rinnegan Sasuke can't use his sword as effectively as Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke, cause there is a large speed difference between the two.

No it doesn't. He can have good control over his speed and still have a problem twirling his Nunchuka since he has never used it in unison with his greatly augmented speed. I would understand if the speed increase was minor, like 1st gate, or maybe 2nd. But when 7th Gate is in question, I am not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and neither should anyone who is impartial here.

That would only help explain how he got to him, not how he continued to push him back.

Ummm he attacked and Madara parried his attacks away. What are you trying to prove here? Are you saying Madara should have done something other then parrying his attacks?

Wrong. Gai charged Madara, Madara dashed back and parried his blows as Gai attacked, and then when Gai stopped to use Hirudora, Madara struck him down. That proves he can get in the far slower Ay's face, and do the same thing, but this time Ay can't overpower Hirudora.

I wasn't wrong about anything, I said he stood and overpowered Hirudora and that's exactly what he did. He can get in Ei's face, sure, but Ei can dodge from there since Gai has to pause to do the seal(s) and target Ei. And no, before you try and claim that Gai can do the seal and then get in Ei's face, he hasn't done that in the three instances he has used Hirudora so I don't see any reason to believe he can do it here.

Keep in mind that I am not saying Gai wouldn't be able to pull it off occasionally, but I think Ei dodges more times then not. If this was just Gai Vs Ei, Gai would win more times the not since he would have two tries but Bee is present as well (And Chakra arms can come in quite handy btw).

 

[Haizaki]

^^^Kidgamer you're wasting your time with this guy..He once argued that Gai could use AT in base.

Gai paused to do the seal in Madara's face...Well you did say you were rusty with you Naruto. What makes this guy look silly is how he thinks Gai can't use Nunchaku in the 7th Gate..At least let's all reason before we speak. That makes 0 sense.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

^^^Kidgamer you're wasting your time with this guy..He once argued that Gai could use AT in base.

I argued he could use Hirudora in base, but I eventually conceded. Not like I stood by that opinion for long, you just never brought good evidence until the final post. Nice strawman though.

Gai paused to do the seal in Madara's face...Well you did say you were rusty with you Naruto.

Yeah, no shit, that's what I said. Reading comprehension needs polishing.

What makes this guy look silly is how he thinks Gai can't use Nunchaku in the 7th Gate..At least let's all reason before we speak. That makes 0 sense.

How does that make 0 sense? Do you know why Raikiri did not work for Kid Kakashi in battle? BECAUSE HE WAS TOO FAST. Speed screws things up as far as control goes, that's been consistent in the manga since chapter 1. Why are we assuming that Gai can use a complicated weapon with x10 his speed (hypothetically speaking) just as easily as he can use it with regular speed, the speed he MASTERED it at. If that was as obvious as you are trying to make it out to be, why didnt he canonically use his nunchuks in unison with his gates? 1-5 Gates have no real attacks going for them like 6,7 and 8 do, why not use it in those gates to GREATLY increase his chance of winning instead of using it in BASE both times he has used them? Someone is clearly biased here.

 

[Haizaki]

He used it in two actually. Kakashi mastered using Raikiri with a Sharingan, doesn't mean he will have anywhere near the same proficiency in attacking with Raikiri without a Sharingan.

I can't believe...Your reason for why Gai can't use Nunchaku in the 7th/6th.

Kakashi can use Raikiri better with an enhancement(The Sharingan)...Gai gets an enhancement upon opening the Gates. How does one being able to use something better with an enhancement prove your point of one not being able to do so with his own enhancement? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

I can't believe...Your reason for why Gai can't use Nunchaku in the 7th/6th.

Kakashi can use Raikiri better with an enhancement(The Sharingan)...Gai gets an enhancement upon opening the Gates. How does one being able to use something better with an enhancement prove your point of one not being able to do so with his own enhancement? Doesn't make sense.

Gai gets an enhancements in speed and strength, which means loss of control for everything else he does while using said enhancement. More speed = less control NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING. FACT. I addressed this in my post against you, just read that.

 

[Bogard]

How does that make 0 sense? Do you know why Raikiri did not work for Kid Kakashi in battle? BECAUSE HE WAS TOO FAST. Speed screws things up as far as control goes, that's been consistent in the manga since chapter 1. Why are we assuming that Gai can use a complicated weapon with x10 his speed (hypothetically speaking) just as easily as he can use it with regular speed, the speed he MASTERED it at. If that was as obvious as you are trying to make it out to be, why didnt he canonically use his nunchuks in unison with his gates? 1-5 Gates have no real attacks going for them like 6,7 and 8 do, why not use it in those gates to GREATLY increase his chance of winning instead of using it in BASE both times he has used them? Someone is clearly biased here.

Exactly

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Though i do think he can use nunchuks in 7gates if he controls his movement speed to a regular state(something he showed the ability to do)

 

[Haizaki]

I argued he could use Hirudora in base, but I eventually conceded. Not like I stood by that opinion for long, you just never brought good evidence until the final post. Nice strawman though.

Yeah, no shit, that's what I said. Reading comprehension needs polishing.

Lol I wonder why we're discussing this:

And no, before you try and claim that Gai can do the seal and then get in Ei's face

Irrelevant in that case.

How does that make 0 sense? Do you know why Raikiri did not work for Kid Kakashi in battle? BECAUSE HE WAS TOO FAST. Speed screws things up as far as control goes, that's been consistent in the manga since chapter 1. Why are we assuming that Gai can use a complicated weapon with x10 his speed (hypothetically speaking) just as easily as he can use it with regular speed, the speed he MASTERED it at. If that was as obvious as you are trying to make it out to be, why didnt he canonically use his nunchuks in unison with his gates? 1-5 Gates have no real attacks going for them like 6,7 and 8 do, why not use it in those gates to GREATLY increase his chance of winning instead of using it in BASE both times he has used them?

Stop dude just stop..This comparison is horrible. Gai is a master in terms of weaponry like the DB state. You're here arguing that with his body enhancements which is different to Kakashi's case due to him not having something to cover up

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(Top left) .."It's incomplete because of the Sharingan" There's the fact that Raikiri is a linear attack as well.

How that compares to Gai's case who doesn't even need such is ridiculous....@Bold Perhaps because he has powerful attacks. What kind of question is this Lmao. Perhaps because his Base form was enough as shown against Obito. Perhaps because against Kisame he resorted to his powerful attack right off the bat when he opened the gates.

Let's not use "Why didn't he" when there was not a need for him to do so Lol.

 

[Haizaki]

You guys need to read properly " A straight forward attack" =/= this scenario.

 

[Beans2]

Wait if Raiton chakra V2 mode doesn't increase physical strength then why was ribcage Susanoo not scratched from V1 Ay's Liger Bomb, but was busted by V2 Ay's lateral chop?

 

[Haizaki]

^^Because V1 Liger bomb already weakened the Ribcage.

 

[EliteKakashi]

I can't believe...Your reason for why Gai can't use Nunchaku in the 7th/6th.

Kakashi can use Raikiri better with an enhancement(The Sharingan)...Gai gets an enhancement upon opening the Gates. How does one being able to use something better with an enhancement prove your point of one not being able to do so with his own enhancement? Doesn't make sense.

^ Not only that, but you're comparing the epitome of ninja physical abilities against Kid Kakashi, who while skilled, is leagues below Gai in taijutsu and everything included in it, including reaction speed/eye speed.

I would guarantee Gai could use raikiri(assuming of course he learned it) without any drawbacks because his reaction and eye speed is that great. Adult Kakashi likely could as well. There's been techniques that require more speed than raikiri used without an enhancement like the sharingan. Kid Kakashi's use of raikiri wasn't even that fast, especially compared to later versions used by Kakashi, which included going the speed of Gai's asa kujaku punches.

Minato's entire point about Kid Kakashi being unable to use chidori is the fact that HIS eyes couldn't keep up with the speed of his attack. Gai clearly does not have that issue given he fought against a juubi jin moving at 7th and 8th gate speeds and had no such issues with matching him. The gates offer physical upgrades in strength and body speed, but improving what the eyes can see is not noted anywhere to be one of them, and when you have people like Minato who, in base, has speeds that match cloaked Raikages and is still able to fight/react without any special doujutsu or physical upgrades like a raiton cloak or gates, it's obvious that it's possible to train your eyes in the ninja world to be able to track better/faster.

 

[Bogard]

Wait if Raiton chakra V2 mode doesn't increase physical strength then why was ribcage Susanoo not scratched from V1 Ay's Liger Bomb, but was busted by V2 Ay's lateral chop?

It's the ground that does the heavy damage during the Liger Bomb with Ay just lifting the target and sending it crashing on said ground, having nothing to do with his physical strength, more like the momentum created by his lifting strength while closing in the distance and crashing on the ground to do damage. It works differently from lateral shop where Ay's actual physical strength is responsible of the amount of damage. Besides, liger bomb already weakened the ribcage if i recall eventhough my memory isn't that great concerning the event

Besides, the momentum created by speed can increase the offensive capability while running at a certain speed with V2 allowing Ay to run at faster speed than in V1, upgrading his reaction speed while increasing the boost with lightning enhanced shunshin. However in a static position, there should really be no difference in physical damage between being hit by Ay in V1 or in V2

 

[Haizaki]

^ Not only that, but you're comparing the epitome of ninja physical abilities against Kid Kakashi, who while skilled, is leagues below Gai in taijutsu and everything included in it, including reaction speed/eye speed.

I would guarantee Gai could use raikiri(assuming of course he learned it) without any drawbacks because his reaction and eye speed is that great. Adult Kakashi likely could as well. There's been techniques that require more speed than raikiri used without an enhancement like the sharingan. Kid Kakashi's use of raikiri wasn't even that fast, especially compared to later versions used by Kakashi, which included going the speed of Gai's asa kujaku punches.

Minato's entire point about Kid Kakashi being unable to use chidori is the fact that HIS eyes couldn't keep up with the speed of his attack. Gai clearly does not have that issue given he fought against a juubi jin moving at 7th and 8th gate speeds and had no such issues with matching him. The gates offer physical upgrades in strength and body speed, but improving what the eyes can see is not noted anywhere to be one of them, and when you have people like Minato who, in base, has speeds that match cloaked Raikages and is still able to fight/react without any special doujutsu or physical upgrades like a raiton cloak or gates, it's obvious that it's possible to train your eyes in the ninja world to be able to track better/faster.

Was this in response to me? Because I don't get this at all.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Was this in response to me? Because I don't get this at all.

No. Was backing your statement up, in response to people saying Gai wouldn't be able to use the nunchaku in gates, using Kid Kakashi's raikiri use as the main point.

 

[Haizaki]

No. Was backing your statement up, in response to people saying Gai wouldn't be able to use the nunchaku in gates, using Kid Kakashi's raikiri use as the main point.

I figured haha...Looked to good and inclined with mine to be against it. Just got it mixed because I was quoted bro.

 

[Mugen Onsa]

The way I see it, neither Ay or Bee have any feat even close to what Gai did against Madara. Trying to downplay that feat just oozes bias. Gai wins both.

Lmfao at the people who said V2 Bee could solo. V2 Ay can't beat Gai yet somehow Bee can? Amazing.

Not to mention that clown got punked by Kisame, who got punked by Gai on two separate occasion. I know ABC logic doesn't work, but it's still kind of funny how some people think V2 Bee stands a chance against 7th Gate Gai.

 

[LuckyMan]

Don't forget Base Ay can obliterate SS hands that were making big craters in the ground.

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Posting from my phone so replies will be late.

 

[Bogard]

^
I would guarantee Gai could use raikiri(assuming of course he learned
Minato's entire point about Kid Kakashi being unable to use chidori is the fact that HIS eyes couldn't keep up with the speed of his attack. Gai clearly does not have that issue given he fought against a juubi jin moving at 7th and 8th nd had no such issues with matching him.

Too bad i can't continue the discussion properly but what you said here is really interesting eventhough i disagree with the rest of your post. Lee who studies under the same discipline as Gai also said his eyes couldn't up keep up while running at chidori Sasuke lvl of speed when he could open 5gates and be even fasrmter. That alone shows the difference between running, striking and reaction speed(in hand with eye coordination) that you mentioned a little eventhough contradicting yourself and i don't think using Minato as an example is great considering he can easily have been born with speed of synapses going that fast just like how no one can be born with the same amount of IQ

Typing on a phone, so there can be mistake here and there and i'm not sure if we could continue this discussion anytime soon but we will see anyway