Sasuke's limits?

lucario14

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This is mostly fanfic but...
-Maybe he can upgrade his 6t rinnesharingan to 9t rinnesharingan.
-Learns/develops a sage mode
-mastery of rinnegan techs
-nature transformation (raiton) to augment combat (like A)

Yes he can definitely become more powerful...he could become as powerful as he was when he took in the bijuu.
 

Nagi

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....how does asura's decision in anyway shape or form affect what I'm saying about indra?

Asura is grey, indra is grey, whatever asura decided to do is on asura's head, justl like whatever indra decided to do was on indra's head.

Plus, where in the manga did it state or imply that asura didn't try to talk no jutsu indra every time they fought?


....and what implies that he didn't try that?

And again, why in the world does that make hagoromo in anyway responsible for indra's actions? If Hagoromo didn't try that, then blame hagoromo for not attempting to try that. Don't blame hagoromo for what indra did.
1. I never said anything about it shaping or affecting your view on Indra. I just simply say don't look at Indra black/white. You gave me your reply and I gave you my closing statement. Now you trying to create an argument out of it and not respect my closing statement.

2. The manga clearly stated they both fought over and over until their body was destroy. Since the NB claim that Asura was stronger than Indra. How come he didn't beat him down, then try to talk some sense into him? Unless you wanna say he was holding back and allow Indra to take him out in battle? Oh well, we don't know.

3. Hagoromo is the father. A father should know or foreshadow the outcome of his decision. On top of all this, he allowed his mother's problems affect his son. Of course he should take some responsibility.. A simple "Indra, please, help your brother Ashura make the world a better place" would do. In today's world, when kids do dumb shit and all, we all point at their parents. So I don't see no reason for hagoromo to get special treatment here.
 

lanakui8

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1. I never said anything about it shaping or affecting your view on Indra. I just simply say don't look at Indra black/white. You gave me your reply and I gave you my closing statement. Now you trying to create an argument out of it and not respect my closing statement.
....so you're basically agreeing with what I've said.

2. The manga clearly stated they both fought over and over until their body was destroy. Since the NB claim that Asura was stronger than Indra. How come he didn't beat him down, then try to talk some sense into him? Unless you wanna say he was holding back and allow Indra to take him out in battle? Oh well, we don't know.
Who claims that asura is stronger than indra? If Asura was stronger than indra and asura didn't want to talk to indra, asura would have just killed indra off and the wars would be over.

The only possible conclusions are that they were equals, or asura was stronger than indra, beat indra a lot of times and tried to TnJ indra/ let him live.

3. Hagoromo is the father. A father should know or foreshadow the outcome of his decision. On top of all this, he allowed his mother's problems affect his son. Of course he should take some responsibility.. A simple "Indra, please, help your brother Ashura make the world a better place" would do. In today's world, when kids do dumb shit and all, we all point at their parents. So I don't see no reason for hagoromo to get special treatment here.
...no one can literally know what other people will decide to do when they make their decisions, and even if they have a good idea about what another person will do, they still aren't responsible for that person's actions.
What in the world does the bolded even mean? Why can't i just rephrase it and say that Kaguya allowed her problems to affect hagoromo and his sons? Why can't I rephrase it and say Hagoromo's sons allowed themselves to be affected by kaguya's problems? I can just reword it so that anyone who I want to blame for the problems gets blamed, and that's why the bolded is just nonsensical.

Hagoromo is absolutely not receiving special treatment, if there was something he could have done to TnJ indra and he decided not to do it, then it's hagoromo's fault for not doing that. However, it's not hagoromo's fault for what indra decides to do regardless of what hagoromo does or doesn't do himself.

And Lol at you calling Indra and Asura 'kids' despite Indra warring against Asura when Hagoromo became an old man.
 
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Nagi

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....so you're basically agreeing with what I've said.


Who claims that asura is stronger than indra? If Asura was stronger than indra and asura didn't want to talk to indra, asura would have just killed indra off and the wars would be over.

The only possible conclusions are that they were equals, or asura was stronger than indra, beat indra a lot of times and tried to TnJ indra/ let him live.


...no one can literally know what other people will decide to do when they make their decisions, and even if they have a good idea about what another person will do, they still aren't responsible for that person's actions.
What in the world does the bolded even mean? Why can't i just rephrase it and say that Kaguya allowed her problems to affect hagoromo and his sons? Why can't I rephrase it and say Hagoromo's sons allowed themselves to be affected by kaguya's problems?

Hagoromo is absolutely not receiving special treatment, if there was something he could have done to TnJ indra and he decided not to do it, then it's hagoromo's fault for not doing that. However, it's not hagoromo's fault for what indra decides to do regardless of what hagoromo does or doesn't do himself.

And Lol at you calling Indra and Asura 'kids' despite Indra warring against Asura when Hagoromo became an old man.
Finally somebody on here with a logical mind. I got what I came for. Thank you! Good Night!
 

Sharingan King

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...um, I'd feel like my parents made the right choice because if my brother is so untalented that he can't even offer any meaningful assistance to my family, then he needs whatever my parents left him, while I, being talented, wouldn't need that stuff.

Plus, your example has almost nothing to do with indra and asura. Asura gained the ability to 'provide meaningful assistance to the family' before he was given hagoromo's gift.

Next, if I was so insecure and obsessed with power/money that I would go to war against my own brother because my father gave him the wealth, then it just proves that my father was right in not choosing me with the task of finding world peace.



Unless you believe and want to assert that Indra has no free will and only hagoromo does, the indra is responsible for indra's actions, not anyone else.

It's indra's fault for feeling betrayed by hagoromo. Hagoromo never promised him anything, it's indra's own fault for creating these false expectations and getting mad when these false expectations weren't met. It's also indra's fault for choosing to act upon his hatred for hagoromo and asura, and for agreeing to do whatever black zetsu urged him on to do.

Hagoromo's goal was world peace. Indra proved hagoromo's decision to choose asura right when he decided to war against asura. If Indra was truly after world peace, then he puts whatever hatred he has aside for that goal, he doesn't do the exact opposite of that goal just because he's jealous of his brother.

You are the one who's playing dumb, it's blatantly obvious when you have to constantly assert that Indra is not responsible for indra's actions.
Still playing dumb?

Imagine you work in a company with lazy coworkers. You do most of the work, and you are the most qualified. Yet you are paid less than your lazy, unqualified coworkers. Would you be ok with that?

Equal pay for equal work.

Indra felt that he rightfully deserved the same inheritance if not more. Yet Ashura gained everything.

Hagoromo was a fool. A real parent would be fair.
 

lanakui8

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Still playing dumb?

Imagine you work in a company with lazy coworkers. You do most of the work, and you are the most qualified. Yet you are paid less than your lazy, unqualified coworkers. Would you be ok with that?
i've already dismantled this argument in the very post you've quoted.

Asura was in no way a lazy coworker, he had to put in way more effort than indra did. Asura gained equal power to indra before hagoromo chose him, so any kind of comparison like what you're trying to argue goes out the window.

Finally, indra proved himself to be more unqualified than asura since the goal of Hagoromo's was world peace, yet indra chose to war with asura just because of his personal jealousy over his brother and anger towards his father.

Equal pay for equal work.

Indra felt that he rightfully deserved the same inheritance if not more. Yet Ashura gained everything.

Hagoromo was a fool. A real parent would be fair.
Yep, this is only true if you take two fingers and stab yourself in the eyes before reading 90% of the details about what happened between hagoromo, indra and asura.
 

Benjamin King

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Depends on how effective he uses the Rinnegan and how much DC they carry. But with experience of his power and using the 6 Paths, he will become stronger than Naruto eventually. It's obviously not going to be on Madara's or Hagoromo's level, given to how Sasuke's reserves is nothing compared to them and his lacking of the Rinnegan's full power, as well as the experience and skill to match his ancestors.

He should roughly be above Naruto and below Madara/Hagoromo.
 
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King Of Pop

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man, with more time to train his rinnegan, he would be a beast. what makes sasuke strong is that he has the tendency to combine jutsus in order words he can combine his Ems techs with rinnegan for example ps, look how op chidori was when he used it with ps. now picture him using rinnegan paths with it, it would be amplified because he also possess rikudous chakra which boost his jutsu more just like how he boosted his soosano. sasuke should use his jutsus through ps, it would be much stronger that way so yes i frimly believe he can possibly reach his level with bijjus.

hes used CT(without a core for that matter), preta and possibly outer when he absorbed bijjus chakra yet hes only had it hardly a day, give him 2 or 3 years and we would be seeing some some epic combo. he can improve upon hes genjutsu, possibly gain more range. basically him in "the last" would be a walking beast heck he even deactivated his rinnegan there. also heres an interesting statement that itachi made

You must be registered for see images

he hyped up combination of rinne and ms, both doujutsus sasuke posseses and hes on a much higher level than both of them.
 

Sharingan King

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i've already dismantled this argument in the very post you've quoted.

Asura was in no way a lazy coworker, he had to put in way more effort than indra did. Asura gained equal power to indra before hagoromo chose him, so any kind of comparison like what you're trying to argue goes out the window.

Finally, indra proved himself to be more unqualified than asura since the goal of Hagoromo's was world peace, yet indra chose to war with asura just because of his personal jealousy over his brother and anger towards his father.


Yep, this is only true if you take two fingers and stab yourself in the eyes before reading 90% of the details about what happened between hagoromo, indra and asura.
You've dismantled nothing. U_U

Sage said Indra was better than Ashura from birth. Ashura needed alot of training and help from people to equal Indra.

Ashura may not have been lazy, but he wasn't as talented or intelligent as Indra. Hence, my analogy was accurate. Its unfair to pay a low skilled/unqualified/dumb worker a bigger salary than a highly skilled/qualified/intelligent one.

Indra didn't fight himself. Indra and Ashura fought each other. Hence, Ashura also went to war. He didn't try to share his position with Indra; he wanted it for himself.

You can keep your incorrect opinion if you want to do so. U_U
 
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lanakui8

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You've dismantled nothing. U_U

Sage said Indra was better than Ashura from birth. Ashura needed alot of training and help from people to equal Indra.
Exactly, so your argument about asura being lazy or being someone who didn't pull equal weight as indra when hagoromo made his decision is completely false.

Ashura may not have been lazy, but he wasn't as talented or intelligent as Indra. Hence, my analogy was accurate. Its unfair to pay a low skilled/unqualified/dumb worker a bigger salary than a highly skilled/qualified/intelligent one.
...except ashura started out as a low skilled/unqualified worker, but when the decision was made, he was indra's equal and therefore was just as qualified as indra.

In addition to that, indra proved himself that he was as unqualified as a person could get when he decided to attack asura out of jealousy.

Indra didn't fight himself. Indra and Ashura fought each other. Hence, Ashura also went to war. He didn't try to share his position with Indra; he wanted it for himself.
Obviously if indra chooses to try and kill Ashura, asurah is going to fight back in self defense. Read the manga, indra was literally stated to be the one who went after his brother's life because of hagoromo's decision. Who said that Ashura didn't try to reason with indra? Who said that Ashura could actually give indra half the power hagoromo gave him, and why in the living hell would Asura share his position with someone who's so unqualified and petty for that position that he'd attack his brother and start the biggest chain of wars the earth has ever known because of personal jealousy?

And guess what? Even if asura was just as bad as indra, that in no way shape or form makes what indra did right. HE's still the one who's choosing to kill and war because of his petty personal grudges.

You can keep your incorrect opinion if you want to do so. U_U
How many times do I have to completely thrash your arguments?

Your the guy who tried to make asurah out as someone who's lazy, and wasn't indra's equal when hagoromo made his decision.
You're the guy who's trying to argue that Indra was not wrong and was qualified for seeking world peace when he does the absolute opposite of that out of pure petty personal jealousy.

Lets continue this argument over and over, I'll thrash your blatant lies over and over.
 

Sharingan King

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Exactly, so your argument about asura being lazy or being someone who didn't pull equal weight as indra when hagoromo made his decision is completely false.


...except ashura started out as a low skilled/unqualified worker, but when the decision was made, he was indra's equal and therefore was just as qualified as indra.

In addition to that, indra proved himself that he was as unqualified as a person could get when he decided to attack asura out of jealousy.


Obviously if indra chooses to try and kill Ashura, asurah is going to fight back in self defense. Read the manga, indra was literally stated to be the one who went after his brother's life because of hagoromo's decision. Who said that Ashura didn't try to reason with indra? Who said that Ashura could actually give indra half the power hagoromo gave him, and why in the living hell would Asura share his position with someone who's so unqualified and petty for that position that he'd attack his brother and start the biggest chain of wars the earth has ever known because of personal jealousy?

And guess what? Even if asura was just as bad as indra, that in no way shape or form makes what indra did right. HE's still the one who's choosing to kill and war because of his petty personal grudges.


How many times do I have to completely thrash your arguments?

Your the guy who tried to make asurah out as someone who's lazy, and wasn't indra's equal when hagoromo made his decision.
You're the guy who's trying to argue that Indra was not wrong and was qualified for seeking world peace when he does the absolute opposite of that out of pure petty personal jealousy.

Lets continue this argument over and over, I'll thrash your blatant lies over and over.
@bold:

They were equal (in the end) and yet Hagoromo the fool entrusted everything to one son. Just goes to show his favoritism. A true parent trusts and loves all their children equally.

Indra was jealous; but rightfully so. Equally skilled workers should get equal pay.

Especially, since Indra was better than Ashura for years before he finaly caught up.

Hagoromo the fool finally corrected his mistake by bestowing equal power to both and leaving the future of the ninja world in both of their hands; not just Naruto's.

Hagoromo acknowledges his mistake; yet you don't. Just goes to show how dense you really are. Lol
 

lanakui8

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@bold:

They were equal (in the end) and yet Hagoromo the fool entrusted everything to one son. Just goes to show his favoritism. A true parent trusts and loves all their children equally.
...your opinion of what hagoromo chose to do is completely and utterly irrelevant. Hagoromo chose Asura because he believed Asura's way was the right way to go about peace. It had nothing to do with personally favoring one son over the other, had Indra chosen to work together with everyone and asura chosen to stand alone, Hagoromo would have chosen indra.

And no, a true parent LOVES their children equally, but a true parent doesn't necessarily have to trust their children equally. A true parent may love both his sons equally, but if one son steals from him every single day while the other one has never done it once in his life, he obviously is going to trust the one that doesn't steal a whole lot more than the one who does, and rightfully so.

Indra was jealous; but rightfully so. Equally skilled workers should get equal pay.
So if the frieza and goku were equally as powerful, the fate of the world should be entrusted to both of them despite one of them having the desire to destroy the world and the other one to save it? Ideals have absolutely nothing to do with responsibility?

Get the hell out of here, stop wasting my time.

Especially, since Indra was better than Ashura for years before he finaly caught up.
What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Hagoromo the fool finally corrected his mistake by bestowing equal power to both and leaving the future of the ninja world in both of their hands; not just Naruto's.
...yet naruto and sasuke still fought.

Hagoromo acknowledges his mistake; yet you don't. Just goes to show how dense you really are. Lol
Concession accepted.

This is you literally ignoring the countless times I've stated that hagoromo is responsible for hagoromo's decisions while indra is responsible for indra's decisions. If hagoromo believes it was a mistake to entrust everything to asura, then that's hagoromo's mistake. However it's absolutely not hagoromo's fault for whatever indra consciously and willingly decide to do with whatever hand he's dealt. Unless of course you want to argue that indra has no free will.
 
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Sharingan King

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...your opinion of what hagoromo chose to do is completely and utterly irrelevant. Hagoromo chose Asura because he believed Asura's way was the right way to go about peace. It had nothing to do with personally favoring one son over the other, had Indra chosen to work together with everyone and asura chosen to stand alone, Hagoromo would have chosen indra.

And no, a true parent LOVES their children equally, but a true parent doesn't necessarily have to trust their children equally. A true parent may love both his sons equally, but if one son steals from him every single day while the other one has never done it once in his life, he obviously is going to trust the one that doesn't steal a whole lot more than the one who does, and rightfully so.
Its your opinion that is irrelevant. Hagoromo's opinion of himself is the most valid one and the one I agree with.

Even Minato knew that a true parent always believes in their children. Its exactly what he told Naruto. He had faith in Naruto's abilities and trusted him completely. Hagoromo realized it was his fault for not trusting and believing in Indra as well.

Indra wanted the same thing as Ashura. He just believed in achieving the same goal in a different manner. Its not Indra's fault that he was so sklled in the art of solo that he didn't need people to become powerful. Its not his fault for being more naturally gifted and intelligent than Ashura. Indra loved and respected Hagoromo until Hagoromo refused to put the same faith in him that he placed in Ashura.

So if the frieza and goku were equally as powerful, the fate of the world should be entrusted to both of them despite one of them having the desire to destroy the world and the other one to save it? Ideals have absolutely nothing to do with responsibility?

Get the hell out of here, stop wasting my time.
That's where you are wrong again. Indra never wanted to destroy the world. He wanted peace just like Ashura, but just via different means. He never had any malevolent intentions until Hagoromo displayed his fanboyism over Ashura. His intentions were good.

What in the world does that have to do with anything?
It means that Indra was more naturally gifted. I would admire the natural talents of my son while still favoring the hard work of the other son. I would trust them both; that's what parents do.

...yet naruto and sasuke still fought.
Yet they are now happy and willing to work together. Sasuke was able to fight Naruto on equal terms; one wasn't able to stomp the other. He had no hate for Naruto or Hagoromo; he simply wished to instill his version of peace. He was willing to sacrifice himself for the world. He acknowledges Naruto as his true friend in the end. They fought over ideals not because of hate and jealously. Hence, they can now work together.


Concession accepted.

This is you literally ignoring the countless times I've stated that hagoromo is responsible for hagoromo's decisions while indra is responsible for indra's decisions. If hagoromo believes it was a mistake to entrust everything to asura, then that's hagoromo's mistake. However it's absolutely not hagoromo's fault for whatever indra consciously and willingly decide to do with whatever hand he's dealt. Unless of course you want to argue that indra has no free will.
As I said, Hagoromo's opinion is the most valid one. A good people person and parent would know how to treat their children. Fanboying over one child while neglecting the other leads to mistrust, jealousy and hatred.

Indra had free will, just like we all do. Yet we all experience hatred, mistrust and jealousy too, especially when its over the love and acceptance of a loved one. Children naturally feel envious over the parent's favorite. They want to be accepted equally.

Indra was jealous; but rightfully so.

Indra chose to attack Ashura; that is true, but it could have been avoided. I never said that Indra wasn't wrong to attack his brother. However, he was justified in feeling the way that he did.

My original point was that Hagoromo was foolish for the decision he made and also a bad parent. This is something he acknowledges.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth; I never said Indra didn't have free will.
 

Lightbringer

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In terms of raw power, no he can't, at least not without Bijuu chakra.

But in terms of skill and jutsu, ofcourse. There's always room for improvement in those aspects.
 
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