Base Hashirama vs EMS Sasuke

[Unorthodox]

Since when I was a fan ? That's you whose fan of me

You rockin unorthodox disciple when i didn't even know you exist pretty sure thats make you a fan but i dont blame you because im very influential

 

[Amaterasu]

You rockin unorthodox disciple when i didn't even know you exist pretty sure thats make you a fan but i dont blame you because im very influential

Nice fanfic again

 

[KidGamer65]

Ps beats any other susanoo thats not ps so ofc it wins however the one he used took cover kurama equals that ps

Lol, no it doesn't. Scaling shows that Sasuke's PS down scales to the same general level as the Susanoo he used to fight Juubito. (Same durability, same speed, etc, just like Rikudo BM and Rikudo PS)

So no. EMS Madara's PS is not equal to Sasuke's, it's above. Stop giving Madara's feats over to Sasuke. Sasuke has no feats, hype, or logical reasoning that would put his PS dead equal with Madara's.

That's a standing Susanoo against Ps it's pretty clear which is stronger. ​

Correction. That's a Complete Susanoo enhanced with Naruto, Minato and Jugo's chakra. That's basically the same level as Sasuke's regular PS.

Also why would Madara Ps be tiers above Sasuke's when his Rib cage,Skeleton Version,V1 armored version showed no superior to Sasuke's Rib cage,Skeleton version,v1 armored version?

​

Tbh, there aren't even enough feats for their lower Susanoo to even begin to compare them. Scaling shows that Rikudo PS scales down to the Susanoo Sasuke used on Juubito.

Rikudo BM=Rikudo PS

Subtract Rikudo powers.

BM=PS

That Susanoo equaled BSM in physical ability and durability after a Senjutsu Boost.

Subtract the Senjutsu boost.

Enhanced Susanoo=BM...just like Sasuke's PS.

 

[King Of Pop]

=Haizaki;18519918]
Lol at the branch talk but like I said it was enhanced by Senjutsu and the Kyuubi cloak as you can see

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...Put that aside and it's not doing jack to Mokujin. Not to mention Mokujin already evaded its slash as I showed

.
actually, the v3 wasnt enhanced by any senjutsu when it cut that branch, jugo applied the Cs chakra when they were finally about to engage obito directly which was after sasuke had sliced that branch as shown

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. other than that, its all cool.

Even if Mokujin is somehow destroyed, Hahsirama is protected via the Hobi technique and he creates Mokujin again like he did afterwards

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Meanwhile we have the fact that Sauske can't do jack after Kirin.

and why exactly? it was a one shot for him back then because he spent his remaining chakra creating the conditions with his katons, a process sped up by amaterasu. the jutsu itself doesnt require his chakra and sasuke here has amaterasu and Enton in abundance so one use its not affecting him much.
its not a factor in this matchup but just felt i should correct that.

This is a question for everyone supporting Sasuke (especially unorthdox). What do you think is stronger?

This?

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Or This?

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Lol did you really had to ask this? madara leveled several mountain tops with mere shockwaves, thats enough to answer. that v3 has nothing on that despite its boosts.

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol did you really had to ask this? madara leveled several mountain tops with mere shockwaves, thats enough to answer.

I just had to make sure that we were all on the same page. Lol.

 

[Haizaki]

.
actually, the v3 wasnt enhanced by any senjutsu when it cut that branch, jugo applied the Cs chakra when they were finally about to engage obito directly which was after sasuke had sliced that branch as shown

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. other than that, its all cool.

Point.

and why exactly? it was a one shot for him back then because he spent his remaining chakra creating the conditions with his katons, a process sped up by amaterasu. the jutsu itself doesnt require his chakra and sasuke here has amaterasu and Enton in abundance so one use its not affecting him much.
its not a factor in this matchup but just felt i should correct that.

Another point but me saying he can't do jack means nothing in his arsenal won't scratch Mokujin after this. Plus Sasuke still had to use his high leveled fire style techniques despite there being a massive amount of Amaterasu around. Plus the fact that he has to use Susanoo which consumes a lot...After Kirin, he couldn't use his Sharingan

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despite using it during Kirin.

 

[King Of Pop]

Point.



Another point but me saying he can't do jack means nothing in his arsenal won't scratch Mokujin after this. Plus Sasuke still had to use his high leveled fire style techniques despite there being a massive amount of Amaterasu around. Plus the fact that he has to use Susanoo which consumes a lot...After Kirin, he couldn't use his Sharingan

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despite using it during Kirin.

Lol carry on, i dont see kirin doing much here anyways.

 

[Unorthodox]

Lol, no it doesn't. Scaling shows that Sasuke's PS down scales to the same general level as the Susanoo he used to fight Juubito. (Same durability, same speed, etc, just like Rikudo BM and Rikudo PS)
So no. EMS Madara's PS is not equal to Sasuke's, it's above. Stop giving Madara's feats over to Sasuke. Sasuke has no feats, hype, or logical reasoning that would put his PS dead equal with Madara's.

Let me get this right i hope your not trying to say that susanoo would rival a perfect susanoo lawd not even close. A Kurama cloak and curse mark does not make up for the gap perfect susanoo would have over a v3 standing susanoo to further shit on your claims that was a v3 he used during that what if he would have went to v4 susanoo?

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so this susanoo with those same enhancements would > Sasuke perfect susanoo? Not even close trying to base you logic off their Hagoromo chakra boost lands you know where why because Sasuke ps before his Rinnegan was larger than the kurama avatar

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yet when he used his perfect susanoo witch was obviously much bigger than kurama as its body

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hence alone it would have been much bigger than kurama avatar compared to when his ps with rinnegan was only the same size as it what you didnt take into account addition to kurama chakra he got the power of the bijuus individually and dont say it came with Hagoromo chakra because it didnt he never even had the bijuu in him also this what allowed naruto to make multiply kurama avatars.

Correction. That's a Complete Susanoo enhanced with Naruto, Minato and Jugo's chakra. That's basically the same level as Sasuke's regular PS.

Thats not even a complete susanoo thats v3 this is ems sasuke complete susanoo

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Not even close we've seen his ems susanoo is much bigger than that thus much stronger.

Tbh, there aren't even enough feats for their lower Susanoo to even begin to compare them. Scaling shows that Rikudo PS scales down to the Susanoo Sasuke used on Juubito..

Are you beaten that badly you gotta resort to this yet and every other thread you compared their weaker versions of susanoo to each other giving them the same durability but now its not that but why is'it because it helps your argument this is a prime example why i be exposing you. You cant say one thing another thread then try to bend your words or say well i changed my mind and if you really believe this why in the gai thread were your main argument was hirudora destroying Madara's V3 so it will destroys Sasuke V3? kill that noise your bias has always gotten the best of you

Madara's Ribcage = Sasuke's Sasuke's V2 = Madara's V2 Madara's V3 = Sasuke's V3 Madara's PS > Sasuke's PS? what something does not add up o i know your logic is shit so please stop using it.

I'm 100% sure Evani already handled this part of unorthodox's post. Ribcage Susanoo has never tanked Cho Oodama Rasengan in this manga. Not once, not ever. As you can see in the scan, the Rasengan hit him, and his Ribcage started to shred away

This is a quote from you in are official debate a long time ago where you said Odama rasengan > ribcagse susanoo based on what happened there. But none of this happened to Sasuke's Ribcage only Madra this is what i mean when a argument helps you stick with it vs using the same logic no matter what side of the table your debating from your inconsistencies are killing my friend.

Rikudo BM=Rikudo PS
Subtract Rikudo powers.
BM=PS
That Susanoo equaled BSM in physical ability and durability after a Senjutsu Boost.
Subtact the Senjutsu boost.
Enhanced Susanoo=BM...just like Sasuke's PS.

Already countered. Subtract Hagoromo's power now you wanna use that i was not aware Hagoromo power gave sasuke the ability to use chidori with Susanoo or better chakra controll i also was not aware Hagoromo gave naruto the power to use multiply Kurama avatars that logic just fails periode.

 

[Unorthodox]

What's really funny is this dude thinks Madara aimed shockwaves at the Gokage...Like seriously why again should this guy be replied to? If he could read he'll see Madara hit a rock and came falling towards the Gokage

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He said the fodders could have been killed by the shockwaves despite them not being close but the Hokages who were in Range somehow survived it according to your logic? Enough of your jokes.


Oh yeah? So Because this happened

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it means Wood Dragon can't absorb a technique that's burning the body with chakra. Even Preta took a while to absorb a much smaller technique

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and you're talking about a Bijuudama which was used to instantly destroy WD from the inside of its mouth which it has never even used to absorb. Amaterasu=\= to those techniques. Trash arguments.

still taking things out of context i did not say the fodders would die i said they felt no effect of the fight whatsoever and wrong again you said he swung his sword towards mokujin so why would the fodders be effected then i replied with he swung his sword towards the meteors not the gokage yet they still felt the shockwaves your just to stupid and to your wood dragon argument it would be good if wood dragon was smaller then the bijuu (Witch it is not) compared to the preta path pain that was actually smaller than the rasengan good god your dumb and if your not going to reply to my post why are you still here? or talking about the discussion witch you've been already owned in?

 

[KidGamer65]

Let me get this right i hope your not trying to say that susanoo would rival a perfect susanoo lawd not even close. A Kurama cloak and curse mark does not make up for the gap perfect susanoo would have over a v3 standing susanoo to further shit on your claims that was a v3 he used during that what if he would have went to v4 susanoo?

1 Paragraph, and you've failed to directly counter the scaling argument. The bold is something I've already addressed. If you don't think it's as strong as Sasuke's normal PS, I suggest that you prove it.

so this susanoo with those same enhancements would > Sasuke perfect susanoo? Not even close trying to base you logic off their Hagoromo chakra boost lands you know where why because Sasuke ps before his Rinnegan was larger than the kurama avatar

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yet when he used his perfect susanoo witch was obviously much bigger than kurama as its body

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hence alone it would have been much bigger than kurama avatar compared to when his ps with rinnegan was only the same size as it what you didnt take into account addition to kurama chakra he got the power of the bijuus individually and dont say it came with Hagoromo chakra because it didnt he never even had the bijuu in him also this what allowed naruto to make multiply kurama avatars.

Size changes nothing, nor does this prove that the gap between Naruto's Avatar and Sasuke's PS in size is tremendous. All it means is that it's larger, you don't know by how much.

Gonna need proof for any of the nonsense in the bold. Naruto's other Bijuu chakra have literally no bearing on his Avatar's strength, because his Avatar is Kurama. Not Kurama+the other 8 Bijuu. Nor is there any proof that he was able to make multiple Avatars because he had multiple Bijuu. The rest of the Bijuu share no characteristics with Kurama, so why in the hell would their presence matter when it comes to Kurama's strength? Shadow clones and Naruto's power are the reasons why he can make multiple clones.

You've failed to counter the argument though. Rikudo PS=Rikudo BM avatar. Subtract the Rikudo boost (Half of Hagoromo's chakra each), and you get PS=BM Avatar, just how Sasuke's Susanoo was.

Thats not even a complete susanoo thats v3 this is ems sasuke complete susanoo

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Not even close we've seen his ems susanoo is much bigger than that thus much stronger.

Learn how to classify Susanoo.

V1=Ribcage

V2=Skeletal

V3=Complete

V4=Armored

Are you beaten that badly you gotta resort to this yet and every other thread you compared their weaker versions of susanoo to each other giving them the same durability but now its not that but why is'it because it helps your argument this is a prime example why i be exposing you. You cant say one thing another thread then try to bend your words or say well i changed my mind and if you really believe this why in the gai thread were your main argument was hirudora destroying Madara's V3 so it will destroys Sasuke V3? kill that noise your bias has always gotten the best of you

Lol, what a child. When you can show me using the bolded argument after I switched over to the scaling argument, then we can talk. Every time you can't counter my argument, you moan and cry about how I'm biased. Counter the argument or don't waste my time. The only thing you are "exposing" is your inability to debate properly.

Like I've said literally every time. You and YounqDebater (Wonder why it's always the same people ) take posts from half a year ago or more, (Like the official debate we had, which even then backfires since you don't know what you are talking about) without taking into account that new shit happens in the manga, and people form new opinions as they debate with others. The only time you caught me "contradicting" myself was when I said Raikage took zero damage, but even then I didn't really contradict myself in a different thread since later on in the same thread, I ended up saying that Raikage took negligible damage on the 3rd page after I went back and forth a few posts with YD, something that was ignored when you guys tried to "expose" me. Lol.

@bold: Madara's Susanoo>Sasuke's Susanoo, so if I say Hirudora obliterates the stronger one, no shit I'm gonna use that as evidence for the weaker one getting obliterated.

Even then, I always came to the conclusion that Sasuke's PS is weaker, and that there is no gap in strength between their Susanoo that would not make Sasuke's a Mountain Buster/Cutter, not that it's equal like you are claiming, based off of almost nothing of course. The only reason you are complaining about my new argumentation is because:

1. It directly contradicts your views.

2. It shows that Sasuke isn't as strong as you think he is. (We all know how you love you some "Lord" Sasuke)

3. You can't counter it.

I used to think Edo Madara beat Hashirama with ease, by your shitty logic, I should be saying that Edo Madara STILL beats him despite new events and new arguments, and arguments with other members obliterating said opinion.

Madara's Ribcage = Sasuke's Sasuke's V2 = Madara's V2 Madara's V3 = Sasuke's V3 Madara's PS > Sasuke's PS? what something does not add up o i know your logic is shit so please stop using it.

Zero proof for any of this.

See? We've gotten this far in your post and you haven't directly countered the argument. You are using invalid, incomplete, flawed comparisons to try and discredit concrete scaling. Pathetic.

-Madara's "Ribcage".

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-Sasuke's "Ribcage".

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Same exact stage, which seems to be in between V1 and V2, yet Madara's is clearly larger than Sasuke's, and it's noticeable. Very noticeable. Not sure where "their equal" came from, but it wasn't the manga.

Then there's Sasuke's Armored Susanoo w/o legs, and Madara's Armored Susanoo w/o legs.

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Albeit Sasuke's can probably become larger than what we initially saw him use after his transplantation, he has no feats of using a Susanoo anywhere near the size of Full Kurama.

This is a quote from you in are official debate a long time ago where you said Odama rasengan > ribcagse susanoo based on what happened there. But none of this happened to Sasuke's Ribcage only Madra this is what i mean when a argument helps you stick with it vs using the same logic no matter what side of the table your debating from your inconsistencies are killing my friend.

None of that happened to Sasuke's Ribcage because Sasuke's Ribcage never took an attack as powerful as Chou Oodama Rasengan. So I have no idea what you are getting at here. The rest is just the usual crying and moaning that I have to deal with literally every time we debate.

Even if I had switched my opinions on something, look at the bold. All I need to shut you up. A LONG TIME AGO.

Already countered.

You straight up ignored it.

Subtract Hagoromo's power now you wanna use that i was not aware Hagoromo power gave sasuke the ability to use chidori with Susanoo or better chakra controll i also was not aware Hagoromo gave naruto the power to use multiply Kurama avatars that logic just fails periode.

This doesn't even begin to counter my scaling argument. Like I said above, straight up ignored. Stop with these weak responses. Your posts have more complaining than countering and valid argumentation.

When you can get me feats of EMS Sasuke or BM Naruto cloning their Avatars or using Chidori with Susanoo, then we can talk. Until then, you are merely giving a weaker version of Sasuke, the stronger version's feats, which makes no sense.

 

[Unorthodox]

1 Paragraph, and you've failed to directly counter the scaling argument. The bold is something I've already addressed. If you don't think it's as strong as Sasuke's normal PS, I suggest that you prove it.




Size changes nothing, nor does this prove that the gap between Naruto's Avatar and Sasuke's PS in size is tremendous. All it means is that it's larger, you don't know by how much.

Gonna need proof for any of the nonsense in the bold. Naruto's other Bijuu chakra have literally no bearing on his Avatar's strength, because his Avatar is Kurama. Not Kurama+the other 8 Bijuu. Nor is there any proof that he was able to make multiple Avatars because he had multiple Bijuu. The rest of the Bijuu share no characteristics with Kurama, so why in the hell would their presence matter when it comes to Kurama's strength? Shadow clones and Naruto's power are the reasons why he can make multiple clones.

You've failed to counter the argument though. Rikudo PS=Rikudo BM avatar. Subtract the Rikudo boost (Half of Hagoromo's chakra each), and you get PS=BM Avatar, just how Sasuke's Susanoo was.




Learn how to classify Susanoo.

V1=Ribcage

V2=Skeletal

V3=Complete

V4=Armored



Lol, what a child. When you can show me using the bolded argument after I switched over to the scaling argument, then we can talk. Every time you can't counter my argument, you moan and cry about how I'm biased. Counter the argument or don't waste my time. The only thing you are "exposing" is your inability to debate properly.

Like I've said literally every time. You and YounqDebater (Wonder why it's always the same people ) take posts from half a year ago or more, (Like the official debate we had, which even then backfires since you don't know what you are talking about) without taking into account that new shit happens in the manga, and people form new opinions as they debate with others. The only time you caught me "contradicting" myself was when I said Raikage took zero damage, but even then I didn't really contradict myself in a different thread since later on in the same thread, I ended up saying that Raikage took negligible damage on the 3rd page after I went back and forth a few posts with YD, something that was ignored when you guys tried to "expose" me. Lol.

@bold: Madara's Susanoo>Sasuke's Susanoo, so if I say Hirudora obliterates the stronger one, no shit I'm gonna use that as evidence for the weaker one getting obliterated.

Even then, I always came to the conclusion that Sasuke's PS is weaker, and that there is no gap in strength between their Susanoo that would not make Sasuke's a Mountain Buster/Cutter, not that it's equal like you are claiming, based off of almost nothing of course. The only reason you are complaining about my new argumentation is because:

1. It directly contradicts your views.

2. It shows that Sasuke isn't as strong as you think he is. (We all know how you love you some "Lord" Sasuke)

3. You can't counter it.

I used to think Edo Madara beat Hashirama with ease, by your shitty logic, I should be saying that Edo Madara STILL beats him despite new events and new arguments, and arguments with other members obliterating said opinion.



Zero proof for any of this.

See? We've gotten this far in your post and you haven't directly countered the argument. You are using invalid, incomplete, flawed comparisons to try and discredit concrete scaling. Pathetic.

-Madara's "Ribcage".

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-Sasuke's "Ribcage".

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Same exact stage, which seems to be in between V1 and V2, yet Madara's is clearly larger than Sasuke's, and it's noticeable. Very noticeable. Not sure where "their equal" came from, but it wasn't the manga.

Then there's Sasuke's Armored Susanoo w/o legs, and Madara's Armored Susanoo w/o legs.

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Albeit Sasuke's can probably become larger than what we initially saw him use after his transplantation, he has no feats of using a Susanoo anywhere near the size of Full Kurama.


None of that happened to Sasuke's Ribcage because Sasuke's Ribcage never took an attack as powerful as Chou Oodama Rasengan. So I have no idea what you are getting at here. The rest is just the usual crying and moaning that I have to deal with literally every time we debate.

Even if I had switched my opinions on something, look at the bold. All I need to shut you up. A LONG TIME AGO.






You straight up ignored it.




This doesn't even begin to counter my scaling argument. Like I said above, straight up ignored. Stop with these weak responses. Your posts have more complaining than countering and valid argumentation.

When you can get me feats of EMS Sasuke or BM Naruto cloning their Avatars or using Chidori with Susanoo, then we can talk. Until then, you are merely giving a weaker version of Sasuke, the stronger version's feats, which makes no sense.

this will be replied to when i get back

 

[Haizaki]

Lol carry on, i dont see kirin doing much here anyways.

True bro true.

still taking things out of context i did not say the fodders would die i said they felt no effect of the fight whatsoever and wrong again you said he swung his sword towards mokujin so why would the fodders be effected then i replied with he swung his sword towards the meteors not the gokage yet they still felt the shockwaves your just to stupid and to your wood dragon argument it would be good if wood dragon was smaller then the bijuu (Witch it is not) compared to the preta path pain that was actually smaller than the rasengan good god your dumb and if your not going to reply to my post why are you still here? or talking about the discussion witch you've been already owned in?

Stop replying to me damn. You're Never Ever getting a reply from me in a debate after that nonsense I just read about shockwaves, PS Chidori and no difference in PSusanoo's strength depending on the user.

Now carry on and hop off kid..I'm not interested in your gay desires for me. Leave me alone for the millionth time.

 

[Unorthodox]

True bro true.



Stop replying to me damn. You're Never Ever getting a reply from me in a debate after that nonsense I just read about shockwaves, PS Chidori and no difference in PSusanoo's strength depending on the user.

Now carry on and hop off kid..I'm not interested in your gay desires for me. Leave me alone for the millionth time.

why is it so hard to concede? huh you lost accept defeat in move on

 

[TRE MERCER]

Correction. That's a Complete Susanoo enhanced with Naruto, Minato and Jugo's chakra. That's basically the same level as Sasuke's regular PS.

So wait that standing = Sasuke Ps? Jesus what has the base come to? Please tell me what made you come up with these ridiculous claims?

Also the Hagoromo to Ps and BM thing makes since. ​

 

[KidGamer65]

So wait that standing = Sasuke Ps? Jesus what has the base come to? Please tell me what made you come up with these ridiculous claims?

Also the Hagoromo to Ps and BM thing makes since. ​

If you think that makes sense, then how is the above claim ridiculous? Lol. The bold is the explanation for why that Susanoo is roughly around the level of Sasuke's PS. My evidence is in this thread.

 

[Haizaki]

why is it so hard to concede? huh you lost accept defeat in move on

Because you had the last post means you won? Lmao outta here. No wasting my time with that nonsense fan fiction.

 

[TRE MERCER]

If you think that makes sense, then how is the above claim ridiculous? Lol. The bold is the explanation for why that Susanoo is roughly around the level of Sasuke's PS. My evidence is in this thread.

Because Susanoo strength is measured by DC which a Ps dc would be leagues above that of the standing Susanoo which greatest feat is cutting a branch off the god tree. ​

 

[KidGamer65]

Because Susanoo strength is measured by DC which a Ps dc would be leagues above that of the standing Susanoo which greatest feat is cutting a branch off the god tree. ​

No, Madara's PS is that strong. Sasuke's PS isn't. Besides. That branch dwarfed his Susanoo, despite it being Bijuu Sized. That's low Mountain level.

 

[TRE MERCER]

No, Madara's PS is that strong. Sasuke's PS isn't. Besides. That branch dwarfed his Susanoo, despite it being Bijuu Sized. That's low Mountain level.

So let me ask you this question. If Madara standing Susanoo was inhanced by a cloak and Jugo CM it would be able to slice up mountains like his Ps? ​

 

[ARGUS]

So let me ask you this question. If Madara standing Susanoo was inhanced by a cloak and Jugo CM it would be able to slice up mountains like his Ps? ​

i dont see why not, it will at te very least cut that same branch of the shinju