[Discussion] Existence of a God.

[paratise]

Religions might be made up, but beliefs are real.

I mean even if it is baseless and incorrect billions of people shape their lives around the concept of religion/Gods. They build a reality. It is real in a sense. You may be a crazy person who hear voices no one else can but those voices are real to you. And everyone percieves the life from their own windows, not others'. If their windows have God; it is real enough for them.

 

[Prometheus Beta]

I got a question for you. If I create a box. Does that mean that box has a creator? If I create the light bulb does that mean the light bulb has a creator? Then I ask you, WHO created the humans? How did humans come into existence? How did life come into existence? We just magically appeared? on a planet that was coming to the PERFECT temperature, with the PERFECT distance away from the sun, with the PERFECT atmosphere, with the PERFECT oxygen levels? Everything went PERFECTLY fine. Everything went PERFECTLY safe? Everything went PERFECTLY in sequence? with the PERFECT sync? with the PERFECT gravity of the planet? I doubt that there is anything on the physical universe that can create such existence. My question is why is it so hard to not believe in god? Look around you. Everything just miraculously came to be. Our universe, wait why talk about the universe when I can talk about the planet. Oh wait why talk about the planet when I can talk about the human body. Oh why talk about a human body when I can talk about a SINGLE CELL. ANYTHING that HUMANS have made is nothing as close to being as complex as the cell. What is science? Is it a explanations of everything based on what we can see? What we can touch? What we can Hear? What we can smell? What the 5 humans senses sense? That is what science defines. Explaining phenomenon's through the 5 human senses. But most of the stuff we have theories about are not adhering to the 5 human senses.

Heres something for people like you. God tested Humanity. How you say? In the Quran, he says Dont even try to make a human, try to REPLICATE a SINGLE CELL. We have the knowledge, but yet we cant even replicate it? We cant even create something so simple? A single cell that is the is reason why we exist. A cell that contains DNA that is more complex then anything that a human has made. That scientist did a 10 year study on it and when they thought they knew everything about the DNA, they were once again mind blown. To this day they dont know everything about the DNA. So my question to YOU is that PLEASE try to disprove the QURAN by GODS test to humans. Please try to replicate/create a single CELL.

First of all let me make it clear that I have little interest in the abstract variety of this debate, which is a complete and utter red herring: you see, this is a very common theist strategy of always shifting the debate to more tenable forms. For example, it is not that difficult to argue for the existence of a completely abstract creator in the philosophical form of the so called "first cause", divorced from the more specific claims of religion. However, its much, much harder to defend the absurd claims of religions like Islam, e.g. the farcical claim that Allah created that wretched excuse for Bedouin poetry that is the Quran before even creating the universe. Now I don't bother with all those abstract philosophical debates on God but here is a religious individual peddling his religion, a debate I can engage in.

Now Fodder3, if I am not mistaken, according to Islam, more than 14 billion years ago, before (and per cosmology, there is no "before" the big bang anyways, the question might actually even be meaningless since per general relativity, time and therefore - cause and effect - is part of the physical structure of space, which came into being along with the big bang) even creating the universe, Allah, whose magic arse was atop his "throne (kursi)", created a pen and then "commanded" it write out the Quran. So such amazing "decrees" like the one where Mahumit got to marry his adopted son's hot wife (Zaynab bint Jahsh) was created before the creation of the entire universe! Tell me Fodder3, why did the great God decide to dedicate AN ENTIRE CHAPTER on some obscure desert Bedouin called Abu-Lahab (I wonder what relevance the eternal chapter of the Quran, Al-Massad, will have to the humans in the year 4000?). Im not ever going to take the truth value of Islam seriously until you can give me a satisfactory answer to that question.

You see, the great Physicist, and idol of mine, Richard Feynman, chose, above all else, the following reason to reject religion.

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To quote him: "and so altogether I can't believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe at large because they seem to be too simple, too connected, too local, too provincial...", he goes on to impugn Christianity in particular, contrasting its very "local" nature on that physically insignificant rock called planet earth with the size of the universe ("it isn't in proportion", he says). What do you think Richard Feynman would have thought about the claim that God created a chapter on Mr Abu-Lahab in his magic book before he even created the universe?

Now I am going to answer the rhetoric (and that appears to be all you are good at, besides abusing the caps lock button that is) that is your first paragraph - a red herring though it may be, since as I have discussed, abstract issues of design and all that do not corroborate in the slightest the religion of Islam. Let me show you how we Physicists answer all those questions: its called the anthropic principle.

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And what this says is that, intelligent observers can only be found in an environment fine-tuned for life, IPSO FACTO. The fact of the matter is that, there is a lot of different environments out there in the universe: there are doubtless billions of billions of planets, and the absolute, vast majority of them have environments that make it impossible for life to naturally inhabit them.

If God created the universe, he clearly didn't seem to have homo-sapiens in mind for you see, if Fodder3 were to be magically teleported to most of the other planets out there in the universe, he would die within a few seconds in the absolute majority of them (planets with Earth-like conditions are very rare). In fact, Fodder3 would ultimately die in every part of the universe except for a tiny, utterly insignificant compared to the size of the universe but nevertheless special piece of rock called the Earth.. And yet Fodder3 seems to think that the universe is designed for him!


By the way, artificial cells are nothing special.

You must be registered for see links

On a related note, I am proud to say that my country very recently became the first to legalize the so called three-parent baby form of in-vitro fertilisation, in which the mitochondrial DNA - but only the mtDNA and not the nuclear DNA found in the nucleus of cells - of one woman's egg cell are replaced with a donars.

You must be registered for see links

You see, in this "perfect" world God has created, there exists a type of genetic disease (which you cannot control in any way and are simply born with) called mitochondrial disease, caused by mutations in the special type of DNA found in the mitochondria (an organelle of the cell associated with energy production) of those "perfect" egg cells, with people being afflicted with the diseases often ending up with problems in multiple organ systems as they live their lives.

But Scientists defeated Allah some 20 years ago in this game by inventing a way to manipulate his "perfect" creation responsible for this type of disease at the genetic level. And the UK recently legalized the use of this completely artificial genetic manipulation.

And if you still didn't get it Fodder3, the individuals born through this technique have DNA coming from three individuals, something completely unnatural in our species. So yes, we have created life unlike anything found in Allahs natural world. And you better believe that it is going to get much, much worse in the future as genomics continues to make its rapid progress (but this is a long enough post already). We will defeat Allah again and again in your life-time, kid.

 

[Insidious Smile]

You can just ask straightforward if you're clueless on it's meaning.

It's a spiritual saying which refers to the collective consciousness, maybe the field of noetics. Revolving all around the mind's eye.
What separates an individual from anyone else (aside of their physical manifestation) is their ego. So, that oneness is supposedly a vast pool of consciousness (you could compare it to God) and its something you tap into/tune into. And supposedly, according to spiritual teachings, that ego can be tamed to relive the connection between you, nature and other living beings. (meditation or DMT substances)

So, according to that quote; ''I think, therefore I am not. Only when the mind is empty, I am'', an individual will only truly be awake when the mind is empty.

Oh, YowYaw, your humor is unique, maybe ...

You are somewhat correct on the meaning of the sentence, though, one's ego can be controlled.

Adding to the meaning of ''I think, therefore I am not. Only when the mind is empty, I am'':

As you may know, or not, God's name is "I am", and humans (the human race) was created in God's image, we are also one with God.

" I think, therefore I am not " meaning that because you have an ego, you are not "I am" - "Only when the mind is empty, I am" meaning that only when you separate yourself from your ego you are "I am".

So, YoYawn, do you believe in God or not? There is no shame in believing. I don't try to shove my believes down someone else's throat.

 

[YowYan]

Oh, YowYaw, your humor is unique, maybe ...

You are somewhat correct on the meaning of the sentence, though, one's ego can be controlled.

Adding to the meaning of ''I think, therefore I am not. Only when the mind is empty, I am'':

As you may know, or not, God's name is "I am", and humans (the human race) was created in God's image, we are also one with God.

" I think, therefore I am not " meaning that because you have an ego, you are not "I am" - "Only when the mind is empty, I am" meaning that only when you separate yourself from your ego you are "I am".

So, YoYawn, do you believe in God or not? There is no shame in believing. I don't try to shove my believes down someone else's throat.

I am not somewhat correct on its meaning. I'm spot-on. It goes back to the phenomena of the mind's eye. And you just repeated what I already mentioned before; ''So, that oneness is supposedly a vast pool of consciousness (you could compare it to God) and its something you tap into/tune into. '' You don't worship it like an intangible father of mankind, you ARE IT. You are part of it. As in; ''You're not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop.'' Makes more sense if you're capable of thinking.

And how do you know god's name? Did he whisper it in your ear with a moist breath when you were sleeping? Always curious whenever someone talks for god as if a spokesmen.

There is no shame in believing indeed. Although ''Believing'' is useless and puts a halt to mental and spiritual growth. But I have no problem whatsoever with there being a universal force/matrix/prime creator that is the root of creation or w.e. It's just that the degenerate religious interpretation of a god makes no sense altogether. No religious nutter has had contact with 'god' no matter how many of them would like to claim so.

And I used to call myself 'YowYawn' years ago so you're not being original there Lol

 

[Punk Hazard]

The question 'who created god' is a infinite question that will never end. It creates a never-ending loop. Its a illogical and irrational question.


That its the only logical answer to this is that God had no beginning and has no end. He isn't limited by time and space. In the Quran, God states that God has no beginning nor end. He is not like God's creation. In order for someone to claim something in this physical universe, one must observe creation to hypothesize about creation. If the creator isn't like his creation; then how can you hypothesize about the creator when you use creation to create an hypothesis. To observe and to create a hypothesis about something, that thing must be related to whatever you observed. In math we call this, out of domain. Or does not exist within the domain. In science, people must observe[use the five senses] and they create theories about things that is related to what they observed. You cant apply that theory to something that is completely not related to something.

Also let me give you an scenario: you had a task of moving a table, and you knew you could ask an infinite number of people to do it for you. so you would ask someone else to move it for you. that person would ask someone else to move it. that person would then ask someone else to move it. each person would ask someone else and it would carry on forever. at the end the table would never be moved.

Similarly, the fact that there is a creation today, is proof that theres only One Creator. If there was a creator of the creator, then each creator would create another creator, who creates another creator, who would create another creator... and it would carry on forever. there would never be a creation. So because there is a creation that is proof that there is only One Creator who by default must be uncreated.

There is no way to logically reach the conclusion that there is a creator who wasn't created because that is illogical. The root of your claim is that the Universe had to have been created, which would mean it needs a creator. You then choose to believe that this creator isn't bounded by time, and has always existed, it has no creator. But one can just as easily choose to believe that there is no middleman, the Universe is the thing that isn't bounded by time as we know it, the Universe is the thing that had no beginning. That means, at best, God is just as likely as the Big Bang.

 

[Fodder#3]

First of all let me make it clear that I have little interest in the abstract variety of this debate, which is a complete and utter red herring: you see, this is a very common theist strategy of always shifting the debate to more tenable forms. For example, it is not that difficult to argue for the existence of a completely abstract creator in the philosophical form of the so called "first cause", divorced from the more specific claims of religion. However, its much, much harder to defend the absurd claims of religions like Islam, e.g. the farcical claim that Allah created that wretched excuse for Bedouin poetry that is the Quran before even creating the universe. Now I don't bother with all those abstract philosophical debates on God but here is a religious individual peddling his religion, a debate I can engage in.

Now Fodder3, if I am not mistaken, according to Islam, more than 14 billion years ago, before (and per cosmology, there is no "before" the big bang anyways, the question might actually even be meaningless since per general relativity, time and therefore - cause and effect - is part of the physical structure of space, which came into being along with the big bang) even creating the universe, Allah, whose magic arse was atop his "throne (kursi)", created a pen and then "commanded" it write out the Quran. So such amazing "decrees" like the one where Mahumit got to marry his adopted son's hot wife (Zaynab bint Jahsh) was created before the creation of the entire universe! Tell me Fodder3, why did the great God decide to dedicate AN ENTIRE CHAPTER on some obscure desert Bedouin called Abu-Lahab (I wonder what relevance the eternal chapter of the Quran, Al-Massad, will have to the humans in the year 4000?). Im not ever going to take the truth value of Islam seriously until you can give me a satisfactory answer to that question.

First of all, you seem to be misunderstanding or you just googled and copied and pasted. What you are talking about is baseless and not authenticated.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write. The pen wrote. God told the Universe to be created. It was created. How was it created? Accordingly to the Big Bang theory. Once again, its not that hard to grasp this concept, that god is not like his creation. He is not limited to time and space. He has no end nor beginning. Who is Mahumit May I ask? And lets suppose this 'Mahumit' married his adopted son's hot wife, what about it? What's wrong with that? In Islam we dont believe that a adopted son is purely is a son. You can treat him like a son; but he doesn't have the rights of a real/blood related son. Where does it say that Zaynab Bint Jahsh was created before creation? Please provide proof when you state such things. If you don't, its called lying and can considered bashing. Now you talk about the relevance of the chapter of the Quran Al-massad; what are you talking about? Do you mean its meaning? And its relevance to the people at that time? It has a hell load of relevance in that time and to this day. Please explain What you dont understand. You probably don't even know any of these stories. Ill answer all your question once you ACTUAL provide references/sources/and use citation and EXPLAIN your issues. Because you haven't really stated anything. I wont even read the rest of your bs youve wrote. Because just what you have stated above is so poorly explained and stated. If you made this as a humor; well you did make me laugh. I laughed pretty damn hard. Thanks for killing my brain cells. ROFLCOPTER.


Also, please how in the world does artificial cells even sum up to a cell? It can preform one-many. Not all. Therefore it isnt a cell. Can this artificial cell reproduce?

What are you talking about three way parent about? what's the relevance?


You claim that humans defeated God; but how? God tells his people to "saving a human is the same as all of Humanity" and "killing a human is like killing all of humanity". So if Doctors can save someone how is that a bad thing? More importantly how does that "defeat" god? When God tells its people to save what/who ever you can.

 

[Game Of Deities]

look at my username, Lol

but the exitence of god is clearly within our minds when we are born. Even if adults dont tell us anything.

why?, because the only reason we exist is because he exists. Even the atheists belive so .

 

[YowYan]

First of all, you seem to be misunderstanding or you just googled and copied and pasted. What you are talking about is baseless and not authenticated.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write. The pen wrote. God told the Universe to be created. It was created. How was it created? Accordingly to the Big Bang theory. Once again, its not that hard to grasp this concept, that god is not like his creation. He is not limited to time and space. He has no end nor beginning. Who is Mahumit May I ask? And lets suppose this 'Mahumit' married his adopted son's hot wife, what about it? What's wrong with that? In Islam we dont believe that a adopted son is purely is a son. You can treat him like a son; but he doesn't have the rights of a real/blood related son. Where does it say that Zaynab Bint Jahsh was created before creation? Please provide proof when you state such things. If you don't, its called lying and can considered bashing. Now you talk about the relevance of the chapter of the Quran Al-massad; what are you talking about? Do you mean its meaning? And its relevance to the people at that time? It has a hell load of relevance in that time and to this day. Please explain What you dont understand. You probably don't even know any of these stories. Ill answer all your question once you ACTUAL provide references/sources/and use citation and EXPLAIN your issues. Because you haven't really stated anything. I wont even read the rest of your bs youve wrote. Because just what you have stated above is so poorly explained and stated. If you made this as a humor; well you did make me laugh. I laughed pretty damn hard. Thanks for killing my brain cells. ROFLCOPTER.


Also, please how in the world does artificial cells even sum up to a cell? It can preform one-many. Not all. Therefore it isnt a cell. Can this artificial cell reproduce?

What are you talking about three way parent about? what's the relevance?


You claim that humans defeated God; but how? God tells his people to "saving a human is the same as all of Humanity" and "killing a human is like killing all of humanity". So if Doctors can save someone how is that a bad thing? More importantly how does that "defeat" god? When God tells its people to save what/who ever you can.

Spoiler

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[ministerC4]

First of all, you seem to be misunderstanding or you just googled and copied and pasted. What you are talking about is baseless and not authenticated.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write. The pen wrote. God told the Universe to be created. It was created. How was it created? Accordingly to the Big Bang theory. Once again, its not that hard to grasp this concept, that god is not like his creation. He is not limited to time and space. He has no end nor beginning. Who is Mahumit May I ask? And lets suppose this 'Mahumit' married his adopted son's hot wife, what about it? What's wrong with that? In Islam we dont believe that a adopted son is purely is a son. You can treat him like a son; but he doesn't have the rights of a real/blood related son. Where does it say that Zaynab Bint Jahsh was created before creation? Please provide proof when you state such things. If you don't, its called lying and can considered bashing. Now you talk about the relevance of the chapter of the Quran Al-massad; what are you talking about? Do you mean its meaning? And its relevance to the people at that time? It has a hell load of relevance in that time and to this day. Please explain What you dont understand. You probably don't even know any of these stories. Ill answer all your question once you ACTUAL provide references/sources/and use citation and EXPLAIN your issues. Because you haven't really stated anything. I wont even read the rest of your bs youve wrote. Because just what you have stated above is so poorly explained and stated. If you made this as a humor; well you did make me laugh. I laughed pretty damn hard. Thanks for killing my brain cells. ROFLCOPTER.


Also, please how in the world does artificial cells even sum up to a cell? It can preform one-many. Not all. Therefore it isnt a cell. Can this artificial cell reproduce?

What are you talking about three way parent about? what's the relevance?


You claim that humans defeated God; but how? God tells his people to "saving a human is the same as all of Humanity" and "killing a human is like killing all of humanity". So if Doctors can save someone how is that a bad thing? More importantly how does that "defeat" god? When God tells its people to save what/who ever you can.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write.

It is true that God, before time and space, told the pen to write.

This "truth" is a belief... how is there a pen when there is no space?
Why the fuck is there a pen needed exactly? Ink? Clearly written by stone men.

told the pen to write. The pen wrote.

God told the Universe to be created.

Damn, starting to look like the Pen is God.Lol

Please provide proof when you state such things.

Ironically your only "proof" is the thing you're trying to prove.Lol
"Look Judge, you can see that this guy is a thief, I got the papers saying it!"

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

First of all let me make it clear that I have little interest in the abstract variety of this debate, which is a complete and utter red herring: you see, this is a very common theist strategy of always shifting the debate to more tenable forms. For example, it is not that difficult to argue for the existence of a completely abstract creator in the philosophical form of the so called "first cause", divorced from the more specific claims of religion. However, its much, much harder to defend the absurd claims of religions like Islam, e.g. the farcical claim that Allah created that wretched excuse for Bedouin poetry that is the Quran before even creating the universe. Now I don't bother with all those abstract philosophical debates on God but here is a religious individual peddling his religion, a debate I can engage in.

Now Fodder3, if I am not mistaken, according to Islam, more than 14 billion years ago, before (and per cosmology, there is no "before" the big bang anyways, the question might actually even be meaningless since per general relativity, time and therefore - cause and effect - is part of the physical structure of space, which came into being along with the big bang) even creating the universe, Allah, whose magic arse was atop his "throne (kursi)", created a pen and then "commanded" it write out the Quran. So such amazing "decrees" like the one where Mahumit got to marry his adopted son's hot wife (Zaynab bint Jahsh) was created before the creation of the entire universe! Tell me Fodder3, why did the great God decide to dedicate AN ENTIRE CHAPTER on some obscure desert Bedouin called Abu-Lahab (I wonder what relevance the eternal chapter of the Quran, Al-Massad, will have to the humans in the year 4000?). Im not ever going to take the truth value of Islam seriously until you can give me a satisfactory answer to that question.

You see, the great Physicist, and idol of mine, Richard Feynman, chose, above all else, the following reason to reject religion.

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To quote him: "and so altogether I can't believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe at large because they seem to be too simple, too connected, too local, too provincial...", he goes on to impugn Christianity in particular, contrasting its very "local" nature on that physically insignificant rock called planet earth with the size of the universe ("it isn't in proportion", he says). What do you think Richard Feynman would have thought about the claim that God created a chapter on Mr Abu-Lahab in his magic book before he even created the universe?

Now I am going to answer the rhetoric (and that appears to be all you are good at, besides abusing the caps lock button that is) that is your first paragraph - a red herring though it may be, since as I have discussed, abstract issues of design and all that do not corroborate in the slightest the religion of Islam. Let me show you how we Physicists answer all those questions: its called the anthropic principle.

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And what this says is that, intelligent observers can only be found in an environment fine-tuned for life, IPSO FACTO. The fact of the matter is that, there is a lot of different environments out there in the universe: there are doubtless billions of billions of planets, and the absolute, vast majority of them have environments that make it impossible for life to naturally inhabit them.

If God created the universe, he clearly didn't seem to have homo-sapiens in mind for you see, if Fodder3 were to be magically teleported to most of the other planets out there in the universe, he would die within a few seconds in the absolute majority of them (planets with Earth-like conditions are very rare). In fact, Fodder3 would ultimately die in every part of the universe except for a tiny, utterly insignificant compared to the size of the universe but nevertheless special piece of rock called the Earth.. And yet Fodder3 seems to think that the universe is designed for him!


By the way, artificial cells are nothing special.

You must be registered for see links

On a related note, I am proud to say that my country very recently became the first to legalize the so called three-parent baby form of in-vitro fertilisation, in which the mitochondrial DNA - but only the mtDNA and not the nuclear DNA found in the nucleus of cells - of one woman's egg cell are replaced with a donars.

You must be registered for see links

You see, in this "perfect" world God has created, there exists a type of genetic disease (which you cannot control in any way and are simply born with) called mitochondrial disease, caused by mutations in the special type of DNA found in the mitochondria (an organelle of the cell associated with energy production) of those "perfect" egg cells, with people being afflicted with the diseases often ending up with problems in multiple organ systems as they live their lives.

But Scientists defeated Allah some 20 years ago in this game by inventing a way to manipulate his "perfect" creation responsible for this type of disease at the genetic level. And the UK recently legalized the use of this completely artificial genetic manipulation.

And if you still didn't get it Fodder3, the individuals born through this technique have DNA coming from three individuals, something completely unnatural in our species. So yes, we have created life unlike anything found in Allahs natural world. And you better believe that it is going to get much, much worse in the future as genomics continues to make its rapid progress (but this is a long enough post already). We will defeat Allah again and again in your life-time, kid.

I swear you only come on the base if Islam is mentioned.

 

[Disquiet]

I swear you only come on the base if Islam is mentioned.

I'm pretty certain he's Aim64C's alt, although it's not the only thing he comments on.

OT: Back when I was a christian, it had a lot to do with my upbringing. You seem to ignore the effects this can have on one's mind and personality.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

I'm pretty certain he's Aim64C's alt, although it's not the only thing he comments on.

OT: Back when I was a christian, it had a lot to do with my upbringing. You seem to ignore the effects this can have on one's mind and personality.

Lol, Aim64C's alt, it all makes sense now.

 

[Prometheus Beta]

Fodder3, I might reply to that cop-out of a post of yours tomorrow but its past midnight here now and I need to sleep.

I'm pretty certain he's Aim64C's alt, although it's not the only thing he comments on.

OT: Back when I was a christian, it had a lot to do with my upbringing. You seem to ignore the effects this can have on one's mind and personality.

I am a big fan of that very gifted and erudite user here (and no, I actually don't write very lengthy replies on most things except a few topics like Physics, religion etc, if that is what your suspicions are based on - unlike Aim64C who seems to be well read about almost any issue/subject) and we probably share many similar views, especially on Islam (even on that, I am a non-interventionist when it comes to the Islamic world, I just don't want Islam colonizing the western world), but I assure you, I am not Aim64C. If in doubt, ask one of the mods to check my IP and compare it with his, or something.

 

[startup97]

Wow, this thread got wild!

OT: It's all in a matter of faith my friend.

 

[Disquiet]

Fodder3, I might reply to that cop-out of a post of yours tomorrow but its past midnight here now and I need to sleep.



I am a big fan of that very gifted and erudite user here (and no, I actually don't write very lengthy replies on most things except a few topics like Physics, religion etc, if that is what your suspicions are based on - unlike Aim64C who seems to be well read about almost any issue/subject) and we probably share many similar views, especially on Islam (even on that, I am a non-interventionist when it comes to the Islamic world, I just don't want Islam colonizing the western world), but I assure you, I am not Aim64C. If in doubt, ask one of the mods to check my IP and compare it with his, or something.

That's actually quite far from what my suspcions are based on. Well, it's not just that I'm basing it on. You see, I imagine Aim being a troll of some sort. Not trolling just for the fun of it, that'd be disappointng. I believe he takes on different personas to see all the possible ways he can be percieved, or better said, the possible ways ideals can be percieved. Save for a few, he wasn't getting much love propagating such hate against Islam. I'm sure any narcissists and condescendng individual would find it hilarious when another individual opens up to their seemingly hateful philosophies when all they simply did was essentially feed them the same poison just with a sweetener added to it. You take a much more polite approach to topics in general, even your use of "bro" appears to have some kind of manipulative intention (i.e. to blend in and seem more "humanized" versus the monster Aim is perceived as). I find these false personas to be mocking in a way. It's kind of like Sai's smile.

I also first thought his excessive use of hypens was to hide some kind of insecurity (i.e. afraid of being called out for improper use of commans, colons, semicolons, etc.), but the more I read from what I believe to be his alts (you're not the only I suspect of being his), the more it seems like it's to aid him in establishing a distinct posting style and identity.

I know, I haven't said anything that would seem convincing to any outside individual, but I'm not really speaking to them, all that much. You're most likely going to say I'm over-thinking it, but I have over-thought that possibility as well.

I'll end it here. It's extremely off-topic and somewhat bizarre, and the other similarities that I haven't mentioned is going to start being noticed anyways.

PS. There's always proxies/VPNs

PPS. I'm 98% sure

 

[King Kendrick]

God is the only answer ... how do you explain trees and plants huhh ??

 

[Fodder#3]

This "truth" is a belief... how is there a pen when there is no space?
Why the fuck is there a pen needed exactly? Ink? Clearly written by stone men.



Damn, starting to look like the Pen is God.Lol

Ironically your only "proof" is the thing you're trying to prove.Lol
"Look Judge, you can see that this guy is a thief, I got the papers saying it!"

As you dont seem to understand that God is not limited by time and space. He is beyond those domains. Allah Knows everything that will happen. The first thing that He created was the "pen" and He ordered the pen to write. The pen wrote until it had written everything that would happen. And then Allah began to create the universe. All of this was already known to Him before He created it. He does have absolute and total control at all times. There is nothing that happens except that He is in control of if.
There is a mistake in the question: "Free Will." Allah alone, has Free Will, He Wills whatever He likes and it will always happen as He wills. We have something called, "Free choice." The difference is that what Allah "Wills" always happens and what we choose may or may not happen. We are not being judged on the outcome of things, we are being judged on our choices. This means that at the core of everything will always be our intentions. Whatever we intended, is what we will have the reward for. Each person will be judged according to what Allah gave them to work with, how they used it and what they intended to do with it.

As regards the actual "Judgment Day" - Allah tells us that everything we are doing is being recorded and not a single tiny thing escapes from this record. Even an atom's weight of good will be seen on the Day of Judgment and even a single atom's weight of evil will be seen too.

The one who will bring the evidences against us will be ourselves. Our ears, tongue, eyes and all of our bodies will begin to testify against us in front of Allah on the Day of Judgment. None will be oppressed on that Day, none will be falsely accused.

He could have put everyone in their respective places from the very beginning, but the people would complain as to why they were thrown in Hell without being given a chance. This life is exactly that; a chance to prove to ourselves who we really are and what we would really do if we indeed had a free choice.

Allah Knows everything that will happen, but we don't. That is why the test is fair.

The pen was the first thing created. And that pen is not like the pen you and I have. It is beyond our comprehension. It is beyond the human mind's capability to comprehend. What God does, is beyond any of its creation's capability. Its as simple as that.

 

[Fodder#3]

There is no way to logically reach the conclusion that there is a creator who wasn't created because that is illogical. The root of your claim is that the Universe had to have been created, which would mean it needs a creator. You then choose to believe that this creator isn't bounded by time, and has always existed, it has no creator. But one can just as easily choose to believe that there is no middleman, the Universe is the thing that isn't bounded by time as we know it, the Universe is the thing that had no beginning. That means, at best, God is just as likely as the Big Bang.

What do you mean by middleman? I dont understand. As for your first part: that God hadn't been created. That is the only logical answer. Anything else is not. Didnt you read my post? I thought I made clear sense of that. Aside from that, you state that it 'illogical' but provide no sense in your argument. As for whole the Universe that is the thing that had no beginning it did though. The universe had a beginning. The Big Bang clearly states that; with very solid proof. Scientist use the Doppler Effect to trace back to the start of the Universe. And it had a start. It was once a small 'ball' of energy. And suddenly it expanded. How fast did it expand? Very fast. Our galaxy was created in mere seconds[miliseconds it may have been]. This is all mapped out; and even super computers have simulated the Big Bang. So yes, the Universe had a beginning.

 

[Punk Hazard]

What do you mean by middleman? I dont understand. As for your first part: that God hadn't been created. That is the only logical answer. Anything else is not. Didnt you read my post? I thought I made clear sense of that. Aside from that, you state that it 'illogical' but provide no sense in your argument. As for whole the Universe that is the thing that had no beginning it did though. The universe had a beginning. The Big Bang clearly states that; with very solid proof. Scientist use the Doppler Effect to trace back to the start of the Universe. And it had a start. It was once a small 'ball' of energy. And suddenly it expanded. How fast did it expand? Very fast. Our galaxy was created in mere seconds[miliseconds it may have been]. This is all mapped out; and even super computers have simulated the Big Bang. So yes, the Universe had a beginning.

What I'm saying is, if it's acceptable for God to have no beginning, why is not acceptable that the extremely compressed ball of matter that exploded in the big bang to form the universe also didn't have a beginning? Why does THAT need a creator, and God doesn't?

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

That's actually quite far from what my suspcions are based on. Well, it's not just that I'm basing it on. You see, I imagine Aim being a troll of some sort. Not trolling just for the fun of it, that'd be disappointng. I believe he takes on different personas to see all the possible ways he can be percieved, or better said, the possible ways ideals can be percieved. Save for a few, he wasn't getting much love propagating such hate against Islam. I'm sure any narcissists and condescendng individual would find it hilarious when another individual opens up to their seemingly hateful philosophies when all they simply did was essentially feed them the same poison just with a sweetener added to it. You take a much more polite approach to topics in general, even your use of "bro" appears to have some kind of manipulative intention (i.e. to blend in and seem more "humanized" versus the monster Aim is perceived as). I find these false personas to be mocking in a way. It's kind of like Sai's smile.

I also first thought his excessive use of hypens was to hide some kind of insecurity (i.e. afraid of being called out for improper use of commans, colons, semicolons, etc.), but the more I read from what I believe to be his alts (you're not the only I suspect of being his), the more it seems like it's to aid him in establishing a distinct posting style and identity.

I know, I haven't said anything that would seem convincing to any outside individual, but I'm not really speaking to them, all that much. You're most likely going to say I'm over-thinking it, but I have over-thought that possibility as well.

I'll end it here. It's extremely off-topic and somewhat bizarre, and the other similarities that I haven't mentioned is going to start being noticed anyways.

PS. There's always proxies/VPNs

PPS. I'm 98% sure

You remind me of L right now.

Fodder3, I might reply to that cop-out of a post of yours tomorrow but its past midnight here now and I need to sleep.



I am a big fan of that very gifted and erudite user here (and no, I actually don't write very lengthy replies on most things except a few topics like Physics, religion etc, if that is what your suspicions are based on - unlike Aim64C who seems to be well read about almost any issue/subject) and we probably share many similar views, especially on Islam (even on that, I am a non-interventionist when it comes to the Islamic world, I just don't want Islam colonizing the western world), but I assure you, I am not Aim64C. If in doubt, ask one of the mods to check my IP and compare it with his, or something.

Lol, you complimenting him like that makes you more of a suspect.