Nagato vs EMS Sasuke and Edo Itachi

[Tsukukami]

I took out the parts I agree with

And? How do you know it doesn't need to be completely obliterated in order to stop? How do you know that merely piercing it will destroy it? The tbb obliterated it, that still doesn't mean it was overkill.

It stopped in the first battle without it being destroyed. Overkill means more forced was used then was needed

I know that, but the other attacks don't come close to comparing in terms of DC so it doesn't matter. If we were to put in in % then the tbb would've done 90% at the very least, while the other attacks produced the rest. I don't even count the other attacks, if a tbb level attack isn't thrown at it then it isn't getting destroyed.

90% Lol thats pretty generous bijuu mode rasen shuriken should at least put it at 80%. I agree yasaka isnt a destructive move

The CBT is in the air, nagato summons his animals between itachi/sasuke & the core. That way if they try to attack it then they hit summons instead. It's to block the LoS b/w the brothers & the core, as if the rocks aren't already doing that anyways. The summons getting caught in the core is irrelevant anyways, he can sacrifice his summons to trap the brothers & win the match.

So Sasuke and Itachi sit there and let that happen. His summon are summoned from him so he would have to guide them all to where the duo is.

Also ama won't be enough for CBT, itachi used his magatamas, not ama.

I meant for the animals not the CBT

Nagato is a sensor, he'll always have an idea of their position because of that. Then he uses shared vision via summons to keep track them. He's not going to take his eyes off of them like when kabuto did. Kabuto wasn't even paying attention to itachi but that's not going to be the case here. Plus nagato will have more summons out meaning more eyes to track his blindspots.

Alright but the summons are easily dealt with

BZ has been wrong, he's not the most knowledgeable otherwise he wouldn't be referring to the "legend" of the weapon. He's also never seen ama so that proves he doesn't have knowledge on every single thing in the manga. & Yes the DB does disagree w/ him, it says that souls are the only things that can get sealed if pierced & the manga supports this.

I agree he doesn't know everything. Yes the souls of the people that get sealed.It never uses the word only in the DB

Going by this logic hiruzen is the strongest hokage, please don't use hype w/o feats. He didn't prove anything to be true & totsuka has only sealed people who have souls. Unless you can give me evidence of the contrary then you're wrong.

DB all mostly hype. However when the DB and the manga agree you can take it as fact.

Also wrong, the manga is more vague, referring to a "legend" & saying that it can seal "anything" are both more vague than specifically stating what it can seal & showing it to us through the manga. I'm honestly not going to continue this nonsense if you won't see to reason. Why waste my time on someone who follows the same logic that makes hiruzen the strongest hokage?

Your just blatantly ignoring manga facts cause it fits your opinion. Its says anyone and everything it pierces for a reason. There is no reason to doubt this.

Not proof.

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Again not proof, show me other spiritual bodies piercing everything they come into contact w/. You're just straight up claiming fanfiction now. U_U

Do you not understand the concept of spiritual vs physical? lol check the pic up there^
Please don't cherry pick from the data book. Manga > DB

 

[Zexion~]

I took out the parts I agree with



It stopped in the first battle without it being destroyed. Overkill means more forced was used then was needed





90% Lol thats pretty generous bijuu mode rasen shuriken should at least put it at 80%. I agree yasaka isnt a destructive move




So Sasuke and Itachi sit there and let that happen. His summon are summoned from him so he would have to guide them all to where the duo is.



I meant for the animals not the CBT



Alright but the summons are easily dealt with





I agree he doesn't know everything. Yes the souls of the people that get sealed.It never uses the word only in the DB



DB all mostly hype. However when the DB and the manga agree you can take it as fact.






Your just blatantly ignoring manga facts cause it fits your opinion. Its says anyone and everything it pierces for a reason. There is no reason to doubt this.

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Do you not understand the concept of spiritual vs physical? lol check the pic up there^

When used in Susano'o though they take physical form with Itachi's chakra obviously...they're only ethereal when not being used hence how he can hide them in his chakra.

 

[Tsukukami]

When used in Susano'o though they take physical form with Itachi's chakra obviously...they're only ethereal when not being used hence how he can hide them in his chakra.

This is all based on assumptions it was never stated these weapons were chakra based they have the same properties stowed and used until said otherwise

 

[Zexion~]

This is all based on assumptions it was never stated these weapons were chakra based they have the same properties stowed and used until said otherwise

Lmfao they are spirit weapons so Itachi integrated them as part of his chakra...as they are indeed ethereal however when he constructs his chakra into a physical form for Susano'o they too are constructed hence how he's able to use them.

 

[Tsukukami]

Lmfao they are spirit weapons so Itachi integrated them as part of his chakra...as they are indeed ethereal however when he constructs his chakra into a physical form for Susano'o they too are constructed hence how he's able to use them.

Where is that stated the weapons are stored in the arms of the susanoo. The susanoo is chakra based the weapons aren't

 

[Zexion~]

Where is that stated the weapons are stored in the arms of the susanoo. The susanoo is chakra based the weapons aren't

They're not stored in the arms of Susano'o? They are stored within Itachi's own chakra, which is when they're in their ethereal state then when they need to be used they take form with the Susano'o chakra.

Just like chakra has to be given form in order to be utilized same with these weapons.

 

[Brünhild]

When used in Susano'o though they take physical form with Itachi's chakra obviously...they're only ethereal when not being used hence how he can hide them in his chakra.

You are creating theories. It's clearly said that Yata and Totsuka are spiritual weapons which have no physical form. They are not made of common chakra like Susanoo is. There is no proof that they are materialized while being used in Susanoo. It's even said that Yata, for example, can change its properties according to the attack defected.

Spoiler

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[Draphsin]

It stopped in the first battle without it being destroyed.

Because nagato was dying, I already went over this.

Overkill means more forced was used then was needed

I know what overkill means, so tell me how you know it was overkill when you don't even know how much force was needed to destroy it in the first place?

You still can't prove that it was overkill, so just drop this.

90% Lol thats pretty generous bijuu mode rasen shuriken should at least put it at 80%. I agree yasaka isnt a destructive move

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No, 90% is probably too low, it was probably more like 95% in all honesty. The magatamas are lucky to have contributed even 1% to that explosion.

So Sasuke and Itachi sit there and let that happen.

Where did I say that? Nagato is in the air, itachi & sasuke are below him, wherever they go he still has an areal view of them unless they completely leave the battlefield, & in that case his sensory abilities pick up on them.

His summon are summoned from him so he would have to guide them all to where the duo is.

Which is easy considering their size, number & the fact that they all share vision w/ nagato himself. He easily positions them in the appropriate areas.

I meant for the animals not the CBT

As he does that the core gets surrounded by rock & then it's GG. If they want any chance at destroying the core then it would need to be exposed.

Alright but the summons are easily dealt with

Not before the core gets covered in rock.

It never uses the word only in the DB

It doesn't have to use the word "only", it specifically mentioned souls. If it was like you & BZ say where "everything" gets sealed then the word "souls" wouldn't have been put in there. That's how I know it's only souls & as I've continuously said the manga supports this.

DB all mostly hype. However when the DB and the manga agree you can take it as fact.

@Bold: That's exactly what's going on here. The DB seals souls, the manga only showed totsuka seal souls, therefore I can take it as fact.

The manga never showed totsuka seal anything that didn't have a soul [the most obvious example being the atmosphere, another one being oro's hydra heads], & so BZ's words are irrelevant because he was contradicted.

Your just blatantly ignoring manga facts cause it fits your opinion.

Lol...I'm done here.

BZ says anyone and everything it pierces according to legend.

There, fixed it for you. The underlined is why taking it as fact is wrong.

There is no reason to doubt this.

I've given you plenty.

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So, more words that support your claim in absolutely no way? Show me where it says spiritual objects can pierce every entity in existence, otherwise that's simply a no limits fallacy.

Do you not understand the concept of spiritual vs physical? lol check the pic up there^

LOL I don't think you do. I'll ask again, where does it say that spiritual objects will always pierce physical ones? Show me the proof & stop claiming nonsense, I haven't seen anything from you that supports the claim you're trying to make.

 

[Tsukukami]

They're not stored in the arms of Susano'o? They are stored within Itachi's own chakra, which is when they're in their ethereal state then when they need to be used they take form with the Susano'o chakra.

Just like chakra has to be given form in order to be utilized same with these weapons.

Where does it state this?

 

[Zexion~]

You are creating theories. It's clearly said that Yata and Totsuka are spiritual weapons which have no physical form. They are not made of common chakra like Susanoo is. There is no proof that they are materialized while being used in Susanoo. It's even said that Yata, for example, can change its properties according to the attack defected.

Spoiler

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Well they barely have feats so theories are really all we can do. So then explain why they are only used with his Susano'o? Which is a jutsu that constructs solid chakra? Or evidence on where exactly he retains them when they are not being used? They've already sliced through the Hydra, which means it had to have been physical there. Again Itachi most likely gives them physical form when using his V2 Susano'o. Kind of the most plausible theory, also YM changing properties as in its physical shape .-.

Where does it state this?

Kind of logic since we don't ever see them until Susano'o is used.

 

[Tsukukami]

Because nagato was dying, I already went over this.

Nagato wasn't dying from htat he couldn't make it any bigger due to his exhausted chakra. RT is what killed him

I know what overkill means, so tell me how you know it was overkill when you don't even know how much force was needed to destroy it in the first place?You still can't prove that it was overkill, so just drop this.

Yes, but your not making any sense because your saying anything short of tbb won't destroy ct.
If we don't know the durability of ct and the 3 attacks happen to obliterate it. This must mean only attacks of that level can destroy it is what your saying right? Lol

Where did I say that? Nagato is in the air, itachi & sasuke are below him, wherever they go he still has an areal view of them unless they completely leave the battlefield, & in that case his sensory abilities pick up on them.Which is easy considering their size, number & the fact that they all share vision w/ nagato himself. He easily positions them in the appropriate areas.

This would all have to be prepared fast cause CT builds up mass relatively quickly and the summon are easily beaten.

As he does that the core gets surrounded by rock & then it's GG. If they want any chance at destroying the core then it would need to be exposed. Not before the core gets covered in rock.

Technically they could both shoot the core right when he uses it

It doesn't have to use the word "only", it specifically mentioned souls. If it was like you & BZ say where "everything" gets sealed then the word "souls" wouldn't have been put in there. That's how I know it's only souls & as I've continuously said the manga supports this.
@Bold: That's exactly what's going on here. The DB seals souls, the manga only showed totsuka seal souls, therefore I can take it as fact.
The manga never showed totsuka seal anything that didn't have a soul [the most obvious example being the atmosphere, another one being oro's hydra heads], & so BZ's words are irrelevant because he was contradicted.
Lol...I'm done here.
There, fixed it for you. The underlined is why taking it as fact is wrong.
I've given you plenty.
So, more words that support your claim in absolutely no way? Show me where it says spiritual objects can pierce every entity in existence, otherwise that's simply a no limits fallacy.
LOL I don't think you do. I'll ask again, where does it say that spiritual objects will always pierce physical ones? Show me the proof & stop claiming nonsense, I haven't seen anything from you that supports the claim you're trying to make.

We have already established it seals souls.
Spirit : the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. Your arguing a spirit blade would get stopped by a physical mass?The DB even says totsuka can cut down all enemies
Regarding the manga and the DB, the manga says it seals everything. However it was only needed to seal souls ( Oro/Nagato/Summons).
The DB states they seal souls because thats what they were used to do. Its was never disproven it could seal objects. Even the wiki says everything.

However you can believe what you like

Kind of logic since we don't ever see them until Susano'o is used.

Yes there stored in the susanoo

 

[Zexion~]

Nagato wasn't dying from htat he couldn't make it any bigger due to his exhausted chakra. RT is what killed him




Yes, but your not making any sense because your saying anything short of tbb won't destroy ct.
If we don't know the durability of ct and the 3 attacks happen to obliterate it. This must mean only attacks of that level can destroy it is what your saying right? Lol




This would all have to be prepared fast cause CT builds up mass relatively quickly and the summon are easily beaten.




Technically they could both shoot the core right when he uses it



We have already established it seals souls.
Spirit : the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. Your arguing a spirit blade would get stopped by a physical mass?
Regarding the manga and the DB, the manga says it seals everything. However it was only needed to seal souls ( Oro/Nagato/Summons).
The DB states they seal souls because thats what they were used to do. Its was never disproven it could seal objects. Even the wiki says everything

However you can believe what you like



Yes there stored in the susanoo

They are stored in the Susano'o .-. Are you serious? Lol

The susano'o is created with Itachi's chakra

 

[Draphsin]

Nagato wasn't dying from htat he couldn't make it any bigger due to his exhausted chakra. RT is what killed him.

Yes he was, he was too weak to maintain the jutsu, a healthy nagato isn't going to have such a problem.

Yes, but your not making any sense because your saying anything short of tbb won't destroy ct. If we don't know the durability of ct and the 3 attacks happen to obliterate it. This must mean only attacks of that level can destroy it is what your saying right? Lol

I'm saying if you want to claim that a weaker attack can destroy it then you'd have to prove it. Since there's no way to do that then we have to go off of what was shown & since the tbb was the dominating force behind the attack then that makes it the only attack that matters. Susanoo arrows destroying the core is speculation when we've only seen attacks that consisted of tbbs destroying it.

This would all have to be prepared fast cause CT builds up mass relatively quickly and the summon are easily beaten.

Not hard to do, the summons get teleported directly to nagato.

Technically they could both shoot the core right when he uses it

nagato can fly extremely high, he has more than enough time to summon one animal for one projectile & counter the other one via preta before they make it.

We have already established it seals souls.

Which is all it seals

Spirit : the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. Your arguing a spirit blade would get stopped by a physical mass?

Lol You're arguing that something without a physical form can even make contact w/ something physical. That's literally like saying ghosts can stab us w/ their hands.

Totsuka becomes physical in order to make contact w/ physical objects, otherwise it wouldn't be able to touch anything & would phase through it all like obito. These "spiritual weapons" exist in the physical world, so saying that they can penetrate any physical object just because they're "spiritual" is a bogus argument & again a no limits fallacy.

Regarding the manga and the DB, the manga says it seals everything.

BZ says it can seal anything, not the manga. Stop taking his word as "manga fact" when it's not.

However it was only needed to seal souls ( Oro/Nagato/Summons).

It has only ever sealed souls, if it can seal the core of CBT then it can seal the atmosphere, it can also seal the heads of oro's hydra, it failed to do both of those things. Totsuka has only ever sealed an entity if it pierced a soul first. There is nothing which says otherwise.

The DB states they seal souls because thats what they were used to do.

Speculation.

Its was never disproven it could seal objects

The atmosphere gets pierced every time itachi brings the sword out, that disproves it. The hydra heads didn't get sealed despite being pierced by the blade, again disproving it.

However you can believe what you like

I believe what the manga shows & tells us, not what someone who doesn't have full knowledge on a topic says to be the truth when referring to said topic.

 

[Tsukukami]

Not hard to do, the summons get teleported directly to nagato.
nagato can fly extremely high, he has more than enough time to summon one animal for one projectile & counter the other one via preta before they make it.

You trying to say he summons all of them in mid air before he uses ct? Wouldn't they fall besides the bird

Which is all it seals
Lol You're arguing that something without a physical form can even make contact w/ something physical. That's literally like saying ghosts can stab us w/ their hands.
Totsuka becomes physical in order to make contact w/ physical objects, otherwise it wouldn't be able to touch anything & would phase through it all like obito. These "spiritual weapons" exist in the physical world, so saying that they can penetrate any physical object just because they're "spiritual" is a bogus argument & again a no limits fallacy.
BZ says it can seal anything, not the manga. Stop taking his word as "manga fact" when it's not.
It has only ever sealed souls, if it can seal the core of CBT then it can seal the atmosphere, it can also seal the heads of oro's hydra, it failed to do both of those things. Totsuka has only ever sealed an entity if it pierced a soul first. There is nothing which says otherwise.
Speculation.
The atmosphere gets pierced every time itachi brings the sword out, that disproves it. The hydra heads didn't get sealed despite being pierced by the blade, again disproving it.
I believe what the manga shows & tells us, not what someone who doesn't have full knowledge on a topic says to be the truth when referring to said topic.

The blade is spirit based. The manga states they have no real physical form. Idk why your making the assumption they become physical. Just because they exist in the physical world doesn't make them physical.
There is no reason not to believe BZ and besides he wasn't disproven
He slashed the hydra heads not pierced. he later sealed the entire thing when he pierced oro
Its not speculation thats literally what it did. Lol
Itachi probably chooses what he seals seeing as the delay from when he sealed oro and nagato. He gave them time to talk. While with oro he was sealed instantly

They are stored in the Susano'o .-. Are you serious? Lol

The susano'o is created with Itachi's chakra

Yes the susanoo is chakra based, the weapons are stored in the susanoo
I don't see what our getting at

 

[Zexion~]

Yes the susanoo is chakra based, the weapons are stored in the susanoo
I don't see what our getting at

How can they be stored in something that's not created until Itachi decides to solidify chakra. You're acting like Susano'o is constantly active :|

 

[Tsukukami]

How can they be stored in something that's not created until Itachi decides to solidify chakra. You're acting like Susano'o is constantly active :|

No they are linked to his susanoo so the appear when it gets to a certain stage

 

[Draphsin]

You trying to say he summons all of them in mid air before he uses ct? Wouldn't they fall besides the bird

He summons his animals after CBT, he'll be far enough away to intercept the projectiles.

The blade is spirit based. The manga states they have no real physical form. Idk why your making the assumption they become physical.

It's not an assumption it's a fact, the physical world can't interact make contact w/ a spiritual object unless said spirit becomes physical.

Just because they exist in the physical world doesn't make them physical.

No, but making contact w/ physical objects does.

There is no reason not to believe BZ and besides he wasn't disproven

Yes he has, totsuka hasn't ever sealed physical objects w/o a soul. The DB specifies his statement which he bases off of what he heard from a legened, he has no firsthand experience & that makes his word nothing more than an opinion. He's not credible, how are you not getting this??

He slashed the hydra heads not pierced. he later sealed the entire thing when he pierced oro

You have to pierce something in order to slash it. The totsuka blade was inside the heads of the hydra before he cut them off, yet they didn't get sealed.

Its not speculation thats literally what it did. Lol

No, read the context of the argument. It's speculation to assume the DB says it seals souls because that's the only things it was shown to seal. You have no idea if the DB based it's claim off of that.

Itachi probably chooses what he seals seeing as the delay from when he sealed oro and nagato.

Lol More speculation? Not going to bother here, you should know why this is wrong.

He gave them time to talk. While with oro he was sealed instantly

This doesn't prove he can chose what to seal.

 

[Tsukukami]

It's not an assumption it's a fact, the physical world can't interact make contact w/ a spiritual object unless said spirit becomes physical.
No, but making contact w/ physical objects does.
Yes he has, totsuka hasn't ever sealed physical objects w/o a soul. The DB specifies his statement which he bases off of what he heard from a legened, he has no firsthand experience & that makes his word nothing more than an opinion. He's not credible, how are you not getting this??
You have to pierce something in order to slash it. The totsuka blade was inside the heads of the hydra before he cut them off, yet they didn't get sealed.
No, read the context of the argument. It's speculation to assume the DB says it seals souls because that's the only things it was shown to seal. You have no idea if the DB based it's claim off of that.
Lol More speculation? Not going to bother here, you should know why this is wrong.
This doesn't prove he can chose what to seal.

@bold where is that stated xD like phantom dragon do you also believe thats physical
Just because he hasn't sealed a physical object doesn't mean he can't. It was never disproven and since the manga hints at it I don't see why not.
@underline :| by pierce it means impale not slash.
Tell me why you think there was a delay


But back to the CT it can be escaped by reverse summoning

 

[Zexion~]

No they are linked to his susanoo so the appear when it gets to a certain stage

Lmfao linked how exactly? Its not like they're part of any S/T techniques nor do you summon them. Much more plausible to think when they're ethereal they remain in Itachi's chakra.

 

[Tsukukami]

Lmfao linked how exactly? Its not like they're part of any S/T techniques nor do you summon them. Much more plausible to think when they're ethereal they remain in Itachi's chakra.

Kishi didn't explain their origins all we know is they are linked to his susanoo. The rest is up to you to interpret