Centurybomber
Member
Wait, you just got it today?
I thought you already had it a few day ago. I was just about to private message you to see how far you were.
SMT: Persona FC
- Thread starter Naoya Minato
- Start date
- Status
I thought you already had it a few day ago. I was just about to private message you to see how far you were.
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Yup, just got it today.
I may have said I was planning to get it a few days ago, or something like that
I'm currently at the end of the 1st floor of the 1st labyrinth, but I have to go and get 100% completion so I can open the treasure chest. I'll play some more tonight.
Last edited:
Naoya Minato
Active member
Centurybomber
Member
ya, I noticed that when someone mentioned it in an analysis thread. I wonder what that could mean. O_O
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Good catch, I didn't even see that.
Hmm... well my first take on it would be that whatever blue-energy-demon-thingy we see in the trailer is feeding off the life force of the people who are slaves to society, i.e. the people glued to their phones in the trailer. They appear on the ground because their lives are becoming more and more saturated and controlled, akin to being dead.
Or maybe they're not actually on the ground, and it's just the heads of the people who we see shortly before it zooms in on his glasses.
Also, I keep trying to rep you guys, but it tells me to spread some first. Sorry homies :,(
Last edited:
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Naoya Minato
Active member
Alright then. Welcome.~
Which isn't a lot right now. LolWelcome!
Feel free to jump in to any discussions that you see happening.
Although, for anyone who hasn't noticed/seen it yet, the Adachi episode of P4 Golden is available english subbed now.
You must be registered for see links
Last edited:
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Damn, that was pretty dark...
They did a good job with this one. There's some serious symbolism in there, namely when Yu is arguing with Marie, and it shows the two flowers on the ground, with the duality of light/shadow.
Unrelated: A thought randomly popped into my head this morning, and I may have come up with an explanation as to why Philemon, and maybe Nyarlathotep, don't physically appear in the Persona world anymore. I need to do some research, but I may or may not type up an entire theory and post it here.
Last edited:
Naoya Minato
Active member
I know it meant Yu basically betraying everything he had done up until then, but I did not like his reaction. He was very calm in Golden. He didn't attack Adachi or anything like that. Although Adachi looking up towards the sky and saying ''How boring~'' at the end was a nice addition.
I'd say go for it.
Nice! GOTY goes out to Persona Q for me, honestly.Started my PQ playthrough
There were a lot of disappointing games this year and Persona Q really stood out as a great game. Sure, there was Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Smash, Pokemon, SMT 4 (Europe), Dragon Age and all that, but they didn't really ''hit'' me as much as PQ did.
Now on to 2015: Persona 5, Disgaea 5, Final Fantasy 15, Devil Survivor 2: Break Record, Zelda, Witcher 3, Xenoblade Chronicles X...Next year will be a great year.
Last edited:
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
The Philemon Theory/Analysis
*contains P1 and P2 spoilers*
You must be registered for see images
*contains P1 and P2 spoilers*
Alright, so to explain this theory of mine, I'm going to have to refer to P2 stuff. And since not everyone has played it or has extensive knowledge of it, I'm going to recap a lot of things before I get to the point. Please, enjoy.
In the Persona world, there are two deities who watch over mankind. One of them is Philemon, who is born from the best qualities of humanity, and exists as a force of light. The other one is Nyarlathotep, who is born from humanity's worst qualities, and exists as a force of darkness. They are essentially two sides of the same coin.
You must be registered for see images
In Persona 2: Innocent Sin, the two of them have a sort of bet going on, regarding the fate of humanity. Philemon thinks that humans can overcome their bad sides, and become enlightened. Whereas Nyarlathotep thinks that humans are doomed to create chaos, leading to their downfall. Nyarlathotep, being the nasty guy that he is, directly intervenes in human affairs to make sure they create chaos so he wins the bet. Philemon, on the other hand, does not intervene and plays fairly (although his servant Igor helps the P1/2 casts via the Velvet Room).
During Innocent Sin, because of Nyarlathotep's intervention, the entire planet ends up being destroyed (except for Sumaru City, which is now a floating spaceship). To top things off, just as the cast of P2 defeats Nyarlathotep, he pulls the strings of fate once more so that Maya (the female lead) ends up getting stabbed, and dies.
You must be registered for see images
Because Tatsuya and his friends have such strong wills, Philemon says he will be able to reverse everything that happened, by creating a new reality where the main characters never meet each other, and lose all their memories.
In response, Tatsuya punches him in the face (reason #1 of 9999 why he's the best Persona MC), to express his discontent with the fact that Philemon was merely sitting back and "playing fair" while Nyarlathotep had his way with everyone.
After the new reality is created, Philemon is weakened. It must have took a lot of juice to create a new dimesion, because he can no longer appear to the Eternal Punishment cast in his complete physical form. This is the only screenshot I could find showing this, but basically when he shows up, he's either transparent, or a butterfly.
You must be registered for see images
In the new reality, everyone is alive and well, except for two major problems. The first is the fact that Nyarlathotep is still weaving the strings of fate, and trying to destroy the world again. The second is the fact that everyone did forget about the events of Innocent Sin, except for Tatsuya, who's bond with Maya and friends was so strong that not even dimensional-level reality warping could make him forget them.
You must be registered for see images
Anyways, EP goes on with the new cast (and Maya) slowly being exposed to what happened in the other reality, until they confront Nyarlathotep once and for all at the end of the game. After they defeat him and seal him away (although he will never truly 100% disappear), Tatsuya says that he is going to go back to the reality of Innocent Sin to rebuild the world with his friends (who still exist there with their memories). Basically what happens is that the current Tatsuya is his IS mind/soul in his EP body, so when he leaves, the EP Tatsuya that should have been can awaken (who has no memories of IS). Maya, who fell in love with Tatsuya, is sad because they won't ever naturally cross paths again, much less be able to be friends or have the same relationship they had.
Now, this brings us to the theorizing. In the ending cinematic of the game, Maya is seen walking down a street corner. As she waits for the crossing signal, a yellow butterfly (Philemon), appears on the railing. Before it flies off, low and behold, Tatsuya arrives at the crossing on his motorcycle. Ignore the description and comments of the video:
This suggests that Philemon intervened in things, by his own choice, perhaps thinking that it wasn't fair to them to let Nyarlathotep shape their reality as he saw fit. So he worked his magic and made it so that Maya was able to see Tatsuya again. I'm not going to get into the logistics of why Maya smiles at the end (or why Tatsuya doesn't do anything), because it isn't relevant to this theory.
Now, the first time Philemon intervened by creating the new dimension, he was seriously weakened, losing the power to materialize in his physical, humanoid form. So now, after intervening yet a second time so that Maya and Tatsuya connected again, it's pretty safe to deduce that Philemon has completely lost his ability to manifest himself as anything more than his butterfly form.
This is why in P3 he appears a few times as the blue butterfly (notably in cinematics) and in P4 he is hovering over the save points in that form.
You must be registered for see images
So, long story short, that's why Philemon hasn't appeared directly in Persona 3 or 4^^
Last edited:
You expect me to believe that the butterfly that I use to save the game is the representation of humanity's best values? LOL, and they call me a conspiracy theorist
Just kidding XD but that's a great theory man. Now I really should play P2 since it's sitting on my PS3 hard drive ;_;
In any case, any explanation why he's blue instead of yellow like in P2? It was an excellent theory, though.
They referred to butterflies in the third and fourth games with respect to the "butterfly effect", where choices and changes in initial conditions affect the outcomes of further states in the future.
Here's the catch: you save the game via the butterfly in P4, which solidifies "initial conditions", saving your current state. Why do they ask you to save before you figure out the killer or before Yu leaves Inaba? It's to preserve said state to become malleable to your choices. You can choose the wrong culprit (leading to the bad/neutral ending) or you can choose to fight or not fight Izanami (true vs. good ending). So in a sense, reloading makes TOTAL sense because it could be Philemon's powers turning back dimensions to what they were before the butterfly effect took place. In a way, it's an extension of your theory
That was my theory, and it's a genius move on Atlus's part.
Maybe we'll see Phil and Ny in some form in P5?
You can't exit the TV world to go into the shops? Or was that just in Golden?
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Thank man, I did it for the homiesYou expect me to believe that the butterfly that I use to save the game is the representation of humanity's best values? LOL, and they call me a conspiracy theorist
Just kidding XD but that's a great theory man. Now I really should play P2 since it's sitting on my PS3 hard drive ;_;
In any case, any explanation why he's blue instead of yellow like in P2? It was an excellent theory, though.
They referred to butterflies in the third and fourth games with respect to the "butterfly effect", where choices and changes in initial conditions affect the outcomes of further states in the future.
Here's the catch: you save the game via the butterfly in P4, which solidifies "initial conditions", saving your current state. Why do they ask you to save before you figure out the killer or before Yu leaves Inaba? It's to preserve said state to become malleable to your choices. You can choose the wrong culprit (leading to the bad/neutral ending) or you can choose to fight or not fight Izanami (true vs. good ending). So in a sense, reloading makes TOTAL sense because it could be Philemon's powers turning back dimensions to what they were before the butterfly effect took place. In a way, it's an extension of your theory
That was my theory, and it's a genius move on Atlus's part.
Maybe we'll see Phil and Ny in some form in P5?
As for the colors, I actually did look into that, but I didn't find anything concrete. There doesn't appear to be any contrasting significance to them in color psychology, so I suppose it was just a stylistic decision. In P1, it's a purple butterfly, so that probably shows it's more of a random change.
...dayum, good thinking Souji. Totally didn't think of that. If that really was a conscious decision by the directors, then wow, that's impressive.
I really hope they do play some sort of role in P5 (the theme of being slaves to society fits perfectly with Nyarly), but I'm not going to get my hopes up, after they were crushed by Ultimax, when I thought that he was the one pulling the strings >_>
ALSO, whatever you do, play Innocent Sin before Eternal Punishment (I assume you meant you have EP on your PS3). You can get IS for your Vita, and it's much, much more enjoyable at first. To get the full merit and fun out of Eternal Punishment (since it's more of a continuation then a standalone entry), you should definitely get through IS first.
Last edited:
This is a very interesting theory
But one thing, are Izanami, Nyx and Erebus manifestations of Nyarlathotep?
You expect me to believe that the butterfly that I use to save the game is the representation of humanity's best values? LOL, and they call me a conspiracy theorist
Just kidding XD but that's a great theory man. Now I really should play P2 since it's sitting on my PS3 hard drive ;_;
In any case, any explanation why he's blue instead of yellow like in P2? It was an excellent theory, though.
They referred to butterflies in the third and fourth games with respect to the "butterfly effect", where choices and changes in initial conditions affect the outcomes of further states in the future.
Here's the catch: you save the game via the butterfly in P4, which solidifies "initial conditions", saving your current state. Why do they ask you to save before you figure out the killer or before Yu leaves Inaba? It's to preserve said state to become malleable to your choices. You can choose the wrong culprit (leading to the bad/neutral ending) or you can choose to fight or not fight Izanami (true vs. good ending). So in a sense, reloading makes TOTAL sense because it could be Philemon's powers turning back dimensions to what they were before the butterfly effect took place. In a way, it's an extension of your theory
That was my theory, and it's a genius move on Atlus's part.
Maybe we'll see Phil and Ny in some form in P5?
You can't exit the TV world to go into the shops? Or was that just in Golden?
That'd be very cool, and yes I can, but I don't know why but I can only buy HP items, not SP, well, I guess I'll have to keep griding at lower level dungeons for like 2-3 hours for money O_0
Thank man, I did it for the homies
As for the colors, I actually did look into that, but I didn't find anything concrete. There doesn't appear to be any contrasting significance to them in color psychology, so I suppose it was just a stylistic decision. In P1, it's a purple butterfly, so that probably shows it's more of a random change.
...dayum, good thinking Souji. Totally didn't think of that. If that really was a conscious decision by the directors, then wow, that's impressive.
I really hope they do play some sort of role in P5 (the theme of being slaves to society fits perfectly with Nyarly), but I'm not going to get my hopes up, after they were crushed by Ultimax, when I thought that he was the one pulling the strings >_>
ALSO, whatever you do, play Innocent Sin before Eternal Punishment (I assume you meant you have EP on your PS3). You can get IS for your Vita, and it's much, much more enjoyable at first. To get the full merit and fun out of Eternal Punishment (since it's more of a continuation then a standalone entry), you should definitely get through IS first.
About the buterfly, I think from now on it'll be blue, after P3, they kinda made a pattern with the Wild Card, World/Universe arcana, social links and stuff
Last edited:
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Thanks man.
About Nyx, Erebus, and Izanami: they definitely arern't manifestations of Nyarly. They all have their own goals and agendas (especially Izanami), and aren't directly doing Nyarlathotep's bidding.
However, because they're creating chaos propagated by humanity's desires (ex. the fog in P4, The Fall being triggered by humans in P3) it can be said that indirectly, they are still connected to Nyarlathotep. But I wouldn't put them in the same category as him.
I get what you mean about the butterfly. Another reason it's blue is because ATLUS is making me blue due to the fact that they're neglecting P1/2
Took a long time, but I kept farming in lower level dungeons for gold and got heals, then grinded again and defeat Izanami
God, the feeling is so good finishing it yourself
Gonna start P3 now O_0
Any tips for P3?
God, the feeling is so good finishing it yourself
Gonna start P3 now O_0
Any tips for P3?
Last edited:
Magatsu Izanagi
Active member
Awards
Well, in P3 you can't completely direct the commands of your party aside from the MC, so you'll have to enjoy dealing with the AI
it isn't that bad, though. You can still set "roles" for everyone, i.e. healing, attacking, etc.Yeah I set Yukari to healing and the boss deal 1 damage to two of the party members and it uses mediarahanWell, in P3 you can't completely direct the commands of your party aside from the MC, so you'll have to enjoy dealing with the AI
I hate AI, it screwed me so much in other games
- Status