Who is stronger ems sasuke or bujji naruto?

[King Of Pop]

If PS is restricted then even KCM Naruto High diff'd him.

BM Naruto Moderately Low-Diffs him even with PS, no way is it getting any higher than that.​

​

Ps or not kcm loses. He is not handling a jumping soosano that can slash him down, enton that can counter his frs etc you people should stop overating him

 

[Netflix and Chill]

Ok, my bad for the misinterpretation. I'll agree that 4 clones is reasonable.

Ok

1. If FRS is coming at him from multiple sides, jumping means they go right past each other and he never gets anywhere near the blast radius, then the COFRS coming from above is hit with Amaterasu.

No, they collide and explode. Even if only 2 collide that sets of the rest and Sasuke gets caught in the blast. I do admit that the CORS however would get lit on fire by Amataratsu. That being said, let's say he does make it out of the explosion, he then gets pushed by 2 of the clones, one goes in for CQC with

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the other launches another FRS at Sasuke while he tries to avoid MBD. Also before you say the clone gets Amataratsued remember that he can use a chakra arm to just swat it away effortlessly. The real Naruto uses that time for Kurama to mold enough chakra for another CORS, just for safe measures.

2. Even if it'd magically explode w/o touching anything, the blast radius of a normal FRS is

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, something Sasuke already knows as he's seen Naruto's FRS. Ay, and KCM Naruto can jump higher than that along with Ay's father let alone a Complete Legged or an Armored Legged Susanoo. The width is irrelevant since as long as he's higher than the blast, it won't touch him.

Already addressed this above.

Naruto fires 4 FRS from the sides, and one from above. That's your initial set up. They come at Sasuke from the sides, he jumps, COFRS comes from above, Amaterasu turns it to flame, and then Naruto gets cut down in a heartbeat.

Addressed tho above as well and no, Naruto pushes him for CQC directly after the initial attack.

If he does survive, it'll be because he tanked it with PS, so he won't need to reconstruct anything as there will be no damage.

Not sure if you posted on the other thread about this yet but if you did I'll address this there shortly. Sasuke does not have PS.

He doesn't need to be a chakra beast like Naruto to use his own techniques with little drawback.

-Multiple uses of Amaterasu.
-Multiple uses of Susanoo.
-Multiple uses of other techs.
-Summoning a Boss Summon.
-Using PS.

And he never showed fatigue.

Agreed. No argument here.

Impossible. If they throw FRS and Sasuke jumps, he won't be able to tag the others. The only time he'll take care of COFRS is when he's evaded the other FRS. Besides, Amaterasu can be used so quickly that he can handle it and still have enough time to take care of the rest.

Addressed this already and please show me a scan/proof of Sasuke using Amataratsued in quick succession on targets moving as fast as Sasuke's arrows. If your talking about what Sasuke did to those zetsu clones then Naruto dodges those with ease.

Reasonable.

He won't get hit, so he won't need to reconstruct everything, and like I said above. Sasuke spammed Susanoo, Amaterasu, used Genjutsu, and summoned at least twice along with using PS and he wasn't anywhere near empty. Attrition is a non factor in this fight.

He will get hit, I showed how above and he didn't have PS.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. He didn't show it simply because he unlocked it on the spot, or he chose not to. Either way, making up explanations to try and invalidate a feat that already happened isn't going to help your case.

C'mon son! Sasuke never showed

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till after he gained Rikudou's chakra. I'll give you the break down

Sasuke after received Naruto's cloak=

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Sasuke after being directly joined to Naruto's power=

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Sasuke after receiving Hagoromo's chakra=

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Noticing a pattern?

Fine. I'll be posting in that thread shortly.

Be there shortly.

"PS Chidori won't be able to hit KCM Naruto dashing around"

Is that not your argument? Lol. That definitely seems like an assertion to me, not a counter. Anyway...

No that clearly wasn't my argument I was just defending my stance against someone's assertion that PS Chidori hits Naruto. I never even went into detail or even brought it up in my initial set up because it wasn't going be that much of a factor to begin with (to an extent).

Oh boy...So now KCM Naruto moves faster than a Juubi Jinchuuriki?

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look at the distance where Kisame is. So fast all they saw was a yellow flash.

Naruto shown using shunshin in KCM

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that it just seems like he teleported. Granted he travels from one place to the next, it's just so fast that it seems like teleportation. The other 3 feats are of him in BM so I'm not even gunna bother to show those.

1. BSM Naruto said Obito is fast. Why would he be having trouble with Obito if he's slower than Naruto in a weaker form? Makes no sense unless you assert that KCM Naruto>BSM Naruto in speed, which also makes no sense.



If he was only as fast as Naruto himself in a weaker form, then Naruto would've easily tagged him with zero difficulty.

2. Mindless Juubito blitzed an EMS Sasuke who hadn't adjusted to his speed, and KCM Naruto, who is far slower than BSM Naruto. Second of all, EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto had to actually get used to his speed before they could track it, hence why they got blitzed earlier.

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I concede on the speed thing. Lol thought I could get away with that one :wesobi:

Then there's the fact that Shunshin is trajectory motion. You not being able to see it doesn't make it some kind of teleportation. Shunshin is only high speed movement by using chakra to explode off the ground, giving the impression that you teleported. Then there's the other fact that Shunshin being burst speed doesn't automatically put it above any other speed that isn't burst speed....otherwise we'd be saying everyone's Shunshin>Fastest character's flight speed, which is false.

Yea, I never said it wasn't, never implied it either. If you read closely you would've seen that I was noting the differences in how fast Obito/Naruto's shunshin speed is or how it's portrayed and how fast Obito's flight speed is and how it's portrayed in the manga. I appreciate the explanation but this is all moot.

Lol, JJ Madara. How is this suppose to prove your point anyway? I figured you were going to link someone close to his actual level.

You said "Oh? Didn't know that Obito and Madara tracked someone faster than Juubito." All I did was show you "Madara" tracking "someone faster than Juubito".

 

[KidGamer65]

No, they collide and explode. Even if only 2 collide that sets of the rest and Sasuke gets caught in the blast.

Yes, the FRS collide, and then Sasuke evades because he's above the blast.

I do admit that the CORS however would get lit on fire by Amataratsu. That being said, let's say he does make it out of the explosion, he then gets pushed by 2 of the clones, one goes in for CQC with

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the other launches another FRS at Sasuke while he tries to avoid MBD. Also before you say the clone gets Amataratsued remember that he can use a chakra arm to just swat it away effortlessly. The real Naruto uses that time for Kurama to mold enough chakra for another CORS, just for safe measures.

Mini Bijuu Dama doesn't even have the feats to do serious damage to a V2 Susanoo. Legged Armored Susanoo tanks it with no damage, and then Sasuke swats the incoming clone w/ his Enton Blade. Evading isn't going to work since Sasuke can follow every movement he makes via Sharingan, and Susanoo gives him the speed to tag him. After that is over, the real Naruto gets taken care of by Susanoo.

Addressed tho above as well and no, Naruto pushes him for CQC directly after the initial attack.

CQC is basically a death sentence for Naruto. Mini Bijuu Dama can't damage an Armored Susanoo, let alone a full bodied one, and Sasuke can easily tag the clone trying to hit him with Rasen Shuriken.

Not sure if you posted on the other thread about this yet but if you did I'll address this there shortly. Sasuke does not have PS.

He does.

Addressed this already and please show me a scan/proof of Sasuke using Amataratsued in quick succession on targets moving as fast as Sasuke's arrows. If your talking about what Sasuke did to those zetsu clones then Naruto dodges those with ease.

Quick succession? Targets? Lol. There's only one target, and it's the COFRS. He's already followed Juubito, so following something that only moves as fast as a Susanoo Arrow isn't going to be hard.

He will get hit, I showed how above and he didn't have PS.

Lol, addressed.

C'mon son! Sasuke never showed

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till after he gained Rikudou's chakra. I'll give you the break down

Smh.

Sasuke after received Naruto's cloak=

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Yes.

Sasuke after being directly joined to Naruto's power=

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Wrong. Sasuke armoring Naruto=/=Naruto giving Sasuke power. Sasuke being in Naruto's Avatar=/=Sasuke getting a power boost from Naruto. If you think he's being buffed, you better prove it and show me where he got his chakra.

The Susanoo that covered the Kyuubi is PS.

Sasuke after receiving Hagoromo's chakra=

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Noticing a pattern?

Yes, I notice a pattern. People who claim that he didn't use PS before getting Hagoromo's power make the same flawed arguments.

No that clearly wasn't my argument I was just defending my stance against someone's assertion that PS Chidori hits Naruto. I never even went into detail or even brought it up in my initial set up because it wasn't going be that much of a factor to begin with (to an extent).

Ok.

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look at the distance where Kisame is. So fast all they saw was a yellow flash.

Your point?

Naruto shown using shunshin in KCM

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that it just seems like he teleported. Granted he travels from one place to the next, it's just so fast that it seems like teleportation. The other 3 feats are of him in BM so I'm not even gunna bother to show those.

None of these show him moving faster than a JJ tho.

I concede on the speed thing. Lol thought I could get away with that one :wesobi:

Lol, this guy.

Yea, I never said it wasn't, never implied it either. If you read closely you would've seen that I was noting the differences in how fast Obito/Naruto's shunshin speed is or how it's portrayed and how fast Obito's flight speed is and how it's portrayed in the manga. I appreciate the explanation but this is all moot.

Ok.

You said "Oh? Didn't know that Obito and Madara tracked someone faster than Juubito." All I did was show you "Madara" tracking "someone faster than Juubito".

I thought it was an important part of the argument.

 

[Netflix and Chill]

Yes, the FRS collide, and then Sasuke evades because he's above the blast.

No your not getting what in saying, how would Sasuke know to jump that high? The explosion

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once would be massive no? The only one between them that knows roughly how large the blast radius would be is Naruto. Yes Sasuke may jump up but no way is he just jumping that high just because. The highest I remember Sasuke jump in legged Susano is when he 1st used legged Susano and cut shinju root, I could be wrong if so feel free to provide the scans.

Mini Bijuu Dama doesn't even have the feats to do serious damage to a V2 Susanoo. Legged Armored Susanoo tanks it with no damage, and then Sasuke swats the incoming clone w/ his Enton Blade. Evading isn't going to work since Sasuke can follow every movement he makes via Sharingan, and Susanoo gives him the speed to tag him. After that is over, the real Naruto gets taken care of by Susanoo.

1-

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will take a chunk out of legged Susano no matter where it hits

2- Susano's legs atleast gets caught I'm the blast and since we both agree that 2-3 FRS would destroy Susano, Susano's legs gets or mid section gets blown off.

3. Swat what clones? The one in the back that launched the FRS at the Naruto with MBD fighting Sasuke? Lol not happening.

4- Amataratsu is the fastest attack Sasuke has and Naruto dodges it with shunshin just like A did. Unless you think Amataratsu got faster somehow?

CQC is basically a death sentence for Naruto. Mini Bijuu Dama can't damage an Armored Susanoo, let alone a full bodied one, and Sasuke can easily tag the clone trying to hit him with Rasen Shuriken.

No. CQC is a disadvantage for Sasuke. He don't possess 360 degrees vision, he easily gets tagged by one of the 4 clones by a variety of Rasengan all of which would blow a hole in Susano or if it hits Sasuke directly, kill him.

He does.

Quick succession? Targets? Lol. There's only one target, and it's the COFRS. He's already followed Juubito, so following something that only moves as fast as a Susanoo Arrow isn't going to be hard.

"Besides, Amaterasu can be used so quickly that he can handle it and still have enough time to take care of the rest."

The rest? What were you referring to the 3 FRS or the 3 clones? Either one he would have to use Amataratsu in quick succession to hit either of them.

Lol, addressed.




Smh.



Yes

.

I guess we're gunna have to agree to disagree on this PS thing because neither one is convincing the other any time soon.

Wrong. Sasuke armoring Naruto=/=Naruto giving Sasuke power. Sasuke being in Naruto's Avatar=/=Sasuke getting a power boost from Naruto. If you think he's being buffed, you better prove it and show me where he got his chakra.

The Susanoo that covered the Kyuubi is PS

.

It's simple scaling really, Naruto gave Sasuke the Kuubi cloak and his Susano essentially grew legs, that's something we both agree on. Wouldn't it make more sense to conclude that Sasuke's Susano would power up even more if it's given an even bigger boost?

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. Also Naruto is mixing his chakra with Susano because the only way that Susano can break TSB is if it's infused with senjutsu, meaning that Naruto was feeding his chakra into Susano much like Jugo was. Bigger boost = better Susano. The bost he got from Hagoromo also

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and so did the

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chakra. You simply can't deny all these facts.

Yes, I notice a pattern. People who claim that he didn't use PS before getting Hagoromo's power make the same flawed arguments

.

Cool.





Ok.






Your point?

None of these show him moving faster than a JJ tho.



Lol, this guy.




Ok.




I thought it was an important part of the argument.

Already addressed the speed thing.

 

[KidGamer65]

No your not getting what in saying, how would Sasuke know to jump that high? The explosion

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once would be massive no?

Yes, it'd be 4 times the size, but that doesn't automatically mean it'll be 4x the height. Height is the key factor here.

-Madara jumps far above that via Susanoo.

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He was previously in the forest, then he jumped to that ledge.

-Ay and KCM Naruto jump far above that height.

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And neither have jumping power equivalent to a Complete Susanoo.

-Hashirama

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of a

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, which would be far larger than 4 FRS. Susanoo easily accomplishes the same thing.

The only one between them that knows roughly how large the blast radius would be is Naruto.

Naruto saw him use FRS during the war. Not to mention Sasuke doesn't need to know how large it is. All he needs to do is jump away. His jumping power with Susanoo is good enough that he'll completely evade the blast regardless of intel, unless he decides not to jump at full power.

Yes Sasuke may jump up but no way is he just jumping that high just because. The highest I remember Sasuke jump in legged Susano is when he 1st used legged Susano and cut shinju root, I could be wrong if so feel free to provide the scans.

1. He is.

2. That example only destroys your argument since that height>>>>Height of the explosion of 4 Rasen Shuriken.

1-

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will take a chunk out of legged Susano no matter where it hits

With what feats again? Lol. It takes something on the level of Danzo and Baku's Fuuton to simply open a hole in an MS V3 Susanoo, let alone an EMS V3 Susanoo, which has a complete body and is larger than the regular V3. The best feats MBD has is destroying a bunch of rock, and destroying Naruto's clone.

2- Susano's legs atleast gets caught I'm the blast and since we both agree that 2-3 FRS would destroy Susano, Susano's legs gets or mid section gets blown off.

It's not going to get hit.

3. Swat what clones? The one in the back that launched the FRS at the Naruto with MBD fighting Sasuke? Lol not happening.

Because you say so? Lol. You fail to realize the obvious fact that a distraction is garbage if the person doing the distracting is too weak.

4- Amataratsu is the fastest attack Sasuke has and Naruto dodges it with shunshin just like A did. Unless you think Amataratsu got faster somehow?

Never mentioned Amaterasu.

No. CQC is a disadvantage for Sasuke. He don't possess 360 degrees vision, he easily gets tagged by one of the 4 clones by a variety of Rasengan all of which would blow a hole in Susano or if it hits Sasuke directly, kill him.

You don't need 360 degree vision to fight enemies coming from multiple angles. Been done so many times in this manga that I can't even begin to count. Sasuke doesn't easily get tagged by anything. I've already explained.

-4 clones, 3 FRS and 1 COFRS strategy is an epic fail, because he can evade the 3 FRS and use Amaterasu on the COFRS.

-2 clones, MBD and FRS strategy is another epic fail. You say that the MBD wielding clone is to distract Sasuke so FRS can land, but that doesn't take into account the fact that MBD can't destroy or even dent a V3 Susanoo. Destroying a clone isn't a feat. Sasuke would ignore that clone and then counter FRS and take out the clone wielding it. You haven't even given a feat for MBD that'd let it wreck a V2 Susanoo let alone a V3 Susanoo, let alone a legged V4 Susanoo.

Inb4 it evades.

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"Besides, Amaterasu can be used so quickly that he can handle it and still have enough time to take care of the rest."

The rest? What were you referring to the 3 FRS or the 3 clones? Either one he would have to use Amataratsu in quick succession to hit either of them.

3 FRS. Who said he'd use Amaterasu? All he needs to do is use the Enton Blade to swat them as they approach. If they are thrown at the same time, he simply spins in a 360 degree circle and hits them all.

I guess we're gunna have to agree to disagree on this PS thing because neither one is convincing the other any time soon.

Lol, absolutely not. You don't agree to disagree on fact. I cannot stress that enough. This ends with you not replying back, or conceding.

It's simple scaling really, Naruto gave Sasuke the Kuubi cloak and his Susano essentially grew legs, that's something we both agree on. Wouldn't it make more sense to conclude that Sasuke's Susano would power up even more if it's given an even bigger boost?

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.

Naruto never gave Sasuke chakra when he used Perfect Susanoo. Lol. That's what you aren't understanding.

Also Naruto is mixing his chakra with Susano because the only way that Susano can break TSB is if it's infused with senjutsu, meaning that Naruto was feeding his chakra into Susano much like Jugo was. Bigger boost = better Susano. The bost he got from Hagoromo also

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and so did the

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chakra. You simply can't deny all these facts.

This part of your post makes no sense.

1. Sasuke used PS on his own, with his own chakra. Naruto powering up the Susanoo doesn't change the fact that Sasuke used it. Naruto powering up the Susanoo is only going to power it up, it's not going to make some completely new Susanoo.

2. The only way to prove that Sasuke didn't use PS on his own is to prove that he himself was boosted when it was used, which he wasn't. You've basically shown me that:

Sasuke uses PS--->Merges with Naruto's Avatar---->PS gets a Senjutsu Boost.

Meaning he can use PS. Lol. Your Hagoromo and Bijuu examples are completely irrelevant for the sole fact that they boosted his existing PS. They didn't give him the ability to use PS. I'm not sure you even realize what you're arguing against anymore.


What's pretty sad is that you outright ignored panels that prove Sasuke has PS. You talk about me not being able to deny the facts, but you ignore them because they prove you wrong. Lol. Sasuke can use PS:

Yes. He did. Anyone who can read the Manga knows that he did.

1. Madara had PS w/ EMS.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tsunade is amazed that Hashirama fought this thing. Onoki asks why Madara held back. (held PS back) Madara says that adults don't beat up kids w/ their full power, confirming that he had PS back then. Confirming that he used it on Hashirama.

2. Madara

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-Same Mountain Cutting abilities.

Spoiler

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-Same Swords, shoulder guards, tengu nose, and diamond as the regular PS.

Spoiler

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Now we have Sasuke's PS on Kurama.

Spoiler

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Too similar to PS for anyone to logically say that it's not PS, but some other version of Susanoo that looks nothing like what's in the pic.

3. Sasuke states he's doing what Madara did in the past.

Spoiler

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-Hashirama's reaction confirms that he is.

Spoiler

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Here it is once more. Don't ignore fact.

 

[Netflix and Chill]

Yes, it'd be 4 times the size, but that doesn't automatically mean it'll be 4x the height. Height is the key factor here.

-Madara jumps far above that via Susanoo.

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He was previously in the forest, then he jumped to that ledge.

-Ay and KCM Naruto jump far above that height.

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And neither have jumping power equivalent to a Complete Susanoo.

-Hashirama

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of a

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, which would be far larger than 4 FRS. Susanoo easily accomplishes the same thing.

I concede to this also, I knew fully well that Sasuke could jump over the explosion, geez... can't get nothing past you huh?

Naruto saw him use FRS during the war. Not to mention Sasuke doesn't need to know how large it is. All he needs to do is jump away. His jumping power with Susanoo is good enough that he'll completely evade the blast regardless of intel, unless he decides not to jump at full power.

Yea, I knew this as well, it's kinda common sense that if he knows 3 FRS coming him at he would know to jump higher than normal. It was a lazy argument after all.

1. He is.

2. That example only destroys your argument since that height>>>>Height of the explosion of 4 Rasen Shuriken

.

Your right.

With what feats again? Lol. It takes something on the level of Danzo and Baku's Fuuton to simply open a hole in an MS V3 Susanoo, let alone an EMS V3 Susanoo, which has a complete body and is larger than the regular V3. The best feats MBD has is destroying a bunch of rock, and destroying Naruto's clone.

MBD is feat less, knew that when I posted it, even the scan I provided showed BM Naruto not even KCM lol. I will say this though, Naruto's MBD IMHO would do more damage than Danzo and Baku's futon combo. Simply because it's power is so concentrated and in one spot as well. No real proof to back this up just a hunch.

It's not going to get hit.


Because you say so? Lol. You fail to realize the obvious fact that a distraction is garbage if the person doing the distracting is too weak.

In the SM Naruto vs pain fight Naruto was weaker than pain by a good margin yet still his distractions worked like a charm. I could say the same for a lot of his fights. Naruto is known for his trickery and clone feints. While I do concede on the KCM > EMS thing, saying that KCM Naruto is too is too week to even be a distraction to Sasuke is just false.

Never mentioned Amaterasu.

Yes you did "Besides, Amaterasu can be used so quickly that he can handle it and still have enough time to take care of the rest."

You don't need 360 degree vision to fight enemies coming from multiple angles. Been done so many times in this manga that I can't even begin to count. Sasuke doesn't easily get tagged by anything. I've already explained.

-4 clones, 3 FRS and 1 COFRS strategy is an epic fail, because he can evade the 3 FRS and use Amaterasu on the COFRS.

-2 clones, MBD and FRS strategy is another epic fail. You say that the MBD wielding clone is to distract Sasuke so FRS can land, but that doesn't take into account the fact that MBD can't destroy or even dent a V3 Susanoo. Destroying a clone isn't a feat. Sasuke would ignore that clone and then counter FRS and take out the clone wielding it. You haven't even given a feat for MBD that'd let it wreck a V2 Susanoo let alone a V3 Susanoo, let alone a legged V4 Susanoo.

Noging much to be said here except that the whole thing about Sasuke just ignoring a clone engaging him with a black orb in his hand that Sasuke knows nothing about or how powerful it is. Yea that's false. He has no clue what how powerful MBD is yet he just ignores it? That doesn't even sound like Sasuke, more like EDO Madara.

Inb4 it evades.

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No argument here.

3 FRS. Who said he'd use Amaterasu? All he needs to do is use the Enton Blade to swat them as they approach. If they are thrown at the same time, he simply spins in a 360 degree circle and hits them all.

You did as I showed above.

Lol, absolutely not. You don't agree to disagree on fact. I cannot stress that enough. This ends with you not replying back, or conceding.




Naruto never gave Sasuke chakra when he used Perfect Susanoo. Lol. That's what you aren't understanding.



This part of your post makes no sense.

1. Sasuke used PS on his own, with his own chakra. Naruto powering up the Susanoo doesn't change the fact that Sasuke used it. Naruto powering up the Susanoo is only going to power it up, it's not going to make some completely new Susanoo.

2. The only way to prove that Sasuke didn't use PS on his own is to prove that he himself was boosted when it was used, which he wasn't. You've basically shown me that:

Sasuke uses PS--->Merges with Naruto's Avatar---->PS gets a Senjutsu Boost.

Meaning he can use PS. Lol. Your Hagoromo and Bijuu examples are completely irrelevant for the sole fact that they boosted his existing PS. They didn't give him the ability to use PS. I'm not sure you even realize what you're arguing against anymore.


What's pretty sad is that you outright ignored panels that prove Sasuke has PS. You talk about me not being able to deny the facts, but you ignore them because they prove you wrong. Lol. Sasuke can use PS:

Yes. He did. Anyone who can read the Manga knows that he did.

1. Madara had PS w/ EMS.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tsunade is amazed that Hashirama fought this thing. Onoki asks why Madara held back. (held PS back) Madara says that adults don't beat up kids w/ their full power, confirming that he had PS back then. Confirming that he used it on Hashirama.

2. Madara

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-Same Mountain Cutting abilities.

Spoiler

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-Same Swords, shoulder guards, tengu nose, and diamond as the regular PS.

Spoiler

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Now we have Sasuke's PS on Kurama.

Spoiler

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Too similar to PS for anyone to logically say that it's not PS, but some other version of Susanoo that looks nothing like what's in the pic.

3. Sasuke states he's doing what Madara did in the past.

Spoiler

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-Hashirama's reaction confirms that he is.

Spoiler

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Here it is once more. Don't ignore fact.

No. If Sasuke had pulled out flying PS with Juugo supplying it with his senjutsu and Naruto went BSM against Juubito, that would have been a better plan, in many ways.

Like I mentioned in another thread, Sasuke with Naruto's cloak =

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Sasuke linked directly to Naruto's chakra =

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Sasuke after receiving

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Sasuke after receiving a boost from the

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Simple scaling.

Like I said we are both set on our views on PS, I have my proof and so did you. I understand why you think that Sasuke has PS and if you can't clearly see why I think he don't even after what I showed above then your just being hard headed and one track minded.

Anyways I wanted to see how far I could go with the KCM > EMS Sasuke debate I even restricted him even further to 4 clones. It was a up hill battle to begin with but it thought it'd b fun, and it was. At least you brought an actual debate to the table unlike the other guys I wrecked before starting our debate.

 

[KidGamer65]

I concede to this also, I knew fully well that Sasuke could jump over the explosion, geez... can't get nothing past you huh?

Nope...but I commend the effort. Lol

MBD is feat less, knew that when I posted it, even the scan I provided showed BM Naruto not even KCM lol. I will say this though, Naruto's MBD IMHO would do more damage than Danzo and Baku's futon combo. Simply because it's power is so concentrated and in one spot as well. No real proof to back this up just a hunch.

I highly doubt it. MBD isn't really concentrated as it's basically a smaller version of Bijuu Dama, which isn't concentrated, certainly not more concentrated than a Fuuton like Danzo's.

In the SM Naruto vs pain fight Naruto was weaker than pain by a good margin yet still his distractions worked like a charm. I could say the same for a lot of his fights. Naruto is known for his trickery and clone feints. While I do concede on the KCM > EMS thing, saying that KCM Naruto is too is too week to even be a distraction to Sasuke is just false.

That's because Naruto was strong enough. He doesn't need to be weak, he just needs to be strong enough. And he used trickery. Your premise is basically a single clone running at him with MBD, and another clone running at him with FRS. Since he can easily tank one, it's a no brainer which one he'd ignore and which one he'd deal with.

KCM Naruto can distract Sasuke, but not like this.

Yes you did "Besides, Amaterasu can be used so quickly that he can handle it and still have enough time to take care of the rest."

Yeah, I know. I never mentioned Amaterasu vs. the clones, only Amaterasu vs. the COFRS.

Noging much to be said here except that the whole thing about Sasuke just ignoring a clone engaging him with a black orb in his hand that Sasuke knows nothing about or how powerful it is. Yea that's false. He has no clue what how powerful MBD is yet he just ignores it? That doesn't even sound like Sasuke, more like EDO Madara.

Whether or not he knows how powerful it is or not doesn't matter, cause he knows how powerful FRS is, and he knows that he shouldn't take it without guarding himself, so he'll defeat that clone and then tank MBD. Then there's the fact that a normal sized FRS, explosion and all, looks way more threatening than a golf ball sized Bijuu Dama.

No. If Sasuke had pulled out flying PS with Juugo supplying it with his senjutsu and Naruto went BSM against Juubito, that would have been a better plan, in many ways.

Like I've said multiple times. That isn't proof that he can't use it. Either he waited or he unlocked it on the spot. That simple.

Like I mentioned in another thread, Sasuke with Naruto's cloak =

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Sasuke got Naruto's cloak and used an enhanced Legged Susanoo, yes.

Sasuke linked directly to Naruto's chakra =

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I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat it, but Sasuke wasn't linked to Naruto's chakra. His Susanoo was.

Sasuke after receiving

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Sasuke after receiving a boost from the

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Simple scaling.

The rest are irrelevant.

Like I said we are both set on our views on PS, I have my proof and so did you.

What you have isn't really proof though. Your only arguments are:

-Sasuke didn't use it before.
-Sasuke was linked to Naruto's chakra.

Problems with Argument 1: Sasuke not going full power from the get go doesn't mean that he can't use his full power. Such a case has been shown in literally every battle in Naruto. They gradually ascend to their full power. Then there's the fact that he could've gotten it on the spot. Either way, too many explanations as to why he didn't start off with PS combined with factual manga panels that prove he armored Kurama w/ PS render such a weak argument invalid. Ignoring those panels isn't going to magically make your argument any less wrong than it is.

Problems with Argument 2: It's fanfiction. Sasuke himself never touched Naruto's chakra after chapter 650. Only his Susanoo did. That renders any assumptions of him only being able to use PS w/ Naruto's chakra invalid.

Yes. He did. Anyone who can read the Manga knows that he did.

1. Madara had PS w/ EMS.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Tsunade is amazed that Hashirama fought this thing. Onoki asks why Madara held back. (held PS back) Madara says that adults don't beat up kids w/ their full power, confirming that he had PS back then. Confirming that he used it on Hashirama.

2. Madara

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-Same Mountain Cutting abilities.

Spoiler

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-Same Swords, shoulder guards, tengu nose, and diamond as the regular PS.

Spoiler

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Now we have Sasuke's PS on Kurama.

Spoiler

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Too similar to PS for anyone to logically say that it's not PS, but some other version of Susanoo that looks nothing like what's in the pic.

3. Sasuke states he's doing what Madara did in the past.

Spoiler

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-Hashirama's reaction confirms that he is.

Spoiler

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Sasuke has PS and it's a Manga Fact.

Come on now. These are basic panels, stop ignoring them.

I understand why you think that Sasuke has PS and if you can't clearly see why I think he don't even after what I showed above then your just being hard headed and one track minded.

Wrong. The only one here who's being one track minded and hardheaded is you and it's getting pretty pathetic at this point. You've literally ignored the comparisons in my scans twice, addressing them with nothing but an "I understand why you think he has PS", as if you've forgotten that we're debating here. You are supposed to counter. You aren't countering. You are only posting your own opinion, which is wrong and easily refutable.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Where did this dumb logic that EMS = Iso Susano'O and Rinnegan = PS come from?​

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[Bogard]

Where did this dumb logic that EMS = Iso Susano'O and Rinnegan = PS come from?​

​

This logic should have died when Kakashi showed the ability to use Perfect Susanoo with just MS. MS, EMS or Rinnegan doesn't matter when it comes down to Susanoo

 

[KidGamer65]

Where did this dumb logic that EMS = Iso Susano'O and Rinnegan = PS come from?​

​

The first bit has been around ever since DB IV's entry for Iso Susanoo and PS came out....Rinnegan=PS has been around for years now. Lol...all because Edo Madara used it with the Rinnegan active.

 

[Omar19992010]

Ps or not kcm loses. He is not handling a jumping soosano that can slash him down, enton that can counter his frs etc you people should stop overating him

You do realize the only reason Sasuke's Legged Susano'o was as powerful as it was because he had a Chakra cloak from Naruto and Jugo was powering it up with the Curse Mark. On it's own it's nowhere near as strong as when he was fighting Juubito.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

This logic should have died when Kakashi showed the ability to use Perfect Susanoo with just MS. MS, EMS or Rinnegan doesn't matter when it comes down to Susanoo

True, I still think that the only thing that changes is that the EMS is what allows PS (Rikudo's Chakra just creates a supped up version). Though its still plausible that the MS could theoretically produce a PS, someone without Hagromo's chakra more than likely just doesn't have the chakra or the eyes can't withstand the strain.

Though Obito hyped the EMS to produce a new Jutsu, so the only thing I can think of is PS.​

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The first bit has been around ever since DB IV's entry for Iso Susanoo and PS came out....Rinnegan=PS has been around for years now. Lol...all because Edo Madara used it with the Rinnegan active.

I really hadn't noticed it till this thread.

Back when the manga was still on Madara vs Gokage I was still on MF, and no one really ever thought that. I think I saw maybe one person say something like that, but they attributed it to Hashirama's cells.​

​

 

[Bogard]

True, I still think that the only thing that changes is that the EMS is what allows PS (Rikudo's Chakra just creates a supped up version). Though its still plausible that the MS could theoretically produce a PS, someone without Hagromo's chakra more than likely just doesn't have the chakra or the eyes can't withstand the strain.

Though Obito hyped the EMS to produce a new Jutsu, so the only thing I can think of is PS.​

​

I believe it's Itachi who hyped it this way through his fictional story(so could have been wrong). Sasuke had difficulties to create just the ribcage Susanoo at first despite his MS having the potential to produce the complete form of upper half of the Susanoo structure, even saying at the time it must have been hard on Itachi's body, so i always assumed the Susanoo production was heavily dependent on the stamina of the user and since Itachi's stamina was considerably low even by the Uchiha standards, he couldn't evolve it to the Perfect form. Madara's chakra has always been hyped to be particularly high, even by Uchiha standards, and was the reincarnation of Indra(whose chakra could travel through decades), which could explain how he could produce it without too much efforts in the end

 

[KidGamer65]

Back when the manga was still on Madara vs Gokage I was still on MF, and no one really ever thought that. I think I saw maybe one person say something like that, but they attributed it to Hashirama's cells.​

​

Man...back when that fight came out, here on NB, people were spamming threads about how you need Rinnegan to use PS and all that BS. Took about a year for everyone to realize that Rinnegan=PS made no sense, and that him using it with Rinnegan active isn't proof of anything.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Man...back when that fight came out, here on NB, people were spamming threads about how you need Rinnegan to use PS and all that BS. Took about a year for everyone to realize that Rinnegan=PS made no sense, and that him using it with Rinnegan active isn't proof of anything.

That was some shit ago though ._. I remember I started during MS Sasuke vs Bee. I can still chart out how Top Tier has evolved through the years Lol

Back then PS was basically GG everything on MF, people were calling it absolutely invincible other than the Sage/Juubi. Madara had Rinnegan paths hype back then too, and there wasn't any decrease in power for Edo's. Madara wank was unstoppable back then Lol​

​

 

[KidGamer65]

That was some shit ago though ._. I remember I started during MS Sasuke vs Bee. I can still chart out how Top Tier has evolved through the years Lol

Back then PS was basically GG everything on MF, people were calling it absolutely invincible other than the Sage/Juubi. Madara had Rinnegan paths hype back then too, and there wasn't any decrease in power for Edo's. Madara wank was unstoppable back then Lol​

​

Right. around 300 chapters ago Killer B was one of the, if not the strongest character in the Manga....a little over 200 chapters later, basically 4 years, Madara is introduced, then shit just went crazy after that. Went from BM Naruto, Edo Madara and Rinnegan Obito w/ Paths being the top level of the manga to people like RSM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke and JJ Madara in less than 100 chapters. Lol

Lol, don't even get me started. People here were saying that this dude was equal to Rikudo Sennin back when he first debuted let alone used PS, and that was even when Hagoromo's hype had a much greater effect on the readers than it does now. This forum was drowning in the wank.

 

[King Of Pop]

You do realize the only reason Sasuke's Legged Susano'o was as powerful as it was because he had a Chakra cloak from Naruto and Jugo was powering it up with the Curse Mark. On it's own it's nowhere near as strong as when he was fighting Juubito.

and your point is? he is not fighting juubito or anyone in his lv or slightly under., this is kcm naruto who is tiers below juubito so his soosano does not need to be as powerful as when he clashed with juubito to be able to beat kcm naruto. invalid post.

 

[Sageflash]

BM Naruto is definitely stronger.

 

[Netflix and Chill]

Nope...but I commend the effort. Lol

I highly doubt it. MBD isn't really concentrated as it's basically a smaller version of Bijuu Dama, which isn't concentrated, certainly not more concentrated than a Fuuton like Danzo's.

Compared to the size of Susano if MBD gets smashed directly into it it will be a concentrated blast in that spot. This is all moot regardless though so whateves.

That's because Naruto was strong enough. He doesn't need to be weak, he just needs to be strong enough. And he used trickery. Your premise is basically a single clone running at him with MBD, and another clone running at him with FRS. Since he can easily tank one, it's a no brainer which one he'd ignore and which one he'd deal with.

KCM Naruto can distract Sasuke, but not like this.

No. What I said was that as soon as he makes it out the explosion he gets pushed by 2 clones one with MBD and the one who helped him make it sits back and launches FRS while the clone pushes Sasuke. This is all moot as well though, it's too tedious arguing for only 4 KCM clones ughh!

Yeah, I know. I never mentioned Amaterasu vs. the clones, only Amaterasu vs. the COFRS.

Oh I misunderstood.

Whether or not he knows how powerful it is or not doesn't matter, cause he knows how powerful FRS is, and he knows that he shouldn't take it without guarding himself, so he'll defeat that clone and then tank MBD. Then there's the fact that a normal sized FRS, explosion and all, looks way more threatening than a golf ball sized Bijuu Dama.

Valid.

Like I've said multiple times. That isn't proof that he can't use it. Either he waited or he unlocked it on the spot. That simple.


Sasuke got Naruto's cloak and used an enhanced Legged Susanoo, yes.


I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat it, but Sasuke wasn't linked to Naruto's chakra. His Susanoo was.

The rest are irrelevant.


What you have isn't really proof though. Your only arguments are:

-Sasuke didn't use it before.
-Sasuke was linked to Naruto's chakra.

Problems with Argument 1: Sasuke not going full power from the get go doesn't mean that he can't use his full power. Such a case has been shown in literally every battle in Naruto. They gradually ascend to their full power. Then there's the fact that he could've gotten it on the spot. Either way, too many explanations as to why he didn't start off with PS combined with factual manga panels that prove he armored Kurama w/ PS render such a weak argument invalid. Ignoring those panels isn't going to magically make your argument any less wrong than it is.

Problem with this is that it's all excuses

1- Why wouldn't he go full out against a Juubi jin? The moment Naruto realized he could use BSM he did, it would be stupid for Sasuke to not go all out against Juubito.

2- No. When he was shown to get his flying PS was after the Rikodou power up. If he unlocked it on the spot then he would have used it with Jugo supplying it with senjutsu just like he did with legged Susano. Sasuke in senjutsu enhanced PS and BSM Naruto would have won against Juubito just the same if not easier.

3- When Jugo was inside of Sasuke's Susano he supplied it with his senjutsu right? Covering Kurama in Susano is essentially the same as Jugo being in Susano right? Now the same way Jugo supplied his senjutsu to Susano is pretty much the same way Naruto did it right? However Naruto is different than Jugo in that he can use his chakra to boost anyone's chakra or jutsus, not only with his senjutsu, but with his chakra as well. He did this with Sasuke already and his Susano grew legs and that was just him giving Sasuke a chakra cloak. Now we can conclude that if Naruto can supply Susano with senjutsu his chakra is connected or interacting with Susano right? That being said, isn't it more than plausible that if Naruto can supply Susano with senjutsu he can and did supply Susano with his chakra buffing it

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4- how could you say that when Naruto gave Sasuke the kuubi cloak his Susano evolved and grew legs but then you turn around and say that when Sasuke received Rikudou's chakra, half to be exact, that it didn't make his Susano level up even more? So Naruto's chakra can make Sasuke's Susano level up but not Hagoromo lol ok. Then we see his Susano get another huge boost from more bijuu and turned into

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, the bijuu chakra didn't touch Sasuke but it interacted with Susano and leveled it up to what I just showed you. Alter I show you all this you have the nerve to act like your assertion is better than mine when all you did was show that the Susano that covered Kurama has some similarities to PS? Really? That's all? No get that shut outa here.

Problems with Argument 2: It's fanfiction. Sasuke himself never touched Naruto's chakra after chapter 650. Only his Susanoo did. That renders any assumptions of him only being able to use PS w/ Naruto's chakra invalid.

Addressed this above

Come on now. These are basic panels, stop ignoring them.

I could say the same to you.

Wrong. The only one here who's being one track minded and hardheaded is you and it's getting pretty pathetic at this point. You've literally ignored the comparisons in my scans twice, addressing them with nothing but an "I understand why you think he has PS", as if you've forgotten that we're debating here. You are supposed to counter. You aren't countering. You are only posting your own opinion, which is wrong and easily refutable.

Addressed this above.

 

[KidGamer65]

Problem with this is that it's all excuses

1- Why wouldn't he go full out against a Juubi jin? The moment Naruto realized he could use BSM he did, it would be stupid for Sasuke to not go all out against Juubito.

Lol. I suggest we stop making petty excuses. Sasuke not using it before isn't proof that he can't use it, when I have panels of him being able to use it. It's that simple. This whole portion of your argument is nothing but an opinion.

2- No. When he was shown to get his flying PS was after the Rikodou power up. If he unlocked it on the spot then he would have used it with Jugo supplying it with senjutsu just like he did with legged Susano. Sasuke in senjutsu enhanced PS and BSM Naruto would have won against Juubito just the same if not easier.

What the hell are you talking about? If he unlocked it on the spot, which would be when him and Naruto combined their Avatars, why would he go fight separately, on his own, when he can merge his power with Naruto.

3- When Jugo was inside of Sasuke's Susano he supplied it with his senjutsu right?

Yes.

Covering Kurama in Susano is essentially the same as Jugo being in Susano right?

Yes.

Now the same way Jugo supplied his senjutsu to Susano is pretty much the same way Naruto did it right?

Yes.

However Naruto is different than Jugo in that he can use his chakra to boost anyone's chakra or jutsus, not only with his senjutsu, but with his chakra as well. He did this with Sasuke already and his Susano grew legs and that was just him giving Sasuke a chakra cloak.

He CAN. Keyword is can. When he does they get a cloak. Did you see Sasuke w/ a cloak? No. It was destroyed when Juubito dropped his ass on the ground. Lol.

Now we can conclude that if Naruto can supply Susano with senjutsu his chakra is connected or interacting with Susano right?

Yes. It only gets a Senjutsu boost though, cause Naruto's chakra cloak is what boosts the person. Not making contact with his Avatar. Sasuke had no cloak, so his Susanoo wouldn't be boosted. I can't see why it is so hard for you to comprehend simple panels.

That being said, isn't it more than plausible that if Naruto can supply Susano with senjutsu he can and did supply Susano with his chakra buffing it

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And at the end of the argument, we come to the conclusion that you fail. Hard. Even if I assume for a second that being in contact with the Avatar=Susanoo being boosted by Naruto's chakra and his Senjutsu. Susanoo getting boosted doesn't mean that Sasuke didn't use PS on his own. All that means is that what we saw was an enhanced PS.

1. Sasuke uses PS.

2. Sasuke armors Naruto's Avatar with it.

3. Sasuke's PS gets a Senjutsu boost.

Lol. Those panels are literally as simple as that.

4- how could you say that when Naruto gave Sasuke the kuubi cloak his Susano evolved and grew legs but then you turn around and say that when Sasuke received Rikudou's chakra, half to be exact, that it didn't make his Susano level up even more?

Never said that Hagoromo's chakra never boosted his Susanoo. I suggest we read before we reply. It saves me the trouble of correcting you.

Then we see his Susano get another huge boost from more bijuu and turned into

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, the bijuu chakra didn't touch Sasuke but it interacted with Susano and leveled it up to what I just showed you

.
Lol, this is so pathetic. PS getting a boost resulted in a boosted PS. Meaning Sasuke's PS getting a Senjutsu boost from Naruto results in an enhanced PS. Is that proof that Sasuke got a Susanoo version he couldn't use before?

No. I don't know if we have begun to troll or if you really are that bad at comprehending what you read. Lol, and to think I expected this discussion to be somewhat fruitful.

Alter I show you all this you have the nerve to act like your assertion is better than mine when all you did was show that the Susano that covered Kurama has some similarities to PS? Really? That's all? No get that shut outa here.

Similarities? I showed you traits that they share down to the T, and all you can do is throw weak examples in my face. It's ironic that you were criticizing people arguing with you before, but now that it's come time to face the scans, all I see are weak assertions, and blatant disregard of manga panels. Learn how to debate. You counter your opposition's post. You don't make up shit excuses and ignore the panels altogether. That's dishonest debating and I can only suggest that you cut it out or stop wasting my time.


What's funny is that you can't even tell me what Susanoo was on Kurama, yet I've proved what Susanoo was on Kurama. Though keep ignoring the argument cause it proves you wrong. The only one who looks bad here is you.