It hath been confirm'd
- Thread starter LeSauce
- Start date
He released the genjutsu, yes, but that doesn't matter because Madara was shown summoning Kurama years after he died and lost Kurama.
Even if we ignore all the assumptions that have to be taken and say they made a contract, removing Obito's control over Kurama with Genjutsu has nothing to to with being able to summon it.
Because it didn't even have a name. Usually, when something is unique, it has a name. Otherwise how would we even know how to distinguish it from any other genjutsu
NextGenNinja
Active member
So you guys are telling me that lord sasuke can genjutsu anyone and summon them back at any time? Dat lord sasuke 
UzumakiWade
Active member
Scan doe? If your talking about when he tried to summon kyuubi as an edo when it was sealed in Naruto and caused Naruto great pain, like i said, how do we know Madara in general didn't have a contract?
You said Obito did what Madara did, if they both could do the same thing then why when is control of Kyuubi was ripped off from him by Minato, he couldn't summon the fox again later?
Just because it doesn't have a name doesn't mean everyone can use it, otherwise that would mean Naruto or Kakashi could do it too.
To be able to reverse summon something, you have to be able to summon it in the first place.
Like I said before, you have to make more assumptions for that than if he didn't have a contract, especially when Obito already showed that all he needed was genjutsu.
You're saying the same thing over and over.
Maybe for the same reason Madara couldn't?
Does Naruto have a Sharingan? I don't doubt Kakashi could take control of a beast because it was already said that anyone with MS is able to do it.
UzumakiWade
Active member
This entire thread is the epitome of assumptions so i don't see what your trying to prove. Also, then how do you explain Obito's ability to summon kurama getting cut off when minato released the genjutsu?
So are you
What is that reason?
Taking control of the beast =/= forging an invisible contract by placing them under a genjutsu. Unless you have proof that Sasuke did the exact same genjutsu as Obito and Madara did to be able to summon kyuubi, your point is moot.
He never lost the ability to summon Kurama, he lost his control over him and fled. What assumption btw? That once a Bijuu is caught in genjutsu, it can be summoned by the one who put the Bijuu in the genjutsu? That's 1.
Simply because i'm replying to you.
Are you this dense? There is no way to tell. It's freakin Sharingan genjutsu with no way to be distinguished. You can't say it's a different type of genjutsu because it has no unique properties other than being able to put Bijuu in genjutsu, which Sasuke did.
Just like any MS user can take control of a Bijuu with a basic MS genjutsu.
Last edited:
UzumakiWade
Active member
Why didn't he just place Kurama back in his control?
Same here
Do you even have a brain in that skull? If you can tell what it is how do you know that Sasuke has it? Sasuke put the bijuu under rinnegan jutsu, when Madara and Obito took control of Kurama, they used sharingan and Kurama's eyes turned into sharingan too not rinnegan like when Sasuke did it.
How do we know if they have the ability to keep the bijuu with an invisible contract?
Because he had already lost the fight. Why would he put him in control again when he was about to retreat?
So the look of it makes it different enough for it to be in effective. Ok, so Sasuke has a more powerful genjutsu and can't do something a lesser genjutsu can. Ok.
Not to mention that it's the chakra that the genjutsu gives off to the Bijuu that lets them summon the Bijuu.
That's my one assumption. Yours are that the Bijuu have a contract, that Madara knew about that contract, that Madara had the scroll to the contract, that he taught Obito how to do it and then signed him into the contract, and that Kurama was somehow able to know who was trying to summon him when it was already shown that summons can't do that.
UzumakiWade
Active member
Remember when Minato separated Obito and Kyuubi? Why didn't Obito re-summon him?
When did i say that? All jutsu's have different techniques, not all genjutsu are the same, im not saying that genjutsu is more powerful and thats why it can be used to summon bijuu. I just said they both are different one can summon the bijuu's and the other can't
Proof? Manga scan?
My only assumption was that Madara had a contract to kurama and let obito sign it too, you just want to make it sound more ridiculous by adding stuff i never said and trying to separate my one sentence into ten. I could do the same, you say that Madara and Obito can summon bijuus through genjutsu, then you say Sasuke can summon bijuu's through genjutsu, then you say anyone with MS can summon bijuus through genjutsu, then you say that a genjutsu with a different ability means it is more powerful than another genjutsu, then you say the genjutsu gives off chakra to the bijuu which lets them summon the bijuu. Need i add-on more?
1. To have a contract the Bijuu have to have one. You're assuming they do have one.
2. You're assuming Madara forced Kurama to give it to him and that he knew.
3. You're assuming he taught Obito and signed him into the contract.
I'm assuming that Sharingan genjutsu on the Bijuu allows you to summon the Bijuu. If my assumption is true, then by default Sasuke can use it.
The summons with contracts can't feel the chakra of their summoner, but Kurama could, meaning that it had something to do with the chakra of the genjutsu placer. I edited it into the OP.
There is no real difference other than power though. You're trying to make one up, but you can't because there are no descriptions of either one. What techniques would the Sharingan Madara and Obito have that Sasuke's didn't have?
What would be the point of Obito resummoning Kurama? He lost the fight.
The contract signed with the usage of Sharingan goes beyond Genjutsu itself. No idea how but it does. Unless Kyuubi is sealed in a Jin, Madara can summon him anytime he wants.
You must be registered for see images
UzumakiWade
Active member
Im assuming that Madara forged a contract by forcing kyuubi to agree.
This is basically the same thing as my single assumption which your just trying to create add-ons for.
How do you know your assumption is true?
Assumptions, genjutsu doesn't send the caster's chakra into the target what are you talking about?
I was just doing what you were doing also, Madara and Obito have the ability to genjutsu-summon bijuu which Sasuke didn't have.
I meant when Minato separated Obito and Kyuubi from each-other to fight Obito separately, why didn't Obito just summon kyuubi back to him?
It's not the same. If Madara has a contract, then that's one assumption, but you're saying that Obito has one too, and that Kurama can even have one.
Because it makes more sense.
That's not an assumption. The scan I posted in the OP clearly shows it's not.
So you agree that Obito and Madara could summon them because of genjutsu? Because if that's the case, Sasuke already filled the only prerequisite that was shown.
If you're talking about him not using it to fight Minato, the answer is because he was using Kurama to destroy the village.
UzumakiWade
Active member
1. I never said kyuubi had contract
2. Obito having the contract was a part of my original assumption so its not separated.
How so?
Post it here, otherwise your Sasuke being able to summon the bijuu point is moot.
But Sasuke doesn't know the jutsu.
Then why did he let Minato and Kushina seal Kurama into their son? Why didn't he just summon it back to him before they sealed it and not waste nearly 16-17 years trying to get back the kyuubi.
UzumakiWade
Active member
Neither are you understanding my point.
Read over the conversation and you will find the counter to those answers.
I didn't even see your post.
Contract summons can't feel the chakra of their summoner if that's what you're trying to prove.
On top of that, Pein did the same thing and they don't need a contract.
