[Discussion] Smoker's return

[Bogard]

Vergo was above Smoker no doubt personally I think it was more of a high diff fight Sanji vs Vergo was mid diff but I think you're looking at ranks as to much of a gauge for strength. Vergo was above Smoker, Law and Sanji physically and funnily enough both Sanji and Smoker are physical fighters Vergo was also shown to be superior to Law in aspects as well Law was fortunate Vergo was overconfident that's all.

High difficulty? The dude didn't even need to go into the full body haki mode to defeat him, even adding that Smoker had no chance to begin with. The difficulty was similar to the one with Sanji, although in the Sanji-Vergo one it was a short skirmich and none really went all out, which was the only difference

And no, Law was blatantly stronger than Vergo. Physical power isn't everything and because Law isn't a physical fighter doesn't make him weaker than more physical powerhouses. Law has other tricks that make him stronger and he proved his superiority over Vergo the moment he got his heart back

There's nothing to suggest Smoker had prior knowledge to Vergo's abilities there's no proof for you to back that up at all not to mention Smoker's objective wasn't to win and doing so but himself at an advantage from the get go. Vergo used Haki and his signature weapon to put down Smoker who wasn't fighting to win while Vergo easily overpowered Sanji without Haki and without his bamboo stick.

Nothing to suggest he had knowledge? Not sure if serious. Dude, Smoker was transferred in the G5 since 2years prior. They know each other to the point Vergo was even saying that Smoker should know he is the superior haki user or that Smoker was fighting differently than usual. And because Smoker didn't fight to win doesn't prove much considering that nothing could have stopped him to retrieve Law's heart over Vergo's body. He changed his strategy simply because he knew he couldn't win to begin with

In regards to Doflamingo it isn't really a fair situation...Smoker who was without his main weapon and also was injured from the Haki hits he took from Vergo hits that cracked Sanji's bones not to mention Doflamingo was angry and serious against Smoker he wasn't playing around like he did with Sanji.

Sanji's meal was supposed to bring them back at full power and even if you don't believe he was right, i don't think he was completely wrong to the point Smoker was helpless. Smoker was even the one who attacked Doflamingo first and honestly minor injuries don't mean much at this point especially when you see what Law is capable of(in a far wose shape). You didn't hear me giving the excuse that Sanji got a beat down by Violet prior to his confrontation with Doflamingo. If i were to create an excuse, i'd give that one as well. I didn't however because it's close to meaningless. Sure he didn't have his jutte however, but it's not like his jutte alone made the man. Smoker is a brawler first with the jutte being a secondarily weapon in his fighting style

Again rank doesn't mean everything feats and portrayal suggest Vergo was far greater than current Pica who without his huge golem hasn't shown anything impressive. Vergo was beat by Law who is stronger than Zoro so portrayal wise wouldn't that prove Vergo's superiority by your logic? Also there's no proof Luffy is going to beat Doflamingo on his own so far Law has had to help him land a hit on Doflamingo.

I think the fact that their subordinates are capable to hold their own against high tiers like Chinjao(who in a weaker form gave Luffy a mid difficulty fight) is already telling enough concerning the level of the seats. It's not just rank-wise. Their power was clearly scopped to be on a general level with Vergo. The rank was just to parallel it with the fact that while seats have similar rank with Vergo, Smoker has a rank underneath Vergo.

And yes Law did beat Vergo, but it doesn't prove anything with Zoro considering he didn't beat Vergo with that much difficulty. So even if Zoro were weaker than Law, it doesn't prove Zoro couldn't beat Vergo as well. Also, i personally don't think Zoro's portrayal is that far below Law's to begin with unlike Vergo. And no, Luffy will beat Doflamingo. Those who really think otherwise should begin to stop arguing or reading another manga. One Piece writing has always been similar. What makes you think it will change during this arc? Especially when the admiral who never loses his bets decided to bet on Luffy? Seriously i don't understand people who still want to argue otherwise at this point. Law is done for at this point(without an arm, blood loss, inability to fight). Doflamingo is still relatively fresh, albeit likely weakened. Luffy is alone there however as a natural enemy. Who do you think will defeat him?

So no, i disagree. Luffy will be shown to be stronger than Law when he will defeat Doflamingo, an opponent Law couldn't push very far. As it stands, Law's portrayal puts him above the seats(in the mid-high difficulty range) while being weaker than Doflamingo(in the mid range), puting him around Zoro's range portrayal-wise. Luffy who will defeat Doflamingo(likely weakened) will put him above their range portrayal-wise

Reality is Smoker is Luffy's rival not Zoro's not Sanji's but Luffy's story wise and character wise it makes more sense for Smoker to be on a similar level to Luffy otherwise what has Oda been building up for the last 10 years.

You know who else are rivals? Tashigi and Zoro. Would you say Tashigi is close to Zoro's level? So it doesn't mean anything

So what it really comes down to is you either believe that Oda has been wasting the last 10 years building the rivalry between Smoker and Luffy and has thrown it away to the point Luffy can mid diff Smoker.

Why not? Why do you think that because they are rivals, it would mean they would be equals at every point in the manga? In DBZ, Vegeta was stronger than Goku since he was born until his introduction. In Namek, Goku became blatantly stronger than Vegeta. In the Cybord saga, Vegeta became slightly stronger and after that, Goku's superiority became clearer and clearer. The rivarly doesn't mean they will be equals in every saga. The time when you'll realise this and understand the current portrayal, maybe then you'll see the light

So yes i believe at this point Smoker isn't Luffy level, Smoker isn't Law level, Smoker isn't Vergo level, Smoker isn't Zoro level. He may be Sanji level. It's the facts that are presented currently

 

[kuramasage]

I feel Smoker will return after the end of this saga, with the StrawHearts having defeated Kaido. It would be awesome if he came back and beat Luffy after he helped beat a Yonko.

 

[Waindo]

I think his development will be nerfed, so Coby can become Luffy's rival. Sad but true. Smokey had potential though.

 

[TheHokage]

High difficulty? The dude didn't even need to go into the full body haki mode to defeat him, even adding that Smoker had no chance to begin with. The difficulty was similar to the one with Sanji, although in the Sanji-Vergo one it was a short skirmich and none really went all out, which was the only difference

No it wasn't the fact Vergo used CoA Haki and the fact he used his bamboo stick (Vergo's signature weapon) showed the difficulty in their battle was different it's not debatable Smoker had a far more impressive showing than Sanji did and I don't class Sanji as weak at all. The Sanji and Vergo was a short skirmish yeah and like Sanji Smoker was shown to have the upper hand against Vergo had the fight continued between Sanji and Vergo Sanji would have been defeated fairly easily.

And no, Law was blatantly stronger than Vergo. Physical power isn't everything and because Law isn't a physical fighter doesn't make him weaker than more physical powerhouses. Law has other tricks that make him stronger and he proved his superiority over Vergo the moment he got his heart back

Obviously...Vergo was shown to be faster, physically stronger and had greater endurance than Law and yes I do view Law a superior to Vergo only due to his DF though. Vergo is a nightmare to physical type fighters such as Sanji, Smoker, Luffy and even Zoro.

Nothing to suggest he had knowledge? Not sure if serious. Dude, Smoker was transferred in the G5 since 2years prior. They know each other to the point Vergo was even saying that Smoker should know he is the superior haki user or that Smoker was fighting differently than usual. And because Smoker didn't fight to win doesn't prove much considering that nothing could have stopped him to retrieve Law's heart over Vergo's body. He changed his strategy simply because he knew he couldn't win to begin with

So basically it's your opinion that Smoker had prior knowledge to Vergo's abilities? No proof or anything to back up that claim I assume...It's not uncommon for a stronger opponent to mock a weaker one also I'm sure Vergo made that comment after fighting with Smoker so he was able to come to that conclusion.

Yes it really does a tactic in a fight can completely change the outcome of a single fight had Smoker tried to avoid hits rather than take them the fighter would have been a lot more difficult for Vergo and Smoker showed he had the speed to dodge Vergo. Fact is Smoker using a different tactic to his usual one ultimately weakened him slightly. Smoker knew Law's power had what it took to take down a physical brawler like Vergo...yeah well done.

Sanji's meal was supposed to bring them back at full power and even if you don't believe he was right, i don't think he was completely wrong to the point Smoker was helpless. Smoker was even the one who attacked Doflamingo first and honestly minor injuries don't mean much at this point especially when you see what Law is capable of(in a far wose shape). You didn't hear me giving the excuse that Sanji got a beat down by Violet prior to his confrontation with Doflamingo. If i were to create an excuse, i'd give that one as well. I didn't however because it's close to meaningless. Sure he didn't have his jutte however, but it's not like his jutte alone made the man. Smoker is a brawler first with the jutte being a secondarily weapon in his fighting style

So Sanji's meals can heal full Haki blows to the ribs and body yeah? Oh what do we need Chopper then for? Or doctors in general then. There's no way you can actually assume Smoker was at 100% in his confrontation with Doflamingo. It's unfair to say because Law is injured Smoker should have done better because they have two different fighting styles not to mention Law has a far greater knowledge on Doflamingo's powers than Smoker did.

Wow Sanji being beat down is completely the same as being beat down by Vergo isn't it...

Granted the weapon doesn't make Smoker's strength however it contributes and again fact is without it he is even if it's a just a little bit slightly weaker.

I think the fact that their subordinates are capable to hold their own against high tiers like Chinjao(who in a weaker form gave Luffy a mid difficulty fight) is already telling enough concerning the level of the seats. It's not just rank-wise. Their power was clearly scopped to be on a general level with Vergo. The rank was just to parallel it with the fact that while seats have similar rank with Vergo, Smoker has a rank underneath Vergo.

But none of the seats have shown anything to put themselves on a similar level to Vergo. Vergo has always been portrayed as a more significant member in the crew than any of the others aside from perhaps Corazon,

And yes Law did beat Vergo, but it doesn't prove anything with Zoro considering he didn't beat Vergo with that much difficulty. So even if Zoro were weaker than Law, it doesn't prove Zoro couldn't beat Vergo as well. Also, i personally don't think Zoro's portrayal is that far below Law's to begin with unlike Vergo. And no, Luffy will beat Doflamingo. Those who really think otherwise should begin to stop arguing or reading another manga. One Piece writing has always been similar. What makes you think it will change during this arc? Especially when the admiral who never loses his bets decided to bet on Luffy? Seriously i don't understand people who still want to argue otherwise at this point. Law is done for at this point(without an arm, blood loss, inability to fight). Doflamingo is still relatively fresh, albeit likely weakened. Luffy is alone there however as a natural enemy. Who do you think will defeat him?

Feats > Portrayal. Vergo's feats > Zoro's feats. Law's Feats > Zoro's feats...you see the pattern here.

Yeah wow I never said Luffy wouldn't beat Doflamingo I just said he probably wouldn't do it alone and as seen so far he can't I think you're judging the outcome of this fight far to early I know a lot of people are wanting to see a 1 v 1 with Luffy and Doflamingo but nothing Luffy has shown so far suggests he can hang especially considering Law who is either equal or IMO slightly stronger than Luffy was still defeated when battling Doflamingo on his own.

So no, i disagree. Luffy will be shown to be stronger than Law when he will defeat Doflamingo, an opponent Law couldn't push very far. As it stands, Law's portrayal puts him above the seats(in the mid-high difficulty range) while being weaker than Doflamingo(in the mid range), puting him around Zoro's range portrayal-wise. Luffy who will defeat Doflamingo(likely weakened) will put him above their range portrayal-wise

Law is Luffy's rival not Zoro's.

You know who else are rivals? Tashigi and Zoro. Would you say Tashigi is close to Zoro's level? So it doesn't mean anything

Not really rivals...Tashigi has never gave Zoro an equal standing fight. Kuina and Zoro were rivals, Zoro and Sanji are rivals and Zoro and Killer are most likely going to be rivals.

Why not? Why do you think that because they are rivals, it would mean they would be equals at every point in the manga? In DBZ, Vegeta was stronger than Goku since he was born until his introduction. In Namek, Goku became blatantly stronger than Vegeta. In the Cybord saga, Vegeta became slightly stronger and after that, Goku's superiority became clearer and clearer. The rivarly doesn't mean they will be equals in every saga. The time when you'll realise this and understand the current portrayal, maybe then you'll see the light

But the whole point of the Goku and Vegeta rivalry was always the fact Vegeta was one step behind Goku not all the rest of Goku's followers it's like saying Vegeta was weaker than Piccolo despite the fact Vegeta was gunning for Goku.

So yes i believe at this point Smoker isn't Luffy level, Smoker isn't Law level, Smoker isn't Vergo level, Smoker isn't Zoro level. He may be Sanji level. It's the facts that are presented currently

This is why I can't take you seriously I know how much of a Zoro fanboy you are I've seen it in other threads the fact you believe Zoro is Law's level based on portrayal alone points to how much of a fanboy you are. Feat wise Zoro has shown nothing to put him above Smoker and if you want to talk about portrayal this is all I need to see how Oda is portraying these characters.

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Zoro and Sanji are below Luffy, Law and Smoker of course Smoker is currently the weaker of the 3 but he's above Zoro and Sanji.

 

[Bogard]

No it wasn't the fact Vergo used CoA Haki and the fact he used his bamboo stick (Vergo's signature weapon) showed the difficulty in their battle was different it's not debatable Smoker had a far more impressive showing than Sanji did and I don't class Sanji as weak at all. The Sanji and Vergo was a short skirmish yeah and like Sanji Smoker was shown to have the upper hand against Vergo had the fight continued between Sanji and Vergo Sanji would have been defeated fairly easily.

So your saying a Vergo not using full body haki mode was going all out on Smoker?

Obviously...Vergo was shown to be faster, physically stronger and had greater endurance than Law and yes I do view Law a superior to Vergo only due to his DF though. Vergo is a nightmare to physical type fighters such as Sanji, Smoker, Luffy and even Zoro.

Not really. Zoro and Luffy are physically stronger than both Sanji and Smoker. Sanji and Smoker showed superior combat speed to Vergo and Sanji has comparable combat speed to Zoro(the pacifista incident) while Luffy has superior combat speed to both. Zoro and Luffy also have superior range and fire power to Sanji and Smoker. Zoro and Luffy also have superior endurance and durability to both Sanji and Smoker. You see the difference now?

So basically it's your opinion that Smoker had prior knowledge to Vergo's abilities? No proof or anything to back up that claim I assume...It's not uncommon for a stronger opponent to mock a weaker one also I'm sure Vergo made that comment after fighting with Smoker so he was able to come to that conclusion.

No proof? I just proved they knew each other. Trying to deny this is ridiculous at this point

So Sanji's meals can heal full Haki blows to the ribs and body yeah? Oh what do we need Chopper then for? Or doctors in general then. There's no way you can actually assume Smoker was at 100% in his confrontation with Doflamingo. It's unfair to say because Law is injured Smoker should have done better because they have two different fighting styles not to mention Law has a far greater knowledge on Doflamingo's powers than Smoker did.

I don't even understand what you're trying to debate here. Whether Smoker was 100% or not, the fact that a Law in a far worse state could perform much better than Smoker should already say everything

But none of the seats have shown anything to put themselves on a similar level to Vergo. Vergo has always been portrayed as a more significant member in the crew than any of the others aside from perhaps Corazon,

Once again i'm not denying that Vergo has been put in a better light compared to them. I'm only saying that they remain in his general level however and i gave the fact that their subordinates can hold their own against Chinjao level fighters as proof that they are there unlike what you're claiming

Feats > Portrayal. Vergo's feats > Zoro's feats. Law's Feats > Zoro's feats...you see the pattern here.

In this case no because unlike Law who has already showed his limits due to the situations where he has been put, Zoro didn't, so because of this it's impossible to scap Zoro's real level featwise and in this case then, portrayal is more important. Law has better feats than Luffy as well, but Luffy better portrayal as it stands. I also disagree with the Vergo having better feats. The only feat Vergo has over Zoro currently is in terms of haki and that is only because Zoro's level of haki hasn't been developed yet. In other areas, Zoro is comparable if not completely superior to him. Zoro even by feats is above Vergo and i already explained why

Zoro and Luffy are physically stronger than both Sanji and Smoker. Sanji and Smoker showed superior combat speed to Vergo and Sanji has comparable combat speed to Zoro(the pacifista incident) while Luffy has superior combat speed to both, so both Zoro and Luffy have superior combat speed to Vergo(with Luffy having a greater speed gap). Zoro and Luffy also have superior range and fire power to Sanji and Smoker. Zoro and Luffy also have superior endurance and durability to both Sanji and Smoker. You see the difference now?

Yeah wow I never said Luffy wouldn't beat Doflamingo I just said he probably wouldn't do it alone and as seen so far he can't I think you're judging the outcome of this fight far to early I know a lot of people are wanting to see a 1 v 1 with Luffy and Doflamingo but nothing Luffy has shown so far suggests he can hang especially considering Law who is either equal or IMO slightly stronger than Luffy was still defeated when battling Doflamingo on his own.

Nothing has shown Luffy can beat Flamingo? We've not seen Luffy go all out, so how do you rate his level?

Law is Luffy's rival not Zoro's.

I know that, but Law is a weaker rival portrayal-wise, so it doesn't tell much

Not really rivals...Tashigi has never gave Zoro an equal standing fight. Kuina and Zoro were rivals, Zoro and Sanji are rivals and Zoro and Killer are most likely going to be rivals.

They are rivals. Rivals are people competing in the same area to accomplish similar objectives. Both are swordsmen and Tashigi's goal is to defeat all swordsmen and collect their swords when Zoro wants to stands above any swordsmen. They are much more the representation of rivals than Sanji or Killer. Because they are rivals doesn't mean they should be equal however and that was the point

But the whole point of the Goku and Vegeta rivalry was always the fact Vegeta was one step behind Goku not all the rest of Goku's followers it's like saying Vegeta was weaker than Piccolo despite the fact Vegeta was gunning for Goku.

During the namek saga, Frieza was stronger than Vegeta while being weaker than Goku. At some points, Gohan surpassed Vegeta's level of strength as well. During the namek saga, there have been some points where Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta

This is why I can't take you seriously I know how much of a Zoro fanboy you are I've seen it in other threads the fact you believe Zoro is Law's level based on portrayal alone points to how much of a fanboy you are. Feat wise Zoro has shown nothing to put him above Smoker and if you want to talk about portrayal this is all I need to see how Oda is portraying these characters.

Or you simply can't accept facts due to your Smoker fanboyism. At least i present evidences but you don't even reply properly

Spoiler

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Not sure if serious. What are you even trying to prove here? Because they are standing side by side? You want me to show you pages where Luffy,Zoro and Law are standing sides by sides as well? You're terribly grasping at this point

Zoro and Sanji are below Luffy, Law and Smoker of course Smoker is currently the weaker of the 3 but he's above Zoro and Sanji.

Because you said so?

 

[Hexuze]

Why is it so hard to accept that Smoker is on the same level as Luffy or at least close to his strength? You're really going to base it off a fight with Vergo where he was trying to retrieve Law's heart? Lol He was hurting Vergo more than Sanji/Law (before he sliced him in half) were.

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Oda wouldn't place him with Luffy & Law if he was weaker than Sanji or at least portray him to be on their level.

 

[Bogard]

So you agree Cavendish is Luffy/Zoro/Law level?

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[Hexuze]

So you agree Cavendish is Luffy/Zoro/Law level?

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Nope, it's different from the image I've shown. The volume COVER shows Luffy, Law & Smoker together, no one else (other than CC but he was the "villain" of the arc). Try finding a volume cover that's relevantly similar because that's a colour spread.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So you agree Cavendish is Luffy/Zoro/Law level?

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Let's not forget Baby 5 and Buffalo.

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[Punk Hazard]

Nope, it's different from the image I've shown. The volume COVER shows Luffy, Law & Smoker together, no one else (other than CC but he was the "villain" of the arc). Try finding a volume cover that's relevantly similar because that's a colour spread.

I took the liberty of doing so myself. Here's another one showing Kyros is on the level of Luffy, Law and Zoro.

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[Hexuze]

I took the liberty of doing so myself. Here's another one showing Kyros is on the level of Luffy, Law and Zoro.

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There's like 8 different characters on that cover, still not the same as the one I've posted.. Why would Oda place three characters side by side (Luffy/Law/Smoker) like that for a volume? You can say that it's because their relevance in the arc but cmon it's Oda. He at least puts some thought to making his volume covers. Smoker is on/near the same level as Luffy is.

@Bogard

Spoiler

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Yeah, so pretty much Oda is going to develop a rivalry between Smoker and Luffy for YEARS, only to have Luffy low-mid diff. him?(since you said Sanji can defeat him) Yeah, lmao this isn't kishimoto. You know what, I guess Zoro ain't going to be the WSS anymore since he got taken out by the yeti cool bros. No WSS title for Zoro U_U He f*cked up once. It's over for the development/progression we got from him since pre-TS.

 

[Punk Hazard]

There's like 8 different characters on that cover, still not the same as the one I've posted.. Why would Oda place three characters side by side (Luffy/Law/Smoker) like that for a volume? You can say that it's because their relevance in the arc but cmon it's Oda. He at least puts some thought to making his volume covers. Smoker is on/near the same level as Luffy is.

@Bogard

Spoiler

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Yeah, so pretty much Oda is going to develop a rivalry between Smoker and Luffy for YEARS, only to have Luffy low-mid diff. him?(since you said Sanji can defeat him) Yeah, lmao this isn't kishimoto. You know what, I guess Zoro ain't going to be the WSS anymore since he got taken out by the yeti cool bros. No WSS title for Zoro U_U He f*cked up once. It's over for the development/progression we got from him since pre-TS.

LMAO I almost don't wanna respond because how much you're reaching right now in freakin' desperation.

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Momonosuke on Sanji's level.

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Nami and Usopp on Luffy's and Zoro's level.

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These snakes are on Luffy's level.

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Strawhat Crew members are all on the same level, which includes Rayleigh.

Need I go on, or do you see that being in the same spot as someone on the volume covers does not mean same level yet?

 

[Hexuze]

LMAO I almost don't wanna respond because how much you're reaching right now in freakin' desperation.

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Momonosuke on Sanji's level.

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Nami and Usopp on Luffy's and Zoro's level.

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These snakes are on Luffy's level.

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Strawhat Crew members are all on the same level, which includes Rayleigh.

Need I go on, or do you see that being in the same spot as someone on the volume covers does not mean same level yet?

It seems like you never read my response. Those covers aren't even relevantly similar to the ones I've posted. You'll never find a volume cover as similar as that. It's not like it's the basis of why I think Smoker is on/near the level of Luffy either. Just something I wanted to point out.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It seems like you never read my response. Those covers aren't even relevantly similar to the ones I've posted. You'll never find a volume cover as similar as that. It's not like it's the basis of why I think Smoker is on/near the level of Luffy either. Just something I wanted to point out.

Oh yeah, Oda drew 74 covers that are all the same in meaning, and one, just one, that is meant to say that. Whatever you say fam.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

It seems like you never read my response. Those covers aren't even relevantly similar to the ones I've posted. You'll never find a volume cover as similar as that. It's not like it's the basis of why I think Smoker is on/near the level of Luffy either. Just something I wanted to point out.

It was like that because Luffy, Law, and Smoker were the three main protagonists of the arc. Zoro>Smoker

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[Bogard]

It was like that because Luffy, Law, and Smoker were the three main protagonists of the arc. Zoro>Smoker

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Exactly this. In the following cover even(when it came to battle), Tashigi appeared for some reason

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[TheHokage]

So your saying a Vergo not using full body haki mode was going all out on Smoker?

I never said Vergo was going all out did I...I said Vergo was trying harder against Smoker than he was with Sanji

Not really. Zoro and Luffy are physically stronger than both Sanji and Smoker. Sanji and Smoker showed superior combat speed to Vergo and Sanji has comparable combat speed to Zoro(the pacifista incident) while Luffy has superior combat speed to both. Zoro and Luffy also have superior range and fire power to Sanji and Smoker. Zoro and Luffy also have superior endurance and durability to both Sanji and Smoker. You see the difference now?

How do you know Zoro are physically stronger than Smoker there's proof of that there's no proof that Luffy is physically stronger either...Sanji and Smoker are comparable in speed as both of them showed they were faster than Vergo there's never been an opponent where Zoro or Luffy have bested Smoker in physical strength alone to back up your claim which ultimately...makes it your opinion.

No proof? I just proved they knew each other. Trying to deny this is ridiculous at this point

How so? Vergo was shown to be an undercover officer for Doflamingo what's to say he would show Smoker his power. It's not ridiculous at all the fact you make the claim that person A would know person B's strength automatically on the basis they know each other is ridiculous. Luffy knows Zoro do you think he knows everything that Zoro can do at this moment?

I don't even understand what you're trying to debate here. Whether Smoker was 100% or not, the fact that a Law in a far worse state could perform much better than Smoker should already say everything

Give Smoker the Ope Ope No Mi so he can teleport and throw objects towards Doflamingo and give Law Smoker's power the outcome would be the same.

Once again i'm not denying that Vergo has been put in a better light compared to them. I'm only saying that they remain in his general level however and i gave the fact that their subordinates can hold their own against Chinjao level fighters as proof that they are there unlike what you're claiming

But there's nothing to back up your argument they are even near the same level other than a rank which as we've seen in multiple cases throughout One Piece Rank doesn't equal strength same way bounties don't.

In this case no because unlike Law who has already showed his limits due to the situations where he has been put, Zoro didn't, so because of this it's impossible to scap Zoro's real level featwise and in this case then, portrayal is more important. Law has better feats than Luffy as well, but Luffy better portrayal as it stands. I also disagree with the Vergo having better feats. The only feat Vergo has over Zoro currently is in terms of haki and that is only because Zoro's level of haki hasn't been developed yet. In other areas, Zoro is comparable if not completely superior to him. Zoro even by feats is above Vergo and i already explained why

Uhmm just because Zoro hasn't shown us everything doesn't mean you can make up feats and overhype portrayal...

Actually Vergo has Haki, speed, endurance over Zoro.

Nothing has shown Luffy can beat Flamingo? We've not seen Luffy go all out, so how do you rate his level?

Correct we haven't seen Luffy go all out but similar to the point with Zoro you can't make up feats that he could do just because he 'hasn't gone all out' we don't even know how much Luffy has left holding back. I can rate Luffy by what we've seen not by what we think.

I know that, but Law is a weaker rival portrayal-wise, so it doesn't tell much

Not really in regards to pirates Law and Kidd where portrayed as equals to Luffy and since PTS Law has been portrayed as better.

They are rivals. Rivals are people competing in the same area to accomplish similar objectives. Both are swordsmen and Tashigi's goal is to defeat all swordsmen and collect their swords when Zoro wants to stands above any swordsmen. They are much more the representation of rivals than Sanji or Killer. Because they are rivals doesn't mean they should be equal however and that was the point

No not really rivals can be between anything personality, love etc...rivals aren't limited to power and that is the case with Tashigi and Zoro.

During the namek saga, Frieza was stronger than Vegeta while being weaker than Goku. At some points, Gohan surpassed Vegeta's level of strength as well. During the namek saga, there have been some points where Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta

While this is off topic...it would make no sense for Smoker to be as weak as you portray him to be in this situation as Zoro and Luffy's growth rate are exceptional if Smoker was as weak as you say he'd never catch up to them or surpass them like Vegeta did.

Or you simply can't accept facts due to your Smoker fanboyism. At least i present evidences but you don't even reply properly

You don't provide facts just twisted misinterpretations.

Not sure if serious. What are you even trying to prove here? Because they are standing side by side? You want me to show you pages where Luffy,Zoro and Law are standing sides by sides as well? You're terribly grasping at this point

Nope the point was them 3 where viewed as the strongest protagonist of that arc.

Because you said so?

Well also because Oda is going to continue having Smoker fight Luffy and not Zoro and Sanji and story wise it wouldn't make sense for Smoker to go after the captain if he was weaker than all 3 of the M3 it's called logic and common sense.

 

[Sweet Pudding]

The same way we know Zoro will surpass Mihawk, same way we know Coby will become an admiral or how Luffy will become Pirate King because it makes sense story wise for Smoker to be nearly as strong as Luffy is. Smoker has been chasing Luffy since East Blue and across the Grandline Oda has been consistent with this. Please Smoker has shown more than Sanji feat wise the fact you believe he's weaker than the third strongest in the crew when he's in fact gunning for the strongest shows how much you underrate Smoker.

Has the power to predict the future^

 

[Bogard]

@TheHokage i will make this brief. Just look yourself at how things are going currently

1- You say yourself Vergo didn't go all out and he still defeated Smoker. That makes the difficulty of the fight being moderate. Same Vergo is weaker than Law

2- Law defeated Smoker with moderate difficulty at most while having a lot of things left in the bag during that fight like the size of the room, radio knife, injection shot and other things like that(so Smoker defeated mid difficulty while holding back)

3- Doflamingo low diffed Smoker and even if you believe his health and jutte had things to do with it, the fact that Doflamingo is stronger than Vergo should already tell you the outcome wouldn't have been that much different

4- Regardless of where you rate Luffy, he should at the very least as strong as Law if not stronger and Law himself could probably low diff Smoker at full potential. Mid diff if i were generous

5- The same Doflamingo who can low diff Smoker is about to be beaten by Luffy(imo). Even if it's very likely it will be a weakened Doflamingo, it would at the very least prove Luffy can operate at his level(that at least Doflamingo would require high difficulty to beat Luffy at full power)

It's basically how i see things. Now please tell me what is wrong with my premise if i think he isn't there yet?

 

[TheHokage]

Has the power to predict the future^

No it's called plot.

@TBogard

You're hopeless just keep believing that Luffy, Law and Zoro can low diff Smoker like an idiot just keep on ignoring story consistency and it's characters in order to overrate your favorites while downplaying characters you don't like.

Fact is Oda wouldn't have Luffy saying a fight with Smoker who isn't at full power would be annoying unless Smoker at full power could push Luffy to a high/extreme diff fight. Fact is Smoker has been chasing Luffy since East Blue and has beat him twice Luffy has yet to beat Smoker. Fact is Oda wouldn't be having Smoker gunning for Luffy unless Smoker could give him challenge. Smoker is the marine with possibly the most appearances in the series so far and has ultimately cemented his significance to the story, if Smoker was as weak as you state he'd have no relevance now to the story.

I look forward to the re-appearance of Smoker and watching the excuses you make on how he is still weaker than Zoro and also I look forward to seeing you and others rage at the fact Luffy hasn't and isn't going to solo Doflamingo.