Madara vs. Jiraiya

[wael reda]

Except the sword was never shown to be broken. Um, blocking and stopping would pretty much be the same thing. If you block something, you have to be able to stop it to consider it blocked.

Even then, EMS Sasuke's PS is inferior to Madara's (by a good amount), which cuts Mountains. A Senjutsu Enhanced Complete Susanoo much larger than the usual Complete Susanoo taking 9 Tail slaps, one equal to Sasuke's PS slash and the other 8 being inferior isn't really surprising, especially since his Susanoo was shattered and he lost an arm.

Rasengan=Chidori<Raikiri. Raikiri barely pierced through Asura Path, but Naruto's Senpo Rasengan obliterated it with one shot. That means SM Rasengan>>>Raikiri>Chidori=Rasengan.

The Movie Guidebook says that when Naruto uses Senjutsu w/ Kyuubi's power, his Ninjutsu is drastically boosted in power.

Manga shows the difference between a Senpo FRS and a Normal FRS.




Hmm, let's see. Sasuke's PS went from being able to take the combination of two Mountain busters to being able to take the combination of two Mountain Range+, probably much much stronger than that, which minor damage. Give his Legged Susanoo that same boost, and it'd tank a Bijuu Dama let alone 9 Tail Slaps from the 9 Bijuu.

Also, that was a V3 Legged Susanoo. Bolding the words tiny and v2 isn't making your argument stronger.

But that doesn't change the fact the tail has equal momentum and durability ,which means equal outcome whatever the kind of it ,also sasuke lost his PS sword ,I don't think it was thrown away ,I think it was broken since the manga meant to show equal damage to both of them

Naruto didnt destroy that ashura path with a rasengan but a punch ,also kakashi has nearly cut the path into half ,he only didn't completly cut it because pain used ST then
But yes ,of course senjutsu enhance ninjutsu greatly so move on

Sm madara's legged Susano wasnt any bigger than the one Edo madara clones used ,also this legged susano was much smaller than the tail


What do you mean by sasuke's PS went ?

It wasnt dressed ,doesn't that make it v2 unlike the one sasuke used ? ,whatever ,I meant it isn't dressed susano

Bolding is to make you pay attention to it ,not to make my argument stronger Lol,you yourself did that with words like senjutsu and drastically

 

[wael reda]

Does Madara have rikudo chakra? ,yes he has ,does it make a much difference? ,I amont sure ,I think kishi missed that part ,hmm ,hashirama even stated that madara has restored his alive power back after he was revived by obito, ,so I think ems madara should be able to replicate blind madara's speed feat against sm naruto and strength feat against hashirama's gates

 

[Holy God]

Probably Madara. It would get taken to a point where Izanagi ends up being used, therefore resulting in the loss of the sage.

 

[Holy God]

Does Madara have rikudo chakra? ,yes he has ,does it make a much difference? ,I amont sure ,I think kishi missed that part ,hmm ,hashirama even stated that madara has restored his alive power back after he was revived by obito, ,so I think ems madara should be able to replicate blind madara's speed feat against sm naruto and strength feat against hashirama's gates

Madara doesn't have any sage chakra, only his own(Indra's).

 

[wael reda]

Madara doesn't have any sage chakra, only his own(Indra's).

It was stated in the manga that when madara merged his chakra and hashirama's which he stole in the vote by biting him ,he gained rikudo chakra which why he awakened the riningan

 

[KidGamer65]

But that doesn't change the fact the tail has equal momentum and durability ,which means equal outcome whatever the kind of it ,also sasuke lost his PS sword ,I don't think it was thrown away ,I think it was broken since the manga meant to show equal damage to both of them

So? Equaling the Momentum of the sword doesn't mean that it'd do as much damage as the sword. It only means it's durable enough to block the sword, and is swung with enough velocity to actually block and stop the sword in it's tracks.

He didn't lose his sword. He put it away. Naruto took no damage either.

Naruto didnt destroy that ashura path with a rasengan but a punch ,also kakashi has nearly cut the path into half ,he only didn't completly cut it because pain used ST then
But yes ,of course senjutsu enhance ninjutsu greatly so move on

Look at it again. That was clearly a Rasengan. Kakashi nearly cut it in half, but failed to do so in the 5 second window, while Naruto obliterated it in a second. Meaning Senjutsu Rasengan>>>Raikiri.

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Sm madara's legged Susano wasnt any bigger than the one Edo madara clones used ,also this legged susano was much smaller than the tail

So? Bigger=/=Stronger, and my main point was that it's bigger than than the standard V3, as in the one w/ no legs that Gai busted open with Hirudora.

What do you mean by sasuke's PS went ?

I mean his PS went from the level where it could tank X with Y amount of damage, to where it could tank X with Y amount of damage despite the two attacks being FAR apart in power. I explained it all in my post, so I'm not sure what the question here is.

It wasnt dressed ,doesn't that make it v2 unlike the one sasuke used ? ,whatever ,I meant it isn't dressed susano

V1-Ribcage

V2-Skeletal

V3-Complete

V4-Armored

It definitely wasn't V1 or V2, and it had no armor on it. So it's V3.

Bolding is to make you pay attention to it ,not to make my argument stronger Lol,you yourself did that with words like senjutsu and drastically

Not sure why you are bolding it when it's irrelevant. Me paying attention to it or not isn't going to make my replies any different. Me stating Senjutsu and Drastically actually helps my argument since those are both canon statements, nor does the comparison you are trying to make even begin to make sense.

 

[KidGamer65]

Does Madara have rikudo chakra? ,yes he has ,does it make a much difference? ,I amont sure ,I think kishi missed that part ,hmm ,hashirama even stated that madara has restored his alive power back after he was revived by obito, ,so I think ems madara should be able to replicate blind madara's speed feat against sm naruto and strength feat against hashirama's gates

Dunno why it makes little-no difference....but oh well.

 

[wael reda]

So? Equaling the Momentum of the sword doesn't mean that it'd do as much damage as the sword. It only means it's durable enough to block the sword, and is swung with enough velocity to actually block and stop the sword in it's tracks.

He didn't lose his sword. He put it away. Naruto took no damage either.



Look at it again. That was clearly a Rasengan. Kakashi nearly cut it in half, but failed to do so in the 5 second window, while Naruto obliterated it in a second. Meaning Senjutsu Rasengan>>>Raikiri.

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So? Bigger=/=Stronger, and my main point was that it's bigger than than the standard V3, as in the one w/ no legs that Gai busted open with Hirudora.



I mean his PS went from the level where it could tank X with Y amount of damage, to where it could tank X with Y amount of damage despite the two attacks being FAR apart in power. I explained it all in my post, so I'm not sure what the question here is.



V1-Ribcage

V2-Skeletal

V3-Complete

V4-Armored

It definitely wasn't V1 or V2, and it had no armor on it. So it's V3.



Not sure why you are bolding it when it's irrelevant. Me paying attention to it or not isn't going to make my replies any different. Me stating Senjutsu and Drastically actually helps my argument since those are both canon statements, nor does the comparison you are trying to make even begin to make sense.

No ,focus ,you would find that naruto has only 8tails and sasuke lost his sword

Spoiler

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Okey about sm naruto's rasengan

About sasuke's PS went ,yes but I mean we has no feats for ems sasuke's legged Susano(with no enhancement and of madara's legged Susano size),so we can't be sure that rinningan sasuke's legged susano (of the same size of madara's) would tank 9biju tails but maybe

I mean there is a version of Susano has clothes and there is another has an armor above the clothes ,madara's wasn't dressed nor armored ,alright?

 

[Holy God]

It was stated in the manga that when madara merged his chakra and hashirama's which he stole in the vote by biting him ,he gained rikudo chakra which why he awakened the riningan

I suppose that works since Madara technically had Hagoromo's chakra before gaining the Rinnegan. I doubt it'd make much of a difference though.

 

[wael reda]

I suppose that works since Madara technically had Hagoromo's chakra before gaining the Rinnegan. I doubt it'd make much of a difference though.

Alright

 

[Leathercandle]

Wait hold it. Jiraiya is powerful. But Madara is Madara. I agree with Penguin. A complete sage mode Naruto could not out maneuver Madara. Madara is still an expert in katon and weaponry. Jiraiya just cannot stack up to him.

 

[KidGamer65]

No ,focus ,you would find that naruto has only 8tails and sasuke lost his sword

Spoiler

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Okey about sm naruto's rasengan

Nope, Naruto lost no tails, as shown below. And I circled Sasuke's blades. He has both.

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About sasuke's PS went ,yes but I mean we has no feats for ems sasuke's legged Susano(with no enhancement and of madara's legged Susano size),so we can't be sure that rinningan sasuke's legged susano (of the same size of madara's) would tank 9biju tails but maybe

Don't need feats for his Legged Susanoo, it's only a matter of scaling. If the gap in power between his EMS PS and his Rikudo PS is something stronger than a Bijuu Dama, then that means each of his Susanoo went up in power by that much. With just a KCC boost from Naruto and Minato, his V3 Susanoo became near PS (his own, not Madara's) leveled, let alone Rikudo Chakra. Meaning his Legged Susanoo would be superior to that w/ Rikudo's Chakra, meaning it'd tank a Bijuu Dama with ease let alone those 9 tail slaps.

I mean there is a version of Susano has clothes and there is another has an armor above the clothes ,madara's wasn't dressed nor armored ,alright?

Not sure what you mean by clothes, but this is V3.

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Skeletal is the one with the bones.

 

[wael reda]

Nope, Naruto lost no tails, as shown below. And I circled Sasuke's blades. He has both.

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Don't need feats for his Legged Susanoo, it's only a matter of scaling. If the gap in power between his EMS PS and his Rikudo PS is something stronger than a Bijuu Dama, then that means each of his Susanoo went up in power by that much. With just a KCC boost from Naruto and Minato, his V3 Susanoo became near PS (his own, not Madara's) leveled, let alone Rikudo Chakra. Meaning his Legged Susanoo would be superior to that w/ Rikudo's Chakra, meaning it'd tank a Bijuu Dama with ease let alone those 9 tail slaps.



Not sure what you mean by clothes, but this is V3.

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Skeletal is the one with the bones.

I couldn't count 9tails in any of these scans,do you mean that the tails arent drawn 9 every time ? Maybe ,but I think this plane view scan I added was clearer
Also PS sword can grow again seen by EMS Madara
Whatever ,it is unclear

You talk about biju sized legged susano ,I am talking about tiny legged Susan ,but yhea ,he should be able to tank that

I mean there is version of Susano with clothes and another with armor ,this legged susano isn't dressed ,it is just meat on bone

There is something about naruto's sm rasengan ,I think naruto's speed and physical strength then give the jutsu much more power ,I think if this naruto held kakashi's raikiri instead,he would just go through ashura path in a second

 

[KidGamer65]

I couldn't count 9tails in any of these scans,do you mean that the tails arent drawn 9 every time ? Maybe ,but I think this plane view scan I added was clearer
Also PS sword can grow again seen by EMS Madara
Whatever ,it is unclear

There is no scan that shows the tail being cut. Those scans all show the tails at varying angles and not one of them was cut or destroyed like

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.

Then that means you have no proof it was broken, cause no panel shows it being broken, ever.

You talk about biju sized legged susano ,I am talking about tiny legged Susan ,but yhea ,he should be able to tank that

Nope. I'm talking about the regular.

I mean there is version of Susano with clothes and another with armor ,this legged susano isn't dressed ,it is just meat on bone

Not sure what you mean here.

]There is something about naruto's sm rasengan ,I think naruto's speed and physical strength then give the jutsu much more power ,I think if this naruto held kakashi's raikiri instead,he would just go through ashura path in a second

That's just an assumption. Will greater physical strength help when it comes to the damage dealt from hitting the target? Yes. Will it change the explosion? No, and that's where most of Rasengan's power comes from.

 

[KingHashirama]

Ems Madara pawns.

 

[Selan]

Madara blitzes him!

 

[wael reda]

There is no scan that shows the tail being cut. Those scans all show the tails at varying angles and not one of them was cut or destroyed like

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.

Then that means you have no proof it was broken, cause no panel shows it being broken, ever.


Nope. I'm talking about the regular.


Not sure what you mean here.



That's just an assumption. Will greater physical strength help when it comes to the damage dealt from hitting the target? Yes. Will it change the explosion? No, and that's where most of Rasengan's power comes from.

Maybe the tail was cut from its beginning
Whatever I have no evidence other than naruto having 8tails and sasuke not holding his sword just after the clash ,however it really doesn't matter,the sword and the tail were portrayed to be rivals regardless of the outcome sort just like rasengan and chidori ,the tail and the sword clashed and then both of PS and BM avatar was pushed back


I just reread your previous post ,you are completely wrong in that part ,with your logic rinningan sasuke's ribcage durability would be close to his PS durability
I would give the susano durability numbers to clarify this point
Let ems sasuke's PS durability equals 10 and his tiny legged Susan(TLS) equals 1 ,if we assumed that his rikudo PS durability became 50 ,with your logic his TLS durability would 1+ (50-10) = 41 ,that means his TLS durability is nearly 80% of his PS durability ,that doesn't even start to make sense ,it isn't a matter of adding ,it is a matter of ratio ,the ratio between his rikudo PS and his rikudo TLS equals the ratio between his ems PS and ems TLS which means his rikudo TLS durability won't be 41 as you think , but it would be 1*(50/10) = 5
With that being said ,the ratio between his ps and TLS Durabilities would be 10/1 whatever the boost sasuke has
So we don't add the gab as you think , which means we can never know his rikudo TLS durability without knowing his ems TLS durability .



Okey ,I think I am wrong about the version (clothes Lol)

Raikiri was already going through the path ,if kakashi was faster and physically stronger ,he would have gone through it faster ,not to mention that raikiri didn't take all the 5 seconds but less

 

[KidGamer65]

Maybe the tail was cut from its beginning

And why would this be the case?

Whatever I have no evidence other than naruto having 8tails and sasuke not holding his sword just after the clash ,however it really doesn't matter,the sword and the tail were portrayed to be rivals regardless of the outcome sort just like rasengan and chidori ,the tail and the sword clashed and then both of PS and BM avatar was pushed back

Except Naruto had all 9 tails, and Sasuke's sword was sheathed, so you have no evidence at all. Lol Naruto blocking Sasuke's sword with his tail doesn't make his tail as strong as Sasuke's sword. That simple.

I just reread your previous post ,you are completely wrong in that part ,with your logic rinningan sasuke's ribcage durability would be close to his PS durability
I would give the susano durability numbers to clarify this point
Let ems sasuke's PS durability equals 10 and his tiny legged Susan(TLS) equals 1 ,if we assumed that his rikudo PS durability became 50 ,with your logic his TLS durability would 1+ (50-10) = 41 ,that means his TLS durability is nearly 80% of his PS durability ,that doesn't even start to make sense ,it isn't a matter of adding ,it is a matter of ratio ,the ratio between his rikudo PS and his rikudo TLS equals the ratio between his ems PS and ems TLS which means his rikudo TLS durability won't be 41 as you think , but it would be 1*(50/10) = 5
With that being said ,the ratio between his ps and TLS Durabilities would be 10/1 whatever the boost sasuke has
So we don't add the gab as you think , which means we can never know his rikudo TLS durability without knowing his ems TLS durability .

TLS=1

RS=50

PS=10

@bold: Your analysis is completely moot since your conclusion is the bold, which is backed by pretty much nothing at all. Sasuke got Naruto's Chakra, and his V3 Susanoo grew in size to rival Naruto's Avatar, and it has stats close to that of his normal EMS PS. Hagoromo's chakra>Naruto's chakra, so yes, his Rikudo V3 Susanoo would be near the level of his EMS PS. Zero evidence from you to prove this wrong.

Raikiri was already going through the path ,if kakashi was faster and physically stronger ,he would have gone through it faster ,not to mention that raikiri didn't take all the 5 seconds but less

Doesn't change the fact that SM Rasengan>>Raikiri.

 

[wael reda]

And why would this be the case?


Except Naruto had all 9 tails, and Sasuke's sword was sheathed, so you have no evidence at all. Lol Naruto blocking Sasuke's sword with his tail doesn't make his tail as strong as Sasuke's sword. That simple.




TLS=1

RS=50

PS=10

@bold: Your analysis is completely moot since your conclusion is the bold, which is backed by pretty much nothing at all. Sasuke got Naruto's Chakra, and his V3 Susanoo grew in size to rival Naruto's Avatar, and it has stats close to that of his normal EMS PS. Hagoromo's chakra>Naruto's chakra, so yes, his Rikudo V3 Susanoo would be near the level of his EMS PS. Zero evidence from you to prove this wrong.





Doesn't change the fact that SM Rasengan>>Raikiri.

Lol,naruto hadn't 9 tails (at least that is what was drawn)


Having more chakra or stronger chakra doesn't make your susano versions bigger ,sasuke just used bigger legged susano ,I amont disagreeing that rikudo sasuke's biju sized legged susano would be close to ems sasuke's PS or even much stronger ,I am disagreeing with your saying that if his PS got stronger by a biju doma then all his Susano versions would would get stronger with the same amount(biju doma ) which means any of his versions would be able to tank biju doma ,with that logic rikudo sasuke TLS would be close to his rikudo PS Lol

If his EMS TLS is 1 and EMS PS is 10 while his RPS is 50 ,then his rikudo TLS would be 5 not 41 ,do you disagree or agree? If you agree then you should agree that we can never know how strong is Rikudo TLS without knowing how strong is EMS TLS


No proof that sm rasengan can destroy something raikiri can't pierce

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol,naruto hadn't 9 tails (at least that is what was drawn)

Except he did. Lol.

Having more chakra or stronger chakra doesn't make your susano versions bigger ,sasuke just used bigger legged susano ,I amont disagreeing that rikudo sasuke's biju sized legged susano would be close to ems sasuke's PS or even much stronger ,I am disagreeing with your saying that if his PS got stronger by a biju doma then all his Susano versions would would get stronger with the same amount(biju doma ) which means any of his versions would be able to tank biju doma ,with that logic rikudo sasuke TLS would be close to his rikudo PS Lol

Fine, I'll dump that logic, but the last statement makes no sense. Why would that mean that his TLS and PS are near each other in power?

If his EMS TLS is 1 and EMS PS is 10 while his RPS is 50 ,then his rikudo TLS would be 5 not 41 ,do you disagree or agree? If you agree then you should agree that we can never know how strong is Rikudo TLS without knowing how strong is EMS TLS

Fine, I'll agree with that. Doesn't really change my argument though. A weaker chakra put EMS Sasuke's V3 Susanoo on par with his PS, meaning Rikudo's chakra would give a boost similar to that, if not more, meaning if Madara had that same chakra he'd have tanked those Bijuu's tail slaps with zero damage.

No proof that sm rasengan can destroy something raikiri can't pierce

Raikiri had almost 5 seconds to pierce through Asura and get to Deva, yet couldn't do so. SM Rasengan obliterated the same Asura Path.