[Discussion] Does Naruto contradict himself?

Byron123

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Now in many occasions Naruto had said that he wanted to fight sasuke on 1 vs 1. I don't think that we need proof of that.


Now correct me if I'm wrong but using Kurama's cloak isn't a synomym of asking for help from a third party? The Bijuu?

I know very well that this fight was never meant to be 1 vs 1, since Sasuke decided to steal Bijuu's chakra to strengthen himself but at the end of the day their fight till that moment was supposed to be 1 vs 1.
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Also, I don't want you to confuse things, I'm not talking about borrowed powers but about help that has to do with 3rd individuals. Yes, Sasuke, would have never had EMS or rinnegan if it wasn't for Itachi and Hagoromo, yes his Susanoo would have never reached its current level but at least those are powers that are under his commands, they have no brain to think for themselves, they can offer no advices, they do what their user asks them to do without any objection

Kurama on the contrary is a quite cunning fellow who, apart from providing useful advice, is also capable of gathering huge amounts of chakra and even protect his jin when Naruto is off guard like how it happened with Kurama protecting Naruto from Amaterasu.



In Naruto latest mode we can see that he has a mastery over sage mode as well as his black balls. However, he still needs Kurama's cooperation to pull off Bijuu mode. I don't say that Naruto doesn't waste any chakra to use it but the truth is that most of this chakra belongs Kurama. Ashura at least could manifest his cloak on his own, or at least we've never learned that he was a jin.


I don't say that Naruto's current sage mode isn't OP, he was capable of cornering madara just for fun, but his decision to use Bijuu mode against Sasuke doesn't immediately mean that his desire to defeat " Sasuke alone" doesn't hold any basis?


I mean, can you say "I want to defeat you but yo with the chakra of others"? Many naruto fans even say that in the latest chapter Sasuke stole Naruto's chakra while we know that this chakra originates from Kurama, not from Naruto. I mean it's obvious that in the last chapter naruto did not have any chakra left either, much like Sasuke.




So my question is this: Doesn't Naruto contradict himself when he says that he wants to defeat Sasuke on his own but yet he immiediately seeks cooperation to achieve that?


As I said, I'm not compering the fact that they both use borrowed powers but rather Naruto using the help of other entities, individuals, who can think, advice and even act for themselves working basically as comrades.


I'm not against team play but seriously when you clearly talk abour a rivalry, how much impact can your words have when the match is between an individual and his borrowed powers (Sasuke) and an individual whose borrowed powes are more or less complete entities.

Can this still be considered a 1 vs 1 figth?


Please no biased opinions, I search for some serious answers :)
 
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T0bidara

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since his chakra has been fused with kurama's since the day he was born he is Naruto's power........

it's not a case of him fighting 1on1 since he cant get rid of kurama without dying anyway
 
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Zawerni

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The Tailed Beast's power is also the Jinchuriki's power.

We're almost at the end of the series and people still can't grasp this. :/
 

Byron123

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Naruto borrowed power thread #4008
Lol don't downgrade me like that, I'm not the kind of guy who will say Sasuke your fave or shit like that.
since his chakra has been fused with kurama's since the day he was born he is Naruto's power........
Yes indeed but for example when Kurama was running out of chakra, Naruto could no longer use the Bijuu mode and he had to wait, for Kurama to replenish the chakra. If this chakra was completely naruto's then shouldn't he be the who also needs to replenish it one way or another? Basically, Naruto while Kurama gathers chakra, he can wait doing nothing and yet he will be full of chakra even though he himself did not try to gather it.
 

Byron123

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Here we go again.
The Tailed Beast's power is also the Jinchuriki's power.

We're almost at the end of the series and people still can't grasp this. :/
No guys it's not like that and I explain my reasons here:
Yes indeed but for example when Kurama was running out of chakra, Naruto could no longer use the Bijuu mode and he had to wait, for Kurama to replenish the chakra. If this chakra was completely naruto's then shouldn't he be the who also needs to replenish it one way or another? Basically, Naruto while Kurama gathers chakra, he can wait doing nothing and yet he will be full of chakra even though he himself did not try to gather it.
 

T0bidara

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using the same logic can you not have a fight with Shino 1on1? since his "borrowed" power is MILLIONS of insects.......oh but I forgot Shino isn't relevant to the story anymore so he's fodder
 

Zawerni

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No guys it's not like that and I explain my reasons here:
Yes indeed but for example when Kurama was running out of chakra, Naruto could no longer use the Bijuu mode and he had to wait, for Kurama to replenish the chakra. If this chakra was completely naruto's then shouldn't he be the who also needs to replenish it one way or another? Basically, Naruto while Kurama gathers chakra, he can wait doing nothing and yet he will be full of chakra even though he himself did not try to gather it.
I don't see the issue.

Sasuke being able to absorb other's chakra to use and Naruto getting chakra from Kurama to use is the same concept.
 

Byron123

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using the same logic can you not have a fight with Shino 1on1? since his "borrowed" power is MILLIONS of insects.......oh but I forgot Shino isn't relevant to the story anymore so he's fodder
Well not exactly, Shino has to use chakra to use his insects.
Naruto on the other hand can still doing nothing and he will get loads of chakra. Sasuke has indeed borrowed powers but at least he has to gather chakra on his own and he knows that nobody will protect him other than himself. In Naruto's case, Kurama's quick reaction saved him from Amaterasu.
 

Byron123

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Sasuke took chakra from the Bijuu. Does that mean he contradicts his lone wolf mentality?
Well Sasuke never really stuck to this idea this much. I mean he even created Taka and asked Orochimaru's help. My point is that is one thing to use borrowed powers and completely other to have others do the job for you. Unless Kurama gather chakra, Naruto can't pull off Bijuu Mode on his own. If for example Kurama argues with Naruto then this lack of cooperation will need to him being incapable of using that mode, the same doesn't go for Sasuke.
 

Byron123

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I don't see the issue.

Sasuke being able to absorb other's chakra to use and Naruto getting chakra from Kurama to use is the same concept.
Yeah but my point is that Sasuke did not do this straight from the beginning of their fight. Before that, the battle was Susanoo vs BM but for Naruto to achieve BM he needs Kurama's cooperation, that's where my problem begins. How can you ask for a 1 vs 1 when you immediately seek help from your comrades? Naruto always wanted to say that he defeated Sasuke on his own, how can you say that when your defeat someone based on cooperation?
 

Zawerni

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Yeah but my point is that Sasuke did not do this straight from the beginning of their fight. Before that, the battle was Susanoo vs BM but for Naruto to achieve BM he needs Kurama's cooperation, that's where my problem begins. How can you ask for a 1 vs 1 when you immediately seek help from your comrades? Naruto always wanted to say that he defeated Sasuke on his own, how can you say that when your defeat someone based on cooperation?
Kurama and Naruto are one body. That is what I was saying before, the Bijuu's power is the Jinchuriki's power.

Sasuke's end isn't 1v1 either. Without Itachi's eyes he would be blind and without Hagoromo's power he wouldn't have been able to absorb Kurama's chakra or Chibaku Tensei the Bijuu. They are essentially "helping" him as well.
 

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Kurama and Naruto are one body. That is what I was saying before, the Bijuu's power is the Jinchuriki's power.

Sasuke's end isn't 1v1 either. Without Itachi's eyes he would be blind and without Hagoromo's power he wouldn't have been able to absorb Kurama's chakra or Chibaku Tensei the Bijuu. They are essentially "helping" him as well.
Well true but my point is that Sasuke needs to take care of himself to use these powers, if he wastes his chakra, then no one will save him or offer him any alternatives, however, in naruto's case, let's say that both Naruto and Kurama are completely drained out, then when Kurama gets some power, this power goes directly to naruto who doesn't need to do anything for the time being other than wait. Kurama does the gathering while Naruto the use, Sasuke has to do both of them.



Again I'm not against Naruto using Kurama but using him and saying that he defeated Sasuke on his own sounds at the very least funny.
 
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