[VS] Ohnoki can beat EMS Madara

[Lord Tywin]

Back like I said.

Why not? Is this because you can't go any further? The meteors isn't really that much of a feat compared to Perfect Susanoo. Saying that this is EMS Madara without the meteors means that they are superior to Perfect Susanoo, does it not? Which isn't in any form true.

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because what you're saying has nothing to do with the match up. I never said ps is less destructive than the meteors. I said Ohnoki was able to lighten the meteor enough to let gaara hold it with his sand.

Right, it matters only so much. And it's not going to mean anything at all if it isn't hitting Madara. Not only this, Tsunade-Onoki's collaborated Jinton was still dwarfed by PS. Unless you're telling me that Onoki's chakra level can surpass what Tsunade transferred.

Once again you're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say Ohnoki has to destroy the entirety of ps. He doesn't have to. Ohnoki has to destroy the part that Madara is located in.
ohnoki's jinton was said to be able to destroy the turtle island, and turtle island>>>ps in size. If Ohnoki hits where Madara is located, he can get past susanoo and kill him.

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PS'a speed feats isn't going to matter since Onoki was completely thrown away by an unaimed PS slash. Madara doesn't have to directly aim at him. Hell, with his EMS, he doesn't even need PS for Onoki to begin with.

Yeah, being harder to hit

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That would only work if Onoki is faster than Madara.

yes they have the same type. And I said that Madara can obviously keep up with Ohnoki. His susanoo can't. You can't give speed feats from Sasuke's susanoo to Madara's, just like you can't give dc feats from Madara's to Sasuke's. And it's easier to avoid an incoming blade towards you than seeing the shockwave produced by hitting a mountain. Also the fact that a beat up Ohnoki was fine after that shockwave.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. All of Edo Madara's attacks pale in comparison to PS-which he noted to be his full power. Furthermore, Madara already shat on Mu and Onoki in canon without going all out. By feats, Mu is a rich man's Onoki. Once PS comes out, Onoki gets fodderized. He can't simply evade something which cuts off mountain tops from a distance with extreme speed. He doesn't even need PS to win to be honest.

I fail to see how anything less than ps would even phase ohnoki.

 

[Draphsin]

Muu wasn't as impressive as Ohnoki. Feats suggest that he can't even handle a legged susanoo, unlike Ohnoki.

Muu has invisibility which is harder to track, plus jinton works extremely well against susanoo & not to mention onoki got a chakra boost. Muu w/ that same boost could also deal w/ those susanoos.

you should know that Obito was trying to lose.

He didn't have to lose, he could've killed kakashi when they traded blows. The fact that kakashi still managed to keep up w/ him like when they were children shows that senju dna didn't affect him in terms of speed/power/etc.

Also Madara's enhancements>Obito's. Proven by their level of wood release.

That doesn't mean anything in regards to their enhancements though. Madara is just a better mokuton user, that's it. They both produced katon that was the exact same size & that's a more valid comparison to make considering they're both uchiha who specialize in katon.

Danzo had senju dna, still lost to MS sasuke. Yamato has senju dna & better mokuton abilities than obito, would still lose to kakashi in terms of speed. SZ + Yamato, the character who was casually pushing back kage w/ his SS, got blitzed by suigetsu.

Senju dna doesn't change your overall performance, it just gives you certain abilities [mild regeneration, more chakra, etc].

Sasuke's =/=Madara. Madara's susanoo=\=Sasuke's. Sasuke's susanoo has shown far better speed feats than Madara's. Actually Madara's susanoo basically featless in speed.

They have the

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of mangekyou. & Madara is a more skilled shinobi + the first uchiha to awaken the rinnegan. He's been fighting for his entire life & has had his mangekyou for much longer than sasuke. There's no reason to believe that madara is somehow behind sasuke in terms of speed/reactions just because his susanoo never fought a juubi jin. Again a blind madara was dancing around EMS sasuke's blade, senju dna didn't help w/ that.

Ohnoki's fast enough to dodge. It's hard to hit an opponent, as small as Ohnoki is, with that sword.

The massive AoE makes up for it, even if the sword itself misses onoki the shockwave will still hit him. And as I said previously sasuke did a good job at hitting a flying juubi jin so I don't see the problem for someone who's portrayed to be superior in essentially every way.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Muu has invisibility which is harder to track, plus jinton works extremely well against susanoo & not to mention onoki got a chakra boost. Muu w/ that same boost could also deal w/ those susanoos.

Muu needs to be visible to initiate jinton. Any top tier with moderate reaction speed would see him coming.
Also I think that Muu and Ohnoki vs Madara shouldn't matter. Neither Muu nor Ohnoki were at their best. Heck Ohnoki was a teen. The same age as Naruto and Sasuke.

He didn't have to lose, he could've killed kakashi when they traded blows. The fact that kakashi still managed to keep up w/ him like when they were children shows that senju dna didn't affect him in terms of speed/power/etc.



That doesn't mean anything in regards to their enhancements though. Madara is just a better mokuton user, that's it. They both produced katon that was the exact same size & that's a more valid comparison to make considering they're both uchiha who specialize in Katon.


Danzo had senju dna, still lost to MS sasuke. Yamato has senju dna & better mokuton abilities than obito, would still lose to kakashi in terms of speed. SZ + Yamato, the character who was casually pushing back kage w/ his SS, got blitzed by suigetsu.

Senju dna doesn't change your overall performance, it just gives you certain abilities [mild regeneration, more chakra, etc].

No, Madara's enhancement is obviously different. He was pulling out techniques on Hashirama's level. He's enhanced more than Obito. Obito had a Zetsu body, while Madara had actual body piece from Hashirama. Same is true about the other ones. Hashirama's DNA enhances the entire body. Obito almost shattered a huge boulder a little while after he received half of zetsu.

They have the

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of mangekyou . & Madara is a more skilled shinobi + the first uchiha to awaken the rinnegan. He's been fighting for his entire life & has had his mangekyou for much longer than sasuke. There's no reason to believe that madara is somehow behind sasuke in terms of speed/reactions just because his susanoo never fought a juubi jin. Again a blind madara was dancing around EMS sasuke's blade, senju dna didn't help w/ that.

Again how does this prove that Madara's susanoo is as fast as Sasuke's? Madara basically has nothing for him in speed department with his ps.
And it seems you forgot Hashirama's face with sage mode on Madara's chest. That has nothing to do with senju enhancement

The massive AoE makes up for it, even if the sword itself misses onoki the shockwave will still hit him. And as I said previously sasuke did a good job at hitting a flying juubi jin so I don't see the problem for someone who's portrayed to be superior in essentially every way.

Sasuke's speed in susanoo>>Madara's. Fact. Give me a proper feat of speed from Madara in ps. Madara overall>Ems Sasuke.

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

Fail thread, EMS Madara would kill Ohnoki low diff

 

[TRE MERCER]

Madara shits no low difficulty.​

 

[Draphsin]

Muu needs to be visible to initiate jinton. Any top tier with moderate reaction speed would see him coming.

Invisibility still makes him a more dangerous opponent to face. Jinton is just adding onto what makes onoki so powerful.

Also I think that Muu and Ohnoki vs Madara shouldn't matter. Neither Muu nor Ohnoki were at their best. Heck Ohnoki was a teen. The same age as Naruto and Sasuke.

Is there proof of the bold? & Teens can still be powerful, naruto & sasuke are examples of that. Onoki as added support w/ a character who can fight on par w/ an older onoki should be more of a challenge than just fighting onoki himself, or at the very least similar. He still didn't use PS against them, & if that's the case then PS should be overkill here.

No, Madara's enhancement is obviously different. He was pulling out techniques on Hashirama's level.

As I said mokuton skill is irrelevant. Madara just has more experience w/ the KKG due to experiencing & copying it firsthand, & his chakra levels got boosted by hashi's DNA hence the hashi level mokuton.

He's enhanced more than Obito. Obito had a Zetsu body, while Madara had actual body piece from Hashirama.

This is also irrelevant. Yamato had a more powerful enhancement which

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, still a fodder in terms of base stats though.

SZ is the same way, he can boost one's use of mokuton but he never boosted the user's overall speed & strength.

Same is true about the other ones. Hashirama's DNA enhances the entire body. Obito almost shattered a huge boulder a little while after he received half of zetsu.

No, his base stats never really increased due to the dna unless you count durability as a base stat. When obito broke the rock it was due to his strong chakra from being an uchiha + the senju dna simply increasing it. We see in the very next scan that the

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allowed SZ to break the rock later, not his actual body. Obito's body wasn't strong [hence his arm breaking] but his chakra was & that's what he used to break the rock, similar to what tsunade & sakura do w/ their chakra enhanced punches [but obviously not on the same scale].

Anyways that still won't change his reaction time & cqc abilities. Madara's overall speed was untouched since obito's wasn't & they can produce jutsus on the same scale. Only chakra was boosted.

Again how does this prove that Madara's susanoo is as fast as Sasuke's? Madara basically has nothing for him in speed department with his ps.

Okay, forget the bold. I actually don't need to prove that madara's susanoo is as fast as sasuke's, I just need to prove that it's fast enough to hit onoki which I'll do.

We'll start basic,

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we see madara's PS having the speed to spin 360 degrees & chop off mountain tops, what makes this impressive is the fact that all the tops got cut at the exact same time. This implies that PS has the speed to hit multiple mountains simultaneously w/ a single stroke of it's blade.

& Now the more impressive feat, we know how bijuu dama blades are made right? Madara

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&

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then launches it. Well the act alone of sticking a tbb w/ his blade would be equivalent to PS swinging it's sword since it's doing the same thing except swinging up instead of down. W/ that being said when we look at

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of those bijuu dama blades he makes it becomes quite clear that PS can swing it's sword as fast as a bijuu can produce continuous tbbs at least.

Madara's PS can swing it's blade multiple times within a single panel, & each one of those slashes can cover a mountain range. It's speed should be leagues ahead of onoki's unless he can easily cover mountain ranges.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Literally remembered about this thread today. I could respond If you're up to it.

Invisibility still makes him a more dangerous opponent to face. Jinton is just adding onto what makes onoki so powerful.



Is there proof of the bold? & Teens can still be powerful, naruto & sasuke are examples of that. Onoki as added support w/ a character who can fight on par w/ an older onoki should be more of a challenge than just fighting onoki himself, or at the very least similar. He still didn't use PS against them, & if that's the case then PS should be overkill here.



As I said mokuton skill is irrelevant. Madara just has more experience w/ the KKG due to experiencing & copying it firsthand, & his chakra levels got boosted by hashi's DNA hence the hashi level mokuton.



This is also irrelevant. Yamato had a more powerful enhancement which

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, still a fodder in terms of base stats though.

SZ is the same way, he can boost one's use of mokuton but he never boosted the user's overall speed & strength.



No, his base stats never really increased due to the dna unless you count durability as a base stat. When obito broke the rock it was due to his strong chakra from being an uchiha + the senju dna simply increasing it. We see in the very next scan that the

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allowed SZ to break the rock later, not his actual body. Obito's body wasn't strong [hence his arm breaking] but his chakra was & that's what he used to break the rock, similar to what tsunade & sakura do w/ their chakra enhanced punches [but obviously not on the same scale].

Anyways that still won't change his reaction time & cqc abilities. Madara's overall speed was untouched since obito's wasn't & they can produce jutsus on the same scale. Only chakra was boosted.



Okay, forget the bold. I actually don't need to prove that madara's susanoo is as fast as sasuke's, I just need to prove that it's fast enough to hit onoki which I'll do.

We'll start basic,

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we see madara's PS having the speed to spin 360 degrees & chop off mountain tops, what makes this impressive is the fact that all the tops got cut at the exact same time. This implies that PS has the speed to hit multiple mountains simultaneously w/ a single stroke of it's blade.

& Now the more impressive feat, we know how bijuu dama blades are made right? Madara

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&

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then launches it. Well the act alone of sticking a tbb w/ his blade would be equivalent to PS swinging it's sword since it's doing the same thing except swinging up instead of down. W/ that being said when we look at

You must be registered for see links

of those bijuu dama blades he makes it becomes quite clear that PS can swing it's sword as fast as a bijuu can produce continuous tbbs at least.

Madara's PS can swing it's blade multiple times within a single panel, & each one of those slashes can cover a mountain range. It's speed should be leagues ahead of onoki's unless he can easily cover mountain ranges.

 

[KidGamer65]

Isn't this the part where you say "Haha got you guys!"?

 

[Lord Tywin]

Isn't this the part where you say "Haha got you guys!"?

no bud I still believe Ohnoki can beat him.

 

[Prince Charles]

lmao what is this guy, a clown? Ems madara -0 diff.

 

[Holy God]

no bud I still believe Ohnoki can beat him.

I'm assuming you're taking the fight in the mindset of where the character would do anything and go all-out. This allows Ohnoki to become a threat, but contingent on one thing: whether or not he can use his atomic techniques while mobile. If he can, of course he could push a large barrier that destroys everything in front of it towards the Susano'o, therefore causing Madara to have to disassemble it to move away, but even then Madara will win in this scenario because the chakra of something like that is far too taxing for Ohnoki to keep up with.

Finally, there'd also be the fact that Perfect Susano'o can fly, which completely demolishes the argument of Ohnoki's previous air superiority. I won't take this into account however because then he'd have absolutely no possibility of success.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I'm assuming you're taking the fight in the mindset of where the character would do anything and go all-out. This allows Ohnoki to become a threat, but contingent on one thing: whether or not he can use his atomic techniques while mobile. If he can, of course he could push a large barrier that destroys everything in front of it towards the Susano'o, therefore causing Madara to have to disassemble it to move away, but even then Madara will win in this scenario because the chakra of something like that is far too taxing for Ohnoki to keep up with.

Finally, there'd also be the fact that Perfect Susano'o can fly, which completely demolishes the argument of Ohnoki's previous air superiority. I won't take this into account however because then he'd have absolutely no possibility of success.

Ohnoki can win if he uses his weighted rock technique on perfect susanoo. Also we don't know if Madara's PS can fly. We've seen susanoo only fly when it's powered up by rikudo's chakra.

 

[Holy God]

Ohnoki can win if he uses his weighted rock technique on perfect susanoo. Also we don't know if Madara's PS can fly. We've seen susanoo only fly when it's powered up by rikudo's chakra.

Ohnoki would have to touch Perfect Susano'o for far too long in order to get it heavy enough. I don't think he'd get the chance to do so. The DataBook also had stated the Perfect Susano'o able to fly, and listed Madara as the only owner(before Sasuke ever achieved the form). Combine that with the fact there are giant wing-like figures on it's back, then you come to only one conclusion.

 

[Selan]

Please. Onoki is Madara's ***** low diff, ask Kishimoto.

 

[DMT]

3 tomoe Madara beats Onoki with mid difficulty.

No 3T Madara gets raped


as for this thread, Onoki lose

 

[Izanamı.]

I agree Onoki gets shitstomped.