Killer Bee Takes the gauntlet

[Zexion~]

Depends. The tentacles aren't really that durable, but the main body is.

Ight Ight U_U

 

[Brother Numpsay]

It's irrelevant because Shunshin is one burst of speed. You don't go faster as you cross more distance. So either B didn't use Shunshin on Sasuke, or that cliff damaging Lariat is what blew his chest out.

Then I honestly can't conclude that this type of damage would break Domu

Ok then, I agree, somewhat. More so for Ay than Kakashi. We've seen that a good thrust is all the Raikiri/Chidori users need to deal the maximum damage, as seen with Sasuke vs. Ay.

I dont agree with it being its maximum potential tho.

Your example is irrelevant. We have panels of Kakashi attacking the conventional way, and failing to pierce, meaning Raikiri can't pierce the V2 cloak. Simple as that.

Ill drop this example.

Distance is always short when Raikiri or Chidori is used. Doesn't decrease it's effectiveness drastically since it's a piercing move. The only momentum needed to reach maximum power is a thrust. Sasuke was only 5 meters away from Ay, but his thrust was good enough to deal the maximum damage.

Well all my examples would be part 1 (which you can argue that it was needed and part 2 got stronger which is no longer needed), and Kakashi Lightening Chain at its maximum potential of penetration power (which you dont agree V2 arm manipulation is hard durable as the main body). Piercing moves still still needs momentum for better results though. Didnt 3rd Raikage stick his hand out for 1 Nukite, while dashing against Naruto?

Completely different from Ay, who uses blunt force to attack since he punches, thus the faster he goes, the harder his punch will be.

Well same logic when it comes to wielding a weapon. Running with a thrust would seep in more then just a thrust motion, wouldnt it?

 

[Beans2]

He's very good but if I'm confident? Nope...Though he's better me hands down. The only debater I can think of fearing is FT.

Kidgamer takes a dump on FT just saying

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kidgamer takes a dump on FT just saying

And Im 3 tiers below you in debating.

 

[Beans2]

And Im 3 tiers below you in debating.

Lol, I just realized that you're EjBlack.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lol, I just realized that you're EjBlack.

I have ascended:scorps:

 

[Haizaki]

He didn't tank it in the manga. He was knocked out of Bijuu Mode...

He wasn't knocked out of BM because of the BD considering he was still in it after the explosion

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Actually, Kurama when he disappeared said he had reached his limit ( Middle panel to Naruto)

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and B says he also reached his limit in the next page here

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Notice in the bottom panel of the scan, Obito says "The Hachibi and Kyuubi seem to have run out of chakra" implying that it wasn't the BD that knocked him off.

He reached his limit because he took a direct hit from his Bijuu Dama. That much is clear, and obvious.

Not with the Obito scan I showed...They ran out of Chakra and went to rest and accumulate as stated in the 2 scans I showed. A BD can't have them run out of chakra.

Pretty sure that's the smallest Bijuu Dama he has available to himself, and even if he has Samehada to heal his own injuries, Hachibi will have to gather more chakra before B re enters Bijuu Mode, thus Hashirama kills him in the blink of an eye. Hell, the time it'd take for Samehada to completely heal him to the point where he could re enter Bijuu Mode is long enough for Base Hashi to kill him.

No because it won't do that much of a damage for Samehada to heal..B won't be knocked off BM so there won't be any need for that.

Agreed. Not smart, but considering Hotei Hands that rival Full Kurama in size give him the opening he needs to bind B and land Mokuryu.

Point but Hotei can be countered with the BD even after restraining B. Especially when Samehada would able to absorb chakra from Hotei hands weakening it's binding on B since the chakra used to control it would be absorbed.

If WD comes out at that point, then it gets caught up in the explosion with Hotei.

And then Hashirama catches it, and tosses it right back at Killer B.

And B defends with his tails which blocked the Juubi's laser

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Considering the fact that the time Hashi would have to summon Hotei hands to catch the BD would give B enough time to cover himself with his tails since in that scan, he was capable of covering his entire body despite not doing so(Top right) before the laser got to him from such a close distance.

Bad scenario? He'll absorb it tossed at him.

He spanks even without Mokujin.

Nahh

More than one isn't going to make a difference. Naruto slapped away 5 Bijuu Dama at once. Mokuton Hands that can rival Full Kurama in size do the same.

Naruto slapping 5 BD is a different scenario

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This scan shows:

- 5 tailed beats aiming from different positions although at one position

- Middle 3rd panel shows the Damas were moving Horizontally.

-

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Naruto had to run across all to deflect them

That's much easier than CTBB which moves vertically toward the opponent so it's harder to actually catch it and toss it back when they move towards a certain direction.

-If they slap one, the one right behind it explodes right there. Naruto ran across them which is much different to this scenario.

Not to mention, B can just aim at the ground instead.

Then there's the fact that each individual Bijuu Dama is

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than the usual standard Bijuu Dama,

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, and then there's the fact that

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is naturally larger than Gyuki's due to the size difference between Gyuki and Full Kurama. Mokuton Hobi tanked Kurama's Bijuu Dama with very little damage. B's Continuous Bijuu Dama is blocked at the expense of the construct. The dust settles, and B gets bound by Hotei and Mokuryu, and all his chakra is sucked away.

Point with the BD comparisons and Hobi but B can easily fire off another powerful TBB even though the first one doesn't deal damage. B then fires off another one before anything settles given intel on Hobi's durability to tank a TBB.

As for the BD point I mentioned. Juubi is Mountain Level in size when it reaches it's V2 state. It's larger than BM Kurama and Gyuki by a good amount, but it's not Mountain Level, and each Continuous BD explosion was only a bit larger than the V1 Juubi. In reality, all you need to do is compare Full Kurama to the explosion of it's BD, and BM Kurama to the explosion of it's single BD, add in the fact that Full Kurama dwarfs Half Kurama and BM Kurama, and you come to the conclusion that individually, Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama is MUCH stronger than the continuous Bijuu Dama. Adding all 4 isn't going to vaporize Hobi and kill Hashirama at the same time. Though it'd probably destroy Hobi.

You mean B's BD? Because eventually more than 1 would destroy Hobi.

Then there's the point that Demonic brought up. With a Doton Wall and Jukai Kotan, Hashirama was about to redirect a Juubidama. Substitute the Doton Wall with Rashomon and Hashirama easily redirects Continuous Bijuu Dama, or any Bijuu Dama that B has to offer.

Not the wave explosion.

If B fires it off in the wave form, considering it has the smallest explosion of pretty much every single Bijuu Dama ever used. Mokuton Hobi would tank it with zero damage.

No because B first created the TBB in a ball shape before then firing

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..There's actually no reason to believe he can't do so with any other ball because it's bigger...From his explanation here

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he remembers when he used it in the wave form but only talks about letting it rip after the Manipulation and Chakra gathering. He should easily pull his strongest in a wave form unless there's a reason that suggests he can't.

He couldn't even handle 6 tails from Killer B let alone a full on Bijuu Dama.

Nope.

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------>

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Absorbed an entire V2 cloak which contains more than 6 for sure....B estimated it was 6 because he was thrown and flung right away the first time, but his statement was disproved after Samehada absorbed an entire V2 cloak during lariat and then in the Dome.

He can tank it. I honestly don't see how Killer B stands a chance here. Bijuu Dama has multiple, hard counters, and once he's been bitten by the Mokuryu, he's finished. He can't overpower Mokuton Hotei either.

Yeah but if it is used more than one powerful TBB, Hobi gets destroyed eventually.

Samehada makes Hotei less effective since it would absorb chakra from the construct which he in turn would give to B. The fact that he can blow up a TBB destroying the constructs while being healed after a makes it less ineffective.

Like you said, Hashi won't be resorting to things when it's becoming useless which means he'll require more of his power to take B down.

 

[KidGamer65]

He wasn't knocked out of BM because of the BD considering he was still in it after the explosion

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I'll agree.

Point but Hotei can be countered with the BD even after restraining B. Especially when Samehada would able to absorb chakra from Hotei hands weakening it's binding on B since the chakra used to control it would be absorbed.

He uses a Bijuu Dama, and then it gets caught. Not to mention if he's been squeezed and crushed by the hands, you can forgot about him being able to charge a Bijuu Dama for the same exact reason the Juubi can't charge it's Bijuu Dama while Myojinmon has it's head pinned.

If he tries to absorb the chakra, then Hashirama just puts more in there as he needs to have a link to control said objects to begin with. Not to mention it's ridiculously unrealistic and physically impossible to absorb chakra from multiple Full Kurama sized hands at once with nothing but Samehada.

If WD comes out at that point, then it gets caught up in the explosion with Hotei.

There won't be an explosion, cause any Bijuu Dama gets caught and redirected, then B is restrained and sucked dry by Mokuryu, or he finished off by Kakuan Nitten Suishu.

And B defends with his tails which blocked the Juubi's laser

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Considering the fact that the time Hashi would have to summon Hotei hands to catch the BD would give B enough time to cover himself with his tails since in that scan, he was capable of covering his entire body despite not doing so(Top right) before the laser got to him from such a close distance.

Come on now. Kakashi warped him away before impact, he obviously didn't take the laser unless you think Hachibi>Kurama in durability, which wouldn't make a shred of sense. The only one who was present when the laser made it's impact was

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as the scan shows.

It also doesn't help that B was shown with zero damage, so you'd basically be implying that Naruto lost 6 tails while B took zero damage.

Bad scenario? He'll absorb it tossed at him.

Uh...no. Not when he couldn't handle a measly 6 tails of chakra. There's absolutely no way he's absorbing a Bijuu Dama. He tries, and then it explodes and kills him.

Naruto slapping 5 BD is a different scenario

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This scan shows:

- 5 tailed beats aiming from different positions although at one position

- Middle 3rd panel shows the Damas were moving Horizontally.

-

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Naruto had to run across all to deflect them

That's much easier than CTBB which moves vertically toward the opponent so it's harder to actually catch it and toss it back when they move towards a certain direction.

-If they slap one, the one right behind it explodes right there. Naruto ran across them which is much different to this scenario.

Not really. If Hashirama slaps one away, then that leaves the other 3 coming towards him, and he can just keep spawning hands to slap one away as they come close and closer to his position. Or he can slap one, hit the one behind it and push 2 of them back at once.

Or worst case scenario, all he needs to do is redirect them like he was going to do with Juubidama via Rashomon and Jukai Kotan.

Not to mention, B can just aim at the ground instead.

Not gonna work.

1. If B is close to Hashirama, he can attempt this, but then he'd just end up nuking himself with 4 Bjiuu Dama, and he doesn't have the feats to take 4 and keep on fighting, not when one did that much damage to him to begin with, and what makes it worse is, Hashirama can hide behind Hobi and suffer no injuries, allowing him to one shot B w/ Mokuryu and Kakuan Nitten Suishu while he's recoiling from his BD.

2. If he's not close to Hashirama, then this won't work, cause there is no downward angle he could fire it at that'd cause it to hit the ground, explode where Hashirama is, and all in a fashion where Hashirama can't just catch the ball to begin with. Mokuton sprouting from below doesn't help your case either.

Point with the BD comparisons and Hobi but B can easily fire off another powerful TBB even though the first one doesn't deal damage. B then fires off another one before anything settles given intel on Hobi's durability to tank a TBB.

And then it's redirected or caught.

You mean B's BD? Because eventually more than 1 would destroy Hobi.

Uh-huh, but if he uses singular variants, they are caught and tossed back. If he uses Continuous, Hashirama can get them one by one by spawning Mokuton Hands from the ground as they approach, and if he uses the Wave, it's tanked with zero damage since he already tanked something much stronger with very little damage.

Not the wave explosion.

Which can be easily tanked by Mokuton Hobi.

No because B first created the TBB in a ball shape before then firing

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..There's actually no reason to believe he can't do so with any other ball because it's bigger...From his explanation here

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he remembers when he used it in the wave form but only talks about letting it rip after the Manipulation and Chakra gathering. He should easily pull his strongest in a wave form unless there's a reason that suggests he can't.

There is no "make a bigger ball". That ball that B made is the largest Bijuu Dama he's been shown to make on panel. The reason why it's weaker is because of the nature of the attack, not because of the size of the ball.

Nope.

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------>

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Absorbed an entire V2 cloak which contains more than 6 for sure....B estimated it was 6 because he was thrown and flung right away the first time, but his statement was disproved after Samehada absorbed an entire V2 cloak during lariat and then in the Dome.

Samehada being able to absorb B's whole cloak over a continuous period of time doesn't change the fact that Samehada can only absorb 6 tails worth of chakra at one time. That's the key phrase here. B tries to absorb with Samehada, fails to absorb all of it, and then get's nuked to hell just how Kisame tried to take a V2 Lariat, but ended up getting hit by the leftover.

Then there's the fact that Samehada's absorption amount is proportional to how much it loves the chakra. It has a craving for Hachibi's regular chakra, not the black white chakra used to form Bijuu Dama, nor Hashirama's chakra. So it wouldn't absorb the BD the same way it absorbed the cloak, nor would it absorb chakra from Hashirama's constructs as quickly.

Yeah but if it is used more than one powerful TBB, Hobi gets destroyed eventually.

Yeah, eventually. B doesn't have that long.

Samehada makes Hotei less effective since it would absorb chakra from the construct which he in turn would give to B. The fact that he can blow up a TBB destroying the constructs while being healed after a makes it less ineffective.

Read above, not to mention the idea of B being able to use Samehada in Bijuu Mode is nonsense, unless we are talking about a hypothetical fusion between BM B and Samehada, but fusing with humans isn't proof it can fuse with a Bijuu, or a Bijuu turned Jinchuuriki. Using chakra absorption against multple hands that dwarf you in size (Full Kurama's size compared to Half Kurama's size) that aren't even made of chakra to begin with isn't even a reliable strategy.

But either way, it won't be able to absorb all the chakra fast enough to prevent B from getting restrained long enough for Mokuryu to start absorbing his chakra, if he tries to use a Bijuu Dama, it gets redirected. If he uses a Bijuu Dama Wave while he's restrained, then at best he'll destroy the hands in front of him, not the hands restraining him from other angles, and even if by some miracle he did, the dust gives cover to an incoming Mokuryu, which then bites him and ends the match, cause once he's bitten, he's finished. The only reason BM Naruto escaped is because he can put down his Avatar just like that. B can't.

Like you said, Hashi won't be resorting to things when it's becoming useless which means he'll require more of his power to take B down.

Except they aren't nor will they become useless.


Then there's surprise attacks like

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, which canonically made B into a

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for Madara's Susanoo blade. Hashirama does the same exact thing, and then one shots with Kakuan Nitten Shuishu. B canonically couldn't evade this, no reason why he'd be able to do so here.

And that's not even things like Jukai Kotan, Kajukai Korin, and Hotei Hands. All of which spawn from the ground at any given point Hashirama chooses, and all of which are on a completely different scale to what already fodderized B in canon. B literally stands no chance here. None whatsoever.


A guy who was about to get one shotted by a Mokuton Branch and V3 Susanoo w/o a complete body isn't taking on Hashirama even if Mokujin is restricted.

 

[Izanamı.]

stops at Hashirama. he slaps Bee around with Hotei

 

[Bronze]

He clears all.

 

[Zexion~]

Kidgamer takes a dump on FT just saying

Bold words for someone who wasn't around when FT actually cared Lol

 

[Kakashistomps]

stops at 6

 

[Haizaki]

He uses a Bijuu Dama, and then it gets caught. Not to mention if he's been squeezed and crushed by the hands, you can forgot about him being able to charge a Bijuu Dama for the same exact reason the Juubi can't charge it's Bijuu Dama while Myojinmon has it's head pinned.

Crushed? Nope. Not to mention he can fire one off instantly as seen with CTBB which takes less than seconds so yes he'll pull it off before he gets squeezed or even touched. There's a time period in which Hashirama pulls out Hotei. He pushes his hands towards B's direction before they then come out to pin him. Madara could spin round and cut all despite them already coming out before they even touched him.

B on the other would instantly fire one so either way they get caught in it. If he's charging it while they hit him? This happens

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destroying them.

Myojinmon is a non factor for obvious reasons like transforming back to V2 to escape and transforming back.

If he tries to absorb the chakra, then Hashirama just puts more in there as he needs to have a link to control said objects to begin with. Not to mention it's ridiculously unrealistic and physically impossible to absorb chakra from multiple Full Kurama sized hands at once with nothing but Samehada.

Why? No reason to believe otherwise and I don't know why you're still saying at once when it's clear that once contact is made, they get absorbed as long as they're touching him. During the time period when contact is made, he'll absorb it. Unless there's any Manga evidence that says it's impossible. No there's none so I have no reason to believe one that's capable of containing Bijuu level chakra within itself would have a problem taking in more chakra from those hands. The V2 state is supposed to contain Hachibi's chakra in a humnaid form.

Initially you brought up 6 tails worth at once but that was debunked when he outright absorbed from V2-Base...By now you should easily tell that there's a difference between the Chakra in which it can absorb during a brief encounter(6 tails) and the chakra it can absorb constantly when continuous contact(V2-Base in the dome) is made like Hotei would be doing.


Not to mention, those multiple size don't contain chakra comparable to a Bijuu so what reason is there to support the fact that something that absorbs and passes it to the other user since it instantly converts Chakra to energy for B. Not to mention even if somehow he can't take all, he can take a high amount that would enable B break out of its loose...Hashirama would only add more chakra when he sees his technique isn't strong enough to out B down...But it would be to late as B would have broken free when he realizes.

Not that this matters with my previous point with TBB.

There won't be an explosion, cause any Bijuu Dama gets caught and redirected, then B is restrained and sucked dry by Mokuryu, or he finished off by Kakuan Nitten Suishu.

Wave disagrees and more of that would eventually get past Hobi destroying it. Not to mention hitting an area near him as well.

Come on now. Kakashi warped him away before impact, he obviously didn't take the laser unless you think Hachibi>Kurama in durability. The only one who was present when the laser made it's impact was

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.

Then what was the point of Hahibi covering his body with his tails? Your Naruto point doesn't stand when you think of the fact that he was shown after the laser had hit (with his tails not covering his body) not during the laser impact.

"Obviously"? Do you even have proof that Kakashi warped him before the impact? No except there was a smoke around which could have been the period in which Kakashi warped him. Kakashi was inside Kurama's avatar

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So I wonder how in the world he would have warped B when Kurama used his tails to completely cover his whole body

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with Kakashi inside protecting them? Only one logical answer.

Look at the red which should tell you something

Spoiler

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Like I said..It doesn't make sense when he covered his body with his tails in the first place. Kishi made the message clear.

Uh...no. Not when he couldn't handle a measly 6 tails of chakra.

I've already pointed out the difference...B being able to constantly absorb chakra that's in contact with him is different from the "at once" scenario you're talking about. Hot has its hands around B which leaves its chakras absorbed since it's making contact.

I already pointed out the V2 B getting his whole chakra absorbed in water when it made contact which is the same Hote is going to be doing.

Not really. If Hashirama slaps one away, then that leaves the other 3 coming towards him, and he can just keep spawning hands to slap one away as they come close and closer to his position. Or he can slap one, hit the one behind it and push 2 of them back at once.

Lol...this strategy is definitely not working because if he hits one and it hits another? What happens? The first one explodes since it was already hit which leads to the others exploding.

You basically mixed it up since you implied Hashi would hit the BD and it would explode when it hits the target Hashi sends it too. If it's going to explode on the target Hahsi sends it too, then it should logically explode when it hits a target behind it which is the BD.

They'll be behind each other so either way it won't work.

Or worst case scenario, all he needs to do is redirect them like he was going to do with Juubidama via Rashomon and Jukai Kotan.

Rashomon isn't going to redirect it for sure when it doesn't have a Susanoo blade added to it. He wasn't going to redirect the Juubidama with Rashomon

Not to mention...It's not redirecting a Bijuudama traveling towards ground level or even the Wave version.

Unless he's close to Hashirama, he'd just end up blowing himself up while Hashirama tanks it. While he's recoiling from his own attack, Hashirama catches him with Mokuryu and sucks his chakra dry.

Nope... He doesn't have to be close to aim something towards an area near Hashirama. He's not getting caught up in it.

And then it's redirected or caught.

Pretty sure I addressed this but it would be blocked with his tails or absorbed.

Which can be easily tanked.

But does damage overtime.

There is no "make a bigger ball". That ball that B made is the largest Bijuu Dama he's been shown to make on panel. The reason why it's weaker is because of the nature of the attack, not because of the size of the ball.

I only said bigger because I thought you were implying that it was a small version that could only do the wave. What is the bold based on? What supports that? No reason to believe it would be weaker because it's in the wave form.

The explosion

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couldn't be expanded because of the water beneath as it interferes in the bottom panel

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but yet the explosion was massive and not to far off

More of that and Hobi is breached eventually.

Samehada being able to absorb B's whole cloak over a continuous period of time doesn't change the fact that Samehada can only absorb 6 tails worth of chakra at one time. That's the key phrase here. B tries to absorb with Samehada, fails to absorb all of it, and then get's nuked to hell just how Kisame tried to take a V2 Lariat, but ended up getting hit by the leftover.

Like I already said...There's a difference between constant contact being made. Because he was sent flying isn't changing the fact that he was sent away before he could eventually absorb everything. Where this is proved is when he outright takes all of it when constant contact was made. Look at the scan I showed of him absorbing all of the V2 cloak continuously and long as continuous contact was made which eventually forced B backed to Base.

He can absorb 6 at once but that's not helping when these techniques would be in continuous contact enabling Samehada to absorb the chakras in them.

Then there's the fact Samehada's absorption amount is proportional to how much it loves the chakra. It has a craving for Hachibi's regular chakra, not the black white chakra used to form Bijuu Dama, nor Hashirama's chakra. So it wouldn't absorb the BD the same way it absorbed the cloak, nor would it absorb chakra from Hashirama's constructs as quickly.

Samehada only uses the Chakras to heal the opponents afterwards so if it loves Hachibi's chakra, it should want to save it....It had more than affinity for Hachibi's chakra and was still giving it more stamina via Kisame's chakra which prompted Kisame to use that term. Which means it also loves passing Chakra unto Hachibi giving it back stamina like it did previously. It doesn't like fire but was forced to absorb it for B.

The bold, when was a speed up process involved or mentioned? Liking it not equal to how fast it takes it in.

Yeah, eventually. B doesn't have that long.

Ok.

Read above, not to mention the idea of B being able to use Samehada in Bijuu Mode is nonsense, unless we are talking about a hypothetical fusion between BM B and Samehada, but fusing with humans isn't proof it can fuse with a Bijuu, or a Bijuu turned Jinchuuriki. Using chakra absorption against multple hands that dwarf you in size that aren't even made of chakra to begin with isn't even a reliable strategy.

Lol says it's nonsense but doesn't give a reason to why it is. Anyways @ bold, You'd have to explain why

- Samehada like he does to Kisame and even B can pass chakra to Hachibi himself:

Spoiler

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Same thing he does with certain humans so logically, he shouldn't be able to do that with Bijuus as well.

Spoiler

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Kisame already had chakra comparable to that of a Jin...Samehada was already attracted to him because of this which should be the reason why a human like him can merge with it. Given the fact that it showed those characteristics like passing chakra to Hachibi. He should be able to pass its abilities to him by merging. There wasn't any restriction in the entire Manga or Db to why Samehada can merge with Kisame or particular person. Which means there aren't any restrictions to who Samehada can merge with giving it's love for the Chakra and attachment to the person. Clear fact should be with how it passes Chakra to Hachibi to the extent where B can then regains access to V1 for a lariat. His stamina also increased and Kisame was prompted to say this after what he saw with the Hachibi("More than"):

Spoiler

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No reason why he can't but even if...He can use a BD to eventually get past those constructs and he definitely gets healed afterwards. Not like they'll be touching him before he releases it.

He can also cut his tentacles and throw it out of the range of Hotei and it won't be a problem if he's caught. He already cut it himself while Madara himself was capturing the Bijuus..Like I said, there's a time period.

But either way, it won't be able to absorb all the chakra fast enough to prevent B from getting restrained long enough for Mokuryu to start absorbing his chakra, if he tries to use a Bijuu Dama, it gets redirected. If he uses a Bijuu Dama Wave while he's restrained, then at best he'll destroy the hands in front of him, not the hands restraining him from other angles, and even if by some miracle he did, the dust gives cover to an incoming Mokuryu, which then bites him and ends the match.

I already explained most of this

- Not before the Tbb comes out and we know what happens when interrupted like I showed.

- WD isn't stopping him when it results in another explosion.

 

[KidGamer65]

Crushed? Nope. Not to mention he can fire one off instantly as seen with CTBB which takes less than seconds so yes he'll pull it off before he gets squeezed or even touched. There's a time period in which Hashirama pulls out Hotei. He pushes his hands towards B's direction before they then come out to pin him. Madara could spin round and cut all despite them already coming out before they even touched him.

B on the other would instantly fire one so either way they get caught in it. If he's charging it while they hit him? This happens

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destroying them.

Myojinmon is a non factor for obvious reasons like transforming back to V2 to escape and transforming back.

They charge at him from all directions, and then he fires his Bijuu Dama, and only destroys the ones in front of him, and he gets bound and drained of his chakra. There's literally no reason firing a Bijuu Dama forward, would cause it to explode around him and all the ends. It'll go forward and destroy the hands in front of him, if he uses the wave that is. If he uses Continuous Bijuu Dama, they get caught/redirected. Same goes with the regular Bijuu Dama.

If he fires a regular Bijuu Dama downward, then it'll create a 360 degree explosion and free him, but while he's being healed and recoiling from his damage. This happens, Mokuryu binds him, or he uses Kajukai Korin to bind him and then he drains all of B's chakra. Considering he canonically failed to react to a surprise Mokuton branch from Edo Madara, same thing happens here.

Surprise attacks like

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, which canonically made B into a

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for Madara's Susanoo blade. Hashirama does the same exact thing, and then one shots with Kakuan Nitten Shuishu. B canonically couldn't evade this, no reason why he'd be able to do so here.

And that's not even things like Jukai Kotan,

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, and Hotei Hands. All of which spawn from the ground at any given point Hashirama chooses, and all of which are on a completely different scale to what already fodderized B in canon. If B couldn't break free from a simple branch, then god knows what he's going to do against these. This absorption argument you keep bringing up is useless since all he needs to do is add more chakra as it's being absorbed, and if Mokuryu gets him, absorption is even more useless since Preta Path was trumped by Mokuryu when it comes to chakra absorption rate. Same happens to the inferior Samehada.

So B being able to fire his Bijuu Dama doesn't matter. If he does the regular way, it's caught. If he fires it towards the ground, he only hurts him self and gives Hashirama the opening he needs to bind him. If he uses Continuous, it explodes in front of him and he fails.

This is Base Hashirama. No Myojinmon, at least not one strong enough to bind a Full Bijuu. Not to mention going back to V2 is pretty much a death sentence for B since he'd get ensnared by Mokuryu in a heartbeat.

-If B absorbs chakra from the hands as they bind him, Hashirama just adds more. Not to mention it doesn't really matter, since he only needs to be bound a second or two for Mokuryu to come and restrain him, and Samehada can't absorb all their chakra in a second or two.

-Or Hashirama just binds him with Kajukai Korin instead of using Hotei or a generic branch, achieves the same thing Edo Madara did and then one shots with Mokuryu or Kakuan Nitten Suishu.

A guy who was about to get one shotted by a Mokuton Branch and V3 Susanoo w/o a complete body isn't taking on Hashirama even if Mokujin is restricted.

Why? No reason to believe otherwise and I don't know why you're still saying at once when it's clear that once contact is made, they get absorbed as long as they're touching him. During the time period when contact is made, he'll absorb it. Unless there's any Manga evidence that says it's impossible. No there's none so I have no reason to believe one that's capable of containing Bijuu level chakra within itself would have a problem taking in more chakra from those hands. The V2 state is supposed to contain Hachibi's chakra in a humnaid form.

I suggest we read before we reply. I didn't say it's impossible. I said it's unrealistic and unreliable as a counter. Though I don't know why you are going on about this continuous absorption as if it contradicts or debunks the fact he can only take 6 AT ONCE.

V2 state contains some of Hachibi's chakra in humanoid form, obviously not all of it.

Initially you brought up 6 tails worth at once but that was debunked when he outright absorbed from V2-Base...By now you should easily tell that there's a difference between the Chakra in which it can absorb during a brief encounter(6 tails) and the chakra it can absorb constantly when continuous contact(V2-Base in the dome) is made like Hotei would be doing.

That is exactly what I said below, and Lol debunked? If you realize the fact that they are two completely different scenarios, you wouldn't be saying that manga facts were debunked.

Not to mention, those multiple size don't contain chakra comparable to a Bijuu so what reason is there to support the fact that something that absorbs and passes it to the other user since it instantly converts Chakra to energy for B. Not to mention even if somehow he can't take all, he can take a high amount that would enable B break out of its loose...Hashirama would only add more chakra when he sees his technique isn't strong enough to out B down...But it would be to late as B would have broken free when he realizes.

Wow. 3 paragraphs dedicated to countering something I didn't say.

Lol, not only does Hashirama have a link with his technique, so he'd know how much chakra is inside, he can sense chakra anyway, so he'll know his chakra being absorbed the moment it starts being absorbed. So this Samehada absorption counter isn't going to work for Hotei.

Wave disagrees and more of that would eventually get past Hobi destroying it. Not to mention hitting an area near him as well.

The wave is literally the same issue. It'll explode in front of him. Not behind him, or to his sides. So that doesn't even begin to counter Hotei. You keep saying "more of that will destroy Hobi" but:

1. If you aren't doing damage with one thing, using it multiple times isn't going to matter unless you use them together. That's common sense. Am I going to break a steel wall by punching it over and over again? Nope.

2. B won't be around long enough to do this, especially since he can't destroy all the hands since he can't attack from every angle without using a Bijuu Dama on himself, and that leads to him taking massive damage, and getting bound while he recoils from the attack.

Then what was the point of Hahibi covering his body with his tails? Your Naruto point doesn't stand when you think of the fact that he was shown after the laser had hit (with his tails not covering his body) not during the laser impact.

Not relevant. All I need to do is prove that he didn't take it. I hope you're joking with the bold.

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is the impact. It spreads out at that singular point because it's only hitting one target, and that target is Naruto.

"Obviously"? Do you even have proof that Kakashi warped him before the impact? No except there was a smoke around which could have been the period in which Kakashi warped him. Kakashi was inside Kurama's avatar

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So I wonder how in the world he would have warped B when Kurama used his tails to completely cover his whole body

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with Kakashi inside protecting them? Only one logical answer.

That Avatar is see through. Not to mention your point doesn't make sense if we take the bold into account, cause Naruto's tails didn't come unfolded until after he had taken the laser, so how would he have warped B when his tails weren't unfolded off panel? Lol. Doesn't make sense..though thanks for hurting your own point.

Look at the red which should tell you something

Spoiler

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Like I said..It doesn't make sense when he covered his body with his tails in the first place. Kishi made the message clear.

Juubi's laser isn't even a cutting attack. No reason why it'd make such a clean cut on B's tentacle.

Oh christ..now we are implying that B tanked the Juubi's Laser? With zero damage? Even though the superior Bijuu in literally every physical aspect came out with no damage? I really hope that we aren't serious with this point. Kishi made the message clear when Naruto was the only one who came out with damage. Kishi made the message clear with the bottom two panels.

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I wonder what was going on these panels? Oh wait. Kakashi warped him. Hence the lines around B. Hence Naruto being the only one who actually got hit.

I've already pointed out the difference...B being able to constantly absorb chakra that's in contact with him is different from the "at once" scenario you're talking about. Hot has its hands around B which leaves its chakras absorbed since it's making contact.

There's literally no difference. He had the luxury of being able to absorb all B's chakra over a continuous period of time because B is just standing there, doing nothing. Bijuu Dama is an attack that explodes. If he fails to take it in, the leftover explodes and kills him just like when V2 Lariat did damage to him when he couldn't abo

I already pointed out the V2 B getting his whole chakra absorbed in water when it made contact which is the same Hote is going to be doing.

Already addressed.

Lol...this strategy is definitely not working because if he hits one and it hits another? What happens? The first one explodes since it was already hit which leads to the others exploding.

This only shows that you misunderstood the post. I never said he'd slap one away back towards the one behind it. He can slap it in any other direction.

You basically mixed it up since you implied Hashi would hit the BD and it would explode when it hits the target Hashi sends it too. If it's going to explode on the target Hahsi sends it too, then it should logically explode when it hits a target behind it which is the BD.

They'll be behind each other so either way it won't work.

Read above.

Rashomon isn't going to redirect it for sure when it doesn't have a Susanoo blade added to it. He wasn't going to redirect the Juubidama with Rashomon

He was going to use a Doton Wall, and Jukai Kotan to redirect it. I've already brought up this point, not sure why you are isolating one aspect of it and then trying to counter. Rashomon takes the place of the Doton Wall, and Jukai Kotan lets him redirect it. Literally no reason he can't do it, and I'm definitely not seeing one from you.

Not to mention...It's not redirecting a Bijuudama traveling towards ground level or even the Wave version.

Not only does Mokuton spawn from the ground, meaning he can catch it no matter what angle this guy sends it in, the wave version gets tanked with zero damage.

Nope... He doesn't have to be close to aim something towards an area near Hashirama. He's not getting caught up in it.

If he wants to fire it at an angle where Hashirama can't catch it, then yes, he needs to be close.

But does damage overtime.

Do my punches do damage to a steel wall over time? No. Same principle here. He already tanked something leagues above B's Bijuu Dama with mere cracks in his defense. Something far weaker does no damage. Unless he spams Continuous Bijuu Dama he might as well forget about taking out Hobi.

I only said bigger because I thought you were implying that it was a small version that could only do the wave. What is the bold based on? What supports that? No reason to believe it would be weaker because it's in the wave form.

Based on the explosions. That's it. That explosion is not as large as any of the Bijuu Dama explosions from Bijuu 2-7 nor is it as large as what B can produce with the regular ball.

The explosion

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couldn't be expanded because of the water beneath as it interferes in the bottom panel

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but yet the explosion was massive and not to far off

It's a wave, and it's above water, so there's literally no reason that it wouldn't be as large as it possibly could be. If part of the explosion were supposed to go under the water, it'd go under the water. And yes, it was massive, but not as large as

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. So my point still stands.

More of that and Hobi is breached eventually.

Once again. Punching a steel wall over and over and over again means nothing unless you are strong enough to do damage...B is not strong enough to do damage, so it doesn't matter. He needs Continuous Bijuu Dama. Nothing less is cutting it here.

Like I already said...There's a difference between constant contact being made. Because he was sent flying isn't changing the fact that he was sent away before he could eventually absorb everything.

Yes, there's a difference. But does it matter? No, because this is literally going to be the same scenario as Lariat vs. Samehada. Samehada's properties were no different back then yet it still got overwhelmed and damaged by the attack. The same exact thing happens here and there's literally no reason for me to believe otherwise.

Where this is proved is when he outright takes all of it when constant contact was made.

What in the world do you mean by "Where is this proved"? I hope you aren't talking about him being able to take 6 tails at once, cause that's already a manga fact. Being able to take more is because he has continuous contact. Does that change the fact that he can only take 6 at one time?

Lol, no.

Look at the scan I showed of him absorbing all of the V2 cloak continuously and long as continuous contact was made which eventually forced B backed to Base.

He can absorb 6 at once but that's not helping when these techniques would be in continuous contact enabling Samehada to absorb the chakras in them.

Um, this is the same scenario as Lariat. He has a heavy ball coming at him at a high speed (Just like B coming at him at a high speed) and it contains more chakra than he can absorb. Samehada's properties didn't magically change when he fused with Samehada, so what's gonna happen? The same exact thing that happened when Samehada met w/ V2 Lariat. Bijuu Dama hits him, he can't take it and then it pushes him back/blows up, and he takes heavy damage.

Samehada only uses the Chakras to heal the opponents afterwards so if it loves Hachibi's chakra, it should want to save it....It had more than affinity for Hachibi's chakra and was still giving it more stamina via Kisame's chakra which prompted Kisame to use that term. Which means it also loves passing Chakra unto Hachibi giving it back stamina like it did previously. It doesn't like fire but was forced to absorb it for B.

I know this....but how is it relevant to this part of my post?

The bold, when was a speed up process involved or mentioned? Liking it not equal to how fast it takes it in.

Ignore that part. Can't find where it was stated, if it was stated.

Lol says it's nonsense but doesn't give a reason to why it is. Anyways @ bold, You'd have to explain why

- Samehada like he does to Kisame and even B can pass chakra to Hachibi himself:

Spoiler

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Same thing he does with certain humans so logically, he shouldn't be able to do that with Bijuus as well.

Spoiler

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Kisame already had chakra comparable to that of a Jin...Samehada was already attracted to him because of this which should be the reason why a human like him can merge with it. Given the fact that it showed those characteristics like passing chakra to Hachibi. He should be able to pass its abilities to him by merging. There wasn't any restriction in the entire Manga or Db to why Samehada can merge with Kisame or particular person. Which means there aren't any restrictions to who Samehada can merge with giving it's love for the Chakra and attachment to the person. Clear fact should be with how it passes Chakra to Hachibi to the extent where B can then regains access to V1 for a lariat. His stamina also increased and Kisame was prompted to say this after what he saw with the Hachibi("More than"):

Spoiler

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No reason why he can't but even if...He can use a BD to eventually get past those constructs and he definitely gets healed afterwards. Not like they'll be touching him before he releases it.

Whether or not he can doesn't matter to me, cause he still loses either way.

He can also cut his tentacles and throw it out of the range of Hotei and it won't be a problem if he's caught. He already cut it himself while Madara himself was capturing the Bijuus..Like I said, there's a time period.

And then Hashirama makes a separate branch to bind his tentacle and the replacement that Killer B left behind, so this strategy is useless anyway.

 

[Strict]

He clears all.

Incarnation of a fanboy.

Madara negged the Hachibi with a single Mokuton technique [

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]. Bijuu powers are useless against Hashirama. He negs.

 

[KidGamer65]

Then I honestly can't conclude that this type of damage would break Domu




I dont agree with it being its maximum potential tho.

No reason why Sasuke wouldn't attack Ay in a fashion that'd let him do the maximum damage.

Well all my examples would be part 1 (which you can argue that it was needed and part 2 got stronger which is no longer needed), and Kakashi Lightening Chain at its maximum potential of penetration power (which you dont agree V2 arm manipulation is hard durable as the main body). Piercing moves still still needs momentum for better results though. Didnt 3rd Raikage stick his hand out for 1 Nukite, while dashing against Naruto?

Yes he did. Momentum helps, but he doesn't need to dash at top speed to achieve the maximum result. Part 2's usage shows that, unless you want to argue that Raikiri/Chidori has never been sued at full speed.

Well same logic when it comes to wielding a weapon. Running with a thrust would seep in more then just a thrust motion, wouldnt it?

Depends. Probably but to an extent where the power is drastically reduced? No.

 

[Haizaki]

Before I even fully reply later on..Stop with this B/laser aspect. Show the scan fully were everyone had lines around them

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you only brought out Kakashi and Hachibi to prove your point Lol. Not to mention you casually ignored the fact that Kakashi during the point of the laser was completely covered by the tails while inside the Kurama's Avatar in the middle panel

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You say it's not a cutting technique despite me even showing the smoke coming from the cut tentacle shown...Yeah? So we're going to say Kurama with it's own tails cut in the middle panel after the laser didn't take it as well?

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You're only assuming here.

I'd address the rest today Lol. Oh and read properly as well because I said "Where this is proved" and not "Where is this proved"

 

[KidGamer65]

Before I even fully reply later on..Stop with this B/laser aspect. Show the scan fully were everyone had lines around them

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you only brought out Kakashi and Hachibi to prove your point Lol. Not to mention you casually ignored the fact that Kakashi during the point of the laser was completely covered by the tails while inside the Kurama's Avatar in the middle panel

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So we are really going to keep implying that B took the Juubi's laser with no damage, while the superior Bijuu had heavy damage to his tails? Yet B's tails, whose tails get chopped by Shuriken and Chidori, are going to take it? With zero damage at that? Are we even serious with this nonsense?

I only brought out those two scans because they are the only relevant scans. A scan showing B about to be warped, and a scan CLEARLY showing Kakashi using Kamui, hence the fact his other eye his closed. Anyone who has a decent eye will tell you that these lines:

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And these lines:

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Are completely different when it comes to design. Completely different. Those lines show that B is the one getting warped.

And you casually ignore the facts that:

1. Kurama Avatar is see through.

2. If Kakashi couldn't see through the Avatar, he wouldn't have warped shit whether it was after the laser hit or before the laser hit, because Naruto's tails were covering his body from that point till AFTER the laser had already hit and resolved. Already addressed in my post, though I see you ignored that part. Lol.

3. Naruto is more durable than B yet took damage, so B would get done worse if he were to get hit. Not come out with no scratch like you are implying here.

You say it's not a cutting technique despite me even showing the smoke coming from the cut tentacle shown...Yeah? So we're going to say Kurama with it's own tails cut in the middle panel after the laser didn't take it as well?

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You're only assuming here.

Lol, are we serious with this?

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I shouldn't have to tell you that this isn't a clean cut. I shouldn't have to tell you that the above, and the below are nothing alike.

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I shouldn't have to tell you that this isn't a cutting attack.

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Kurama's tails were blown off. Not cut off.

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is a cutting attack. Even if I agree that the laser cut off B's tentacle, it was most likely right

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, meaning no, he didn't take the blast. He had the laser take off one of his tentacles before the rest of his body was warped.

Even then that doesn't make sense since the laser would've done to the tentacle what it did to Naruto, it would've vaporized what it touched, not cut it. It's physically impossible for a laser bigger than his body to make a clean cut on his tentacle.

All I can do is advise you to drop this point, cause the further it goes, the more nonsensical you'll start to sound. Cause you are pretty much telling me that B is so much more durable than Naruto, that Gyuki is so much more durable than Kurama that it can take the Juubi's laser with no damage while Kurama loses 6 of it's tails, despite feats, hype, and any other type of assessment tool saying that this conclusion is BS.

I'd address the rest today Lol. Oh and read properly as well because I said "Where this is proved" and not "Where is this proved"

Doesn't change the content of my reply, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[Bronze]

Incarnation of a fanboy.

Madara negged the Hachibi with a single Mokuton technique [

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]. Bijuu powers are useless against Hashirama. He negs.

[

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] .

 

[KidGamer65]

If anything, Kakashi is to blame for his leg, given this panel.

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Meaning it was Kamui that took off his leg, not the Juubi laser. Definitely makes more sense than the alternative.