Killer Bee Takes the gauntlet

[KidGamer65]

I can't agree with that assumption, when the whole solution could of been warping the whole tree if he needed to touch the bomb to warp one bomb. We witness Tobirama warp multiple people such as 2 Buijuu's +Cho Rasegan. I can't possibly interpret it that Tobirama was implying an unfinished attack can be warped away by it "being stationary".

Minato already

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Doesn't change the fact that Tobirama stated that he can only get one bomb, and he doesn't have Space Time Barrier, so he's obviously referring to making contact with said bomb, nor can he touch all 4 at once, so him being able to warp multiple things is irrelevant.

Plus you dont think Tobirama can replicate what Minato did

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Considering the force behind a Bijuu Dama is leagues above the force of Naruto and Sasuke slamming an Enton RS into Minato's body, obviously not. W/o any Space Time Barrier, all he can do is warp by contact, and if he tries to touch a Bijuu Dama flying his way, he dies a terrible death.

Im aware of that. Kakashi is clearly at Guys level of speed, bar certain amount of gate. One can even argue Kakashi being around (Hebi/MS) Sasuke's speed and reaction category.

And V1 B surpasses both let alone V2 B.

You took my point out of context. The "I can do it" and I can't do it" were talking about absorbing Bees chakra and stopping from doing further damage like last time[

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>

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].

Kisame was ready for the incoming of the attack, for sure.

Doesn't prove that he reacted. Bracing himself for an attack he knew was coming=/=Reacting to said attack.

Not really, you just proved pending on distance and momentum picked determines the power of the attack. So actually if you want to argue of Domu being broken you need evidence of the distance it will be to determine how much impact to make to break it.

Distance is irrelevant when talking about Shunshin, which is how B would build momentum to land his attack. Shunshin is one big burst. Speed doesn't increase the farther the distance you go.

Choji attack was also superior to the attack power V1 Lariat did to Sasuke.

To a full power V1 Lariat? Nope. To a V2 Lariat? Nope.

No I stated im addressing your reasoning between your argument with Zex.

Ok.

@Bold So then better momentum doesn't = better attack?

Range and momentum have little to do with each other, because at the end of the day, Raikiri is being used at the same range no matter what. Not even sure what your point is here.

So then better momentum doesn't actually change the attack power?

It does. Not sure where you got me believing that it doesn't from.

So close range Rairuki is no different then momentum Raikiri..

It obviously is.

And look at Kakashi last panel: Do you seriously think he can penetrate like that, or have the same focus damage as a thrust?

Lets put Kakashi in the same position as Sasuke vs Ay. Can Kakashi breach Rikrki as much as Sasuke's Chodiri?

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He clearly thrusted in the first panel.

... So he switch to less effective power of Rikiri then a more effective power of Rikri.. therefore a less effective power of rikiri is more effective..?

No, it's less effective. That's it. The only reason it did more damage is because it hit a part that isn't as durable as the main body.

Only if you base of close range Chidori being no different then more momentum Chidori.

If only Kakashi didn't have momentum behind his thrust when he hit the V2 Jins.


But he did.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Minato already

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Doesn't change the fact that Tobirama stated that he can only get one bomb, and he doesn't have Space Time Barrier, so he's obviously referring to making contact with said bomb, nor can he touch all 4 at once, so him being able to warp multiple things is irrelevant.

Considering the force behind a Bijuu Dama is leagues above the force of Naruto and Sasuke slamming an Enton RS into Minato's body, obviously not. W/o any Space Time Barrier, all he can do is warp by contact, and if he tries to touch a Bijuu Dama flying his way, he dies a terrible death.

I dont think that necessary with clones doing the contact.

Doesn't prove that he reacted. Bracing himself for an attack he knew was coming=/=Reacting to said attack.

Ok well I dont see the problem of Kakuzu bracing the attack with Domu activated.

Distance is irrelevant when talking about Shunshin, which is how B would build momentum to land his attack. Shunshin is one big burst. Speed doesn't increase the farther the distance you go.

Ok..? Im arguing about the requirements to break Domu according to your premise, not how fast Bee needs to be.

Range and momentum have little to do with each other, because at the end of the day, Raikiri is being used at the same range no matter what. Not even sure what your point is here.

They have everything to do with each other, as I pointed out Ay stating needed to gain more speed to breach Madara. Obviously the same lightening punch isnt going to do the same on Madara with more speed and momentum.. Which you are suggesting

It does. Not sure where you got me believing that it doesn't from.

Theres got to be a confusing between our points here....

It obviously is.

... So Raikage actually didn't need more momentum for his punch to be more effective then it did the first time, against Madara?

He clearly thrusted in the first panel.

And clearly use his back hand too. Does that back hand now = thrust of Chidori no momentum of its attack?

No, it's less effective. That's it. The only reason it did more damage is because it hit a part that isn't as durable as the main body.

Is there prove that V2 arms are less durable then the main body? Other then using our interpret on why Raiton failed against main body close range strike then it did against arms?

If only Kakashi didn't have momentum behind his thrust when he hit the V2 Jins.


But he did.

that momentum is close range then he did against V2 arms.

 

[Zexion~]

Im not saying it would up gian i'm saying it would up Iron Sand

Secondly the time where Kakashi himself stated Kakuzu was too fast? Pretty sure that could catch Bee

 

[Haizaki]

Not without drawbacks. Never said it wouldn't be able to tank it.

He has Samehada which can heal him.

Even if Bee tries to replicate what Madara did at VotE, Hashi can easily slap Bee's BD back at him with his Hotei no jutsu

Spoiler

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Not if more than one TBB is fired. There's no slapping CTBB which is more than one...Even if I give you this point, then B can easily fires it off in this form which can't be slapped

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Not to mention if the other form is slapped back at B, he can easily have Samehada absorb the TBB.

I'll admit i didn't account for Samehada's healing factor so I can see why it was a faulty premise now.

Ok no problem.

It would still serve as a good distraction while Hashirama sets up Jukai kotan.

Not really.

If Bee fires off Bijuudama in an attempt to destroy the forest Hashi already stated he could redirect Juubito's BD away:

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Hahsirama cannot redirect this

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[Haizaki]

And knowing you're *****in to Ice, you conceded but still dropped points like the redirection aspect which I definitely had to respond to...Maybe you should learn what a concession is Lol. You conceded some points but not everything and I had to address those points...Have you been in a debate before? Dafuq?

When Kidgamer replies to me like you did in the first place, then I'll reply to him. Lmao are you relying on Kidgamer to help you out when you responded to me? FOH with that nonsense if you think I'm afraid of Kidgamer Lmao.

 

[Zexion~]

And knowing you're *****in to Ice, you conceded but still dropped points like the redirection aspect which I definitely had to respond to...Maybe you should learn what a concession is Lol. You conceded some points but not everything and I had to address those points...Have you been in a debate before? Dafuq?

When Kidgamer replies to me like you did in the first place, then I'll reply to him. Lmao are you relying on Kidgamer to help you out when you responded to me? FOH with that nonsense if you think I'm afraid of Kidgamer Lmao.

You were right until you said you ain't afraid of KG.....deep down everyone's afraid of KG U_U

 

[Chazzi]

Stops at 7, Tsukuyomi one shots. He already knew about sharingan genjutsu after his clash with Sasuke, yet still got caught vs Itachi. He definitely falls prey to it.

 

[Haizaki]

You were right until you said you ain't afraid of KG.....deep down everyone's afraid of KG U_U

He's very good but if I'm confident? Nope...Though he's better me hands down. The only debater I can think of fearing is FT.

 

[KidGamer65]

I dont think that necessary with clones doing the contact

They'd get obliterated even worse since it takes less to destroy them.

Ok well I dont see the problem of Kakuzu bracing the attack with Domu activated.

Ok, I can agree with that.

Ok..? Im arguing about the requirements to break Domu according to your premise, not how fast Bee needs to be

.
You said that the power will depend on the momentum, which will depend on the distance. I'm telling you that the distance is irrelevant.

They have everything to do with each other, as I pointed out Ay stating needed to gain more speed to breach Madara. Obviously the same lightening punch isnt going to do the same on Madara with more speed and momentum.. Which you are suggesting

No, they don't. Where you begin charging from isn't equivalent to range. Ay's punch is still short range no matter how far away or how fast he comes.

Theres got to be a confusing between our points here....

Yes, there is. You are using range as distance, and I'm using range as the range the attack works at, and Raikiri is short ranged.

... So Raikage actually didn't need more momentum for his punch to be more effective then it did the first time, against Madara?

Yes, he did.

And clearly use his back hand too. Does that back hand now = thrust of Chidori no momentum of its attack?

Never said it did, nor is that relevant, cause all I need to do is show that he thrusted like he normally does, and failed to pierce.

Is there prove that V2 arms are less durable then the main body? Other then using our interpret on why Raiton failed against main body close range strike then it did against arms?

The fact that Raikiri was tanked by the main body, while Raikiri Chain cut the arms is proof enough.

that momentum is close range then he did against V2 arms.

Not really, cause Kakashi charged in and then thrusted.

Im not saying it would up gian i'm saying it would up Iron Sand

Secondly the time where Kakashi himself stated Kakuzu was too fast? Pretty sure that could catch Bee

And I already addressed that.

If only B weren't leagues above Kakashi in speed.

 

[Conspirator.]

Stops at 11. Base Hashirama would shit on Bee.

 

[Zexion~]

He's very good but if I'm confident? Nope...Though he's better me hands down. The only debater I can think of fearing is FT.

Afraid of that softie Lol please

And I already addressed that.

If only B weren't leagues above Kakashi in speed.

So you're saying this with Raiton wouldn't be able to pierce it ?

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Eh, Bee was a bit above Kisame, Gai>> Kisame .... Isn't Kakashi on par with Gai in speed?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

You said that the power will depend on the momentum, which will depend on the distance. I'm telling you that the distance is irrelevant.

Im not sure how it's irrelevant, unless we conclude the damage Bee did to the cliff is the same damage he use against Sasuke..

No, they don't. Where you begin charging from isn't equivalent to range. Ay's punch is still short range no matter how far away or how fast he comes.

Im aware of that.. That isn't my point. When im talking about long range, obviously the characters such as Kakashi and Ay dont have a long range Raiton. But if they want their Raiton attack to be superior they need to cross the distance of their attack to make it superior.

Yes, there is. You are using range as distance, and I'm using range as the range the attack works at, and Raikiri is short ranged.

I was trying to prove that "range" is where the attack works best at. So a short range attack, Chidori, works better if they cross long distance range with it.

Never said it did, nor is that relevant, cause all I need to do is show that he thrusted like he normally does, and failed to pierce.

It also points that a back hand Rikiri is doing the same significant damage then a better use hand formation. Which brings back my example at the table: Can a back handed Rikiri even breach and penetrate Ay's cloak and some skin like Sasuke's Chidori?

Why did Kakashi think a backhand works out better then thrust?

The fact that Raikiri was tanked by the main body, while Raikiri Chain cut the arms is proof enough.

Which I am using to support my point that, Kakashi building more momutem/range gain with Raikiri works much better then less movement.

Not really, cause Kakashi charged in and then thrusted.

The distance was less then 5 meters tho

 

[KidGamer65]

Why are people bringing up Wood Dragon?

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If he gets tied up, then he'll have his Bijuudama explode right there which would destroy Wood Dragon while he tanks it like he did in the Manga. Don't bring up "He didn't do it before when he was faced with WD" Because he had Gai on top of his head.

Rethinking of this matchup, it can actually go either way with Hahsirama.

He didn't tank it in the manga. He was knocked out of Bijuu Mode...

He was injured but it didn't slow him down, he went to rest afterwards because he reached his own limit as he said..The bold doesn't make sense. Because one was protected from an attack which is much better than taking the attack means they can't take the attack?

He reached his limit because he took a direct hit from his Bijuu Dama. That much is clear, and obvious.

Then B uses a weaker Bijuudama to begin with. He tanked a full powered bijuudama as stated here

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and he even has Samehada which can heal him here in this case.

Pretty sure that's the smallest Bijuu Dama he has available to himself, and even if he has Samehada to heal his own injuries, Hachibi will have to gather more chakra before B re enters Bijuu Mode, thus Hashirama kills him in the blink of an eye. Hell, the time it'd take for Samehada to completely heal him to the point where he could re enter Bijuu Mode is long enough for Base Hashi to kill him.

Hahsirama is going to keep brining out WD after it's countered? Doesn't sound smart when he didn't do that in the Manga. Still doesn;t matter when B can heal with Samehada.

Agreed. Not smart, but considering Hotei Hands that rival Full Kurama in size give him the opening he needs to bind B and land Mokuryu.

Not to mention, I gave a strategy of how he doesn't have to hit himself....He'll do what Kurama did at VOTE against WD like I showed.

And then Hashirama catches it, and tosses it right back at Killer B.

Edit: No Mokujin? Hashi loses.

He spanks even without Mokujin.

Not if more than one TBB is fired. There's no slapping CTBB which is more than one...Even if I give you this point, then B can easily fires it off in this form which can't be slapped

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More than one isn't going to make a difference. Naruto slapped away 5 Bijuu Dama at once. Mokuton Hands that can rival Full Kurama in size do the same. Then there's the fact that each individual Bijuu Dama is

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than the usual standard Bijuu Dama,

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, and then there's the fact that

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is naturally larger than Gyuki's due to the size difference between Gyuki and Full Kurama. Mokuton Hobi tanked Kurama's Bijuu Dama with very little damage. B's Continuous Bijuu Dama is blocked at the expense of the construct. The dust settles, and B gets bound by Hotei and Mokuryu, and all his chakra is sucked away.

As for the BD point I mentioned. Juubi is Mountain Level in size when it reaches it's V2 state. It's larger than BM Kurama and Gyuki by a good amount, but it's not Mountain Level, and each Continuous BD explosion was only a bit larger than the V1 Juubi. In reality, all you need to do is compare Full Kurama to the explosion of it's BD, and BM Kurama to the explosion of it's single BD, add in the fact that Full Kurama dwarfs Half Kurama and BM Kurama, and you come to the conclusion that individually, Full Kurama's Bijuu Dama is MUCH stronger than the continuous Bijuu Dama. Adding all 4 isn't going to vaporize Hobi and kill Hashirama at the same time. Though it'd probably destroy Hobi.


Then there's the point that Demonic brought up. With a Doton Wall and Jukai Kotan, Hashirama was about to redirect a Juubidama. Substitute the Doton Wall with Rashomon and Hashirama easily redirects Continuous Bijuu Dama, or any Bijuu Dama that B has to offer.

If B fires it off in the wave form, considering it has the smallest explosion of pretty much every single Bijuu Dama ever used. Mokuton Hobi would tank it with zero damage.

Not to mention if the other form is slapped back at B, he can easily have Samehada absorb the TBB.

He couldn't even handle 6 tails from Killer B let alone a full on Bijuu Dama.

Hahsirama cannot redirect this

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He can tank it. I honestly don't see how Killer B stands a chance here. Bijuu Dama has multiple, hard counters, and once he's been bitten by the Mokuryu, he's finished. He can't overpower Mokuton Hotei either.

 

[KidGamer65]

Afraid of that softie Lol please



So you're saying this with Raiton wouldn't be able to pierce it ?

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Eh, Bee was a bit above Kisame, Gai>> Kisame .... Isn't Kakashi on par with Gai in speed?

Nope. If Raiton+A sword is inferior to the regular Chidori, the same would go for Gian.

A bit? B blitzed Kisame when he entered V2. That's not a bit. 6G Gai couldn't outright blitz Kisame either, the latter was able to react. And no, Kakashi isn't on par with 6G Gai in speed.

Im not sure how it's irrelevant, unless we conclude the damage Bee did to the cliff is the same damage he use against Sasuke..

It's irrelevant because Shunshin is one burst of speed. You don't go faster as you cross more distance. So either B didn't use Shunshin on Sasuke, or that cliff damaging Lariat is what blew his chest out.

Im aware of that.. That isn't my point. When im talking about long range, obviously the characters such as Kakashi and Ay dont have a long range Raiton. But if they want their Raiton attack to be superior they need to cross the distance of their attack to make it superior.

Ok then, I agree, somewhat. More so for Ay than Kakashi. We've seen that a good thrust is all the Raikiri/Chidori users need to deal the maximum damage, as seen with Sasuke vs. Ay.

It also points that a back hand Rikiri is doing the same significant damage then a better use hand formation. Which brings back my example at the table: Can a back handed Rikiri even breach and penetrate Ay's cloak and some skin like Sasuke's Chidori?

Your example is irrelevant. We have panels of Kakashi attacking the conventional way, and failing to pierce, meaning Raikiri can't pierce the V2 cloak. Simple as that.

Why did Kakashi think a backhand works out better then thrust?

Whoever said that he did? He thrust first, and failed to pierce. That's all that matters to me.

Which I am using to support my point that, Kakashi building more momutem/range gain with Raikiri works much better then less movement.




The distance was less then 5 meters tho

Distance is always short when Raikiri or Chidori is used. Doesn't decrease it's effectiveness drastically since it's a piercing move. The only momentum needed to reach maximum power is a thrust. Sasuke was only 5 meters away from Ay, but his thrust was good enough to deal the maximum damage.

Completely different from Ay, who uses blunt force to attack since he punches, thus the faster he goes, the harder his punch will be.

 

[Zexion~]

Nope. If Raiton+A sword is inferior to the regular Chidori, the same would go for Gian.

I'm not saying it would increase the potency of Gian my man but a giant spike like that with IS combined with some raiton power.....

That thing / a sword. Especially if Kakuzu's katon can trip up Bee on his back Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

I'm not saying it would increase the potency of Gian my man but a giant spike like that with IS combined with some raiton power.....

That thing / a sword. Especially if Kakuzu's katon can trip up Bee on his back Lol

I know, and that's what I'm addressing. Raiton+Sword is inferior to Chidori, so this hypothetical IS Spike+Raiton would be inferior to Gian, meaning it wouldn't be able to pierce the cloak.

 

[Zexion~]

I know, and that's what I'm addressing. Raiton+Sword is inferior to Chidori, so this hypothetical IS Spike+Raiton would be inferior to Gian, meaning it wouldn't be able to pierce the cloak.

Oh I see what you're saying.

But there's differences the force behind this is much greater then any sword will ever achieve.
Plus even if it doesn't hit Kakuzu coming up domu punching this thing so it does would be clutch Lol

If Sasori can get ISWO before they get wrecked there are a few scenarios that may grant them a win but that's merely wishful thinking U_U


Bee's ***** ass solo's U_U

 

[KidGamer65]

Oh I see what you're saying.

But there's differences the force behind this is much greater then any sword will ever achieve.
Plus even if it doesn't hit Kakuzu coming up domu punching this thing so it does would be clutch Lol

If Sasori can get ISWO before they get wrecked there are a few scenarios that may grant them a win but that's merely wishful thinking U_U

True true, I totally forgot about that part, but I still don't see it rising to a level where it'd pierce through what Raikiri failed to damage at all.

 

[Zexion~]

True true, I totally forgot about that part, but I still don't see it rising to a level where it'd pierce through what Raikiri failed to damage at all.

Lml perhaps not, still would throw him back though. The cloak is stronger defensively then full BM right? As Sasuke did chop through BM easily

 

[KidGamer65]

Lml perhaps not, still would throw him back though. The cloak is stronger defensively then full BM right? As Sasuke did chop through BM easily

Depends. The tentacles aren't really that durable, but the main body is.