[Spoilers] Sasuke lost [NOT THE WAY WE THINK]

[davidou]

Sasuke LOST THE FIGHT. If Naruto had INTENT TO KILL, he would've succeeded in killing Sauce. But since Naruto held back to a certain degree, that holding back is what kept him on level with Sasuke through the fight.

Think of it this way, though they have rules to avoid lethal strikes/death, when MMA fighters they fight WITH intent to subdue until Ref's end the fight (or in otherwords, KILL.) Disregard morale compass, if referees weren't present to stop fights and enforce rules, the majority of the fighters who lost would be on their death beds.

Now imagine a fight with no Ref's to intervene. (Naruto Vs Sasuke)

Imagine if a fighter who decided not to follow the rules, going for lethal strikes and no Morale compass to stop after the pennant is conscienceless. Main goal is victory through death. No holds barred. (Sasuke)

VS

Imagine a fighter who knowingly enters this fight, with no intent to kill, still following fighting rules, avoiding lethal strikes ext, even without the ref present. Main goal is victory through normal means, aka not killing, following normal MMA fight procedure. This substantially puts this fighter at a FAR GREATER DISADVANTAGE. (Naruto)

Naruto still came out on top, while still holding back his killing potential.

They may have technically been unable to move and unable to fight in the end, but since Naruto was at a greater disadvantage and yet still pulled out a draw...

Naruto won

I also thought about it , but wasn't Sasuke's intent to kill an advantage for Naruto?
Sasuke never stopped attacking Naruto while Naruto was on a defensive mode.
This could be the best way to beat a Yin master , survive his attacks and wait until he is weak.



Naruto's goal is to survive Sasuke without killing him , Sasuke's is to kill Naruto.

What is harder:
-Being a Yin master and killing a Yang master
-Being a Yang master and surviving a Yin master without killing the Yin master

As Yang masters have huge life force , they need to be punched harder to die , that could be a disadvantage for the Yin master.
As Yang masters have a huge life force , it may be advantageous for the Yang master that the Yin master won't stop attacking.
If a smart Yang master had fought Sasuke with intend to kill , I bet he would have chosen that "hold back" strategy , given that endurance is one of his strengh , before killing the exhausted Yin master.
If you think about it , that's how Hashirama stabbed Madara's heart with his sword.

 

[davidou]

How can you say that for sure? You are now going into fanfic, IF does not mean anything. For all we know, Naruto could have tripped up dropped on the ground, hit his head and died.

I smell deny here.

 

[Donald J Trump]

I smell deny here.

do you mean denial? Also denial is not a bad thing, it's like if someone denies that superman is real, does that make it bad?No.

I am saying if and but are fanfic and nothing can be exact

 

[davidou]

do you mean denial? Also denial is not a bad thing, it's like if someone denies that superman is real, does that make it bad?No.

Yes it does.
Denial makes you look stupid , especially if you are denying an interesting point.

 

[Jako98146]

You could argue that Sasuke passed out first. Technically, the first one to lose consciousness is considered the loser. But you can also argue that both parties are unable to move, and regardless if they're knocked out or awake, they were both unable to fight.

So I suppose it's a matter of perspective

 

[Yuri Uzuma]

Finally. Naruto has beaten some rational sense to him. I'm really satisfied with this ending. There wasn't much TNJ and Sasuke finally realized everything. It was really wise chapter and once again Kishimoto-san showed the real meaning of this story.

 

[Byron123]

Well techniqually and just technically, even though you're perfectly correct, since Naruto has inside of him Kurama, his chakra reserves would get replenished faster so he would have the chance to attack to a yet weak and defensless Sasuke. Maybe an honorary victory but it would be a victory nonetheless.

 

[ᖇ α z m α η]

Disagreed .​

 

[Honord Sage]

By Sasuke own standers He is a Loser,Did not Kill the Kages,Did not started a Revolution ,did not force Himself to be the Hokage and could not kill Naruto. Stop your apology tour out of Sasuke mouth "I lost" You lost its Canon now and for ever the history books say Sasuke lost.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

By Sasuke own standers He is a Loser,Did not Kill the Kages,Did not started a Revolution ,did not force Himself to be the Hokage and could not kill Naruto. Stop your apology tour out of Sasuke mouth "I lost" You lost its Canon now and for ever the history books say Sasuke lost.

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Wrong again.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

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Wrong again.

Wrong? Sasuke lost the overall battle which was for him to achieve his goals which are to kill the kage, kill naruto, kill the tailed beasts and be a common enemy for the five villages to fight! Sasuke lost the fight of ideals which Naruto won him over through TNJ by making him remember every time Naruto chased him and hear him talk about his stuff he hurt as much as Sasuke did this triggered the flashback Sasuke had.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Wrong? Sasuke lost the overall battle which was for him to achieve his goals which are to kill the kage, kill naruto, kill the tailed beasts and be a common enemy for the five villages to fight! Sasuke lost the fight of ideals which Naruto won him over through TNJ by making him remember every time Naruto chased him and hear him talk about his stuff he hurt as much as Sasuke did this triggered the flashback Sasuke had.

The overall battle is the both of them lying there, dying. Sasuke lost the emotional battle and such, I agree. Naruto contested that lost with there are no winners or losers in that fight. So the psychical battle, it was an even bout. The emotional and such, it was narutos game. And I don't think that was tnj, that was ninshuu imo because he and sasuke literally understood each other, and it was revealed sasuke was also jealous of naruto, the same way naruto was always jealous of him.

So this was a very nice way to end the fight, both of them bleeding out, incapable of moving, telling each other they're good again, and just waiting to possibly die beside each other.

 

[Taimaidamshoo]

I also thought about it , but wasn't Sasuke's intent to kill an advantage for Naruto?
Sasuke never stopped attacking Naruto while Naruto was on a defensive mode.
This could be the best way to beat a Yin master , survive his attacks and wait until he is weak.



Naruto's goal is to survive Sasuke without killing him , Sasuke's is to kill Naruto.

What is harder:
-Being a Yin master and killing a Yang master
-Being a Yang master and surviving a Yin master without killing the Yin master

As Yang masters have huge life force , they need to be punched harder to die , that could be a disadvantage for the Yin master.
As Yang masters have a huge life force , it may be advantageous for the Yang master that the Yin master won't stop attacking.
If a smart Yang master had fought Sasuke with intend to kill , I bet he would have chosen that "hold back" strategy , given that endurance is one of his strengh , before killing the exhausted Yin master.
If you think about it , that's how Hashirama stabbed Madara's heart with his sword.

I see where you're headed with this.

But Naruto didn't really do anything defensive. More he matched offense with Sasuke's offense. But I guess in a way, that is a defense.

The only way I could explain my train of thought would be....

Gun Vs Stun Gun.

The guy with lethal bullets and more rounds has a greater chance of winning against the guy with a non lethal weapon and very few rounds. The guy with gun clearly has the Greater advantage than the guy with the stun gun, BUT the Stun Gun could very much win.

If this match were to end in a draw between the two. It would mean somehow the guy with the Stun Gun found a way to make up ground for the vast distance in advantage. More ground covered in the end at a draw wins.

 

[Taimaidamshoo]

How can you say that for sure? You are now going into fanfic, IF does not mean anything. For all we know, Naruto could have tripped up dropped on the ground, hit his head and died.

There is no Fanfic here, dat low level reading comprehension. Sigh.... It was a general statement, pointing out the fact that Naruto could've killed Sasuke if he wanted to in this fight, maybe not easily however. The point I was making is that NARUTO DID NOT WANT TO KILL SAUCE.

That put him at a greater disadvantage. Because Naruto was at a greater disadvantage and still managed to go toe for toe and end up in a draw, means that if Naruto had intent to kill, he'd be at a greater advantage at the beginning of battle than Sasuke and the probability would be that Naruto would win.

But because Naruto covered more ground as an Underdog in this fight and ended with a draw, technically he did win. Not due to popularity, but due to being able to make up for the disadvantage.


Base it off of facts that we know.

Naruto was again the underdog in this fight (holding back): Naruto -1
Sasuke used his most powerful techs +1, Had intent to kill +1: Sasuke +2

Naruto having -1 puts him at low odds of winning the fight
Sasuke having +2 puts him at high odds of winning the fight

The end result was Naruto (-1) = Sasuke (+2) a draw.
Naruto should've lost, but though his odds were low, he came up with a draw against someone who had a high advantage. The underdog came further. Win goes to the one who achieved the most with the least.

SO

Based on this fact. We can determine that had Naruto wanted to kill Sauce, the end result would favor Naruto beating/killing Sasuke with no draw. Naruto would be more capable of covering and achieving more with what odds he has than Sasuke would've.

Sauce face loses for tons of reasons.

 

[King Of Pop]

any "ifs" or "buts" is fanfic. so yes fist wise its a clear draw but ideals and plans sasuke lost in that regard.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

There is no Fanfic here, dat low level reading comprehension. Sigh.... It was a general statement, pointing out the fact that Naruto could've killed Sasuke if he wanted to in this fight, maybe not easily however. The point I was making is that NARUTO DID NOT WANT TO KILL SAUCE.

That put him at a greater disadvantage. Because Naruto was at a greater disadvantage and still managed to go toe for toe and end up in a draw, means that if Naruto had intent to kill, he'd be at a greater advantage at the beginning of battle than Sasuke and the probability would be that Naruto would win.

But because Naruto covered more ground as an Underdog in this fight and ended with a draw, technically he did win. Not due to popularity, but due to being able to make up for the disadvantage.


Base it off of facts that we know.

Naruto was again the underdog in this fight (holding back): Naruto -1
Sasuke used his most powerful techs +1, Had intent to kill +1: Sasuke +2

Naruto having -1 puts him at low odds of winning the fight
Sasuke having +2 puts him at high odds of winning the fight

The end result was Naruto (-1) = Sasuke (+2) a draw.
Naruto should've lost, but though his odds were low, he came up with a draw against someone who had a high advantage. The underdog came further. Win goes to the one who achieved the most with the least.

SO

Based on this fact. We can determine that had Naruto wanted to kill Sauce, the end result would favor Naruto beating/killing Sasuke with no draw. Naruto would be more capable of covering and achieving more with what odds he has than Sasuke would've.

Sauce face loses for tons of reasons.

This...well explained and very true +rep

 

[Taimaidamshoo]

any "ifs" or "buts" is fanfic. so yes fist wise its a clear draw but ideals and plans sasuke lost in that regard.

There is no "ifs" or "buts." Naruto was at a disadvantage. Diehard Saucetards have even said that Sasuke is far stronger than Naruto.

And Naruto still pulled off a draw, at a disadvantage (or a huge disadvantage if your a Saucetard.)

Though its a draw, Sauce failed at his goal to kill Naruto, Naruto suceeded at both making up for a disadvantage leading to a draw which is still technically an Underdog win, and Naruto won in terms of saving Sasuke from himself.

Naruto wins.

 

[KLhunter]

Why still arguing... Mangga has shown everything.. Sasuke admit lose to Naruto, even Sasuke use "Killer Lightning Kagutsuchi" as final attack & Naruto just counter it with "Basic Rasengan".. If Naruto use Rasenshuriken, definitely Sasuke wouldn't survive..

But what the SHOCKING ENDING????????

 

[UzumakiRyu]

Why still arguing... Mangga has shown everything.. Sasuke admit lose to Naruto, even Sasuke use "Killer Lightning Kagutsuchi" as final attack & Naruto just counter it with "Basic Rasengan".. If Naruto use Rasenshuriken, definitely Sasuke wouldn't survive..

But what the SHOCKING ENDING????????

What can we say? this will continue for a while I think lol but ya a great ending to one of the greatest manga I've read

 

[Taimaidamshoo]

Why still arguing... Mangga has shown everything.. Sasuke admit lose to Naruto, even Sasuke use "Killer Lightning Kagutsuchi" as final attack & Naruto just counter it with "Basic Rasengan".. If Naruto use Rasenshuriken, definitely Sasuke wouldn't survive..

But what the SHOCKING ENDING????????

Haha true true.

But if Naruto used RasenShuriken (Non throwable) against that Kagutsuchi... They both probably would've died cuz the catalyst effect of Fire and Wind/Air lol. It would've been a very touching conversation between 2 big blood splatters of Naruto and Sauce. -_-

Shocking end will be Kakashi Kill Stealing like he did to Kakuzu, but to Sasuke. Lol