Base Kakashi i - feats and appreciation (without the Sharingan)

[ATD]

I have made this thread a few months ago, putted it in the vs-section because i thought it would be placed better there due to being about feats, which are mostly used in vs-match ups, but i think its better spotted in the discussion-section.
I also wasn't able to edit things when time has passed, which i noticed later, so sorry that i post this thread double. I will try to change it a bit.

Okay lets see what Kakashi is still capable of without the Sharingan

Kakashi`s perfect senses

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Even though Kakashi was 12 years old he was able to feel the presents of iwa-jonins (one of them was able to use Meisai Gakure no Jutsu)
His senses are more than excellent, feeling the vibrations in the air + smelling the oppents with his accurate scent.

Kakashis senses even allows him to noticing high-level S/T ninjutsus like Kamui

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Kakashi noticed the arriving of the Kamuiusers faster than Sasuke or Naruto did, while the latter in his Kyubi chakra mode is one of the best sensors when it comes to feeling sombodys presents.

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Here Kakashi noticed that Obitos consciousness vanished.
This is not really a useable feat in vs-match ups, but still impressive.

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Even though Kakashi was very weakened he was able to react at least a bit to JJ-Madara, which speaks also for his accurate senses.


Taijutsu/reflexes and Speed

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His reflexes in base (with just one eye) are pretty good.
He grabbed a chidori, which is supposed to be on of the fastest stabs with just one hand and only one eye active (sharingan covered)

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His taijutsu is fine, too, dodging sasukes kick followed by a counter.
For those who will say : "but sasuke was weakened due to the danzo fight"
yeah he was, but he is the reincarnation of indra, which means he possesses tons of stamina and chakra.
In addition to that he got healed few chapters ago by karins uzumaki healing jutsu

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in my opinion this is a speed feat.
Even though rin showed up in this scan, Kakashi was physically able to get in front of the ash bone, which is supposed to be a very fast attack.

In general Kakashi is very fast, in war he kept up with v2 jinchurikis and 6gate guy via using raikiri.
Now without the sharingan he isn't able to see the counterattack, thats why he can't hold the speed- level he used in the war arc, but his clones still are able to strike with the same speed war arc Kakashi showed, because they don't have to worry about the counterattack due to being just clones.

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Kakashi blitzing Sakura (not that impressive, but a feat)

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This is probably the best reflex/movement-speed feat of base Kakashi.
-throw 2 Kunais in to different directions while falling down very fast
-saved obito by aiming perfectly at his hand (small object and it was not a short distance the kunai traveled )
-kink a scroll around a kunai while falling
-grabbed sakura and with the other hand he hold the scroll
Doing all this things almost at the same time

what if Kakashi increases all this feats by using Hachimon and opening the first gate

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with this i think Kakashi will be on the same level as base guy or even slightly better, only my opinion.



Strength
The scan i posted above also shows that Kakashi is physically very strong, throwing a kunai powerful enough so it is able to hold 2 people.

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Even though Kakashi is shown with the sharingan active in this scan, he shows that he can wield the Kubikiribōchō with one hand, which speaks for his physically strength.

Ninjutsu, Handseals

His skill of hand seals is the same as before, whether having the sharingan or not, he only needed the sharingan for coping the seals and he copied a lot of hand seal combinations.

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This many Seals in seconds.

The only disadvantage of Kakashi lacking the sharingan in terms of ninjutsu is loosing the proper use of raikiri, but his clones are still able to use it, because they don't have to worry about the counterattack.
Beast runner still can be used by the original cause the Kakashi isn't moving at high-speed instead of the raiton
wolf he summons.
Raiden can be used by clones.
Raiton kage bunhsin still can be used.
All other ninjutsus Kakashi posses can be used the same way as before.

There is still Rasengan

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Chakra/Stamina

I think many members know this scan.
I took it from a comment of Elite Kakashi, i hope this is okay.

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Its true, Kakashis chakra levels improved very much, but now imagine how much Chakra Kakashi got to use without getting drained by Sharingan and the loss of Kamui.
He can use much more clones and Raiton variants, staying much longer underground via hiding like a mole and lasting longer in battle, which allows him to form strategies more precise without putting himself under the gun.


Intelligence



Kakashi is calm in every situation even when the strongest being of the ninja universe shows up he keeps a clear mind.

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He formed the strategy which led to the defeat of Kaguya

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Even the sage of the 6 paths, Hagoromo otsuki, praised Kakashis intelligence and called it godly.

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I know that some scans contain pictures where Kakashi is shown with the Sharingan active, but its about the other skills independed of the Sharingan.

 

[AnimusOra]

Kakashi is capable of being a good shinobi without Obito's sharingan. But there is one thing in your thread that you did not mention. It's the fact that he had his sharingan for so many years then for him to have it taken away definitely attributed to some sort of disorientation. Think about it, having a non-stop sharingan for so long and being use to seeing through 1 eye majority of the time and when both are visible you see chakra in the other. Im sure this probably messed with him for awhile and he had to get use to not seeing chakra. But he is a capable a shinobi nonetheless. His father was a great shinobi more respected and feared than the 3 sanin. From what we saw his father didn't have any sage abilites. Interesting to think of too is how much more powerful Kakashi could have been if his dad did not die and he trained him more with the sharingan!

 

[Aznkidd]

Because he is main character. He is sensei and needed to be respected as Jiraiya. Unlike we have main fodder that ruin the team 7.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Kakashi is a legend. A tool kit for any situation required. Hands down one of the best characters of this manga.

 

[LeSauce]

Kakashi>Lee without Sharingan in taijutsu. At least in the books.

 

[Madaras torso]

Not as cool as itachi but Kakashi has skill without a doubt

Kakashi>Lee without Sharingan in taijutsu. At least in the books.

You shouldn't post things that aren't true :/

 

[iNotorious]

Kakashi<Lee without Sharingan in taijutsu. At least in the books.

@OT;

Great thread OP.

 

[ATD]

Kakashi is capable of being a good shinobi without Obito's sharingan. But there is one thing in your thread that you did not mention. It's the fact that he had his sharingan for so many years then for him to have it taken away definitely attributed to some sort of disorientation. Think about it, having a non-stop sharingan for so long and being use to seeing through 1 eye majority of the time and when both are visible you see chakra in the other. Im sure this probably messed with him for awhile and he had to get use to not seeing chakra. But he is a capable a shinobi nonetheless. His father was a great shinobi more respected and feared than the 3 sanin. From what we saw his father didn't have any sage abilites. Interesting to think of too is how much more powerful Kakashi could have been if his dad did not die and he trained him more with the sharingan!

Normally it would be only logical that somebody looses Orientation, but seeing how well Kakashi saved Sakura,Obito and himself from falling into the lava, shortly after he lost the sharingan speaks against a disorientation in my opinion.

 

[Alfred Pennyworth]

I suspect that in this scan

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he did it with the aid of the sharingan. Otherwise it's a perfect thread. The Ninjutsu part is covered especially well.

The kakashi that opened the first gate hadn't trained for years, I imagine he could open even more now with more physical training.

 

[awesomeseimei]

Indeed, he is one of the most versatile and resourceful ninjas out there.

 

[Black Wolf]

Disagree with some of your feats.

The Sasuke one was a dramatic entrance; hardly qualifies as a feat. Everyone looks badass when they make a battle entrance. Entrance feats are distinguishable from in-battle feats.

Your Kabuto feat is also questionable. That wasn't Kabuto's real body but one of the reanimated corpses, so we have no idea how impressive blitzing one of those actually is.

Getting in front of the Ash Bones is clearly a "plot" moment, especially with the Rin ghost tugging him and Obito simultaneously. I doubt that would qualify as a speed feat.

The Kamui-sensing feats are also questionable; it's pretty feasible that he might have just seen the Kamui warp, especially the one with Obito appearing behind Naruto.

You could've made a much better argument for hand seals. Kakashi hasn't actually needed to use them for a while. He's made Raikiri numerous times with no hand seals, same with Raikiri wolf, and arguably the Suijinheki he used against Kakuzu.

As for the weapons argument, you could've also showed him using shuriken so well that he forced Naruto to use Kage Bunshin just to dodge the shuriken when they were sparring in early Part II. Pretty impressive feat to force KB usage just to dodge mere shuriken.

That being said . . .

I still rank EoS Kakashi as Kage level, although low. I'm truly disappointed in how he was handled overall. There were so many routes Kishimoto could have went with him. Why not teach him FTG; he was Minato's student afterall, and if those three no-name bodyguards did it, Kakashi could have too. Why not show off some White Fang techniques? His father is probably the only legendary figure that we know literally nothing about. Why not show off some of his thousands of techniques?

Kakashi is a cool character, but his treatment is easily among the most disappointing in the manga. He had so much potential, but in the end he just turned into a strictly Raikiri + Kamui user, and that got boring and also very crippling when he lost the Sharingan.

 

[Xlad]

Kakashi was getting so horridly underrated after the loss of Sharingan. Great thread from you.

 

[AnimusOra]

Normally it would be only logical that somebody looses Orientation, but seeing how well Kakashi saved Sakura,Obito and himself from falling into the lava, shortly after he lost the sharingan speaks against a disorientation in my opinion.

That is true but they were all probably hyped up on adrenaline during all of this for it to really hit him. If you notice he still covered his eye in the last two chapters even though he technically didn't need to. That's just what he is use to and comfortable with

 

[LeSauce]

@OT;

Great thread OP.

He actually beats Lee though, not even joking. In the book anyway,

 

[BLAZE]

This guy thinks Kakashi defeats Konan without sharingan Lol

OT: Good thread

 

[iNotorious]

He actually beats Lee though, not even joking. In the book anyway,

''Book'' what?

Lee beats the hell out of kakashi.

 

[Aznkidd]

This guy thinks Kakashi defeats Konan without sharingan Lol

OT: Good thread

Any proof that he can not ?
Ps. The 6 billion bombs is a prepared trap, not usage if without prep. time.

 

[Joon]

Kakashi is capable of being a good shinobi without Obito's sharingan. But there is one thing in your thread that you did not mention. It's the fact that he had his sharingan for so many years then for him to have it taken away definitely attributed to some sort of disorientation. Think about it, having a non-stop sharingan for so long and being use to seeing through 1 eye majority of the time and when both are visible you see chakra in the other. Im sure this probably messed with him for awhile and he had to get use to not seeing chakra. But he is a capable a shinobi nonetheless. His father was a great shinobi more respected and feared than the 3 sanin. From what we saw his father didn't have any sage abilites. Interesting to think of too is how much more powerful Kakashi could have been if his dad did not die and he trained him more with the sharingan!

I agree, however, about the his father.....

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[BLAZE]

Any proof that he can not ?
Ps. The 6 billion bombs is a prepared trap, not usage if without prep. time.

We got a second one now Lol

 

[SSStylish]

''Book'' what?

Lee beats the hell out of kakashi.

Lee gets beaten by a Kakashi without a Sharingan in Kakahi's novel. That's what he meant by book.