[VS] 7G Gai vs Base Minato

[Haizaki]

true, but the ay and minato encounter was in a small space, a small little forest section. Those markings weren't even spread out that well, most were so close together, it was easy to locate them all. On an open field, Minato marked a massive perimeter around the juubi without a single person noticing, seeing or sensing. In an open field, he can place markings at a much further distance, and the when you factor in clones, they can also go and spread more kunais, and lets not forget that ftg users can also teleport to their clones.

Spreading markings and spreading clones out in different directions, it's not possible for Guy to try and locate all the markings, predict where minato will appear or which is the real minato. Not on an open battlefield.

Yeah but consider the fact that there were trees around that locations making things pretty hard. If Ay can look around and tell which one, I don't see why Gai can't at all. Well it doesn't really matter since people have seen indeed that it's not a stomp.

You made a good point with the bold but if Gai decides, he can either use Asakujaku to kill the clones considering they literally don't have any speed feat that suggest they could evade it's range or he could just use Hirudora to obliterate them since there's no way they can escape its range. This would end up destroying even the thrown kunais as well.

 

[Haizaki]

I don't need to prove his capabilities because the clues make it blatantly clear in the Edos; all of them were severely weakened compared to their live counterparts, from Madara all the way to Haku.

I already proved you wrong with the BM point though.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Yeah but consider the fact that there were trees around that locations making things pretty hard. If Ay can look around and tell which one, I don't see why Gai can't at all. Well it doesn't really matter since people have seen indeed that it's not a stomp.

You made a good point with the bold but if Gai decides, he can either use Asakujaku to kill the clones considering they literally don't have any speed feat that suggest they could evade it's range or he could just use Hirudora to obliterate them since there's no way they can escape its range. This would end up destroying even the thrown kunais as well.

I'd say Ay has a pretty clean view of where all the markings are, you can see Ay is perfectly positioned to see them all. Even the ones planted in the trees are in his line of sight. They are surrounded by trees, but there are none obscuring his vision, all the kunai appeared clearly visible. This is the best image that shows the kunai positions, I don't see any kunai that's difficult for Ay to see here:

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Not to mention that Ay still needed to look around to try and locate minato, before immediately trying to blitz minato again. And that still doesn't guarantee he would've gotten to minato, Ay is quite arrogant, so his confidence is of no surprise to me, he was confident he and bee would take down minato as well Lol (instead of retreating like they were supposed to). And Minato can teleport between markings consecutively, as he did to ay. Ay charged at Minato full speed, he teleported away and teleported back, while Ay was still in the same position. So minato can jump between markings fairly quickly with little delay.

Morning peacock and Hirudora can both be countered by the space time barrier as well. The barrier has a pretty wide range, so as long as minato is alert, it won't work. Minato doesn't need to escape the range. If anything, guy should be careful to not let those be redirected back at him. And hirudora is heavily risky as i've previously stated, if Guy misses, then that's his stamina wasted..

 

[LuckyMan]

I already proved you wrong with the BM point though.

Minato in edo form was a watered down version of himself. If you're saying SM made up for his lower stats in edo form then those stats are incorrect because he would be much more responsive and much faster than what he showed versus Jubi Madara if he was alive and went SM because he was stronger in base while alive than in base while edo form. Their techniques were weaker so its also plausible to say Minatos FTG was slower than normal.

I could argue that Alive SM Minato in that same scenario could actually hit Madara because he would have a higher reaction and fight speed time. This is why I say don't compare someone alive to someone who is Edo. It makes no sense and we can't really gauge what could and what wouldn't occur (unless the power/skill gap is just freaking ridiculous and obvious).

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Sorry but hes by far the most wanked character on the base,

Actually, no, he's not even close. Madara, Sasuke, and Itachi hold that title. I see a couple of bad arguments for Minato (like in this thread) but there's even a greater degree of haters that downplay him.

Lol Bogard stay mad. I already destroyed your ridiculous logic and yet you come hear to repeat it.

This guy really believes Gai was moving at full speed when Gaara's sand was keeping up. Lemme guess, this is Sasuke's full speed

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? Gai was traveling and Gaara's sand was keeping up. Only a mad man would believe that was his full speed Lol.

The sand happened off-panel, so for all you know, he started moving Kakashi there, or was close to begin with, before Guy charged. This counter is irrelevant. However, even if you were correct, Minato's feat is still quite applicable to 7G anyway. 7G Guy<=Juubi jin Madara's speed. Now, Madara uses TSBs as projectiles, so it obviously has to be faster than Madara. Otherwise, they're worthless and Madara might as well have been smashing them into people instead of launching them.

Spoiler

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So, however you look at it, Guy cannot blitz Minato with the 7th gate unless he's already close to him, which is not happening.

Now, I'm not arguing that Minato has better reflexes than Guy, or could match him in CQB or anything like that. (assuming this is what Bogard's talking about) I'm simply saying Guy's not landing a hit on Minato period.

 

[Bogard]

Honestly if one says outlasting, That's farr better than someone saying 6G Gai reaction = Kakashi' reactions. I've never slapped my head harder ahaha.

Minato could definitely win this but my point is it's a high diff either way since Minato would struggle to tag Gai as he has to engage him in a CQC. Bogard is trying to imply it's a stomp. Never have I heard someone comparing Gai's Base/other versions of the Gates to the 7th and saying they somehow have equal reaction speed. I can't believe this is you Bogard. Now I know why you think we overrate Gai.

I think i'll go to the main point then

1 The Gate of Opening (開門, Kaimon), located in the brain, removes the restraints of the brain on the muscles so 100% of the user's strength can be used whereas normally, a person can only use 20% of their muscles' strength to keep them from disintegrating. Unlocking this gate allows the user to use the Front Lotus.

2 The Gate of Healing (休門, Kyūmon; English TV "The Gate of Rest"), located in the brain, forcibly increases the user's physical strength and temporarily re-energises the body.

3 The Gate of Life (生門, Seimon), located on the spinal cord, allows the user to use the Reverse Lotus. The increased blood flow turns the skin red.

4 The Gate of Pain (傷門, Shōmon), located on the spinal cord, increases the user's speed and power. May cause muscle tissue to tear on use.

5 The Gate of Limit (杜門, Tomon; English TV "The Gate of Closing"), located in the abdomen, increases the user's speed and power.

6 The Gate of View (景門, Keimon; English TV "The Gate of Joy"), located in the stomach, increases the user's speed and power. Opening of this gate releases such enormous amounts of energy that it can cause nearby water bodies to form a vortex around the user. Once opened, capable users can perform the Morning Peacock.

7 The Gate of Wonder (驚門, Kyōmon; English TV "The Gate of Shock"), located below the stomach, further increases the user's speed and power. Only after this gate is activated, can a capable user perform the Daytime Tiger. Those who open this gate will secrete glowing green — blue in the anime — sweat from every inch of their body which immediately evaporates from their own heat energy, creating an aura which people mistake as a chakra coating. Unfortunately, the side effects of opening the gate are that the user's muscle fibres are ripped to shreds, causing intense pain if anything or anyone touches them.

8 The Gate of Death (死門, Shimon), located at the heart, requires the user to puncture their chest just above the heart in order to open it. Opening this gate will cause the user's blood to emanate a flaming aura of red steam from all pores of their body, hair, and eyebrows. Releasing this gate uses up all of the body's energy while making the heart pump at maximum power. Exceeding the power of every other gate, the user is granted approximately a hundred times their normal power, far beyond that of the five Kage, but comes at the expense of their life. Once activated, those who are capable can perform the Evening Elephant and the Night Guy. Under regular circumstances, the effects of opening all Eight Gates will cause the user to crumble to ash, having virtually cooked themselves from the inside-out.

This is basically how gates work. And like i've already said on my first post

Notice that in all the descriptions of Gated Gai taijutsu movements it was all the time talking about a boost in power, a faster taijutsu(or combat move) along with an unorthodox style

His reflexes, perception, precognition sensing was never given.

Gates upgrade his offensive power and speed. It shouldn't upgrade his reflexes, hence i don't think there is any particular difference in reflexes between base or even 8 gated Gai. But assuming there is one, i have to think that it could only exist between base and 1 or 2 gated Gai considering it's only the first and second gate that is located in the brain, so one could argue that removing the restrains in the brain other than giving 100% of the power(instead of 20) than usual could also relaxe the synapses, but i personally see no reason why 7 or even 8 gated Gai could have better reflexes than 6 gated Gai when the core is situated in the abdomen and in the heart respectively. Logically speaking when all the gate restrained are open, only the power and speed should be boosted more than his actual reaction speed and even when you look at manga pages, there is no manga scan as far as i remember that suggest he gets a boost in reaction. It was all about his offensive speed and power

 

[Rιver]

8 Gates puts you on Rikudo level.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

8 Gates puts you on Rikudo level.

In physical attributes only and only lasts for a short period of time.

 

[Rιver]

In physical attributes only and only lasts for a short period of time.

Makes you stronger than So6P.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Makes you stronger than So6P.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Gold Lightning]

8 Gates puts you on Rikudo level.

I don't believe that to be honest, I still think he's below.

Its useless if you have no team to support you, like guy did.

Truth seeking balls make the jins untouchable. Madara was having fun, he wanted to test the power of the gates, he enjoyed the thrill of the fight. Madara didn't go all out, and he barely acted offensively. 100% killing intent juubi jin madara or obito would handle 8 gates to be honest.

 

[Rιver]

I don't believe that to be honest, I still think he's below.

Its useless if you have no team to support you, like guy did.

Truth seeking balls make the jins untouchable. Madara was having fun, he wanted to test the power of the gates, he enjoyed the thrill of the fight. Madara didn't go all out, and he barely acted offensively. 100% killing intent juubi jin madara or obito would handle 8 gates to be honest.

8th Gate Gai wrecked Maddy though.

 

[Gold Lightning]

8th Gate Gai wrecked Maddy though.

he definitely has the power, no doubt. But only because Madara let him for the most part. And Guy had help, his final elephant step never would've hit without his team.

It's like pitting Hashirama against Tenten, and hashirama allows tenten to attack him. Of course tenten can win, she has the tools to kill him as long as Hashirama doesn't try

 

[Haizaki]

I'd say Ay has a pretty clean view of where all the markings are, you can see Ay is perfectly positioned to see them all. Even the ones planted in the trees are in his line of sight. They are surrounded by trees, but there are none obscuring his vision, all the kunai appeared clearly visible. This is the best image that shows the kunai positions, I don't see any kunai that's difficult for Ay to see here:

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Unless he has unlimited Kunais

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because if he tries to throw some elsewhere behind the trees, I don't see how that's beneficial when Gai is right in front of him.

Not to mention that Ay still needed to look around to try and locate minato, before immediately trying to blitz minato again. And that still doesn't guarantee he would've gotten to minato, Ay is quite arrogant, so his confidence is of no surprise to me, he was confident he and bee would take down minato as well Lol (instead of retreating like they were supposed to). And Minato can teleport between markings consecutively, as he did to ay. Ay charged at Minato full speed, he teleported away and teleported back, while Ay was still in the same position. So minato can jump between markings fairly quickly with little delay.

Ok

Morning peacock and Hirudora can both be countered by the space time barrier as well. The barrier has a pretty wide range, so as long as minato is alert, it won't work. Minato doesn't need to escape the range. If anything, guy should be careful to not let those be redirected back at him. And hirudora is heavily risky as i've previously stated, if Guy misses, then that's his stamina wasted..

No, Not a chance. Minato prepared the hand seal while TBB was charging

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. Gai's technique is a super fast punch. Don't think he'll be having time to do so here when Gai could release Hirudora on Susanoo before it could complete its sword swing. I believe I explained to you before why Gai can still fight even after Hirudora.

Asakujaku's range exceeds the Barrier's

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So the barrier won't take everything.

Minato in edo form was a watered down version of himself. If you're saying SM made up for his lower stats in edo form then those stats are incorrect because he would be much more responsive and much faster than what he showed versus Jubi Madara if he was alive and went SM because he was stronger in base while alive than in base while edo form. Their techniques were weaker so its also plausible to say Minatos FTG was slower than normal.

I could argue that Alive SM Minato in that same scenario could actually hit Madara because he would have a higher reaction and fight speed time. This is why I say don't compare someone alive to someone who is Edo. It makes no sense and we can't really gauge what could and what wouldn't occur (unless the power/skill gap is just freaking ridiculous and obvious).

All I care fore is Minato's Alive form can never be superior to his Edo BM form(Almost at full power) can never be inferior to his Alive form. Same goes for his SM Edo form is superior or at least as equal to his Base Alive form. Stop this troll argument you're trying to bring up.

The sand happened off-panel, so for all you know, he started moving Kakashi there, or was close to begin with, before Guy charged. This counter is irrelevant. However, even if you were correct, Minato's feat is still quite applicable to 7G anyway. 7G Guy<=Juubi jin Madara's speed. Now, Madara uses TSBs as projectiles, so it obviously has to be faster than Madara. Otherwise, they're worthless and Madara might as well have been smashing them into people instead of launching them.

Spoiler

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One thing we know is that it wasn't there while Gai was beating Madara all along. Meaning while he was traveling, the sand eventually caught up since all he was doing was moving and the sand moved to catch up with his traveling speed. Not to mention we see Gaara controlling his sand here in the bottom of the scan

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. If the sand was already there, why would Gaara be controlling it? That's definitely not his full speed.

So, however you look at it, Guy cannot blitz Minato with the 7th gate unless he's already close to him, which is not happening.

No he won't outright blitz Minato. If Minato makes it a CQC, then Gai destroys him in that aspect.

Now, I'm not arguing that Minato has better reflexes than Guy, or could match him in CQB or anything like that. (assuming this is what Bogard's talking about) I'm simply saying Guy's not landing a hit on Minato period.

Your point makes sense but all I'm saying is if it's a CQC and Minato doesn't avoid that, Gai overpowers him. That's why it would be hard to mark him.

 

[Haizaki]

@Bogard, Previously, he was forced to block in his Base form in a CQC

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Kisame hits Gai, Gai is able to react easily and strike back upon opening the 6th

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What does that say?

 

[Gold Lightning]

@Evani


hand signs aren't required for space time barrier. Same way minato can use ftg with or without hand signs.

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. Minato only needs to stick his kunai out. Minato has intel on hirudora and has seen it. Guy uses hand signs to perform it. Minato can stick out his kunai quick enough to direct it, no problem, or minato can just teleport away to a marking which isn't in the vicinity.

I'm pretty sure the barrier can expand to whatever range minato wants. But lets say it can't, why is this important when all that matters is minatos protection. As long as he opens the barrier, the flames won't hit him, the flames that exceed the width of the barrier simply go to the side away from minato. So it still won't affect him.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

One thing we know is that it wasn't there while Gai was beating Madara all along. Meaning while he was traveling, the sand eventually caught up since all he was doing was moving and the sand moved to catch up with his traveling speed. Not to mention we see Gaara controlling his sand here in the bottom of the scan

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. If the sand was already there, why would Gaara be controlling it? That's definitely not his full speed.



No he won't outright blitz Minato. If Minato makes it a CQC, then Gai destroys him in that aspect.



Your point makes sense but all I'm saying is if it's a CQC and Minato doesn't avoid that, Gai overpowers him. That's why it would be hard to mark him.

Then I think we're more or less on the same page, but think of different results.

 

[KidGamer65]

But only because Madara let him for the most part.

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Lol

 

[Haizaki]

@Evani


hand signs aren't required for space time barrier. Same way minato can use ftg with or without hand signs.

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. Minato only needs to stick his kunai out. Minato has intel on hirudora and has seen it. Guy uses hand signs to perform it. Minato can stick out his kunai quick enough to direct it, no problem, or minato can just teleport away to a marking which isn't in the vicinity.

If hand seals aren't required, why is he using it here

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. Once AT is released and given it could be release on Susanoo before it could complete its sword stab

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, I doubt Minato would use the hand seal and then teleport it elsewhere with such time since it's a super fast punch.

I'm pretty sure the barrier can expand to whatever range minato wants. But lets say it can't, why is this important when all that matters is minatos protection. As long as he opens the barrier, the flames won't hit him, the flames that exceed the width of the barrier simply go to the side away from minato. So it still won't affect him.

Don't know about it being able to extend its range to match Asakujaku's but if Minato uses it to protect himself, his clones are left vulnerable since Asakujaku's range exceeds the given range of the barrier.

 

[Haizaki]

Bogard how about a new sig:

Gates upgrade his offensive power and speed. It shouldn't upgrade his reflexes, hence i don't think there is any particular difference in reflexes between base or even 8 gated Gai.

Haahaha I showed you the difference between 6G Gai and Base Gai:

Previously, he was forced to block in his Base form in a CQC

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Kisame hits Gai, Gai is able to react easily and strike back upon opening the 6th

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