Sasuke could gather chakra while Kurama is gathering chakra. If Naruto can't do anything but wait while Kurama is gathering chakra, then it's not really different than if Naruto was gathering the chakra himself.
[Discussion] Does Naruto contradict himself?
- Thread starter Byron123
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Oh I read I just realize you have neutral a opinion. And yes, he does contradict himself. Remember when he went berserk and became the 4 tails and hit Sakura. He didn't want to rely on the kyuubi's powerin general. But in order to even get stronger he mastered SM but to show his full potential he needed to master the kyuubi's power. What I'm saying is naruto contradicted himself already, I think he realizes doing things alone makes things harder. The jinchuriki and biju share power its the basis of their relationship, since the biju is inside its host.
Not true because in my scenario both Naruto and Kurama were completely drained out but if Naruto and Sasuke fight just with little chakra, then do the gathering while fighting is not that easy. However, naruto can fight however he likes because Kurama will give him later chakra as he gathers it inside of him. Sasuke can't have time to gather chakra while he fights.
Well I'm not against him trying to become stronger through cooperation but I just find it stupid to hear " I want to defeat you on my own". If you want that then use sage mode or black balls but don't use mode such as the bijuu one which can work only via Bijuu's cooperation.
True ok XD
But the point is that this happened because of plot reason and because of luck only because they engaged in such close combat. If we generalise it, in the long term Kurama's helps is always superior as another being who frees its host from gathering chakra.
Hypothetcally Naruto could have run away while Sasuke was trying to egnage him in a battle in order for Kurama to gather chakra while staying away from a preta path, so that he can return later, having replenished way more chakra than Sasuke thanks to Kurama's extraordinary ability to do that ony so that he can say "Did you miss me b!tches!" XD My example is extreme but you see what I'm trying to say.
so why can't that be consider a jinchuuriki's power? makes perfect sense
sasuke who has the rinnegan and the eye power is able to take away chakra
and naruto who is a jinchuuriki is able to replenish his chakra at a faster rate.
It's hard to tell what is plot, I mean the fight could have ended when naruto was running towards sasuke with that rasengan, but he tripped. or sasuke putting in one last chidori while punching naruto in the face, but naruto headbump him first.
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FreeTanner17
Active member
It's sad that people still won't admit to ashura being a jinchuuriki. His avatar was in the shape of a fox that looks just like narutos unique transparent like kurama avatar. What does that tell you? It would be stupid as hell to assume out of that that he wasn't a jinchuuriki but just so happened to have an avatar that looked almost exactly like kuramas jinchuuriki bijuu mode
Hata Hideaki
Active member
Tch.... Did you guys forgot that naruto defeated kurama in a 1 on 1 battle? Its true that kurama is a different being but naruto gained his power by defeating him. So the whole kurama giving naruto chakra is pointless. And also once you become a jinchuriki, the tailed beasts power is jinchuriki's power.
You said kurama giving naruto chakra is like a borrowed power right? Then answer this: when naruto creates a shadow clone and forms a rasengan/rasenshuriken does that mean he borrowed power from his clones? :| No right?
You said kurama giving naruto chakra is like a borrowed power right? Then answer this: when naruto creates a shadow clone and forms a rasengan/rasenshuriken does that mean he borrowed power from his clones? :| No right?
UzumakiRyu
Active member
Yes even though Sasuke's PS has no brain or the ability to think for itself it is still an entire different being with the strength of a tailed beast which Sasuke controls himself which I think gives him an advantage where Naruto works together with Kurama and ask him for chakra.Now in many occasions Naruto had said that he wanted to fight sasuke on 1 vs 1. I don't think that we need proof of that.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but using Kurama's cloak isn't a synomym of asking for help from a third party? The Bijuu?
I know very well that this fight was never meant to be 1 vs 1, since Sasuke decided to steal Bijuu's chakra to strengthen himself but at the end of the day their fight till that moment was supposed to be 1 vs 1.
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Also, I don't want you to confuse things, I'm not talking about borrowed powers but about help that has to do with 3rd individuals. Yes, Sasuke, would have never had EMS or rinnegan if it wasn't for Itachi and Hagoromo, yes his Susanoo would have never reached its current level but at least those are powers that are under his commands, they have no brain to think for themselves, they can offer no advices, they do what their user asks them to do without any objection
Kurama on the contrary is a quite cunning fellow who, apart from providing useful advice, is also capable of gathering huge amounts of chakra and even protect his jin when Naruto is off guard like how it happened with Kurama protecting Naruto from Amaterasu.
In Naruto latest mode we can see that he has a mastery over sage mode as well as his black balls. However, he still needs Kurama's cooperation to pull off Bijuu mode. I don't say that Naruto doesn't waste any chakra to use it but the truth is that most of this chakra belongs Kurama. Ashura at least could manifest his cloak on his own, or at least we've never learned that he was a jin.
I don't say that Naruto's current sage mode isn't OP, he was capable of cornering madara just for fun, but his decision to use Bijuu mode against Sasuke doesn't immediately mean that his desire to defeat " Sasuke alone" doesn't hold any basis?
I mean, can you say "I want to defeat you but yo with the chakra of others"? Many naruto fans even say that in the latest chapter Sasuke stole Naruto's chakra while we know that this chakra originates from Kurama, not from Naruto. I mean it's obvious that in the last chapter naruto did not have any chakra left either, much like Sasuke.
So my question is this: Doesn't Naruto contradict himself when he says that he wants to defeat Sasuke on his own but yet he immiediately seeks cooperation to achieve that?
As I said, I'm not compering the fact that they both use borrowed powers but rather Naruto using the help of other entities, individuals, who can think, advice and even act for themselves working basically as comrades.
I'm not against team play but seriously when you clearly talk abour a rivalry, how much impact can your words have when the match is between an individual and his borrowed powers (Sasuke) and an individual whose borrowed powes are more or less complete entities.
Can this still be considered a 1 vs 1 figth?
Please no biased opinions, I search for some serious answers
Can you honestly tell me that with his PS he isn't at a distinct advantage if Naruto didn't have Kurama. or would you in your unbiased opinion have Sasuke without PS seeing as though for fairness sake when Naruto would in this situation be without Kurama.
Flaming Amaterasu
Active member
I agree. However, during the hand to hand, it was just naruto and Sasuke's power, and they beat the shit out of each other, which was epic as hell. So kurama is only used to boost naruto to higher heights then his opponents, as naruto was just using his own chakra to ambush sasuke with kage bushin lmfao... whyen they were hugging each other at the waterfall is when kurama attempted to give naruto his chakra, in which sasuke intercepted, and now we have the current situation.
But I believe sasuke wasn't able to get all of kuramas chakra, since kurama and naruto's chakra are linked together, so naruto probably was able to get some of it as well.
Eye of the Beholder
Member
You are right. Without Kurama, Naruto will be just another average ninja... Even his father on the day of his birth say :"Naruto you will need the power of Nine-tails....." So I'm agreed with you.Now in many occasions Naruto had said that he wanted to fight sasuke on 1 vs 1. I don't think that we need proof of that.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but using Kurama's cloak isn't a synomym of asking for help from a third party? The Bijuu?
I know very well that this fight was never meant to be 1 vs 1, since Sasuke decided to steal Bijuu's chakra to strengthen himself but at the end of the day their fight till that moment was supposed to be 1 vs 1.
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Also, I don't want you to confuse things, I'm not talking about borrowed powers but about help that has to do with 3rd individuals. Yes, Sasuke, would have never had EMS or rinnegan if it wasn't for Itachi and Hagoromo, yes his Susanoo would have never reached its current level but at least those are powers that are under his commands, they have no brain to think for themselves, they can offer no advices, they do what their user asks them to do without any objection
Kurama on the contrary is a quite cunning fellow who, apart from providing useful advice, is also capable of gathering huge amounts of chakra and even protect his jin when Naruto is off guard like how it happened with Kurama protecting Naruto from Amaterasu.
In Naruto latest mode we can see that he has a mastery over sage mode as well as his black balls. However, he still needs Kurama's cooperation to pull off Bijuu mode. I don't say that Naruto doesn't waste any chakra to use it but the truth is that most of this chakra belongs Kurama. Ashura at least could manifest his cloak on his own, or at least we've never learned that he was a jin.
I don't say that Naruto's current sage mode isn't OP, he was capable of cornering madara just for fun, but his decision to use Bijuu mode against Sasuke doesn't immediately mean that his desire to defeat " Sasuke alone" doesn't hold any basis?
I mean, can you say "I want to defeat you but yo with the chakra of others"? Many naruto fans even say that in the latest chapter Sasuke stole Naruto's chakra while we know that this chakra originates from Kurama, not from Naruto. I mean it's obvious that in the last chapter naruto did not have any chakra left either, much like Sasuke.
So my question is this: Doesn't Naruto contradict himself when he says that he wants to defeat Sasuke on his own but yet he immiediately seeks cooperation to achieve that?
As I said, I'm not compering the fact that they both use borrowed powers but rather Naruto using the help of other entities, individuals, who can think, advice and even act for themselves working basically as comrades.
I'm not against team play but seriously when you clearly talk abour a rivalry, how much impact can your words have when the match is between an individual and his borrowed powers (Sasuke) and an individual whose borrowed powes are more or less complete entities.
Can this still be considered a 1 vs 1 figth?
Please no biased opinions, I search for some serious answers
He wants to fight against Sasuke in a 1 vs 1 fight , but:Please no biased opinions, I search for some serious answers
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It's not that Sasuke that he wants to fight.
So , no Naruto didn't contradict himself.
Did I solo the thread?
So you're saying that if Sasuke hadn't ended up stealing Bijuu's chakra, Naruto wouldn't have used Kurama as well?
It's not like I don't admit it, I simply am not sure. If he was indeed a Jin they why we've never learned whose Jin was?
It's not the same. I don't question the correctness of Naruto achieving this power but I'm asking if there is a contradiction between saying that he wants to defeat Sasuke alone and then he seeks cooperation in Kurama. Clones are not the same thing, they will be created by Naruto's volition alone, however if Kurama doesn't cooperate perfectly, then Naruto can't pull off Bijuu mode, that's what I'm talking about.
Well at least Sasuke has to use his own chakra to keep Susanoo intact whereas as in Naruto's case without Kurama's cooperation, Naruto can't achieve bijuu mode.
So you're saying that if Sasuke hadn't ended up using the Bijuu, then would Naruto agree to fight Sasuke without asking for Kurama's cooperation aka Bijuu Mode? After a 1 vs 1 fight means exactly 1 person versus another and Kurama can certainly be considered a second entity. I don't say that he doesn't have the rigth to use Kurama but at least he shouldn't say "I won't to defeat you alone" while his very mode, BM, requires bijuu's cooperation.
Naruto's and Kurama's chakra are mixed together now since the seal was released. They used to be just about separate with only a small amount of Kurama's chakra going into Naruto. Naruto cannot gather chakra in the middle of a fight unless Sasuke would be willing to give him a time out. He can't sit still for that long or Sasuke will kill him. In order to not die from running out of chakra, Kurama is molding chakra for him.
Naruto has had Kurama his entire life so he is just using what he's always had. I don't believe he thinks he's contadicting himself because of that. There came a time when he had to face the fact that he was a jinchuriki and work with it or be at odds with who he was for the rest of his life. He chose to work with Kurama instead of having Kurama work against him. He will die if he loses Kurama so I don't see that he really has much of a choice.
Naruto has had Kurama his entire life so he is just using what he's always had. I don't believe he thinks he's contadicting himself because of that. There came a time when he had to face the fact that he was a jinchuriki and work with it or be at odds with who he was for the rest of his life. He chose to work with Kurama instead of having Kurama work against him. He will die if he loses Kurama so I don't see that he really has much of a choice.