A plothole, inconsistency or retcon?

What could Madara not recognizing Naruto or Sasuke's chakra imply?

  • Plothole

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Inconsistency

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • signs of a retcon

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • different chakra compositions

    Votes: 9 64.3%
  • other

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • nothing

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

SkyGodHorus

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While I was continuing to write my fanfiction, and trying to find more plot devices and characterizations to relate Madara more to Naruto, this more or less just popped into my head while I was rewriting on how the two met or would later meet again where Obito and the Gedo Mazou were. I was trying to think of a line Madara could fetch such as, "This chakra is..Hashirama's? It's impossible..he even appears to show the same bravery and foolishness as him..Perhaps an heir?" "Who or what are you, yellow-haired brat?" Doesn't it seem strange that Madara was able to sense Hashirama's chakra, but could not sense that Naruto and Sasuke possessed their chakras as well?

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Lightbringer

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Naruto didn't have Hashirama's chakra. He was Ashura's transmigrant; he only had his soul within him, not the chakra.
 

Angelic.

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you mean ashura stuff? idk. its not the same chakra
he understood he and sasuke shared a connection but didnt know why.
 

SkyGodHorus

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Naruto didn't have Hashirama's chakra. He was Ashura's transmigrant; he only had his soul within him, not the chakra.

Are there any statements in the manga that can support this?

Saying he is not Hashirama's transmigrant and only Ashura's makes no sense, because Hashirama was Ashura too lols.
 

Loki d

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you mean ashura stuff? idk. its not the same chakra
he understood he and sasuke shared a connection but didnt know why.

It was something he couldn't comprehend that's all
 

The Necromancer

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Naruto didn't have Hashirama's chakra. He was Ashura's transmigrant; he only had his soul within him, not the chakra.

This... U_U

Are there any statements in the manga that can support this?

Saying he is not Hashirama's transmigrant and only Ashura's makes no sense, because Hashirama was Ashura too lols.

You clearly don't have a firm grasp on the concepts of Transmigration.
 

Ryūkai1

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Are there any statements in the manga that can support this?

Saying he is not Hashirama's transmigrant and only Ashura's makes no sense, because Hashirama was Ashura too lols.

It actually does make sense

What you're saying is like Avatar, as in the current avatar has all the previous past lives

Here in Naruto, Naruto doesn't have the souls of Hashirama and the other transmigrants. He only has Ashura's soul transmigrated into him

That is why Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's chakra. (If he did, Naruto also would've had Wood Style, so that obviously proves your point wrong)
 

Conspirator.

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Being a reincarnation of a transmigrant, does not mean that the chakra signatures are identical. You have Ashura/Indra's soul within you, and it affects your power, but the way it affects your chakra signature is obviously different from reincarnation to reincarnation.
 

Lightbringer

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Are there any statements in the manga that can support this?

Saying he is not Hashirama's transmigrant and only Ashura's makes no sense, because Hashirama was Ashura too lols.


That doesn't mean they have the same chakra. Naruto has Uzumaki and Namikaze chakra mixed in with Ashura's. It formed its own unique chakra, just like every other individual.
 

SkyGodHorus

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This... U_U

That statement is a fallacy. Hagoromo himself stated Madara manifested his rinnegan and the six paths chakra by combining the chakras of both sons, which were in Hashirama and Madara, and then Naruto and Sasuke.

You clearly don't have a firm grasp on the concepts of Transmigration.

Nope, just reading, comprehension and logic. :) Your subjective, unfounded or explained view of transmigration is irrelevant.

It actually does make sense

What you're saying is like Avatar, as in the current avatar has all the previous past lives

If you mean last air bender, this is a different series written by a different author. You may find similarities, but they are neither the same story nor universe. And doesn't that sound a bit farfetched and gimmicky? I mean, if you possessed the same lives and powers of the previous ones, shouldn't that make you godly and possessing countless powers?

Here in Naruto, Naruto doesn't have the souls of Hashirama and the other transmigrants. He only has Ashura's soul transmigrated into him

Sigh...I'm not talking about souls. Souls were not mentioned a single time in my op. I was referring to chakra, and based on Hagoromo's statements, logic suggests that Madara should have recognized Naruto and Sasuke's chakra natures.

That is why Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's chakra. (If he did, Naruto also would've had Wood Style, so that obviously proves your point wrong)

When was it stated Naruto didn't have it? Not using it and not having it are two different things. It could be dormant like the sharingan or other kekkei genki, taking on a different form or Naruto may simply not being using it after the end of the manga.

Being a reincarnation of a transmigrant, does not mean that the chakra signatures are identical.

According to Hagoromo, they had the same chakras.

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You have Ashura/Indra's soul within you, and it affects your power, but the way it affects your chakra signature is obviously different from reincarnation to reincarnation.

Do you have anything to support this?

Naruto has Uzumaki and Namikaze chakra mixed in with Ashura's. It formed its own unique chakra, just like every other individual.

That sounds a bit more reasonable and is one of the solutions I was thinking of. However, that would also include Kurama's chakra. And Madara not recognizing that in their first encounter, especially when it was visible seemed a bit odd as well.
 
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Lightbringer

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That sounds a bit more reasonable and is one of the solutions I was thinking of. However, that would also include Kurama's chakra. And Madara not recognizing that in their first encounter, especially when it was visible seemed a bit odd as well.

Kyuubi wasn't giving Naruto chakra when they first fought. He wouldn't be able to sense it.
 

Ryūkai1

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If you mean last air bender, this is a different series written by a different author. You may find similarities, but they are neither the same story nor universe. And doesn't that sound a bit farfetched and gimmicky? I mean, if you possessed the same lives and powers of the previous ones, shouldn't that make you godly and possessing countless powers?



Sigh...I'm not talking about souls. Souls were not mentioned a single time in my op. I was referring to chakra, and based on Hagoromo's statements, logic suggests that Madara should have recognized Naruto and Sasuke's chakra natures.



When was it stated Naruto didn't have it? Not using it and not having it are two different things. It could be dormant like the sharingan or other kekkei genki, taking on a different form or Naruto may simply not being using it after the end of the manga.

Ok, for one, I was comparing what you believe to Avatar. In no way was I saying they are in the same universe, obviously they are in different universes and made by different people.

Two, ok, I meant to say that he does not have the chakra of Hashirama, just of Ashura

Three... -_- really

I get that you're just trying to troll, but c'mon man. You were successful though in rustling my jimmies a bit. But in the end, you're still wrong in believing Naruto has Hashirama's chakra
 

End of Days

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Madara is not a sensor, Powerful chakras can be sensed by normal people also.

Sakura sensing 6 tails chakra
Suigetsu, sasuke sensing Naruto's chakra
etc

Madara would be familiar with Hashirama's chakra, it has been compared to kyuubi's chakra a few times

In any case the chakra that travels seems too small to be sensed or only other transmigrants can sense it, like Naruto did it in the kage summit.

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SkyGodHorus

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Kyuubi wasn't giving Naruto chakra when they first fought. He wouldn't be able to sense it.

Does it really matter? Wasn't it stated the kyuubi seal leaked and mixed kurama's chakra with Naruto's throughout his life?
 

SkyGodHorus

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Two, ok, I meant to say that he does not have the chakra of Hashirama, just of Ashura

Which has no basis.

I get that you're just trying to troll, but c'mon man. You were successful though in rustling my jimmies a bit.

Call me a troll again and you'll be derepped and reported. I'm not in the mood for that garbage, and if you think I'm "trolling," by all means, test me and see what happens.

But in the end, you're still wrong in believing Naruto has Hashirama's chakra

If this is true, either find evidence to support yourself as I have or beat it.
 
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Lightbringer

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Does it really matter? Wasn't it stated the kyuubi seal leaked and mixed kurama's chakra with Naruto's throughout his life?

No I don't recall that. Even if it were true, Madara didn't have his rinnegan active at that time either. So his sensing ability was turned off and there were also a thousand other shinobi present.
 

SkyGodHorus

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No I don't recall that. Even if it were true, Madara didn't have his rinnegan active at that time either. So his sensing ability was turned off and there were also a thousand other shinobi present.

I can't find a link for it but I believe either Jiraiya or Minato stated it in either Orochimaru's Rebellion, The Search for Tsunade or the Pein Invasion arcs.

Technically, the sharingan can see chakra compositions, just not really chakra networks like Byakugan or Rinnegan. Sasuke showed this in his fight with Deidara. And Madara did activate Rinnegan before Kabuto told him Naruto was Kurama's jinchuriki. He even tried to summon Kurama when Naruto was next to him before Kabuto said a word about it.
 
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Kai NB

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Madara didn't sense Naruto and Sasuke's chakra cause they do not have Hashirama and Madara's chakra respectively

The only thing that related them to each other was Asura and Indra's soul. Hashirama had his own unique chakra, as did Naruto. Madara had his own unique chakra as did Sasuke

Ashura's soul simply moved from Hashi to Naruto, not his chakra. Indra's soul moved from Madara to Sasuke, not his chakra.

If that were the case, Madara would've thought that Sasuke had the same chakra as him, but the only thing he said was that they shared some connection. It would've been clear they share the same chakra if Madara said, he seems to have the same chakra as me, but he just said a connection. This connection was Indra's soul transmigrated between them.


So, no, Naruto and Sasuke did not share the same chakra as Hashi and Madara
 
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Lightbringer

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I can't find a link for it but I believe either Jiraiya or Minato stated it in either the Search for Tsunade arc or the Pein Invasion arc.

Technically, the sharingan can see chakra compositions, just not really chakra networks like Byakugan or Rinnegan. Sasuke showed this in his fight with Deidara. And Madara did activate Rinnegan before Kabuto told him Naruto was Kurama's jinchuriki. He even tried to summon Kurama when Naruto was next to him before Kabuto said a word about it.

Sharingan can see chakra natures, I doubt it can sense a person's identity like the Byakugan.

Well, like I said. There were a thousand shinobi present and the Kyuubi hasn't given Naruto chakra at that point. I don't remember ever hearing that it leaked.

It only leaked when Naruto became angry and subconsciously unsealed it.
 
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