[VS] 7G Gai vs Base Minato

[KidGamer65]

^ Lol, wtf......I pray to God that Bogard isn't serious. If your speed goes up, your reflexes and reaction speed will follow suit.

 

[Haizaki]

^ Lol, wtf......I pray to God that Bogard isn't serious. If your speed goes up, your reflexes and reaction speed will follow suit.

- Implying Base Gai can dodge Amaterasu when the difference is clear between his Base form and his 6G form. Not to mention 6G Gai can't even dodge Amaterasu.

- Implying there's almost no difference between Base Gai and 8G Gai.

At this point, I don't know what to say. Bogard as well believes 6G Gai and Kakashi have equal reaction speed. Thinks the have about the same speed as well. Soo many things went wrong..this guy is actually a good debater and that's why I'm in shock right now.

 

[Benjamin King]

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Lol

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''Dance'' is Madara's concept of fighting when he wants to have fun with his opponent, and not go all out. And he took a full force of Night Guy, which is multiple times stronger than Evening Elephant. Explain to me how he didn't die and was constantly taking Evening Elephant 5 steps without being finished, in which Gai was surprised?

To make a note of something, reflexes and reactions don't go faster when you speed up. Reaction time comes from the brain processing signals after Gai had already seen his opponent make a move, and that doesn't increase from speed but from Gai's natural brain response. Reflexes are dependent on how good one's reactions are. So you're wrong on the matter of reflexes and reactions increasing when one becomes faster.

But at the same time, T Bogard is also wrong. Chakra burst out from the brain when Gai opens the gates, so it's natural if he's able to visuals images and react faster than in base.

 

[KidGamer65]

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''Dance'' is Madara's concept of fighting when he wants to have fun with his opponent, and not go all out. And he took a full force of Night Guy, which is multiple times stronger than Evening Elephant.

Gonna need evidence for the bold, but as I also repeat below, Madara said he didn't want to get hit, so he was trying not to get hit. Nothing you say changes that. Whether or not it didn't kill him doesn't mean that he wanted to get hit, cause he said he didn't.

Explain to me how he didn't die and was constantly taking Evening Elephant 5 steps without being finished, in which Gai was surprised?

Whether he died or not was irrelevant, he clearly stated that he didn't want to get hit, so its not debatable. He didn't want to get hit.

To make a note of something, reflexes and reactions don't go faster when you speed up. Reaction time comes from the brain processing signals after Gai had already seen his opponent make a move, and that doesn't increase from speed but from Gai's natural brain response. Reflexes are dependent on how good one's reactions are. So you're wrong on the matter of reflexes and reactions increasing when one becomes faster.

Juubito blitzed KCM Naruto w/ no reaction, yet BSM Naruto was tracking his speed and Rikudo Naruto casually reacts to Obito's level of speed. Unless you are saying Base Naruto can react as well as Rikudo Naruto, you are wrong on this point. The faster you get, the faster things you will be able to react to. Lets quantify reactions with the number 0. You aren't going to go from 0 to 100 in speed, only to have a reaction level of 0, cause then you'd get blitzed by people who move just as fast as you do, and we all know that stuff like that makes no sense.

 

[Haizaki]

But at the same time, T Bogard is also wrong. Chakra burst out from the brain when Gai opens the gates, so it's natural if he's able to visuals images and react faster than in base.

This is all we need. Gates enhance Gai's physical capabilities. Therefore if one becomes faster, they can react faster.

Lee explains it best here:

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"Back then I said if you can see but your body can't move, it's useless...but now you have the same body speed as I do"

Implying that Sasuke could see but yet couldn't react before but when Sasuke gained Lee's speed, things were different.

 

[Gold Lightning]

If hand seals aren't required, why is he using it here

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. Once AT is released and given it could be release on Susanoo before it could complete its sword stab

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, I doubt Minato would use the hand seal and then teleport it elsewhere with such time since it's a super fast punch.



Don't know about it being able to extend its range to match Asakujaku's but if Minato uses it to protect himself, his clones are left vulnerable since Asakujaku's range exceeds the given range of the barrier.

I don't know why he used hand signs there, but the evidence is there that he doesn't need hand signs for the jutsu. Why he sometimes uses hand seals for ftg, when he doesn't need to is beyond me as well. Point is, he doesn't need hand seals for the jutsu. Minato's hand speed may not be the same level as 7 gate guy, but it's certainly fast enough for him to lift up his kunai and point it outwords infront of himself. If he was fast enough to flick a kunai past full speed ay, then I'm sure this isn't a problem.

How are minatos clones left vulnerable if, they can all perform a barrier then they're fine. Not to mention, who said all Minatos clones are going to same way. The aim is to keep guy chasing and wear him out, by sending clones off in different directions. How's guy wiping out multiple clones when they aren't even going the same direction?

Also, how is Morning Peacock even reaching Minato while he's using his body flicker. AT is listed as Short range (0-5m). Guy would need to be right in Minato's face, just like when he used it on kisame, for this attack to even work. If Minato is running off instead of approaching Guy, then this technique is useless. Space time barrier isn't even relevant here now that I just remembered the range.

Again, all Guy is gonna end up doing is exhausting himself and injuring his body against a space time ninjutsu user like this.

 

[Benjamin King]

Gonna need evidence for the bold, but as I also repeat below, Madara said he didn't want to get hit, so he was trying not to get hit. Nothing you say changes that. Whether or not it didn't kill him doesn't mean that he wanted to get hit, cause he said he didn't.

Whether he died or not was irrelevant, he clearly stated that he didn't want to get hit, so its not debatable. He didn't want to get hit.

You haven't answered the question. Madara said if he got hit few of them, he would be finished. He took 5 hits from EE, took hits of them off-panel, and took full force of Night Guy. In many spaces, he had the chance to use Limbo and knowing Gai's attacks have no effect on them, why did he not resort to them? You're forgetting Madara is a madman; he enjoys his own blood as he noted many times. [

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] Are we going to say EMS Sasuke is faster or as fast as SM Madara, just because he stabbed him? No. Madara tested Sasuke because he saw he had Choku Tomoe. The same happens here...he saw someone using 8th Gates and was impressed, thus letting Gai hit him so he can say ''dance''.

And are words even relevant when actions disprove them? No. Madara saying he doesn't want to get hit, doesn't equal that he had been hit more than 5 times from stronger attacks than the statement made, he mocked and said to Gai if he had more (which implies he's ready to take hits), and the fact it's Madara's character to enjoy suffering his pain. Nothing denies that.

Juubito blitzed KCM Naruto w/ no reaction, yet BSM Naruto was tracking his speed and Rikudo Naruto casually reacts to Obito's level of speed. Unless you are saying Base Naruto can react as well as Rikudo Naruto, you are wrong on this point. The faster you get, the faster things you will be able to react to. Lets quantify reactions with the number 0. You aren't going to go from 0 to 100 in speed, only to have a reaction level of 0, cause then you'd get blitzed by people who move just as fast as you do, and we all know that stuff like that makes no sense.

Ahh....BSM uses SM, which increases one's prediction and timing of attacks, thus able to visuals and process better than natural, meaning his reaction increases by an outside source and not inside source. So no, you haven't shown me speed increases reaction time. You showed a tool (SM) that can increase one's reaction time by its ability to predict as Naruto noted. This is reaction time:

'' the time required for a subject to initiate a prearranged response to a defined stimulus.'' - It's got nothing to do with speed, in which you simply move from a place to another by your own body. Big difference between them.

Did EMS Sasuke become physically faster? No. He reacts better mentally, and is able to time his speed better. Doesn't mean that his physical itself became faster.

As Rock Lee made it clear, even if you react and predict (reaction time), if your body is unable to function equally (speed + reflexes + agility), it all becomes. Even P1 made a difference.

Anyway, this is my last reply for now.

 

[Haizaki]

I don't know why he used hand signs there, but the evidence is there that he doesn't need hand signs for the jutsu. Why he sometimes uses hand seals for ftg, when he doesn't need to is beyond me as well. Point is, he doesn't need hand seals for the jutsu. Minato's hand speed may not be the same level as 7 gate guy, but it's certainly fast enough for him to lift up his kunai and point it outwords infront of himself. If he was fast enough to flick a kunai past full speed ay, then I'm sure this isn't a problem.

But all you're doing is talking and being unable to show me proof of the bolds. He used a hand seal when he clapped his hand and then used it...why do we still argue this? Is there any scan of Minato using the Barrier without a hand seal? No there isn't. That's like me saying Gau can use AT without the required hand seal. Gai uses At, Minato's only choice is to escape it's range and not use the seal and then release the Jutsu when I just showed feat of how fast it is.

AT is super fast as even 7G Gai regards it as a super fast punch..Minato isn't going to use the hand seal and then use the barrier after the Jutsu has been released.

How are minatos clones left vulnerable if, they can all perform a barrier then they're fine. Not to mention, who said all Minatos clones are going to same way. The aim is to keep guy chasing and wear him out, by sending clones off in different directions. How's guy wiping out multiple clones when they aren't even going the same direction?

Huh? Proof of the bold. Tobirama can use FTG but do we give him the feat of being able to use the barrier? Even if Minato's clone can use it, you've given it no limits since you're saying basically implying all his clones can use it at the same time.

Nope, the clones have no speed feat of escaping Hirudora's range even if I was to give them the benefit of escaping Asakujaku.

Also, how is Morning Peacock even reaching Minato while he's using his body flicker. AT is listed as Short range (0-5m). Guy would need to be right in Minato's face, just like when he used it on kisame, for this attack to even work. If Minato is running off instead of approaching Guy, then this technique is useless. Space time barrier isn't even relevant here now that I just remembered the range.

Doesn't matter when it's explosion dwarfed an entire Island which could contain a Bijuu. When the wind of the attack was felt miles away with strong force. The Kunais get blown away at the very worst..Oh wait, it destroys the Kunais as well due to its range. I didn't say AT reaches Minato..I said his clones would be left vulnerable to it due to them not having the speed feat but ignore that.

Again, all Guy is gonna end up doing is exhausting himself and injuring his body against a space time ninjutsu user like this.

Not really..Minato would struggle to win this fight even if he ends up winning.

 

[Yocolaw]

You haven't answered the question. Madara said if he got hit few of them, he would be finished. He took 5 hits from EE, took hits of them off-panel, and took full force of Night Guy. In many spaces, he had the chance to use Limbo and knowing Gai's attacks have no effect on them, why did he not resort to them? You're forgetting Madara is a madman; he enjoys his own blood as he noted many times. [

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] Are we going to say EMS Sasuke is faster or as fast as SM Madara, just because he stabbed him? No. Madara tested Sasuke because he saw he had Choku Tomoe. The same happens here...he saw someone using 8th Gates and was impressed, thus letting Gai hit him so he can say ''dance''.

And are words even relevant when actions disprove them? No. Madara saying he doesn't want to get hit, doesn't equal that he had been hit more than 5 times from stronger attacks than the statement made, he mocked and said to Gai if he had more (which implies he's ready to take hits), and the fact it's Madara's character to enjoy suffering his pain. Nothing denies that.



Ahh....BSM uses SM, which increases one's prediction and timing of attacks, thus able to visuals and process better than natural, meaning his reaction increases by an outside source and not inside source. So no, you haven't shown me speed increases reaction time. You showed a tool (SM) that can increase one's reaction time by its ability to predict as Naruto noted. This is reaction time:

'' the time required for a subject to initiate a prearranged response to a defined stimulus.'' - It's got nothing to do with speed, in which you simply move from a place to another by your own body. Big difference between them.

Did EMS Sasuke become physically faster? No. He reacts better mentally, and is able to time his speed better. Doesn't mean that his physical itself became faster.

As Rock Lee made it clear, even if you react and predict (reaction time), if your body is unable to function equally (speed + reflexes + agility), it all becomes. Even P1 made a difference.

Anyway, this is my last reply for now.

1st bold:

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he clearlys states to not be hitt then proceeds to block and defend

2nd bold: Where is that a fact???? and if that's the true why dose he even defend from attacks in the first place???
and he did ask gai for more, but that also could mean hes just prompting gai to try harder as he knows it'll take more to take him down, madara is cocky and likes to boast to his opponents, cause of the enjoyment of the the fight itself is good and challenging is a fact

3rd bold: limbo would be useless if your fighting a opponent whos moving 10000mph in mid air with incredible force UNSTOPPABLE FORCE limbo was pointless as madara was constantly being hit by air cannons

 

[Haizaki]

Lol this guy said Madara was letting Gai hit him. Maybe that's why Madara decided to cover his whole body with a shield and tried to block EE when we initially saw the 5 steps at play

 

[Bogard]

Difference between Speed/Power and reflexes

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[Haizaki]

I'll just repeat this again

Gates enhance Gai's physical capabilities. Therefore if one becomes faster, they can react faster.

Lee explains it best here:

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"Back then I said if you can see but your body can't move, it's useless...but now you have the same body speed as I do"

Implying that Sasuke could see but yet couldn't react before but when Sasuke gained Lee's speed, things were different.

 

[KidGamer65]

You haven't answered the question. Madara said if he got hit few of them, he would be finished. He took 5 hits from EE, took hits of them off-panel, and took full force of Night Guy. In many spaces, he had the chance to use Limbo and knowing Gai's attacks have no effect on them, why did he not resort to them? You're forgetting Madara is a madman; he enjoys his own blood as he noted many times. [

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] Are we going to say EMS Sasuke is faster or as fast as SM Madara, just because he stabbed him? No. Madara tested Sasuke because he saw he had Choku Tomoe. The same happens here...he saw someone using 8th Gates and was impressed, thus letting Gai hit him so he can say ''dance''.

Lol, he said it'd be bad, not that he'd be finished. Wrong about that. The rest is irrelevant to me. I don't care whether or not Madara held back, but he clearly stated that he did NOT want Evening Elephant to hit him, so that whole time on panel we saw him fighting, he was trying NOT to get hit.

And are words even relevant when actions disprove them? No. Madara saying he doesn't want to get hit, doesn't equal that he had been hit more than 5 times from stronger attacks than the statement made, he mocked and said to Gai if he had more (which implies he's ready to take hits), and the fact it's Madara's character to enjoy suffering his pain. Nothing denies that.

Yeah, after he had taken the initial 5, but on panel, which was the main 5, Madara was trying his hardest not to get hit. Lets not deny manga fact. Not to mention he only said that the Evening Elephant isn't enough? Haha, that's good.

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'' the time required for a subject to initiate a prearranged response to a defined stimulus.'' - It's got nothing to do with speed, in which you simply move from a place to another by your own body. Big difference between them.

The faster you are, the faster things you will be able to react to. Not that hard to understand. You aren't going to get blitzed by something that moves as fast as you. Speed consists of reaction speed and movement speed, not just movement speed.

-Base Naruto can't react to Ay.

-KCM Naruto can.

I wonder why?

-Obito couldn't react to Hiraishin attacks.

-Juubito can.

If I get blitzed by something that moves 60 mph, but then train and eventually become fast enough to move at 100 mph, am I going to get blitzed by something that moves 60 mph? Obviously not.

Did EMS Sasuke become physically faster? No. He reacts better mentally, and is able to time his speed better. Doesn't mean that his physical itself became faster.

I never said that speed goes up when reactions go up, I said the reverse, so EMS Sasuke not getting any better speed is irrelevant.

As Rock Lee made it clear, even if you react and predict (reaction time), if your body is unable to function equally (speed + reflexes + agility), it all becomes. Even P1 made a difference.

Yeah, but that isn't even relevant to anything I'm saying. All that proves is that reaction speed surpasses movement speed, which is something I never denied.

 

[Gold Lightning]

@Evani

I'll reply properly maybe later, but I already showed you the scan of minato about to use the barrier without hand seals.

And Tobirama can't use barrier, 4th databook lists it as Minatos jutsu
And we've all seen Minatos speed of crossing the village in an instant or saving Kushina and getting to the top of that cliff in an instant, he has the speed to escape, seeing as Hirudoras range is nothing compared to the distances minato has crossed.

And of course miantos clones can use FTG barrier, it's still FTG. He's already shown his clones to be able to teleport even while he's maintaining the 4 red barrier. His clones using s/t barrier isn't a problem. Not sure why you'd think he can't. And I'm not giving minato 0 limits. Compared to a Juubi bomb and Kurama tbb, Mornong peacock is nothing in comparison.

 

[Worm]

Difference between Speed/Power and reflexes

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I see no difference. . .

 

[Mellanoma]

Minato mid diff.

Ay is faster than 7th Gate Gai, given to how he was known to be fastest Shinobi and Gai was already alive during the era in his prime. Minato effortlessly reacted to Ay twice and almost blitzed if it weren't for Bee's interference. He reacted and was faster than MS Obito, who Gai/Naruto/Kakashi/Bee could not land a hit on. He also kept up with Juubito, whose even faster than Ay and 7th Gate Gai.

Minato simply blitzes using V2 FTG.

lol go rewatch the 7 gate guy vs madara fight then watch the minato vs madara fight.... then you have your "Feats"

OT: Gai wins low-mid difficulty

 

[Conspirator.]

Gai takes it with no more than mid difficulty IMO.

 

[BlacLord™]

I see no difference. . .

He's trying to show you that speed alone doesn't augment one's reflexes. The only time that both are augmented simultaneously is when one is using a technique which increases both, like Raikages' RCM. After that, you can only train your reflexes and abilities to be able to use techniques which increase one's speed, so it's not just a blur.

Overall, I would think though that Gai trained his reflexes and physical ability to be able to handle that speed.

 

[Haizaki]

@Evani

I'll reply properly maybe later, but I already showed you the scan of minato about to use the barrier without hand seals.

And Tobirama can't use barrier, 4th databook lists it as Minatos jutsu
And we've all seen Minatos speed of crossing the village in an instant or saving Kushina and getting to the top of that cliff in an instant, he has the speed to escape, seeing as Hirudoras range is nothing compared to the distances minato has crossed.

And of course miantos clones can use FTG barrier, it's still FTG. He's already shown his clones to be able to teleport even while he's maintaining the 4 red barrier. His clones using s/t barrier isn't a problem. Not sure why you'd think he can't. And I'm not giving minato 0 limits. Compared to a Juubi bomb and Kurama tbb, Mornong peacock is nothing in comparison.

When? You didn't..not to mention he didn't use it or we didn't see it so him about to use it and not showing the seal at that point doesn't mean he could use it without the seal in the end, we didn't see it or how it was brought out. Meanwhile we saw in my scan that he needed to use the seal for it.

As for the second second bold. Asakujaku range exceeds TBB without them exploding. So Minato being able to warp the entire attack isn't happening. Minato can use BF and evade Hirudora's range. However, his clones and kunais get caught up in its range.

 

[Ababeel]

Minato speedblitze.

Gai's speed even with the 8th Gate is inferior to Minato's

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so, I don't see what he could do here...
Also, any attacks he try to use will get redirected against him via S/T barrier.

Edit:

Reading some of Minato's profile. Lol it talkes about him being like purple lighting flash sword. He took Nindaime's Space-time Ninjutsu Hiraishin to a state of perfection (basically what the other entry said that he improved on Hiraishin). He learned Jiriaya confidence (I think this means will of fire basically). Approximately 27 years ago he prevent Kirigakure's attempt to abduct a Jinchuuriki, which was the start of the third shinobi war. Says he is the fastest shinobi, whose pride is his great battle prowess.

for the regular delusional people. The 4th Databook still states that Minato's the fastest even after after chapter 691 (after Gai Vs Madara) and all of that... So there is no excuse either...