[Discussion] Hakuba vs Zoro

[Bogard]

Someone who's on the same level as Dellinger was terrified just by feeling Zoro's strength, so I don't get how that point can help you to say that Hakuba is above Zoro. Robin can't stop Zoro as he can overwhelm her with his strength and free himself.

OT: Zoro wins this.

True but the thing with Hakuba is that he got crazy hype and we still don't know his limits

1- A 3years new world supernova(1year more than the worse generation)
2- A rival of the worse generation trying to kill them all
3- Cavendish match Chinjao(someone who gave Luffy a mid-high difficulty fight) and gets a similar portrayal to Luffy during the mini-clash(with Hakuba being 2times stronger)
4- Gets called genius of the sword(with Hakuba being 2times stronger) by a veteran vice-admiral from the war of the best
5- Supra speed in Hakuba mode impressing even a low top tier like Sabo
6- Wiping his block as fast as a yonkou commander(Burgess)
7- Gets a combo move with Luffy [

You must be registered for see links

]
8- Gets the honor to be put alongside Luffy, Law, Zoro on the cover spread [

You must be registered for see links

]
9- Fight the arguably strongest executive(Gladius) alongside minor underlings and is still relatively unharmed
10- After all this, his hype remains intact with him being completely uninjured and the foreshadow around him controlling Hakuba(to satisfy his killing intent) for a major battle

This guy continuously got heavy hype, feats and portrayal during this arc without actually seeing his limits. If that doesn't tell you something, i don't know what to say

 

[Kamui Sama]

We haven't seen Hakuba's limits but we really haven't seen Zoro's either (unless the Fujitora skirmish counts)

As it stands now Zoro should take it mid-high diff

 

[OG sama]

This is what someone with only straight forward reading will say. When i read the manga however, i look the underneath of the underneath and like i've said, when you re-read the entire dressrosa once again, Hakuba's hype and portrayal is currently above Zoro's. It may change in the future, but currently Hakuba is written as a stronger character

How is his portrayal above Zoros? When he currently isn't doing anything, and Zoro always fights the second strongest. Hakuba hasn't shown anything putting him above Zoro. His hype is nothing, you keep relying on it as if its all he has. His feats don't put him on the level of the M3, his hype of blitzing fodder is irrelevant. And him being a three year pirate is irrelevant as well. Considering he himself admitted the SN took his fame. Pica has shown to be the strongest out of the other Top executives and Zoro hasn't shown to be worried at all. While Hakuba got caught in his tracks. His hype is no different from king Elizabellos king punch, its just hype nothing else.

Not trying to be mean but I usually agree with you. But you almost sound close minded when it comes to Hakuba.

 

[A v i]

True but the thing with Hakuba is that he got crazy hype and we still don't know his limits

1- A 3years new world supernova(1year more than the worse generation)
2- A rival of the worse generation trying to kill them all.

These two points are as good as useless. Experience means almost nothing in the world of OP.

3- Cavendish match Chinjao(someone who gave Luffy a mid-high difficulty fight) and gets a similar portrayal to Luffy during the mini-clash(with Hakuba being 2times stronger)

It was just a brief clash, we can't decide his strength based on that. He was having problems to deal with Gladius and even got some help from Bartho. From what we have seen only thing we can say for sure is that he's a bit stronger than Gladius in base.

4- Gets called genius of the sword(with Hakuba being 2times stronger) by a veteran vice-admiral from the war of the best.

Even pre-PS Zoro was considered to be a highly skilled swordsman.

5- Supra speed in Hakuba mode impressing even a low top tier like Sabo

I don't remember Sabo getting impressed by looking at his speed. For all we know, Even Robin who can't follow the movements of people of tontatta can follow his movements which means that his speed isn't as great as we think.

6- Wiping his block as fast as a yonkou commander(Burgess)

Everyone in his block are nothing more than fodders.

7- Gets a combo move with Luffy [

You must be registered for see links

]
8- Gets the honor to be put alongside Luffy, Law, Zoro on the cover spread [

You must be registered for see links

]
9- Fight the arguably strongest executive(Gladius) alongside minor underlings and is still relatively unharmed
10- After all this, his hype remains intact with him being completely uninjured and the foreshadow around him controlling Hakuba(to satisfy his killing intent) for a major battle

This guy continuously got heavy hype, feats and portrayal during this arc without actually seeing his limits. If that doesn't tell you something, i don't know what to say

I don't get how these points can actually help you to support the claim of his being stronger than Zoro.


Zoro is physically far stronger than him and if Robin can follow his movements then so can Zoro which means that he gets beaten by Zoro.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

These two points are as good as useless. Experience means almost nothing in the world of OP.



It was just a brief clash, we can't decide his strength based on that. He was having problems to deal with Gladius and even got some help from Bartho. From what we have seen only thing we can say for sure is that he's a bit stronger than Gladius in base.



Even pre-PS Zoro was considered to be a highly skilled swordsman.



I don't remember Sabo getting impressed by looking at his speed. For all we know, Even Robin who can't follow the movements of people of tontatta can follow his movements which means that his speed isn't as great as we think.




Everyone in his block are nothing more than fodders.



I don't get how these points can actually help you to support the claim of his being stronger than Zoro.

How is base Cavendish stronger than Gladius? Gladius is stronger than base Cavendish.

 

[A v i]

How is base Cavendish stronger than Gladius? Gladius is stronger than base Cavendish.

Cavendish wasn't going all out against Gladius IMO. He cares a lot about his beauty, that's why he was hesitating to fight him head on.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Hakuba solos GG

 

[Bogard]

These two points are as good as useless. Experience means almost nothing in the world of OP.

It wasn't to show his experience but the hype Oda created around him

It was just a brief clash, we can't decide his strength based on that. He was having problems to deal with Gladius and even got some help from Bartho. From what we have seen only thing we can say for sure is that he's a bit stronger than Gladius in base.

Yes it was a brief clash, but a brief clash where both used name attacks(so enough strength in their arsenal) and it ended up equal. Similarly, Luffy's gear second move couldn't scratch the same head despite himself saying he hit him "hard". Cavendish even lifted him in the air with one hand and the observers around said they were "monsters" with Chinjao going out of his way to compliment his strength(as well as Luffy). Not saying however that we can exactly rate his level based on it, but it's just to show that Oda portrayed Cavendish to be around Chinjao's level of strength, now where exactly around is the thing we don't know. I don't think the instance against Gladius prove that much as well considering they never really engaged each other in a 1 on 1. Always interferences here and there, not helping to accurately judge, about the level of strength he was displaying. But we do know however that he left the fight relatively unharmed. So he can easily range from slightly above Gladius to even more than that in base for all we know

Even pre-PS Zoro was considered to be a highly skilled swordsman.

True, but this time the hype comes from a veteran vice-admiral(Issho's dressrosa right hand man), which is pretty telling in my opinion

I don't remember Sabo getting impressed by looking at his speed. For all we know, Even Robin who can't follow the movements of people of tontatta can follow his movements which means that his speed isn't as great as we think.

Here:

You must be registered for see links

He implied his speed was even more impressive than the rumors. For the Hakuba-Robin matter, things you must take into consideration

1- Dwarves are tiny and they were inside a flower field blocking eye sight. It's for that reason Robin had to use multiple hands to catch one. Hakuba on the other side has human being size(so clearly visible)
2- Speed is useless against Robin's ability. As long as she perceive something even for a simple glimpse, she can imagine hands on the target and it will block him. It wasn't really a mark against him in my opinion
3- She was at a mountain range distance from him. Notice that Luffy needed Bartolomeo's stairs to cover the distance from the 3rd to 4th level of the flower hill and it still took him some time. Robin as well was climbing it since a long while, yet Hakuba crossed the same distance close to instantly
4- He was running straight up the wall vertically and against the gravity. His speed was probably much slower than usual

Everyone in his block are nothing more than fodders.

You realise that the admiral(who was in his block as well as multiple others) is one of the only one left standing among the alliance right? Not saying he is particularly strong, but he isn't that weak either, probably one of the strongest coloseum fighters outside the most obvious ones(Bartolomeo and co)

I don't get how these points can actually help you to support the claim of his being stronger than Zoro.

Well i'm trying to say that Cavendish is portrayed to be close to a regular Monster trio level fighter, so Hakuba who is 2times stronger should at the very least be above Zoro

Zoro is physically far stronger than him and if Robin can follow his movements then so can Zoro which means that he gets beaten by Zoro.

Robin caught Hakuba due to her ability, not because of a particular speed. It's easier for her to do it than Zoro. You realise Robin caught a dwarf in an instant when it took like forever for Zoro to catch another(Wicca) right? It's just an ability contrast. I agree Zoro is physically stronger though, but he is physically stronger than Law as well. Doesn't make him overall stronger

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

It wasn't to show his experience but the hype Oda created around him

Yes it was a brief clash, but a brief clash where both used name attacks(so enough strength in their arsenal) and it ended up equal. Similarly, Luffy's gear second move couldn't scratch the same head despite himself saying he hit him "hard". Cavendish even lifted him in the air with one hand and the observers around said they were "monsters" with Chinjao going out of his way to compliment his strength(as well as Luffy). Not saying however that we can exactly rate his level based on it, but it's just to show that Oda portrayed Cavendish to be around Chinjao's level of strength, now where exactly around is the thing we don't know. I don't think the instance against Gladius prove that much as well considering they never really engaged each other in a 1 on 1. Always interferences here and there, not helping to accurately judge, about the level of strength he was displaying. But we do know however that he left the fight relatively unharmed. So he can easily range from slightly above Gladius to even more

Your logic at the end makes no sense. Gladius wasn't damaged by Cavendish either, and Gladius almost killed Cavendish and Barto had to save Cavendish. He is not above Gladius.

 

[mishoa]

There's not enough information to say either way yet, Zoro fanboys need to face reality.

 

[OG sama]

There's not enough information to say either way yet, Zoro fanboys need to face reality.

Dude the feats are there. Based off what has been shown, Hakuba is not stronger than Zoro. Only close minded people will ignore the obvious, Zoro is fighting a Top executive, most likely the strongest after Vergo. While Hakuba hasn't beat anyone impressive, and actually got caught in his tracks by Robin, who probably can't beat Diamante. Couple that with the fact that Cavendish is jealous of the SN anyway, plus the fact that Zoro always fights the second strongest. And the only logical thing you can say is that Zoro is stronger.

 

[chopstickchakra]

True but the thing with Hakuba is that he got crazy hype and we still don't know his limits

1- A 3years new world supernova(1year more than the worse generation)
2- A rival of the worse generation trying to kill them all
3- Cavendish match Chinjao(someone who gave Luffy a mid-high difficulty fight) and gets a similar portrayal to Luffy during the mini-clash(with Hakuba being 2times stronger)
4- Gets called genius of the sword(with Hakuba being 2times stronger) by a veteran vice-admiral from the war of the best
5- Supra speed in Hakuba mode impressing even a low top tier like Sabo
6- Wiping his block as fast as a yonkou commander(Burgess)
7- Gets a combo move with Luffy [

You must be registered for see links

]
8- Gets the honor to be put alongside Luffy, Law, Zoro on the cover spread [

You must be registered for see links

]
9- Fight the arguably strongest executive(Gladius) alongside minor underlings and is still relatively unharmed
10- After all this, his hype remains intact with him being completely uninjured and the foreshadow around him controlling Hakuba(to satisfy his killing intent) for a major battle

This guy continuously got heavy hype, feats and portrayal during this arc without actually seeing his limits. If that doesn't tell you something, i don't know what to say

1. How long he's been there is irrelevant, that's just timing, now if he manages to stay there longer that's a feat.
2. Just because he wants to kill them doesn't mean he can/will. He can't kill Luffy, he can't kill Law, Kidd, Killer or Zoro. Most likely can't kill X Drake or Hawkins.
3. Cavendish's sword was being bent by Chinjao's head, Luffy changed it's shape and Sai bent it, both of them are stronger and more impressive than Cavendish when it comes to Don Chinjao being the grade.
4.&5. Nothing to say, those are good hype ups.
6. He had the weakest block.
7. That doesn't mean he's on Zoro's level, if anything he's on Enies Lobby level by that logic because that's when Zoro did a team move with Luffy.
8. Nothing to say.
9. And by what standards are you determining Gladius is the strongest exec? You said Dellinger was high tier as well, yet Zoro kicked him away like nothing.
10. Hakuba will be fully controlled the next time we see him which will most likely be the next big fight.

 

[Bogard]

Your logic at the end makes no sense. Gladius wasn't damaged by Cavendish either, and Gladius almost killed Cavendish and Barto had to save Cavendish. He is not above Gladius.

He never got the chance to go all out on Gladius to begin with. Only a close minded dude can't see it

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

He never got the chance to go all out on Gladius to begin with. Only a close minded dude can't see it

He did, there's no proof that he hasn't been going all out. Until he shows feats that put him above Gladius, Gladius should remain stronger. He had no reason to not go all out while Gladius was inflating the ground around him for Punk Rock Fest (and no, Gladius's 10-15 mooks did not hold off Cavendish).

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

1. How long he's been there is irrelevant, that's just timing, now if he manages to stay there longer that's a feat.
2. Just because he wants to kill them doesn't mean he can/will. He can't kill Luffy, he can't kill Law, Kidd, Killer or Zoro. Most likely can't kill X Drake or Hawkins.
3. Cavendish's sword was being bent by Chinjao's head, Luffy changed it's shape and Sai bent it, both of them are stronger and more impressive than Cavendish when it comes to Don Chinjao being the grade.
4.&5. Nothing to say, those are good hype ups.
6. He had the weakest block.
7. That doesn't mean he's on Zoro's level, if anything he's on Enies Lobby level by that logic because that's when Zoro did a team move with Luffy.
8. Nothing to say.
9. And by what standards are you determining Gladius is the strongest exec? You said Dellinger was high tier as well, yet Zoro kicked him away like nothing.
10. Hakuba will be fully controlled the next time we see him which will most likely be the next big fight.

8. Ideo was also put on that cover spread, so I guess he's on Luffy's level as well. T Bogard is wrong about that one.
9. He is the strongest Executive. Don't believe me, then go reread chapter 772 and chapter 773.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. How long he's been there is irrelevant, that's just timing, now if he manages to stay there longer that's a feat.
2. Just because he wants to kill them doesn't mean he can/will. He can't kill Luffy, he can't kill Law, Kidd, Killer or Zoro. Most likely can't kill X Drake or Hawkins.
3. Cavendish's sword was being bent by Chinjao's head, Luffy changed it's shape and Sai bent it, both of them are stronger and more impressive than Cavendish when it comes to Don Chinjao being the grade.
4.&5. Nothing to say, those are good hype ups.
6. He had the weakest block.
7. That doesn't mean he's on Zoro's level, if anything he's on Enies Lobby level by that logic because that's when Zoro did a team move with Luffy.
8. Nothing to say.
9. And by what standards are you determining Gladius is the strongest exec? You said Dellinger was high tier as well, yet Zoro kicked him away like nothing.
10. Hakuba will be fully controlled the next time we see him which will most likely be the next big fight.

Almost perfect response, I think Gladius is the strongest non-seat exec too

 

[Anduril]

Zoro low diffs. The only point to consider is Hakuba's speed. If robin can see past that speed, then zoro can as well.

 

[xanonymosx]

Zoro low diffs. The only point to consider is Hakuba's speed. If robin can see past that speed, then zoro can as well.

to be fair he was running from a long distance if robin was close i doubt she will hve the time to react

 

[Anduril]

to be fair he was running from a long distance if robin was close i doubt she will hve the time to react

Dude rebecca saw past that speed at close range lol

 

[xanonymosx]

Dude rebecca saw past that speed at close range lol

rebeeca (coo) barley doodged one slash after that hakuba didnt bother, are you saying rebeeca would dodge all his attacks if it was one on one ? ofc not she would get cut by the second or third slash
some people were overrating his speed before that robin scene but what is worse is that all people underrated his speed after