Hokage Kakashi vs Raikage Darui!

[Apêx1]

Same bodies. Limited chakra. Limited jutsu.

Says it right there.

Are you that dense? Grasping at straws, Lol. Same bodies, yes. However limited chakra that is passed over to the 'same body' is small, so in proportion the jutsu and strength are limited.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Are you that dense? Grasping at straws, Lol. Same bodies, yes. However limited chakra that is passed over to the 'same body' is small, so in proportion the jutsu and strength are limited.

Same bodies. So they have the same reaction speed. The jutsu they can use is limited due to limited chakra as itachi clearly points out.

The only one dense is you. Whether it was is real body or not he couldn't even finish his thoughts in the face of 6 gate guy.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Still more impressive than 6th gate Gai and V1 Bee though.

The panels you linked prove absolutely nothing about Gai and Bee being faster than Ay. When you can show me some scans that show V1 Bee and 6th Gate guy preforming better movement speed feats than V1 Ay then we can really get down to business. If you can't provide those proofs then everything you've posted is just gas.

Be in denial. I'm not gonna repeat myself. Unless u bring somthing to the table that makes v1 ay faster than 6 gate guy or v1 bee.

 

[Bronze]

Kakashi, high difficulty.

 

[LuckyMan]

Be in denial. I'm not gonna repeat myself. Unless u bring somthing to the table that makes v1 ay faster than 6 gate guy or v1 bee.

L0L I'm not in denial bro I just want your scans to prove what your stating and so far they don't.

You linked of scan of Bee blocking a punch from Ay. How does this make Bee faster than V1 Ay? Hmm?

The second scan was of Bee overpowering Ay with his Lariat. How does that make Bee faster than V1 Ay? Hmm?

You then linked a scan of Bee knocking Ay out the way of Minatos attack. How does that make Bee faster? Hmm?

You're dancing around my questions without answering them then saying I'm in denial? Lol You're the one in denial if you can't answer my questions because its either you can't or you don't want to, which still makes you in denial.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

L0L I'm not in denial bro I just want your scans to prove what your stating and so far they don't.

But they do.

You linked of scan of Bee blocking a punch from Ay. How does this make Bee faster than V1 Ay? Hmm?

That punch wasn't aimed for him he moved faster ay and blocked his punch despite not even being in that area.

The second scan was of Bee overpowering Ay with his Lariat. How does that make Bee faster than V1 Ay? Hmm?

that's bee out muscling him. Which was one of my claims if you actually read it.

You then linked a scan of Bee knocking Ay out the way of Minatos attack. How does that make Bee faster? Hmm?

Because he reacted where ay couldn't. Despite ay moving top speed.

You're dancing around my questions without answering them then saying I'm in denial? Lol You're the one in denial if you can't answer my questions because its either you can't or you don't want to, which still makes you in denial.

I answered your question. The scans are proof. Now please provide scans of ay being faster than v1 bee or 6 gate guy.

 

[DHOH]

Hokage kakashi have no place being in the same thread sa Darui.. Kakashi admitted that he couldn't use Rakiri it bout sharingan.. So no Rakiri, Sharingan, or MS. Kakashi is easily defeated..

 

[LuckyMan]

That punch wasn't aimed for him he moved faster ay and blocked his punch despite not even being in that area.

Your comparing the speed of Ays punch to Bees shunshin or in other words, fight speed versus movement speed. Invalid comparison and is dismissed.

that's bee out muscling him. Which was one of my claims if you actually read it.

And its not relevant to the discussion.

Because he reacted where ay couldn't. Despite ay moving top speed.

He was in mid shunshin and its not easy stopping correctly and controlling your movements, like Naruto found out when he first achieved KCM.

I answered your question. The scans are proof. Now please provide scans of ay being faster than v1 bee or 6 gate guy.

They were not in similar situations to directly compare their speeds but Ays feats are better. V1 Ay is equal to KCM Naruto (without Flash Shunshin ofc) and 6th Gai is not on KCM Naruto level, at all.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Your comparing the speed of Ays punch to Bees shunshin or in other words, fight speed versus movement speed. Invalid comparison and is dismissed.

irrelevant fight and movement speed go hand in hand.

And its not relevant to the discussion.

it was one of the points I brought up.

He was in mid shunshin and its not easy stopping correctly and controlling your movements, like Naruto found out when he first achieved KCM.

Him being mid sunshin is irrelevant since despite not slowing down whatsoever both minato and bee moved faster than him, who in comparison looked as if he wasn't moving at all.

They were not in similar situations to directly compare their speeds but Ays feats are better. V1 Ay is equal to KCM Naruto (without Flash Shunshin ofc) and 6th Gai is not on KCM Naruto level, at all.

v1 ay is no where near kcm naruto, he has to shunshin just to keep up with naruto's standard foot speed. V1 ay is slower than ms sasuke.

 

[Apêx1]

Same bodies. So they have the same reaction speed. The jutsu they can use is limited due to limited chakra as itachi clearly points out.

The only one dense is you. Whether it was is real body or not he couldn't even finish his thoughts in the face of 6 gate guy.

Lol, that's not how it works buddy. Kisame clearly reacted to Gai's normal speed by swinging his sword. That reaction was dodged due to the 30% speed it was going at, since 30% strength of body means 30% capability of moving the same mass at the same speed. He couldn't stop Gai's kick, which can create such immense friction with the air that he starts producing fireballs. Not reacting to that is not suggesting anything whatsoever, since Gai's striking speed>v2 Ay's and v2 Bee's, since their striking speed isn't impressive in the first place. Minato's striking speed is 100 times slower than his Shunshin; fact. Striking speed and movement speed don't go hand in hand, don't know where you got this fallacy from but if you want it to be considered, make an actual manga argument (impossible because it's a retarded claim). Gai's movement speed however, is not. So your whole comparison goes down the drain.

And why are we even debating this? Because clearly Gai only opened the 6th Gate here.

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Him having a shroud before is none of my concern, because he clearly said the 6th Gate: Open at a later point despite having had the shroud the whole time, meaning it wasn't the 6th gate, or it wasn't activated. Next page we clearly see Gai hit his opponent a few moments ago whereas Kakashi's Raikiri hasn't reached its opponent yet. So clearly, you're the only dense guy here.

 

[LuckyMan]

irrelevant fight and movement speed go hand in hand.

Him being mid sunshin is irrelevant since despite not slowing down whatsoever both minato and bee moved faster than him, who in comparison looked as if he wasn't moving at all.

v1 ay is no where near kcm naruto, he has to shunshin just to keep up with naruto's standard foot speed. V1 ay is slower than ms sasuke.

Lol

Fight speed and movement speed do go hand in hand but not exactly the way you are putting it. Bee coming to block Ays punch does not mean he can beat V1 Ay in a race, at all. Tobirama was able to tag Jubito at least once while Naruto was blitzed and couldn't react at all, but that doesn't mean Tobirama beats him in a race, in a situation where they have to get from point A to point B with shunshin, foot speed etc. This is very simple but since you're pretending like you don't understand it I can only assume you've conceded at this point.

Your second point of Bee is irrelevant and I'm not entertaining it because your saying Base Bee is faster than Ays top speed now, which we both know is not the case, at all.

How is he no where near KCM when he countered his shunshin escapes several times before the flash shunshin? How is he no where near KCM Naruto when Naruto barely evaded his top speed? Me must have very different definitions of "no where near"

So V1 Ay is slower than MS Sasuke right? You're grasping at straws now buddy and its real bad. So let me sum up the logic you're using.

>You think movement speed equals fight speed. Since Bee blocked V1 Ay punch, he must be faster than him.
>You say MS Sasuke is faster than V1 Ay, despite everything in the manga completely contradicting it.
>Kakashi ran in and blocked Chidori from Sasuke killing Sakura. I guess he is faster than MS Sasuke, so hes also faster than V1 Ay
>Base Naruto swooped in and saved Sakura from Sasukes kunai. When I use your logic, this means Base Naruto is faster than MS Sasuke and Kakashi, so hes also faster than V1 Ay.

You really want to continue down this path bro?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Lol, that's not how it works buddy. Kisame clearly reacted to Gai's normal speed by swinging his sword. That reaction was dodged due to the 30% speed it was going at, since 30% strength of body means 30% capability of moving the same mass at the same speed. He couldn't stop Gai's kick, which can create such immense friction with the air that he starts producing fireballs. Not reacting to that is not suggesting anything whatsoever, since Gai's striking speed>v2 Ay's and v2 Bee's, since their striking speed isn't impressive in the first place. Minato's striking speed is 100 times slower than his Shunshin; fact. Striking speed and movement speed don't go hand in hand, don't know where you got this fallacy from but if you want it to be considered, make an actual manga argument (impossible because it's a retarded claim). Gai's movement speed however, is not. So your whole comparison goes down the drain.

THAT IS HOW IT WORKS. The only thing that's inferior is the chakra as he clearly said. With limited chakra they can't use all their techniques.

And why are we even debating this? Because clearly Gai only opened the 6th Gate here.

Spoiler

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Him having a shroud before is none of my concern, because he clearly said the 6th Gate: Open at a later point despite having had the shroud the whole time, meaning it wasn't the 6th gate, or it wasn't activated. Next page we clearly see Gai hit his opponent a few moments ago whereas Kakashi's Raikiri hasn't reached its opponent yet. So clearly, you're the only dense guy here.

Whether or not guy opened it on the approach is irrelevant since kakashi was the first one to land the hit. He's the one wearing a glove on his arm.

@guru Laghima
it does since neither is using st techniques. Base killer bee's shunshin feats at dragon ravine shit on anything v1 ay has shown. Tobirama got ripped in half to get that feat. So it doesn't apply. Not to mention he still needed the help of hashirama's bunshin.

Cuz you counter it. Despite moving at top speed WITH SHUNSHIN minato and bee made it seem as if he was at a stand still. Heck not once did he react to Minato's ftg whereas, Bee reacted to it twice.


Flash Shunshin? Is that some shit you made up? No he kept up with narutos running speed. The moment naruto used shunshin he got smoked.

Yes v1 is slower than ms sasuke. Sasuke got behind him casually with his lightning sword then counter blitzed him with chidori. Heck even Suigetsu/juugo stoped his blitz attempts despite having chee's genjutsu as a set up.
> Bee reacted to and intercepted things he couldn't.
> Nothing contradicts that since the only time ay even touches sasuke in his v1 state is after he get's chidori'd and via a grapple.
> we don't know kakashi's starting position and sasuke was damn near blind. Not to mention exhausted from his fight with danzo. So yes kakashi> weak sasuke in speed.
> we don't know naruto's starting position and again this is a blind and weak sasuke. Naruto> weak sasuke in speed.

Come with something better.

 

[Apêx1]

THAT IS HOW IT WORKS. The only thing that's inferior is the chakra as he clearly said. With limited chakra they can't use all their techniques.

And strength, which is what he also said. Strength is proportional to speed, so your point of chakra being the only thing limited goes right out the window.

Whether or not guy opened it on the approach is irrelevant since kakashi was the first one to land the hit. He's the one wearing a glove on his arm.

What the hell? Just concede because you no longer have a point. Kakashi was the first panel, it doesn't mean he's the first to land a hit lmao. Kisame and Itachi fights were showed in completely seperate chapters yet they ended at the same time. Kishi was merely pointing out their attacks. As long as Gai was on par with Kakashi's speed without Gates, than 6th Gate Gai's speed>>>>Kakashi's speed. Nothing to even debate here, you're grasping at straws because the scan you were using to compare Kakashi to Gai's speed was not a 6th Gated Gai.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

And strength, which is what he also said. Strength is proportional to speed, so your point of chakra being the only thing limited goes right out the window.



What the hell? Just concede because you no longer have a point. Kakashi was the first panel, it doesn't mean he's the first to land a hit lmao. Kisame and Itachi fights were showed in completely seperate chapters yet they ended at the same time. Kishi was merely pointing out their attacks. As long as Gai was on par with Kakashi's speed without Gates, than 6th Gate Gai's speed>>>>Kakashi's speed. Nothing to even debate here, you're grasping at straws because the scan you were using to compare Kakashi to Gai's speed was not a 6th Gated Gai.

Strength is not proportional to speed. Sakura choji tsunade etc are clear examples of this. So unless you have proof of him saying his speed and reaction were inferior your claims that they were go out the window.

That second part. Is completely illogical, and it goes against what you were originally saying.

 

[youRLord]

kakashi win

 

[EliteKakashi]

The speed comparison of Gai and Kakashi in that panel is silly anyway..the bijuu are practically right in front of them. As a matter of fact, the next page shows that when Gai and Kakashi allow some of them to run past them to allow Naruto/Bee to deal with them, Gai has already struck one(and is already ready to strike another) before Kakashi has even reached his first of the "new wave", and this isn't even Gai using the full speed that he's shown in it before.

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Gai is capable of controlling his speed while using the gates. He simply stayed at the same pace as Kakashi on the first page(for the very short distance they had to travel to intercept the bijuu), and once he attacked, he obviously ramped it up a bit.

There is a very short list of people who can keep up with Gai using 6th gate speed at it's max, and Kakashi's name isn't on that list.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

The speed comparison of Gai and Kakashi in that panel is silly anyway..the bijuu are practically right in front of them. As a matter of fact, the next page shows that when Gai and Kakashi allow some of them to run past them to allow Naruto/Bee to deal with them, Gai has already struck one(and is already ready to strike another) before Kakashi has even reached his first of the "new wave", and this isn't even Gai using the full speed that he's shown in it before.

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Gai is capable of controlling his speed while using the gates. He simply stayed at the same pace as Kakashi on the first page(for the very short distance they had to travel to intercept the bijuu), and once he attacked, he obviously ramped it up a bit.

There is a very short list of people who can keep up with Gai using 6th gate speed at it's max, and Kakashi's name isn't on that list.

Yet they claim v1 ay =darui in speed just because they attacked together. Despite your sound logic working in both cases.
Hence my sarcastic reply on page 1.

 

[LuckyMan]

Yet they claim v1 ay =darui in speed just because they attacked together. Despite your sound logic working in both cases.
Hence my sarcastic reply on page 1.

Not because they attacked, but because they were in the same location, arrived in the same location, and attacks landed at the same time, something you cant say for Kakashi in that scan.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Not because they attacked, but because they were in the same location, arrived in the same location, and attacks landed at the same time, something you cant say for Kakashi in that scan.

No. Since its obviously clear ay matched his speed to darui. Not the other way around.

Just like how guy matched his speed to kakashi.(leaving at the same time. Both getting two hits in at the same time in the same place.)

If you're gonna sit here and claim v1 ay=darui
Imma claim kakashi=6 gate guy since its the exact same situation.

 

[LuckyMan]

No. Since its obviously clear ay matched his speed to darui. Not the other way around.

Just like how guy matched his speed to kakashi.(leaving at the same time. Both getting two hits in at the same time in the same place.)

If you're gonna sit here and claim v1 ay=darui
Imma claim kakashi=6 gate guy since its the exact same situation.

Obvious? Where did Ay state hes slowing down his speed for Darui? He had no reason to slow down. He had them right where he wanted him in the Genjutsu and tried to kill them. Thats not even Ays character either. Ay doesn't slow down, when he comes he comes with overwhelming menace. The only time he ever slowed down was to match his power with Kid Bee. I have no reason to believe he held back besides not using V2 from PIS.