Third Raikage vs third HOKAGE

[Bogard]

Then we come to two issues:

1. Are Hiruzen's Elemental attacks strong enough to damage the Raikage.

Considering the cast net technique could be casted by fodders(including from Konoha), i don't doubt about Hiruzen's fuuton capability. He has the hype to master all ninjutsu in the leaf

2. Is he going to land a direct hit.

Considering Temari and co could, i don't see why not. With enough scale, even his reflexive speed won't bring him far

3. He can just reactivate his Raiton Armor if he isn't put down along with that blast, just like he did with FRS.

True, but that would depend on how fast he does that and on how fast Hiruzen's jutsu combo will hit him

 

[Icelerate]

The Raiton Armor clearly softens the attack. In Base, he was damaged worse by Cast Net than he was by FRS, even though FRS is much stronger, which is because FRS had to go past his Armor to get to his body. Fuuton doesn't magically nullify the Raiton Armor, it breaks through it, Fuuton has the elemental advantage though, so you only require a weaker Fuuton compared to any other element, to break through the Armor.

FRS is a much stronger jutsu than lightning armour and also has an elemental advantage over lightning armour so while I agree raiton armour obviously softened up the attack, it would have still retained a large amount of its power when it hit the 3rd Raikage's body. After reading those panels with FRS and WCN as well as the Anime, FRS actually did more damage even with the lightning armour on.

Considering the cast net technique could be casted by fodders(including from Konoha), i don't doubt about Hiruzen's fuuton capability. He has the hype to master all ninjutsu in the leaf

Proof that it was casted by fodders from Konoha? Proof that Hiruzen is a better fuuton user than Temari?

Considering Temari and co could, i don't see why not. With enough scale, even his reflexive speed won't bring him far

3rd Raikage did not have lightning armour on when he got hit by WCN but ended up dodging FRS twice from a much faster opponent with RNY. FRS is much faster than WCN since it travels an entire mountain range in a split second and is as fast as TBB and YMs. As for the scale of Hiruzen's techniques, it ends up increasing its AoE as the distance the attack travels increases so the energy gets spread out the longer the distance between Hiruzen and his target. Furthermore, at close range, the attack if fairly linear and doesn't have much AoE but at longer ranges, 3rd Raikage will have enough time to move out of the way.

Hiruzen uses a pressure based wind attack to counter the Buddha which is in no way comparable to WCN which holds energy within multiple line segments whereas Hiruzen's contains energy all throughout a surface. Hiruzen's attack distributes energy fairly evenly whereas WCN concentrates it.

3rd Raikage wins low difficulty. Could go more in depth and post scans but I'm not going to waste my time on explaining a stomp matchup.

 

[Vega]

Enma is indestructible therefore he just waits for the Wack Patchy the Pirate to charge then traps him in the Monkey Cage.

 

[LuckyMan]

Proof that it was casted by fodders from Konoha? Proof that Hiruzen is a better fuuton user than Temari?

His one futon he showed is more powerful than any futon Temari has. Not only was his technique severely weakened by ET but also severely weakened because he had to split his chakra 5 times before he used it and he did it by just streaming them from his mouth, no hand seals, and seals are what determine how much chakra is put into a technique so that futon was severely weak compared what he can actually do. Temaris futon is a far cry from his.

 

[Eternal Sage]

he can use katon ot incinerate him and the fuuton attacks can affect him. FRS didnt have an effect but waht happened to raiton armour wasnt shown. his body wasnt affected but he would still be affected by high class fuuton and katon attacks

katon doesn't do sh*t to the lightning armor. Hiruzen has no stronger fuuton than Naruto's FRS

 

[Icelerate]

His one futon he showed is more powerful than any futon Temari has. Not only was his technique severely weakened by ET but also severely weakened because he had to split his chakra 5 times before he used it and he did it by just streaming them from his mouth, no hand seals, and seals are what determine how much chakra is put into a technique so that futon was severely weak compared what he can actually do. Temaris futon is a far cry from his.

Umm what?

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Him splitting his chakra into pieces isn't going to make his elemental jutsu weaker when he has the capacity to perform them in such a state. Him being an edo tensei isn't going to make his jutsu weaker either, as a matter of fact, he gains the ability to spam his higher level jutsu without having to worry about chakra levels. Not to mention Temari's shown much more skill than Hiruzen in terms of manipulating fuuton chakra which makes sense considering that is what she's done her entire life unlike Fodderuzen.

 

[LuckyMan]

Umm what?

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Him splitting his chakra into pieces isn't going to make his elemental jutsu weaker when he has the capacity to perform them in such a state. Him being an edo tensei isn't going to make his jutsu weaker either, as a matter of fact, he gains the ability to spam his higher level jutsu without having to worry about chakra levels. Not to mention Temari's shown much more skill than Hiruzen in terms of manipulating fuuton chakra which makes sense considering that is what she's done her entire life unlike Fodderuzen.

If he split his chakra up then he only has so much he can use with 1 clone, therefore it was weaker.

Being an edo does make ones jutsu weaker. Tobirama, Hiruzen, Rasa, Deidara etc etc are all examples of this.

I'm pretty sure spitting one of the most large scale futon attacks seen in the manga out of your mouth with no hand seals while your chakra is divided 5 times, being 70 years old, and stopping an attack majority of the alliance couldn't (Temari was one of them) is more than enough proof that Hiruzens futon > Temaris futon.

 

[Icelerate]

If he split his chakra up then he only has so much he can use with 1 clone, therefore it was weaker.

Not necessarily as each clone still had 20% of its chakra reserves and unless you are telling me that each elemental jutsu takes 20% of his chakra, then his clone would be able to perform the technique on the full scale. Furthermore even if it is larger and stronger, we can't quantify how much stronger it will be.

Being an edo does make ones jutsu weaker. Tobirama, Hiruzen, Rasa, Deidara etc etc are all examples of this.

Deidara didn't even use any of his jutsu with the exception of C1 which was shown to be rather weak. Those others showed their most impressive feats as edo tensei so you don't really have a basis in your arguments.

I'm pretty sure spitting one of the most large scale futon attacks seen in the manga out of your mouth with no hand seals while your chakra is divided 5 times, being 70 years old, and stopping an attack majority of the alliance couldn't (Temari was one of them) is more than enough proof that Hiruzens futon > Temaris futon.

No this isn't enough proof as the rest of the alliance was running low on chakra and for precisely this reason, Hiruzen was said to be the Alliance's only hope. Hiruzen had the same elemental attack known so he could counter the Buddha's attack. Furthermore, Temari can't counter the other four attacks at the same time. Going by your logic, Hiruzen is a better raiton user than Darui, better doton user than Kitsuchi, better suiton user than Mei... Just cut the wank.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Anyone who is defending Hiruzen shouldn't be worried what his elements would do, concerning damaging the Raikage. Its undeniable that it will at least slow down his Juggernaut rampage. Hiruzen simply has the Raikage hurt himself to weaken him, then goes for the kill. Hiruzen wins by outsmarting him.

 

[Benjamin King]

Hiruzen high diff.

 

[TRE MERCER]

3rd Raikage rips Hiruzen chest open with Nukite and rips his heart out and crushes it...

 

[~Ethereal~]

3rd Raikage is a beast...he wins.

 

[Braiyan]

Raikage wins. He can tank through Hiruzen's non Fuuton attacks with his Raiton armor, and simply dodge his Fuutons if necessary. He also does not need to use one Finger Nukite in this fight, seeing that the 4 finger version itself was strong enough to drill through the alliance's combined earth wall. Thus, Raikage is not likely to die from his own attack, and can rip through most of Hiruzen's defenses with the weakest form of his Nukite. He wins handily.

 

[Conspirator.]

What on earth is going on in this thread? The raikage survived a Rasenshuriken with little damage. That shits on any of Hiruzen's futons. He tanks all of Hiruzen's attacks, and when he tires, he destroys him with a 4 fingered nukite. Btw, there's zero percent chance of Hiruzen beating the Raikage with his "weakness".(the one fingered nukite thing.) Lol

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Btw, there's zero percent chance of Hiruzen beating the Raikage with his "weakness".(the one fingered nukite thing.) Lol

Based on what reasoning?

 

[Haizaki]

Hiruzen beating the Third based on feats is not happening. Nothing in his arsenal stands a chance of harming this guy. He can't sense danger faster than Naruto

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and he's not replicating what Naruto did when he doesn't have the physical capabilities that suggest he can react and attack in that scenario with such speed.

 

[Conspirator.]

Based on what reasoning?

Based on nothing but logic and common sense.

-Hiruzen is not someone with superhuman durability. The raikage doesn't actually need the one fingered nukite to kill him.(whether you believe Hiruzen wins or not, it's undebatable)
- People always reference the gag which Naruto pulled off, but they forget a few critical details. He needed the help of the Hachibi and Dodai to figure out the weakness. But even not considering that, they forget the raikage was being CONTROLLED by Kabuto. Kabuto had no knowledge of the Raikage's weakness. Not even his own son did. The hachibi incident was the Raikage's " life's shame", since he KNEW what happened in the fight, and it hurt his pride. Considering that, it's unlikely the raikage would even try and use the one fingered nukite unless absolutely necessary, and like I said above, the one fingered nukite isn't needed. 4 fingers would kill the third.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-Hiruzen is not someone with superhuman durability. The raikage doesn't actually need the one fingered nukite to kill him.(whether you believe Hiruzen wins or not, it's undebatable)

Hiruzen's durability is irrelevant to how he can defeat Raikage. Who cares if he can't tank his attacks, when you have Bushin feints and Adamantine staff (which either doesn't break or need to activate his higher levels of Nukite).

- People always reference the gag which Naruto pulled off, but they forget a few critical details. He needed the help of the Hachibi and Dodai to figure out the weakness. But even not considering that, they forget the raikage was being CONTROLLED by Kabuto. Kabuto had no knowledge of the Raikage's weakness. Not even his own son did. The hachibi incident was the Raikage's " life's shame", since he KNEW what happened in the fight, and it hurt his pride.

None of these characters are near the intelligence of the professor. This man figured out the priorities of the Juubi Jin, having just meant him in minute. An element master, as he is, is going to figure out the prioritizes of Raikage's Raiton, how powerful his raiton is, and how durability his body is. He WILL figure out his only option base on intelligent feats.

Considering that, it's unlikely the raikage would even try and use the one fingered nukite unless absolutely necessary, and like I said above, the one fingered nukite isn't needed. 4 fingers would kill the third.

He will need higher Nukite to breach Enma's defense. Even if isn't going to use higher Nukite to kill Hiruzen, lower version are still good enough to wound himself (like in canon as he would have died if he used 1 finger on himself), which Hiruzen focuses his damage to defeat him.

Hiruzen beating the Third based on feats is not happening. Nothing in his arsenal stands a chance of harming this guy. He can't sense danger faster than Naruto

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and he's not replicating what Naruto did when he doesn't have the physical capabilities that suggest he can react and attack in that scenario with such speed.

Who cares if he can't harm him once again. He can make him hurt himself. He doesn't need to sense danger faster, unless Hiruzen is planning of facing him head on (which he isn't). He uses Bushin fients and elements to slow him down, then uses his staff to hit himself. Hiruzen's reaction is much superior feats then we have seen others who reacted to V1 Raiton speed.

(will respond later tonight)

 

[Conspirator.]

Hiruzen's durability is irrelevant to how he can defeat Raikage. Who cares if he can't tank his attacks, when you have Bushin feints and Adamantine staff (which either doesn't break or need to activate his higher levels of Nukite).

Still irrelevant, as Hiruzen cannot hurt the Raikage, and the only move in this entire matchup that can hurt him, is the one fingered nukite.

None of these characters are near the intelligence of the professor. This man figured out the priorities of the Juubi Jin, having just meant him in minute. An element master, as he is, is going to figure out the prioritizes of Raikage's Raiton, how powerful his raiton is, and how durability his body is. He WILL figure out his only option base on intelligent feats.

Nothing but your assumption. He basically compared the truth seeker balls to Onoki's jinton(which he had apparently seen before), and worked out it was a better version of it. No evidence that he would figure out the raikage's weakness. Hell, even if by some miracle he finds out, it's only applicable if the raikage actually uses the one fingered nukite, and I see no reason for him to.

He will need higher Nukite to breach Enma's defense. Even if isn't going to use higher Nukite to kill Hiruzen, lower version are still good enough to wound himself (like in canon as he would have died if he used 1 finger on himself), which Hiruzen focuses his damage to defeat him.

He heavily wounded himself with 1 fingered nukite in the manga.(gave him the scar), it didn't kill him. Either way, his 3/4 fingered nukite should have no problems in damaging enma(easily went through a mud wall plus Dodai's rubber IIRC), and I see no reason for that to cause major damage to the raikage.(that is if Hiruzen even comes up with that strategy himself, which won't happen anyway.)

-Hiruzen has no way of putting him down.
-Repeated use of clone feints/elemental spam will wear himself out
-Enma is fodder to the raikage
-3/4 fingered nukite rapes Hiruzen/Enma
-There's black lightning that can be used at mid range, but I won't talk about that has he has no featsthere.

 

[Haizaki]

Who cares if he can't harm him once again. He can make him hurt himself. He doesn't need to sense danger faster, unless Hiruzen is planning of facing him head on (which he isn't). He uses Bushin fients and elements to slow him down, then uses his staff to hit himself. Hiruzen's reaction is much superior feats then we have seen others who reacted to V1 Raiton speed.

(will respond later tonight)

Who cares when you've not given a good reason on how?

Bushins are laughed at when Nukite easily tears past them like here

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or Rather when they can't do a thing to him with his Armor on. Naruto used a Rasengan in SM to push the Third's hand to his chest in a CQC and now we're saying Hiruzen can somehow find a way to do so...The bold doesn't matter, when it takes accuracy to do so. He can't just find a way to randomly hit his hand to his chest when that would only happen if his hand is stretched out forward with a one fingered Nukite being used since it's the only thing that was capable of tearing through him and it's not even required to kill clones or Hiruzen himself. Not even saying he can't react but in a CQC, Hiruzen gets destroyed going by feats...The Third is around Ay's level in V1 in terms of speed.

What even proves you wrong is that the intel here is no intel and you're seriously arguing that Hiruzen is somehow going to do so with no information on Nukite or how he got hurt.