[Discussion] Manga Fact Black Zetsu lied

[Honord Sage]

To those who keep using Black Zetsu to say that the Uzumaki came from the Senju Black Zetsu lied. Black Zetsu lied to Madara,Black Zetsu lied to Obito,Black Zetsu lied Sasuke,Black Zetsu lied to Nagato and Black Zetsu lied to Naruto all part of His plan to bring Kaguya back to our reality. Black Zetsu fooled Madara and Obito into doing His biding. So if you keep claiming Black Zetsu as a source you’re being naive sines all Black Zetsu wanted His Mother Kaguya to be free by any means necessary including lying,stealing and killing to get His way.

 

[Wparker6804]

Black Zetzu wasn't the first to say that the Uzumaki came from the Sinju. Besides, how could Naruto have the Sage's chakra if he wasn't a decendant of his youngest son?

Yes, Zetzu was a bold faced liar, but it doesn't mean 100% of everything he says was a lie.

 

[VongolaX]

Okay great, now is there some substantial proof to prove your case?

Like a manga scan or something?

 

[Honord Sage]

Black Zetzu wasn't the first to say that the Uzumaki came from the Sinju. Besides, how could Naruto have the Sage's chakra if he wasn't a decendant of his youngest son?

Yes, Zetzu was a bold faced liar, but it doesn't mean 100% of everything he says was a lie.

Kushina told Naruto that the Uzumaki are distant cousins of the Senju and Kushina is the final say as to the origin of the Uzumaki Clan a Clan that help the village get establish by mediating between their two cousins Clans the Senju and the Uchiha without them their be no village and the leaf village uses the Uzumaki symbol on their uniform as thank to the Uzumaki for everything they have done for the Leaf village. Again Kushina is the ultimate surcease of information the Uzumaki Clan not second and third hand info from a village that keep Naruto in the dark about His Uzumaki Heritage.

 

[Floydical]

What is there to argue? The Senju predated the Uzumaki. The Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju. This means the Uzumaki have Senju blood in them. The Uzumaki coming from the Senju is not incorrect to say the least.

 

[davidou]

Black Zetzu wasn't the first to say that the Uzumaki came from the Sinju. Besides, how could Naruto have the Sage's chakra if he wasn't a decendant of his youngest son?

Yes, Zetzu was a bold faced liar, but it doesn't mean 100% of everything he says was a lie.

What is there to argue? The Senju predated the Uzumaki. The Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju. This means the Uzumaki have Senju blood in them. The Uzumaki coming from the Senju is not incorrect to say the least.

A proof that every Uzumaki is a Senju descendant doesn't exist in the manga.

Even if you believe in BZ,
-Naruto being a Senju wouldn't imply that every Uzumaki are Senju.
-Nagato having Senju genes is not a proof that every Uzumaki has Senju genes.

Even if you believe BZ , there is no proof that Uzumaki are Senju descendants.
And BZ could very well be lying.


Wouldn't it be strange that Kushina had Senju genes and that she has only Yin?


Uzumaki origin is still a mystery.

Okay great, now is there some substantial proof to prove your case?

Like a manga scan or something?

He doesn't want to prove something but to disprove something.
And he did it perfectly.

Bringing another possible solution is enough to disprove something.

He disproved that Uzumaki are Senju descendants , if you don't understand , work on it.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Nah that's true. Ashura can only transmigrant in his descendants.

 

[davidou]

Nah that's true. Ashura can only transmigrant in his descendants.

Even if that was said to be the case in the manga (it's not) , Naruto being a Senju wouldn't imply that every Uzumaki is a Senju...

 

[Floydical]

A proof that every Uzumaki is a Senju descendant doesn't exist in the manga.

Even if you believe in BZ,
-Naruto being a Senju wouldn't imply that every Uzumaki are Senju.
-Nagato having Senju genes is not a proof that every Uzumaki has Senju genes.

Even if you believe BZ , there is no proof that Uzumaki are Senju descendants.
And BZ could very well be lying.


Wouldn't it be strange that Kushina had Senju genes and that she has only Yin?


Uzumaki origin is still a mystery.

I'm not really seeing proof to the counter. Let me try to make my claim clearer.

Take humans. Most historians would agree that at some point Cro-Magnons interbred with Neanderthals. Assuming this, technically all modern day humans have traces of Neanderthal DNA in them. Does it make us a Neanderthal? No, but technically would could be partially classified that way. Even take the prior, Cro-Magnons. We are not technically considered that anymore, but its rooted in our DNA and thus we could still technically be classified in that way, us being their decedents at least. Point is, Uzumaki is to Senju as, perhaps, modern Humans are to Cro-Magnons/ Neanderthals.

My argument is that Uzumaki share DNA with Senju, meaning that the 2 are not completely separated.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Even if that was said to be the case in the manga (it's not) , Naruto being a Senju wouldn't imply that every Uzumaki is a Senju...

Well, Their origins have to lie with the senju. What else would explain their powerful lifeforces?

 

[davidou]

I'm not really seeing proof to the counter. Let me try to make my claim clearer.

Take humans. Most historians would agree that at some point Cro-Magnons interbred with Neanderthals. Assuming this, technically all modern day humans have traces of Neanderthal DNA in them. Does it make us a Neanderthal? No, but technically would could be partially classified that way. Even take the prior, Cro-Magnons. We are not technically considered that anymore, but its rooted in our DNA and thus we could still technically be classified in that way, us being their decedents at least. Point is, Uzumaki is to Senju as, perhaps, modern Humans are to Cro-Magnons/ Neanderthals.

My argument is that Uzumaki share DNA with Senju, meaning that the 2 are not completely separated.

OK , I just wanted to point that Uzumaki being descendants of Ashura is not a fact.
You know that monkeys share DNA with you?
Your argument is true , but it is also true for monkeys , Uzumaki share DNA with monkeys , and?

I think we can believe Kushina when she says that Uzumaki and Senju are distant cousins (it's a relative word , even you are a distant DNA relative of myself).
So , I agree that they share DNA.
But I don't agree to the fact that Kushina (or every Uzumaki) is a descendant of Ashura , cause she can share DNA with him without being his descendant , like you and monkeys.

Your exemple paralleling Uzumaki with modern humans (sapiens sapiens) and Senju with Neanderthals doesn't work great , it is more complicated than the subject itself.
To prove that something is untrue , you just have to prove that something else is possible.
The fact that Kushina could be a descendant of another guy than Ashura , is enough to disprove that she is a descendant of Ashura.
So if you don't see the counter , look better.

 

[davidou]

Well, Their origins have to lie with the senju. What else would explain their powerful lifeforces?

Are you trying to prove something by bringing one similarity?

So , papy tsuchikage is a Senju , he has a huge lifeforce that allow him to save the gokage (including a Senju) from Madara's Katon and Mokuton combo.
Lifeforce doen't mean Senju.


How would you explain the fact that Kushina is Yin?

 

[Seventh Sama]

Are you trying to prove something by bringing one similarity?

So , papy tsuchikage is a Senju , he has a huge lifeforce that allow him to save the gokage (including a Senju) from Madara's Katon and Mokuton combo.
Lifeforce doen't mean Senju.


How would you explain the fact that Kushina is Yin?

When did onoki display lifeforce feats? :|
Kushina is a yin? She survived a full kyuubi extraction far longer than naruto did because of her lifeforce. lifeforce is a yang power.

 

[davidou]

When did onoki display lifeforce feats? :|
Kushina is a yin? She survived a full kyuubi extraction far longer than naruto did because of her lifeforce. lifeforce is a yang power.

-His age and fighting abilities for his age , the fact that he saved Tsunade from death with the strengh of his will of fire that have something to do with Yang.
And still , to stay on the subject , lifeforce doesn't mean Senju , so , your "lifeforce" point is useless , why don't you try to protect yourself against the real point that makes your argument=0?
You give up?

Databook says Kushina is Yin:

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[Floydical]

OK , I just wanted to point that Uzumaki being descendants of Ashura is not a fact.
You know that monkeys share DNA with you?
Your argument is true , but it is also true for monkeys , Uzumaki share DNA with monkeys , and?

I think we can believe Kushina when she says that Uzumaki and Senju are distant cousins (it's a relative word , even you are a distant DNA relative of myself).
So , I agree that they share DNA.
But I don't agree to the fact that Kushina (or every Uzumaki) is a descendant of Ashura , cause she can share DNA with him without being his descendant , like you and monkeys.

Your exemple paralleling Uzumaki with modern humans (sapiens sapiens) and Senju with Neanderthals doesn't work great , it is more complicated than the subject itself.
To prove that something is untrue , you just have to prove that something else is possible.
The fact that Kushina could be a descendant of another guy than Ashura , is enough to prove that she isn't a descendant of Ashura.
So if you don't see the counter , look better.

Well of course. I never defended the idea that all Uzumaki are decedents of Ashura, only that Uzumaki and Senju share DNA. I didn't speak of descendants or direct lineage, assuming you are likening this to a royal bloodline or something, only of sharing DNA.

 

[Seventh Sama]

-His age and fighting abilities for his age , the fact that he saved Tsunade from death with the strengh of his will of fire that have something to do with Yang.
And still , to stay on the subject , lifeforce doesn't mean Senju , so , your "lifeforce" point is useless , why don't you try to protect yourself against the real point that makes your argument=0?
You give up?

Databook says Kushina is Yin:

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It's called a strong will and fyi it's the will of stone not fire. So what? Hiruzen was still kicking ass even when he was an old man. being in a good fighting condition even when you're old doesn't mean you have a powerful lifeforce.

This scan completely shatters your "argument".

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Lineage Definitionirect descent from a particular ancestor; ancestry

as you can see the Uzumaki actually descendant from the Senju. they are the Senju themselves.

this explains why they both have:

1-Powerful Body
2-Long Life
3-Massive Stamina

I honestly don't see no benefit in you trying to prove that the uzumaki clan isn't descended from the senju.

 

[davidou]

Well of course. I never defended the idea that all Uzumaki are decedents of Ashura, only that Uzumaki and Senju share DNA. I didn't speak of descendants or direct lineage, assuming you are likening this to a royal bloodline or something, only of sharing DNA.

My mistake , I understood that you said so in your first post , will you accept my apologies?

It's called a strong will and fyi it's the will of stone not fire. So what? Hiruzen was still kicking ass even when he was an old man. being in a good fighting condition even when you're old doesn't mean you have a powerful lifeforce.

This scan completely shatters your "argument".

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Lineage Definitionirect descent from a particular ancestor; ancestry

as you can see the Uzumaki actually descendant from the Senju. they are the Senju themselves.

this explains why they both have:

1-Powerful Body
2-Long Life
3-Massive Stamina

I honestly don't see no benefit in you trying to prove that the uzumaki clan isn't descended from the senju.

I just try to open your mind to new possibilities.
This does nothing to my "argument" , it just proves your lack of thinking because your conclusion is untrue.
You also lack understanding , cause I'm trying to disprove that Uzumaki are descendants of Ashura , not to prove that they aren't.


Nagato is from Senju lineage , OK , I knew it , that doesn't imply that every Uzumaki is from Senju lineage.
Think about it a little , do you even know who his parents were , we don't even know if it is the mother or the father that has Senju lineage.

This really and completely shatters your "argument".

 

[Seventh Sama]

My mistake , I understood that you said so in your first post , will you accept my apologies?



I just try to open your mind to new possibilities.
This does nothing to my "argument" , it just proves your lack of thinking because your conclusion is untrue.
You also lack understanding , cause I'm trying to disprove that Uzumaki are descendants of Ashura , not to prove that they aren't.


Nagato is from Senju lineage , OK , I knew it , that doesn't imply that every Uzumaki is from Senju lineage.
Think about it a little , do you even know who his parents were , we don't even know if it is the mother or the father that has Senju lineage.

This really and completely shatters your "argument".

*sigh*

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Please tell me how it makes sense to you that naruto & nagato are considered to be from the senju lineage but other uzumaki aren't?

 

[davidou]

*sigh*

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Please tell me how it makes sense to you that naruto & nagato are considered to be from the senju lineage but other uzumaki aren't?

Kushina didn't say that their common ancestor was Ashura or a Senju.
Argument one shoted.


Obviously , they could have gotten the Senju lineage from their non Uzumaki parent.
You know Nagato is called Uzumaki but he has 2 parents , his name tells us that one of his parents was a Uzumaki , he could have the senju lineage from the other parent.
Like Naruto , there is no proof that Minato isn't a Senju , Naruto's Senju lineage could easily come from his father.
In fact there are many threads that talk about the huge similarities between Minato and Tobirama Senju , Minato was raised by the best student of Tobirama , like Naruto , so it could make sense.

Kushina's Yin?What do you thinki about it?

 

[Seventh Sama]

Kushina didn't say that their common ancestors was Ashura or a Senju.
Argument one shoted.


Obviously , from the non Uzumaki parent.
You know Nagato is called Uzumaki but he has 2 parents , his name tells us that one of his parents was a Uzumaki , he could have the senju lineage from the other parent.
Like Naruto , there is no proof that Minato isn't a Senju , Naruto's Senju lineage could easily come from his father.
In fact there are many threads that talk about the huge similarities between Minato and Tobirama Senju , Minato was raised by the best student of Tobirama , like Naruto , so it could make sense.

Kushina's Yin?What do you thinki about it?

Oh because she knew who ashura was right? @bold You're just grasping straws with these statements. Minato a senju, really? something like that would've been mentioned in the story already.

Okay, She's a yin user so? That doesn't mean she can manipulate it.