Base Minato vs Mobile Nagato

[Haizaki]

Haha @DemonSenju, I don't think there's a problem with that strategy though. Hey Unorthodox, counter GL's strategy haha?

 

[Gold Lightning]

Haha @DemonSenju, I don't think there's a problem with that strategy though. Hey Unorthodox, counter GL's strategy haha?

Only way I'd say my strategy is invalid, is if someone proves to me how it's different from Obitos kamui.

Like Kakashi said:
- Obito's teleportation and dematerialisation is the same jutsu (there was literally a whole chapter named and dedicated to this)
- Kakashi says their way of thinking is flawed, because Obito isn't really intangible.
- Obito actually sends his body parts to the other dimension.

So although we can still see Obito, he's not actually really there. What I'm failing to see is how this is different to Minato also using space time ninjutsu to escape such things. In fact Obitos case is worse because at least Minato still remains in the real world. And as we see here:

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. Obito has transported his entire body to the other dimension, despite still being visible in the real dimension.

So do we restrict kamui in every Obito vs thread now. Because I'll happily accept that, just to restrict Minato in one scenario Lol. Let's see how many opponents Obito can't defeat with battlefield removal in place.XD

 

[Demonic.]

Haha @DemonSenju, I don't think there's a problem with that strategy though. Hey Unorthodox, counter GL's strategy haha?

I think it's bs on a vs thread. Using Obito is also a bad example since he has to enter kamui to get from point A to point B, or to go intangible.

Minato reverse summoning to Mt. Myoboku is like Obito warping to his lab. These third party locations should be irrelevant when 2 characters are going at it in a vs thread.....but if no one else sees a problem with that strategy then maybe it's just me, so I'm okay with it I guess.

 

[Gold Lightning]

I think it's bs on a vs thread. Using Obito is also a bad example since he has to enter kamui to get from point A to point B, or to go intangible.

Minato reverse summoning to Mt. Myoboku is like Obito warping to his lab. These third party locations should be irrelevant when 2 characters are going at it in a vs thread.....but if no one else sees a problem with that strategy then maybe it's just me, so I'm okay with it I guess.

But how is kamui dimension different from Obito going to his lab? I'd call a different dimension a fourth party location to be honest.

 

[Apêx1]

Whats unquantifiable about it?

Speed feats need a basis for quantification. #of panels is no quantification.

Nagato didn't change position.
The ground isn't torn up.
thus he was outside its range from the get go.

Yet this is a 40 meter starting distance, and yet the CT was a perfect circle. Thus the rocks gathered from behind Nagato too, the only place they didn't was the place he stood (I'm guessing.. as it's the only viable explanation)
Thus Minato still gets caught in regardless of what you claim.

The clone leaves, the real Minato teleports CT to the clones location. Not allowed apparently.

So yeah Nagato wins, if Minato isn't allowed to use any viable method of escaping CT, even though he has multiple ways U_U. If this wasn't the case, Minato wins.

So basically, Minato is restricted from using any method of saving his life. He just has to watch and stare at ct because the "rulez" said so.

If we make it out of character then there is potential for Minato to win. Otherwise he has no chance of winning.

 

[Demonic.]

But how is kamui dimension different from Obito going to his lab? I'd call a different dimension a fourth party location to be honest.

Obito has to enter Kamui to get from point a to point b. The concept is the same as FTG, the only difference is Obito has to enter Kamui to teleport around the battlefield. Obito's phasing also works by sending parts of himself to another dimension. That's how his power works. Obito teleporting to his lab is a different story.

But I already said I'm okay with it.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Speed feats need a basis for quantification. #of panels is no quantification.



Yet this is a 40 meter starting distance, and yet the CT was a perfect circle. Thus the rocks gathered from behind Nagato too, the only place they didn't was the place he stood (I'm guessing.. as it's the only viable explanation)
Thus Minato still gets caught in regardless of what you claim.



If we make it out of character then there is potential for Minato to win. Otherwise he has no chance of winning.

Except it's not out of character, it's completely in character.

The reason you say it's out of character is because people like to restrict minatos markings. In the manga, Minato always has a marking outside of battle. Either before hand or he sets it up, that's how he fights. It's a precautionary tactic to deal with difficult techniques.

Against Obito, he didn't need to set up outside markings because he already had them outside the village and other locations. Against the Juubi and Juubito, he already placed a Kunai in the ocean before arriving on the battlefield. Because it's the most common sense thing to do when going into battle.

However some people take basically his number 1 tactic away in vs threads. So what is he expected to do against such techniques? If it was a real situation in the manga, and he "forgot" to set up markings outside before hand. Then he'd have to think of another strategy, which is precisely why I have to resort to such an unusual, yet believable tactic. It's not out of characters to think outside the box and be unpredictable is it? I though that's what happens in most Naruto fights.

Anyway my point is, if it was a real manga/anime situation. Mianto would always have a marking elsewhere to deal with such things. And in that case, I believe Minato has his chances of beating nagato's. Without it, minatos only chance is of he marks nagato beforehand.

 

[Haizaki]

DemonSenju does have a point.

 

[Selan]

Nagati stomps.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Obito has to enter Kamui to get from point a to point b. The concept is the same as FTG, the only difference is Obito has to enter Kamui to teleport around the battlefield. Obito's phasing also works by sending parts of himself to another dimension. That's how his power works. Obito teleporting to his lab is a different story.

But I already said I'm okay with it.

DemonSenju does have a point.

I agree he has a point that it's part of Obitos jutsu, the kamui dimension is just part of his technique. So yeah I guess that's true that it's different than going to his lab.

However, what would people say if Obito actually used his teleportation (not his ghost mode, his actual warp/space time teleportation) and went and camped in the other dimension. Let's say against 8 gates guy, Obitos goes and camps in the dimension, and waits 10 mins and comes back to the battlefield. Is that still not battlefield removal?

 

[ARGUS]

Nagato wins this mid diff at the very most

 

[Haizaki]

I agree he has a point that it's part of Obitos jutsu, the kamui dimension is just part of his technique. So yeah I guess that's true that it's different than going to his lab.

However, what would people say if Obito actually used his teleportation (not his ghost mode, his actual warp/space time teleportation) and went and camped in the other dimension. Let's say against 8 gates guy, Obitos goes and camps in the dimension, and waits 10 mins and comes back to the battlefield. Is that still not battlefield removal?

Yeah agreed. It is BFR if Obito does that.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Speed feats need a basis for quantification. #of panels is no quantification.



Yet this is a 40 meter starting distance, and yet the CT was a perfect circle. Thus the rocks gathered from behind Nagato too, the only place they didn't was the place he stood (I'm guessing.. as it's the only viable explanation)
Thus Minato still gets caught in regardless of what you claim.



If we make it out of character then there is potential for Minato to win. Otherwise he has no chance of winning.

Rocks weren't gathered from behind nagato. In fact where nagato stood the land remained the same. Had he been in range or in that area the rocks would have been upturned. Which it isnt.

 

[KidGamer65]

CST nukes the whole battlefield, and Minato along with it.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Yeah agreed. It is BFR if Obito does that.

Then that's the only problem I have. It's no different to obitos Intangibility, the jutsu is one in the same. Hence why I see no issue with minato reverse summoning/clone method or whatever space time he uses. Since Obito does the same every battle.

 

[Haizaki]

Then that's the problem I have. It's no different to Intangibity, the jutsu is one in the same. Hence why I see no issue with reverse summoning/clone method. Since Obito does the same every battle.

One thing I actually consider is this..If Obito teleports to the other Dimension, it's different from attacks actually passing through him while it seems he's in the real world. For example, he can actually counterattack like this

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and many more..

However, if he teleports away he can't do things like that because he's gone. If he teleports away and teleports back within a 2-5 seconds interval (you know what I mean), then it's not really different but he's better off teleporting to a different position in the same battlefield. For example, when he fought Mianto he went intangible but when he was forfeiting, this was how he did it

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. Surely he could have teleported to his lab and then came back? Of course he didn't do it because it's not considered in a fight.

Another example

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Boy didn't teleport to his lab haha. Once one teleports to a different location in a 1v1, then it's supposed to be over.

 

[Gold Lightning]

One thing I actually consider is this..If Obito teleports to the other Dimension, it's different from attacks actually passing through him while it seems he's in the real world. For example, he can actually counterattack like this

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You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

and many more..

However, if he teleports away he can't do things like that because he's gone. If he teleports away and teleports back within a 2-5 seconds interval (you know what I mean), then it's not really different but he's better off teleporting to a different position in the same battlefield. For example, when he fought Mianto he went intangible but when he was forfeiting, this was how he did it

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. Surely he could have teleported to his lab and then came back? Of course he didn't do it because it's not considered in a fight.

Another example

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Boy didn't teleport to his lab haha. Once one teleports to a different location in a 1v1, then it's supposed to be over.

Not all entirely true. Obito can still counter you with teleportation in a tactical manner. Like here:

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Gets above his opponent to slam down into them. Or here:

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he uses it to evade and then reappear here:

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. He can still counterattack, evade and strike using his teleportation, and quickly pop in and out of the dimension in quick succession (same thing as his intangibility. His intangibility allows him to come from underneath an opponent, while his teleportation allows him to come from above - still all functions the same)

I still see it as the same thing. It's essentially no different to going ghost mode, only difference is we can still see him when he goes intangible. But the jutsu principle is still the same, transporting between 2 different dimesions aka going to another location outside the battlefield.

I don't think sight should be a valid reason as to why both aren't the same as BFR. As the manga states, it's one jutsu/the same jutsu. Both jutsu do the exact same thing, only difference is that other way allows you to stay in the dimension longer, while the other allows you to enter the dimension faster but for shorter periods.

 

[Haizaki]

Not all entirely true. Obito can still counter you with teleportation in a tactical manner. Like here:

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Gets above his opponent to slam down into them. Or here:

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he uses it to evade and then reappear here:

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. He can still counterattack, evade and strike using his teleportation, and quickly pop in and out of the dimension in quick succession (same thing as his intangibility. His intangibility allows him to come from underneath an opponent, while his teleportation allows him to come from above - still all functions the same)

I still see it as the same thing. It's essentially no different to going ghost mode, only difference is we can still see him when he goes intangible. But the jutsu principle is still the same, transporting between 2 different dimesions aka going to another location outside the battlefield.

I don't think sight should be a valid reason as to why both aren't the same as BFR. As the manga states, it's one jutsu/the same jutsu. Both jutsu do the exact same thing, only difference is that other way allows you to stay in the dimension longer, while the other allows you to enter the dimension faster but for shorter periods.

Which is why I said :

but he's better off teleporting to a different position in the same battlefield.

You showed him teleporting to different positions in the same battlefield. The difference with the ghost mode is he can still be seen there while his opponents knows he is in the other world as it's his mode. Obito can't be away for more than 5 mins so it's completely different as there's a time set while Obitp can counter the opponent.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Which is why I said :



You showed him teleporting to different positions in the same battlefield. The difference with the ghost mode is he can still be seen there while his opponents knows he is in the other world as it's his mode. Obito can't be away for more than 5 mins so it's completely different as there's a time set while Obitp can counter the opponent.

Time limit shouldn't mean anything. If Obito chooses to wait 5 mins in the kamui dimension via teleportation or phasing is still the exact same thing as being/camping in another location for 5 mins (it means he's left either way). He's shown to counter with either method.

Obito may still be seen when he phases, but his body no longer "exists" in that physical plane. He basically becomes a mirage, he's no longer there, gone completely somewhere else. Also when he teleports to different positions. He teleports in and out of the dimension, so again its still the same as phasing.

So it's like we're making up different rules for different scenarios, when all should apply to the same scenario. If Obito's body leaves to another dimension, it's BFR no matter how he does it.

And the phasing yet being visual to the oppoenent is the exact same as Minato sending a clone away. The real minato is still there, while his clone goes elsewhere. Same as Obitos body going elsewhere, but can still be seen. I find them all to be the same. And I know no one will ever agree to always restrict kamui in a million years.

 

[FlyingRaijinLVL2]

It could go either way. Nonetheless, its high diff.