[Discussion] Smoker vs Luffy

[Punk Hazard]

Considering their portrayal, they should be close. In a serious fight with full knowledge on Law's abilities(basically in the situation where Vergo was), Law shouldn't win with anything less than high/extreme difficulty if he even can(i think Luffy is stronger). If you think otherwise, then you're delusional

Yeah except Luffy doesn't have full knowledge on his abilities. In a realistic fight scenario, Luffy knows nothing about Law's powers. Luffy also goofs off in the beginning of a fight and charges head on. These are the reasons he loses. Even if Luffy has more power than Law, by portrayal of personalities, knowledge, and fighting styles, Luffy loses in any realistic scenario. If you can award Luffy knowledge that he has never possessed what's stopping me from saying Luffy starts the fight asleep, or with no arms, or while hypnotized?

@Bolded: The fact that you think Luffy beats Law makes you delusional. Yeah, it's literally that easy to say, I hope you didn't think that bolded part actually meant anything or made you any more right.

 

[Bogard]

Yeah except Luffy doesn't have full knowledge on his abilities. In a realistic fight scenario, Luffy knows nothing about Law's powers. Luffy also goofs off in the beginning of a fight and charges head on. These are the reasons he loses. Even if Luffy has more power than Law, by portrayal of personalities, knowledge, and fighting styles, Luffy loses in any realistic scenario.

And the point of the post? I'm judging them in terms of level not in a situational advantage(even Caesar can defeat Luffy in a no knowledge situation), hence only the full knowledge situation can determine the difference in level between 2 people and it is for that reason i gave the Vergo scenario as an example to prove that at equal amount of knowledge, Luffy should perform better than Vergo considering he should be closer(actually stronger in my opinion) to Law

 

[Hexuze]

going full body haki is underestimating him? Also, if true he was underestimating him, it doesn't stop him to not use observation haki, since he didn't hold off on using his final form.

He went full body CoA because he was pissed & Vergo was underestimating Law when he got his heart back. Both Vergo/Doflamingo underestimated Law's expertise in his DF, they assumed that he won't be able to cut someone in half with that caliber of haki.

 

[Punk Hazard]

And the point of the post? I'm judging them in terms of level not in a situational advantage(even Caesar can defeat Luffy in a no knowledge situation), hence only the full knowledge situation can determine the difference in level between 2 people and it is for that reason i gave the Vergo scenario as an example to prove that at equal amount of knowledge, Luffy should perform better than Vergo considering he should be closer(actually stronger in my opinion) to Law

Yes, whether or not Luffy has knowledge on Law's powers greatly impacts the fight. In the manga, Luffy does not have any knowledge on Law's powers aside from he can cut and teleport, and even with those powers, that's where his knowledge ends. We use what's in the manga, therefore, any fight thread on NB where Luffy has knowledge on Law's powers is a BS scenario. The fact of the matter is, knowledge is one of the many factors of a fight. If Luffy dies in a fight due to lack of knowledge despite being stronger, then his over all level is lower, he loses. Plain and simple.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Luffy and Law were portrayed as around equal pre-time skip.

Luffy during time-skip trained pretty hard. Law take it easy and didn't go to the NW right away.

Luffy at this point should be more powerful than Law. Law is actually closer to Zoro than to Luffy in power.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Luffy and Law were portrayed as around equal pre-time skip.

Luffy during time-skip trained pretty hard. Law take it easy and didn't go to the NW right away.

Luffy at this point should be more powerful than Law. Law is actually closer to Zoro than to Luffy in power.

And you know Law took it easy the entire timeskip, how? Do you honestly think Law wasted time during the timeskip? Even if he didn't go the NW right away, he still went to the New World long before Luffy.

 

[Bogard]

Yes, whether or not Luffy has knowledge on Law's powers greatly impacts the fight. In the manga, Luffy does not have any knowledge on Law's powers aside from he can cut and teleport, and even with those powers, that's where his knowledge ends. We use what's in the manga, therefore, any fight thread on NB where Luffy has knowledge on Law's powers is a BS scenario. The fact of the matter is, knowledge is one of the many factors of a fight. If Luffy dies in a fight due to lack of knowledge despite being stronger, then his over all level is lower, he loses. Plain and simple.

And you keep not understanding the point. I could careless if Law would win a fight in a no knowledge situation. I'm just rating their level

Luffy and Law were portrayed as around equal pre-time skip.

Luffy during time-skip trained pretty hard. Law take it easy and didn't go to the NW right away.

Luffy at this point should be more powerful than Law. Law is actually closer to Zoro than to Luffy in power.

It's roughly what i think as well except i actually think Luffy was portrayed stronger even preskip. So after training with Rayleigh, it wouldn't make sense if Law was equal to him, let alone stronger. Similarly, Law should be barely stronger than Zoro at this point if any

 

[Punk Hazard]

And you keep not understanding the point. I could careless if Law would win a fight in a no knowledge situation. I'm just rating their level


It's roughly what i think as well except i actually think Luffy was portrayed stronger even preskip. So after training with Rayleigh, it wouldn't make sense if Law was equal to him, let alone stronger. Similarly, Law should be barely stronger than Zoro at this point if any

No I understand your point. Luffy has more power than Law, big whoop. The fact that Luffy lacks knowledge on Law's power greatly inhibits him and is ultimately why Law wins, so Law is ahead of Luffy regardless of what level you put them on.

 

[Savage Predator]

He went full body CoA because he was pissed & Vergo was underestimating Law when he got his heart back. Both Vergo/Doflamingo underestimated Law's expertise in his DF, they assumed that he won't be able to cut someone in half with that caliber of haki.

it still doesn't matter since he knew law was going to attack, and he wasn't holding back in haki usage. Vergo wanted law to be crushed and humiliated, and even if he though law's haki wasn't strong enough to hurt him, he would have never let law land a strike on him, which would have boasted law's ego. Hence he would have used observation haki to not let law land a strike

 

[Forbidden Tale]

And you know Law took it easy the entire timeskip, how? Do you honestly think Law wasted time during the timeskip? Even if he didn't go the NW right away, he still went to the New World long before Luffy.

1. Didn't I say that he did he took easy at the beginning. Because, I think this sentence that mean, "Law take it easy and didn't go to the NW right away.".

He took easy and didn't go to NW right away, but once he entered NW he got serious.

2. He did, enter NW before Luffy, but I don't see how that make any difference. I would say that trainings with Silvers and Mihawk are better than just being in NW.

It's roughly what i think as well except i actually think Luffy was portrayed stronger even preskip. So after training with Rayleigh, it wouldn't make sense if Law was equal to him, let alone stronger. Similarly, Law should be barely stronger than Zoro at this point if any

I actually wanted to be generous in that reply to Law and I would also lean toward Luffy pre-time skip.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Didn't I say that he did he took easy at the beginning. Because, I think this sentence that mean, "Law take it easy and didn't go to the NW right away.".

He took easy and didn't go to NW right away, but once he entered NW he got serious.

2. He did, enter NW before Luffy, but I don't see how that make any difference. I would say that trainings with Silvers and Mihawk are better than just being in NW.



I actually wanted to be generous in that reply to Law and I would also lean toward Luffy pre-time skip.

At the same time Law was taking it easy, Luffy was recuperating from his injuries at the war, so it cancels out. The fact of the matter is, you don't know how hard Law trained, how long, etc. Even if Luffy's and Zoro's training sesh was better than Law's, it doesn't automatically make them stronger. Luffy has been self-taught, Sanji had master martial artist Zeff and Zoro had his dojo. Who was the strongest of the three by the time they got together again?

 

[Forbidden Tale]

At the same time Law was taking it easy, Luffy was recuperating from his injuries at the war, so it cancels out. The fact of the matter is, you don't know how hard Law trained, how long, etc. Even if Luffy's and Zoro's training sesh was better than Law's, it doesn't automatically make them stronger. Luffy has been self-taught, Sanji had master martial artist Zeff and Zoro had his dojo. Who was the strongest of the three by the time they got together again?

Talent is also one big factor there. Luffy is just more talented than Zoro and Sanji. And when we are talking about talent, let's analyze Law as well. 24 years old Law (who trained with Donquixote Pirates once and had a lot of time to train after that) was portrayed to be equal with 17 years old Luffy (who just self taught himself).

First time these three met they were nearly equal in power, gap was made evident latter in Grand Line.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Talent is one big factor there. Luffy is just more talented than Zoro and Sanji. And when we are talking about talent, let's analyze Law as well. 24 years old Law (who trained with Donquixote Pirates once and had a lot of time to train after that) was portrayed to be equal with 17 years old Luffy (who just self taught himself).

And how are you measuring talent? Was it ever said explicitly they had less talent than Law or Luffy? You can't say for a fact that Law has less talent than Luffy.

Oh, so now Luffy is self-taught. Two posts ago, it was "Luffy had Rayleigh yo, he HAS to be better than Law." Now it's "Luffy is self-taught, while Law was trained 17 years ago and has been self-taught since, Luffy is clearly more talented since they're equal." Okay, bud.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

And how are you measuring talent? Was it ever said explicitly they had less talent than Law or Luffy? You can't say for a fact that Law has less talent than Luffy.

How am I measuring talent? Through their fights they grow stronger. Luffy got strongest, Zoro got second strongest, Sanji got third strongest. Even thought they all fight, monster trio ended Luffy > Zoro > Sanji. Some people just has more talent than others.

Oh, so now Luffy is self-taught. Two posts ago, it was "Luffy had Rayleigh yo, he HAS to be better than Law." Now it's "Luffy is self-taught, while Law was trained 17 years ago and has been self-taught since, Luffy is clearly more talented since they're equal." Okay, bud.

Luffy was self taught before series start, he had cool teacher during time-skip... I don't see a problem here. Don't grasp at straws and make assumptions too fast, bud.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

Thread went off topic so quickly...

 

[Bogard]

Thread went off topic so quickly...

It's not really off-topic because it's important to rate the difference in level between Smoker and Luffy

 

[Hexuze]

it still doesn't matter since he knew law was going to attack, and he wasn't holding back in haki usage. Vergo wanted law to be crushed and humiliated, and even if he though law's haki wasn't strong enough to hurt him, he would have never let law land a strike on him, which would have boasted law's ego. Hence he would have used observation haki to not let law land a strike

Lol My point still stands, he assumed that Law's ability won't be able to cut through his Haki. He never saw him as a threat. Vergo wouldn't have been able to dodge Law's attack either way, you have to remember the range of Law's attack was enormous, he not only cut the factory in half but also a couple of mountains. CoA is what protects you in Law's room from getting cut, not observation haki since Law has full control in his room. (assuming he can react quick enough) So saying Vergo's CoO is weak or it's not up there with Luffy's is false. We haven't seen much of his CoO feats to base where he is, I wouldn't make the assumption that his CoO is superior/inferior to Luffy's.

 

[ultraChalk]

For the purpose of the thread, intangibility is off. These 2 face in different arcs

Scenario1 Logue town Smoker vs Logue town Luffy

Scenario2 Alabasta Smoker vs Alabasta Luffy

Scenario3 War arc Smoker vs War arc Luffy

Scenario4 Current Smoker vs Current Luffy

Who wins each scenario and with what amount of difficulty?

1) Smoker.

2) Smoker.

3) Smoker.

4) Luffy.

 

[A v i]

Smoker fodder stomps Luffy in s1-s3 and Luffy mid diffs Smoker in S4.


IMO Luffy is above Smokers level or on par with him at the time of Alabasta and MF but he'd lose against Smoker because he can't hit him.

I disagree. Vergo is a much more experienced fighter than Luffy.

He's more experienced than Law, what happened to him? His experience didn't helped him to estimate how strong his opponents attack is which is why he was easily defeated by Law.

Talent is also one big factor there. Luffy is just more talented than Zoro and Sanji. And when we are talking about talent, let's analyze Law as well. 24 years old Law (who trained with Donquixote Pirates once and had a lot of time to train after that) was portrayed to be equal with 17 years old Luffy (who just self taught himself).

First time these three met they were nearly equal in power, gap was made evident latter in Grand Line.

Law isn't just a pirate. He's a great doctor which means that he didn't just spent all of his time to get stronger. Law might have been stronger than Luffy if he had spent more amount of time to get stronger. You should take this kind of aspects into consideration while measuring their potential.

No need to mention Law was sailing the seas and doing other stuff during TS where as everything Luffy did is getting stronger yet Law is on the same level as Luffy or even stronger than him (from what we have seen).

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Law isn't just a pirate. He's a great doctor which means that he didn't just spent all of his time to get stronger. Law might have been stronger than Luffy if he had spent more amount of time to get stronger. You should take this kind of aspects into consideration while measuring their potential.

No need to mention Law was sailing the seas and doing other stuff during TS where as everything Luffy did is getting stronger yet Law is on the same level as Luffy or even stronger than him (from what we have seen).

Because he is doctor, he is not just a pirate??? Lol. Anyway I get what you wanted to say, but his "doctor" abilities come from his devil fruit and help him in battles and also part of his power level.

That's my point, Luffy trained hard, Law took it easy, at least easier than Luffy, considering that both were equals prior to time-skip, Luffy know should be a lot stronger than Law.

Actually Luffy has yet to show his strength in this arc, Law did show more, so he could maybe made impression that he is stronger, but he shouldn't be. That's just impression.