Madara or the Rikudo?

[Your Creepy Stalker]

The funny thing about people pretending that Hagoromo has any feats, is that Madara has pretty much all of them, and a third eye, + ACTUAL BATTLE EXPERIENCE.

 

[Benjamin King]

Madara has an incomplete juubi and an incomplete tree absorbed which means lower power.

Hagoromo is an alien anyway, he could beat Madara anyday

Juubi can recover its power. Irrelevant is irrelevant.

How about invented ninshu

Ninjutsu > Ninshu.

saved the world from the juubi,

Which he did with Hamura, while it took seconds for Madara to seal the Juubi and overpower it with control.

left the world with the seal of a jinchurki

No, Uzumaki invented seals for Jinchuuriki.

was the first to divine the true nature and meaning of chakra itself(upon which all ninjutsu would later come to be based)

Okay, nothing will help that beat Madara.

passed on his teachings and strength to his two sons, whose descendants would become the two most powerful shinobi clans the uchiha and the senju.

And Madara possess all of their powers inside himself.

---

Let's look at Madara: the first to merge the powers of Indra and Ashura, the second to awaken the Rinnegan at Rikudou's level, the first to awaken MS centuries after Indra and enhance it to EMS, became as powerful as Rikudou with 1 eye, and after getting his second Rinnegan became comparable to Kaguya.

 

[PIOLO]

PEOPLE no one of us besides kishi who knows the entirety on NV manga fact is kishis intellectual PROPERTY nobody beside kishi knows well madara,,, the guy (kishi) creator of NV DECLAIR WHILE PRAISING THE ONE AND ONLY MADARA is the STRONGEST , i do not know how to defeat him....... kishis idea is equal to manga fact which i believe, the reason why by the power s an author of NV he created

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aka BZ we know, it is him the only madara trust that betrayed him

 

[PIOLO]

If the creator/author of his works believed and declare that i do not know how to defeat him admitted, then who we are, so kishis idea which is equal to manga fact is a NV FACTS DEAL WITH IT.....

 

[KCMNaruto]

PEOPLE no one of us besides kishi who knows the entirety on NV manga fact is kishis intellectual PROPERTY nobody beside kishi knows well madara,,, the guy (kishi) creator of NV DECLAIR WHILE PRAISING THE ONE AND ONLY MADARA is the STRONGEST , i do not know how to defeat him....... kishis idea is equal to manga fact which i believe, the reason why by the power s an author of NV he created

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aka BZ we know, it is him the only madara trust that betrayed him

^^ Learn first proper grammar and spelling in regard to english language Zzz

I asked if anyone is up to challenge to debate with me.

I guessed noone is up to, so Hagoromo wins Lol

 

[Sennin of Logic]

The funny thing about people pretending that Hagoromo has any feats, is that Madara has pretty much all of them, and a third eye, + ACTUAL BATTLE EXPERIENCE.

Considering Hagoromo is the benchmark of everything, Kurama stating that Sasuke's usage of the rinnegan when he merged the bijus was virtually unrivaled and only brought up Hagoromo and not Madara despite seeing him, and there's nothing actually stating Madara achieved Hagoromo's full power, yeah, Hagoromo can sit comfortably with his hype while Madara has virtually nothing accept fanboy-created hype.

 

[PIOLO]

^^ Learn first proper grammar and spelling in regard to english language Zzz

I asked if anyone is up to challenge to debate with me.

I guessed noone is up to, so Hagoromo wins Lol

here you are again king of insults,,,, you and me are equal here but kishi idea in NV are greater than ours so ofc i believe in kishi than you are ***ktards deal with it

 

[ultraChalk]

It all boils down to battle experience and will imo.

Madara has fought all his life. Hagoromo fought just the juubi I believe.

Hard to say who has the stronger will though... But seeing how Naruto is compared to Hago and Naruto has the strongest will... I'll say Hagoromo.

So, yeah. Tie basically.

 

[KCMNaruto]

here you are again king of insults,,,, you and me are equal here but kishi idea in NV are greater than ours so ofc i believe in kishi than you are ***ktards deal with it

trying to win argument with terrible spelling and insulting others, just like I expected from you Lol

There is no argument from you I guess, too bad I always won against you U_U

 

[PIOLO]

trying to win argument with terrible spelling and insulting others, just like I expected from you Lol

There is no argument from you I guess, too bad I always won against you U_U

A, ok, you really do this a reply to earn your points in post, while saying look people i show you scans, and proof, but the thing is its kishis works not you.... that scan you post is from kishi which i directly believed on him......i do not know how to defeat him, kishis idea is also say equal to manga fact which came from his idea....

 

[Benjamin King]

Considering Hagoromo is the benchmark of everything, Kurama stating that Sasuke's usage of the rinnegan when he merged the bijus was virtually unrivaled and only brought up Hagoromo and not Madara despite seeing him, and there's nothing actually stating Madara achieved Hagoromo's full power, yeah, Hagoromo can sit comfortably with his hype while Madara has virtually nothing accept fanboy-created hype.

I find it funny because you call us fanboys when you have yet to show how much of a great fanboy-killer you are. And not only that, your English reading skills are so poor. Where did Kurama suggest Sasuke's Rinnegan skills were on par with Rikudou's? There was no translation what-so-ever suggested something like that. I don't know how you read and twisted that way. And then you say ''fanboy-created hype''? How deluded and foolish.

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It's obvious how you hate Madara being tiers above your favourites. Cry elsewhere.​

 

[NarutoKage2]

Ninjutsu > Ninshu.

Uhm, what? Ninjutsu derives from ninshu, which is by default superior.

Which he did with Hamura, while it took seconds for Madara to seal the Juubi and overpower it with control.

Madara was being helped by kaguya in secret, black zetsu even stated this. Heck, the juubi tree literally asked him to absorb him. Id like to see how long he'd last if the god tree had resisted as it did with hagoromo and his bro.

No, Uzumaki invented seals for Jinchuuriki.

Really:

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Or read it here:

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"The rikudo sennin developed a certain ninjutsu......the seal that creates a jinchuriki".

Re read the manga.

Okay, nothing will help that beat Madara

.


It gives an idea(hype) of hagoromo's power.

And Madara possess all of their powers inside himself.

Only partially. Madara never had the eye sasuke had with the tomoes within the rinnegan, nor was he able to gain the full power and spirit of ashura and indra. Nor the full 100% power of the juubi for that matter.

Let's look at Madara:

Ok.

the first to merge the powers of Indra and Ashura,

Now compare that to giving birth to Indra and Ashura, training them and handing them out their powers..

the second to awaken the Rinnegan at Rikudou's level,

Pure speculation on your part. Madara just awoke the rinnegan, that's like saying that when obito awoke his 2 tomoe sharingan it was at, say itachi's level. Provide proof.

the first to awaken MS centuries after Indra and enhance it to EMS,

stop pulling facts outta your ass. I ain't mad, but no where does it state or imply that centuries passed, between indra and madara. I know itachi said madara was the first to awaken mangekyuo, but a lot of what he said was later proven false so..

became as powerful as Rikudou with 1 eye,

Lol nice trolling. So madara with one rinnegan, apart from getting half his body ripped by gai, done in by obito and perplexed by naruto and sasuke became as powerful as rikudo? You wish.

and after getting his second Rinnegan was manipulated, used and taken over like a doll by kaguya, who had secretly manipulated him all along via black zetsu just so she could revive herself.

Corrected it^^ for you.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

I find it funny because you call us fanboys when you have yet to show how much of a great fanboy-killer you are. And not only that, your English reading skills are so poor. Where did Kurama suggest Sasuke's Rinnegan skills were on par with Rikudou's? There was no translation what-so-ever suggested something like that. I don't know how you read and twisted that way. And then you say ''fanboy-created hype''? How deluded and foolish.

Spoiler

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It's obvious how you hate Madara being tiers above your favourites. Cry elsewhere.​

Coming from the fanbase that tried to give Madara Kaguya's powers just because he had the same type of eye, and constantly pathetically try to make out Madara to be stronger than the strongest NV character(Kaguya) despite multiple hints by the author because of "experience" is rich.


Sasuke uses the rinnegan to control the bijus and their chakra and his susanoo. What do you think Kurama was referring to genius?! That scan shows my point exactly. What the manga says: Madara has obtained both powers. What Madara fanboys see: Madara has both powers at their full potential.


Quite the difference.


The funny thing is you force your tastes on mine. You who constantly downplay Naruto against any Juubi Jin (Obito) and make bullcrap up just to make Madara seem that much stronger, are the only one who thinks like that.

The hilarious thing is that Madara's my favorite villain! It's just that I'm not a self-brainwashed fan using outdated hype not applicable to the current ranking.

 

[Benjamin King]

Uhm, what? Ninjutsu derives from ninshu, which is by default superior.

Except it wasn't derived, but evolved. Read the manga, it helps.

Madara was being helped by kaguya in secret, black zetsu even stated this. Heck, the juubi tree literally asked him to absorb him. Id like to see how long he'd last if the god tree had resisted as it did with hagoromo and his bro.

Juubi is not the Shinju.

Really:

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Or read it here:



"The rikudo sennin developed a certain ninjutsu......the seal that creates a jinchuriki".

Re read the manga.

How does that translate Rikudou's seal passed down to all Shinobi? It doesn't. I don't know how you twisted a basic English to a complete definition. Furthermore, the Viz says ''secretly''. And furthermore, Hamura helped him seal it. Don't try to use old hypes debunked.

You should take your own advice.

It gives an idea(hype) of hagoromo's power.

But it still doesn't help defeat Madara.

Now compare that to giving birth to Indra and Ashura, training them and handing them out their powers..

Is this relevant? No. Why? Because the genetics of Rikudou inside Madara constantly adapted themselves. Thus, putting Madara's Rikudou power at Rikudou's.

Pure speculation on your part. Madara just awoke the rinnegan, that's like saying that when obito awoke his 2 tomoe sharingan it was at, say itachi's level. Provide proof.

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''Full power of the Rinnegan at its original wielder's hands''

stop pulling facts outta your ass. I ain't mad, but no where does it state or imply that centuries passed, between indra and madara. I know itachi said madara was the first to awaken mangekyuo, but a lot of what he said was later proven false so..

You love grasping straws, don't you? I don't give a shit whether you think Itachi's words were wrong or not. If the manga doesn't directly say anyone beside Madara and Indra to be the first to awake MS, then it stays a fact as it is. Now cry me the river.

nice trolling. So madara with one rinnegan, apart from getting half his body ripped by gai, done in by obito and perplexed by naruto and sasuke became as powerful as rikudo? You wish.

The manga says it, not me:

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Corrected it^^ for you.

Concession accepted. This will be last reply.

 

[KCMNaruto]

A, ok, you really do this a reply to earn your points in post, while saying look people i show you scans, and proof, but the thing is its kishis works not you.... that scan you post is from kishi which i directly believed on him......i do not know how to defeat him, kishis idea is also say equal to manga fact which came from his idea....

Yeah, yeah you are still babbling the same stuff. Now let's me show you arguments of Hagoromo's supperiority to Madara:

1) Both Hagoromo and Madara were Ten tails hosts at one point, the difference is that Hagoromo had Yin Kurama chakra as well which Madara lacked
2) Both Hagoromo and Madara have all elements, the difference is that Hagoromo had mastery over them, especially Yin and yang release(look at seals) while Madara does not have(lack of seals)
3) Both Hagoromo and Madara have Senjutsu of six paths, despite that fact Hagoromo's Senjutsu given to Naruto was supperior to Madara's Senjutsu just like Hagoromo's rinnegan given to Sasuke was superrior to Madara's Rinnegan
4) Both Hagoromo and Madara have a lot of expierience. While Madara is really expert in battle which Hagoromo most likely lack to some degreee. However Hagoromo had longer Rinnegan(almost since birth) and was much longer Host of Ten tails being better acustomed to it's power.
5) Both Hagoromo and Madara have goudama, yet Madara's use of goudama is shown being below Obito's use of goudama while Hagoromo has not shown too much, but through Obito we know that Nunoboko sword is Hagoromo's goudama shaping into that shape.
6) Both Hagoromo and Madara have mastery over Rinnegan, yet it was Hagoromo's hype which surprass Madara's use of Rinnegan. The limbo is question although...

The only advantage of Madara over Hagoromo is Third eye, which only is capable of IT going by feats and yet Hagoromo was not afraid of IT as he knows way to undo it. He has also means to do that no problem. They are both wise and intelligent being so it could be close, but Hagoromo has a little edge, also EMS or any sharingan moves are useless against Hagoromo.

Assuming that limbo is only Madara's ability , Hagoromo having many special traits one of them being Kekkei moura make me more then certain it could counter it.

Now your turn, bring me scans or Madara's feats/hype because stating over and over the same stuff will not win anything

 

[Benjamin King]

Coming from the fanbase that tried to give Madara Kaguya's powers just because he had the same type of eye, and constantly pathetically try to make out Madara to be stronger than the strongest NV character(Kaguya) despite multiple hints by the author because of "experience" is rich.

Yet that fanbase reminds you of your place. Quite the fanbase it is.

Sasuke uses the rinnegan to control the bijus and their chakra and his susanoo. What do you think Kurama was referring to genius?! That scan shows my point exactly. What the manga says: Madara has obtained both powers. What Madara fanboys see: Madara has both powers at their full potential.

First, you assumed their Chakra manipulated by Sasuke without basing an evidence. No, their Chakra was not manipulated by the Rinnegan. Second, you assumed the Rinnegan is what controlled them without basing a proof. Both Obito and Madara were controlling Juubi's power without using the Rinnegan. Sasuke's Rinnegan has Sharingan's power intact to it, and Sharingan reflects on the Bijuu, meaning you have no evidence that Rinnegan was all the control. Until you bring a proof of the Rinnegan is what controlled the Bijuu's Chakra, your baseless speculation is baseless, from your ass, it's not relevant and never will be. Simple as that.

Why does this idiot brag about his assumptions being more factor than manga? Bring me a proof that Madara can't use Rikudou's powers at its full potential instead of crying.

The funny thing is you force your tastes on mine. You who constantly downplay Naruto against any Juubi Jin (Obito) and make bullcrap up just to make Madara seem that much stronger, are the only one who thinks like that.

The hilarious thing is that Madara's my favorite villain! It's just that I'm not a self-brainwashed fan using outdated hype not applicable to the current ranking.

Cry me the river.

 

[NarutoKage2]

How does that translate Rikudou's seal passed down to all Shinobi? It doesn't. I don't know how you twisted a basic English to a complete definition. Furthermore, the Viz says ''secretly''. And furthermore, Hamura helped him seal it. Don't try to use old hypes debunked.

This guy is serious or what? Dude, you said the uzumaki's invented the jinchuriki seal,i just gave you a manga page that slapped you in the face disproving you. 'a basic english' to a complete definition? 'Viz says'? Hamura helped him?
Butt hurt much madara fanboy?

Is this relevant? No. Why? Because the genetics of Rikudou inside Madara constantly adapted themselves. Thus, putting Madara's Rikudou power at Rikudou's.

Actually it is relevant. There are no genetics involved in 'handing out' power like hagoromo did to his two sons, or to naruto and sasuke for that matter. Its just pure skill and yin yang manipulation, of a caliber that madara(your fave) is incapable of.

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''Full power of the Rinnegan at its original wielder's hands''

Which of those 3 links states that Madara's rinnegan had the same power as Hagoromo's you fool?? Can you point it out to me bro?

The manga says it, not me:

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Lol hahahahahaha. So because madara himself says he has 'both those powers' that means his power is equal to Hagoromo's ???Lmao what a fcking noob!!!!
Listen, idiot. Madara saying he has both those powers doesn't prove that his power is equal to hagoromo's, it only proves that he has the same rinnegan and senjutsu(obviously). But as the difference between two sharingan users will attest, there can and probably still is a huge gap from individual trait to individual trait.

Concession accepted. This will be last reply.

I hope so. You are quite dumb, and a fanboy to boot.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Yet that fanbase reminds you of your place. Quite the fanbase it is.



First, you assumed their Chakra manipulated by Sasuke without basing an evidence. No, their Chakra was not manipulated by the Rinnegan. Second, you assumed the Rinnegan is what controlled them without basing a proof. Both Obito and Madara were controlling Juubi's power without using the Rinnegan. Sasuke's Rinnegan has Sharingan's power intact to it, and Sharingan reflects on the Bijuu, meaning you have no evidence that Rinnegan was all the control. Until you bring a proof of the Rinnegan is what controlled the Bijuu's Chakra, your baseless speculation is baseless, from your ass, it's not relevant and never will be. Simple as that.

Why does this idiot brag about his assumptions being more factor than manga? Bring me a proof that Madara can't use Rikudou's powers at its full potential instead of crying.



Cry me the river.

Haha. No. No, you're simply failing and showing just how far fanboyism can warp perceptions.


Riiiigggghhhhttt. Sasuke pretty much used the reverse of COAT (support by the raw a Madara fan posted) and you're trying to make a bullcrap excuse that it wasn't the rinnegan. Wow.


Oh, and the fact that he was loosing control over the bijus and conveniently lost control of his rinnegan at the same time. Oh, I'm sure this is just a coincidence.

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Ahahahahahahahah! Ok, this is hilarious! I just RESTATED THE MANGA SCAN AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT I'M THE ONE BRAGGING ABOUT ASSUMPTIONS!


No, you bring proof that he can. There's never been a statement in the manga that "Madara is now the equal of Hagoromo" so you better do a darn good job of finding a statement that actually states this.

 

[Benjamin King]

Haha. No. No, you're simply failing and showing just how far fanboyism can warp perceptions.

What ever you say, young man.

Riiiigggghhhhttt. Sasuke pretty much used the reverse of COAT (support by the raw a Madara fan posted) and you're trying to make a bullcrap excuse that it wasn't the rinnegan. Wow.

Rinnegan is apparently able to use Yin-Yang techniques. Cool fan-fic. Now, manga please?

Oh, and the fact that he was loosing control over the bijus and conveniently lost control of his rinnegan at the same time. Oh, I'm sure this is just a coincidence.

Stupid or idiot? How does that translate Rinnegan controlling Chakra of Bijuu's? It doesn't. Your reading skills are piss poor and you cannot comprehend anything. What ever move Sasuke used to control the 9 Bijuu, is exactly the same way Obito and Madara used to control the Juubi. That is what Kurama compared; and that is the skills in controlling the Bijuu's to Hagoromo, and doesn't translate to Rinnegan's skills, because the Rinnegan was never used to merge the Chakra together.

Ahahahahahahahah! Ok, this is hilarious! I just RESTATED THE MANGA SCAN AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT I'M THE ONE BRAGGING ABOUT ASSUMPTIONS!

...?...

No, you bring proof that he can. There's never been a statement in the manga that "Madara is now the equal of Hagoromo" so you better do a darn good job of finding a statement that actually states this.

I just brought a proof that Madara states he has the combined power of Rikudou Senjutsu and Rinnegan; and you somehow ass-pulled that he can't use it at its full potential without bringing a proof.

 

[TrollingSage]

Looking at it from a logical standpoint, Hagoromo stomps. They're both juubi jins so take that out of the equation. You have rinnegan Madara vs Pre Juubi Hagoromo. Now Pre juubi Hagoromo defeated the juubi along with Hamura. Now if we assume Hamura and Hagoromo were roughly equal, that means Madara should be able to defeat Kaguya Juubi with someone equal to himself, say 2 Madaras. This is where the question lies. If anyone thinks 2 Juubiless Madara can beat the juubi or create the ****ing moon.