[Question] Enel vs

[Punk Hazard]

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Armament...

That's now what I asked you. What Busoshoku does Ace have?

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

That's now what I asked you. What Busoshoku does Ace have?

Stupid question to be honest xD

Sorry for the misunderstanding. But seriously, you expect Ace not to have Busoshoku Haki? I know he never displayed feats of it, but he died before Oda even created a visible representation of it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Stupid question to be honest xD

Sorry for the misunderstanding. But seriously, you expect Ace not to have Busoshoku Haki? I know he never displayed feats of it, but he died before Oda even created a visible representation of it.

There are multiple reasons why Ace couldn't have Haki. I'll show why I don't think Ace has Busoshoku Haki by addressing the main reasons people say he has to have it:

1. Logias can't survive in the New World without it.
This isn't necessarily true. Pekoms said Logias in the New World who have overconfidence in their abilities get taken out easier. This doesn't necessarily mean that a Logia absolutely needs Busoshoku to survive. Monet, Caesar and Trebol have been surviving in the New World just fine, despite not being powerhouses themselves. The reason they have is because of the protection of those around them. They have the Donquixote Pirates backing them up, the same way Ace has the Whitebeard Pirates to back him up. When Buggy's crew wanted to kill Ace, Buggy stopped them because it would mean facing Whitebeard's wrath. Chances are, Ace could have survived without Haki simply because most people would be too scared of the crew to try and kill Ace.

In battle, the WB pirates clearly have teamwork down. During the war, they had strategies they had down and didn't need to voice to each other to carry out. Ace could have simply fought people he could handle, and leave Marco, Vista or Jozu or WB to handle people he'd need Busoshoku to fight.

2. Oda didn't have visible Haki pre-skip.
This doesn't excuse Ace not demonstrating Haki. Oda had:
1. Whitebeard
2. Rayleigh
3. Akainu
4. Kizaru
5. Kuzan
6. Kuja Pirates
7. Hancock
8. Garp
9. Jozu
10. Shanks
11. Marco
12. Vista
all demonstrating Busoshoku Haki just fine. Ace had the opportunity to use Buso against Teach, but didn't do so even once. He knew Teach was a Logia, and still attacked him without Haki with Fiery Doll. Ace was surprised that Teach was harmed by ¨an attack like that¨ because he didn't know Teach didn't have the same Logia advantage. This means that Ace attacked someone he knew was a Logia without Haki. Why? It makes no sense that Ace would hold back Haki against Teach if he had it. He was trying to murder Teach, and he has shown no qualms about killing, he's openly tried it multiple times. So why would he hold back Buso against the Logia he's bloodlusted against?

It's because Ace lacks Buso

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

There are multiple reasons why Ace couldn't have Haki. I'll show why I don't think Ace has Busoshoku Haki by addressing the main reasons people say he has to have it:

1. Logias can't survive in the New World without it.
This isn't necessarily true. Pekoms said Logias in the New World who have overconfidence in their abilities get taken out easier. This doesn't necessarily mean that a Logia absolutely needs Busoshoku to survive. Monet, Caesar and Trebol have been surviving in the New World just fine, despite not being powerhouses themselves. The reason they have is because of the protection of those around them. They have the Donquixote Pirates backing them up, the same way Ace has the Whitebeard Pirates to back him up. When Buggy's crew wanted to kill Ace, Buggy stopped them because it would mean facing Whitebeard's wrath. Chances are, Ace could have survived without Haki simply because most people would be too scared of the crew to try and kill Ace.

In battle, the WB pirates clearly have teamwork down. During the war, they had strategies they had down and didn't need to voice to each other to carry out. Ace could have simply fought people he could handle, and leave Marco, Vista or Jozu or WB to handle people he'd need Busoshoku to fight.

2. Oda didn't have visible Haki pre-skip.
This doesn't excuse Ace not demonstrating Haki. Oda had:
1. Whitebeard
2. Rayleigh
3. Akainu
4. Kizaru
5. Kuzan
6. Kuja Pirates
7. Hancock
8. Garp
9. Jozu
10. Shanks
11. Marco
12. Vista
all demonstrating Busoshoku Haki just fine. Ace had the opportunity to use Buso against Teach, but didn't do so even once. He knew Teach was a Logia, and still attacked him without Haki with Fiery Doll. Ace was surprised that Teach was harmed by ¨an attack like that¨ because he didn't know Teach didn't have the same Logia advantage. This means that Ace attacked someone he knew was a Logia without Haki. Why? It makes no sense that Ace would hold back Haki against Teach if he had it. He was trying to murder Teach, and he has shown no qualms about killing, he's openly tried it multiple times. So why would he hold back Buso against the Logia he's bloodlusted against?

It's because Ace lacks Buso

All I will say is that Aces only opportunity to display Busoshoku Haki was against an Admiral with a superior Logia that would've overpowered him either way...

And it seems ridiculous for someone like Ace, on Whitebeards ship, surrounded by Haki users, to be unable to use Busoshoku Haki. He was well aware that Haki was needed to hit him (as demonstrated when fighting Blackbeard), so it's likely he knows how to use it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

All I will say is that Aces only opportunity to display Busoshoku Haki was against an Admiral with a superior Logia that would've overpowered him either way...

And it seems ridiculous for someone like Ace, on Whitebeards ship, surrounded by Haki users, to be unable to use Busoshoku Haki. He was well aware that Haki was needed to hit him (as demonstrated when fighting Blackbeard), so it's likely he knows how to use it.

Incorrect. Have you forgotten about Teach?

That's exactly why he wouldn't need it. He's surrounded by Haki users, they can handle Logias and people you need Haki to combat while Ace handled those that didn't

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Incorrect. Have you forgotten about Teach?

That's exactly why he wouldn't need it. He's surrounded by Haki users, they can handle Logias and people you need Haki to combat while Ace handled those that didn't

It just looks like you've put two random sentences (meaning the opposite of eachother) together.

He didn't need it because he didn't fight anyone requiring it (in order to be defeated)? or because he was surrounded by those who compensated for his lack of it? Because either way, both are highly skeptical, like this entire discussion XD

 

[Punk Hazard]

It just looks like you've put two random sentences (meaning the opposite of eachother) together.

He didn't need it because he didn't fight anyone requiring it (in order to be defeated)? or because he was surrounded by those who compensated for his lack of it? Because either way, both are highly skeptical, like this entire discussion XD

He didn't need it because he avoided those who he would need it to defeat, letting those who already have it to handle them.

Ace not having Buso is subject to skepticism, but not so much as Ace having Busoshoku.

 

[Red Swag]

Enel vs crocodile - Enel mid to high diff
Enel vs whitebeard - Wb no diff
Enel vs dolfflamingo - Mingo no diff
Enel vs ace - Ace mid to high diff
Ends vs law - Law low diff

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

He didn't need it because he avoided those who he would need it to defeat, letting those who already have it to handle them.

Ace not having Buso is subject to skepticism, but not so much as Ace having Busoshoku.

Two sides of the same coin. Therefore equally subject to theory

 

[Punk Hazard]

Two sides of the same coin. Therefore equally subject to theory

And inapplicable in debates.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

And inapplicable in debates.

theories are still applicable in debates if they get your point across

 

[Punk Hazard]

theories are still applicable in debates if they get your point across

Yeah no, we go with what's in the manga, not things we make up

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yeah no, we go with what's in the manga, not things we make up

Theories are based upon what's in the manga

 

[Skylar Knight]

Yeah no, we go with what's in the manga, not things we make up

Gotta ask yourself why the f*ck the Whitebeard Pirates let the guy with no haki fight two admirals in a row.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Theories are based upon what's in the manga

And yet the manga supports the other side of what you're saying,

Gotta ask yourself why the f*ck the Whitebeard Pirates let the guy with no haki fight two admirals in a row.

they actually strongly opposed him fighting Sakazuki and they were too busy being happy he was free when he confronted Kuzan.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Enel vs Crocodile

Enel wins with mid to high diff.

Enel vs Whitebeard

WB wins with no diff.

Enel vs Doflamingo

Doflamingo wins with low (at worst) to mid diff (at best for Enel).

Enel vs Ace

Ace wins with mid to high diff.

Enel vs Law

Law with high diff.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

And yet the manga supports the other side of what you're saying,


they actually strongly opposed him fighting Sakazuki and they were too busy being happy he was free when he confronted Kuzan.

The Manga doesn't support anything you have said. You assumed everything yourself with no manga facts to back you up other than the fact he never fought anyone requiring Haki to beat (except the Admirals)

 

[Punk Hazard]

The Manga doesn't support anything you have said. You assumed everything yourself with no manga facts to back you up other than the fact he never fought anyone requiring Haki to beat (except the Admirals)

Except it has. Ace never using Buso in the manga nor it never being stated in the manga that he can supports that Ace doesn't have Buso.

Ace didn't know that he didn't require Haki when fighting Teach, so the fact that he never did at even one point when he thought he did supports that Ace doesn't have it.

 

[Olorin]

Except it has. Ace never using Buso in the manga nor it never being stated in the manga that he can supports that Ace doesn't have Buso.

Ace didn't know that he didn't require Haki when fighting Teach, so the fact that he never did at even one point when he thought he did supports that Ace doesn't have it.

The last time Ace had a real fight was 10 volumes before Marineford and even AT Marineford Oda didnt yet know how to show Haki

If Tashigi has Haki and the 2nd div Commander of the WB pirates, a pseudo-legend even in the NW AND WB's main contender for the title of the PK doesn't, that's just moronic

If you want to follow Haki by strict portrayal than you also have to say that Vergo's Haki is stronger than Haki Of everyone at Marineford combined

 

[Punk Hazard]

The last time Ace had a real fight was 10 volumes before Marineford and even AT Marineford Oda didnt yet know how to show Haki

If Tashigi has Haki and the 2nd div Commander of the WB pirates doesn't, that's just moronic

If you want to follow Haki by strict portrayal than you also have to say that Vergo's Haki is stronger than Haki Of everyone at Marineford combined

That is no excuse. Oda had both Haoshoku and Kenbonshoku portrayed since the first two sagas, and he's a master of planning ahead, but he's gonna fall over himself on Busoshoku? Unlikely.

I'm not following Haki strength by portrayal, I'm following Haki possession by portrayal. There's a very big difference between the manga never portraying someone with Haki and not portraying someone's Haki to its full power.