Sakura is a bad role model

[Tennis Robot]

No one can every be 100% logical, the purpose is to be as logical as you can based on the situation at hand. Being objective means evaluating both sides and being able to put your principles and beliefs about the topic in perspective and recognize them as principles and beliefs without letting them over cloud your judgment. I never said I wanted to make the world any better and I never claimed to want to be a saint.

So you are putting yourself over everyone else (future generations included). There is no reason for that. You can keep making excuses for yourself, but you are ultimately the one who makes the decision to choose either what you want or what is best.

 

[salsalover64]

So you are putting yourself over everyone else (future generations included). There is no reason for that. You can keep making excuses for yourself, but you are ultimately the one who makes the decision to choose either what you want or what is best.

Actually I think it's safe to say for the most part people who value logic and objectivity strive to be as logical and objective as they can. If you choose to believe that a person is putting themselves above other people in that situation then I don't know what to tell you. It's not the first time someone has suggested I'm arrogant and quite frankly I don't care. In fact I don't see a problem with arrogance, it's only a problem if someone chooses to feel threatened by it.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Actually I think it's safe to say for the most part people who value logic and objectivity strive to be as logical and objective as they can. If you choose to believe that a person is putting themselves above other people in that situation then I don't know what to tell you. It's not the first time someone has suggested I'm arrogant and quite frankly I don't care. In fact I don't see a problem with arrogance, it's only a problem if someone chooses to feel threatened by it.

Maybe it will take losing everything for you to realize. That's what it took for me. I was just hoping that I could help you avoid that, because it really sucks. And once again, what do you know about logic? Your logic is very illogical. It is a fabrication crafted by your mind and your mind alone. You seem to think that I don't rely on my [considerable] intellect to make decisions. I have figured out how negativity can be eliminated from the world, and I have chosen to behave however I have to to ensure that it happens. Because no one enjoys negative emotions. If I know how to get rid of something that is universally detested, is it not the most logical thing for me to try to do so?

 

[salsalover64]

Maybe it will take losing everything for you to realize. That's what it took for me. I was just hoping that I could help you avoid that, because it really sucks. And once again, what do you know about logic? Your logic is very illogical. It is a fabrication crafted by your mind and your mind alone. You seem to think that I don't rely on my [considerable] intellect to make decisions. I have figured out how negativity can be eliminated from the world, and I have chosen to behave however I have to to ensure that it happens. Because no one enjoys negative emotions. If I know how to get rid of something that is universally detested, is it not the most logical thing for me to try to do so?

There's nothing anyone can do or say to me to hurt me that hasn't already been said or done. I've already explained to you how my logic is in fact logical. Logic is about identifying the stages, patterns, concepts, processes behind situations and ideas. Being able to identify the role that each aspect of an idea or situation plays in the mechanism behind and it and its over all function. I'd say based on what you've described you're confusing pragmatism with logic and really I find your objective to be idealistic.

 

[Chie]

I don't know if you can really say that for sure. We don't know enough about Sakura to fully understand her thoughts, and I don't want to believe that her infatuation with Sasuke is based solely on his appearance.

It stemmed from her rivalry with Ino. She liked him when they were around 8 years of age, because all the other girls did and Sakura herself was striving to fit in, she wanted to be like them. So, she liked him.

Also, in the manga for her confession in part one, she said that she came to love him. So, it started as a crush, and later evolved into love in her opinion.

To be honest, I don't see why a girl would love Sasuke when a) they've only spent less than a year being on a team with him, b) He shows no interest in anyone bar Naruto, and c) Naruto is there to support... but hey. Just my opinion. If Sakura wants to continue after Sasuke, she's more than welcome to do so. I just won't like her for that. I think she should have dropped it long ago.

I think we know enough about Sakura to understand her thoughts. Kishimoto wrote that he was bad with writing female characters and found it difficult. Sakura is emotional and kind at times. Her main fault is that her emotions get in the way when it counts. Also, that she let the idea of romance ruin her shinobi career slightly... if she had spent time training from the get-go, she'd be stronger than she is now. She should also have a more varied arsenal at this point as well, but she doesn't. She lacks the speed to land a hit on top tier opponents and be a genuine threat. She's just a mini-Tsunade. It's sad. She seems complex because she shows a wide range of emotion, however, this is due to Kishimoto not knowing which way to go with her and using her as a plot device to push the idea of Naruto's and Sasuke's rivalry. Her actual themes though "Women should be strong" and "Team 7 should be back together like the old days" are very simple and bland. They aren't bad and are actually nice... but, they lack complexity themselves.

And your sig.

@bold

But didn't she? When she tried to go off and kill him? Hadn't she given up on Sasuke at that moment and believed he had fallen so low to the point of no return?

And didn't Kakashi make her feel ashamed of even contemplating the act, because she shouldn't carry that burden for herself? And didn't Naruto get mad at her as well. He was the one who stirred up hope in her again if I'm not mistaken.

In retrospect, Kishimoto treated her character pretty poorly.

No, Kakashi has stated on 2 occasions after that event that Sakura feels it's her duty to "save" Sasuke and for him to come back. She hasn't given up on him.

She wanted to kill him because she felt she could preserve the old Sasuke that way and she thought Sasuke was still suffering while alive.

Yes, she felt ashamed for attempting to kill him herself given how that worked out. Lol
However, she left it to Naruto. She still wants Sasuke back, she didn't give up on that... just on the idea of doing it herself.

Yes, yes he did. Which is sad since I used to like her.

 

[Conspirator.]

I've been thinking about how Naruto characters impact people lives etc e.g people killing themselves because of character deaths. I started thinking about how people view certain characters as role models so i started thinking about sakura. Tbh i feel sorry for any females who have taken her as a role model cause all i seee is someone who's willing to be treated like shit, mentally and physically abused and yetttt still even feels a level of guilt for her 'lovers' actions its like damn kishi whats the message you're presenting with her.

Even if she does end up with sasuke its like she lost her dignity doing that i mean she's confessed her love twice almost been killed by him cried over him but he doesn't give a s**t. The fact you can make your main character, in a series which has KIDS reading as well as teenagers young adults etc, so shitty is incredible. If any females end up being killed by a partner like sasuke because sakura taught them to 'perverse' im holding kishi on manslaughter charges. No joke -_-

The funny thing is, I can actually imagine something like this happening in the real world.

 

[Tennis Robot]

There's nothing anyone can do or say to me to hurt me that hasn't already been said or done. I've already explained to you how my logic is in fact logical. Logic is about identifying the stages, patterns, concepts, processes behind situations and ideas. Being able to identify the role that each aspect of an idea or situation plays in the mechanism behind and it and its over all function. I'd say based on what you've described you're confusing pragmatism with logic and really I find your objective to be idealistic.

I think that's the point. Maybe it's because the only thing that hasn't been done to you enough is nothing. And whether I am being idealistic or not, what I intend to do is not impossible by any means. It isn't even difficult. Also, aren't you identifying things from a skewed perspective if you are thinking only about yourself? I should have stopped a long time ago though. I never expect to get through to anyone this easily, and you clearly think that you are smarter than I am. There is nothing I can do about that. It would actually be bad for me to try to do anything about it. I have said just about everything I can say without specific knowledge of your situation. It is there for you to consider if you feel like it. And you can always come to me personally if you want to discuss this further and more in-depth. I'm sorry.

It stemmed from her rivalry with Ino. She liked him when they were around 8 years of age, because all the other girls did and Sakura herself was striving to fit in, she wanted to be like them. So, she liked him.

Also, in the manga for her confession in part one, she said that she came to love him. So, it started as a crush, and later evolved into love in her opinion.

To be honest, I don't see why a girl would love Sasuke when a) they've only spent less than a year being on a team with him, b) He shows no interest in anyone bar Naruto, and c) Naruto is there to support... but hey. Just my opinion. If Sakura wants to continue after Sasuke, she's more than welcome to do so. I just won't like her for that. I think she should have dropped it long ago.

I think we know enough about Sakura to understand her thoughts. Kishimoto wrote that he was bad with writing female characters and found it difficult. Sakura is emotional and kind at times. Her main fault is that her emotions get in the way when it counts. Also, that she let the idea of romance ruin her shinobi career slightly... if she had spent time training from the get-go, she'd be stronger than she is now. She should also have a more varied arsenal at this point as well, but she doesn't. She lacks the speed to land a hit on top tier opponents and be a genuine threat. She's just a mini-Tsunade. It's sad. She seems complex because she shows a wide range of emotion, however, this is due to Kishimoto not knowing which way to go with her and using her as a plot device to push the idea of Naruto's and Sasuke's rivalry. Her actual themes though "Women should be strong" and "Team 7 should be back together like the old days" are very simple and bland. They aren't bad and are actually nice... but, they lack complexity themselves.

And your sig.

I’m glad you like it It makes me smile haha. But anyway, what I was thinking of was more like Sakura’s very, very early development. Like her interactions with her parents or anyone else she interacted with back then. Obviously it probably isn’t something we will ever know anything more about, but that still limits the extent to which we can understand her as a person. She isn’t simple enough to just be treated like a minor character, but she isn’t important enough to warrant the kind of development Naruto/Sasuke get. idk. Something about Sakura seems weird/wrong to me. She just doesn’t make sense. Maybe it’s only me though lol.

 

[salsalover64]

I think that's the point. Maybe it's because the only thing that hasn't been done to you enough is nothing. And whether I am being idealistic or not, what I intend to do is not impossible by any means. It isn't even difficult. Also, aren't you identifying things from a skewed perspective if you are thinking only about yourself? I should have stopped a long time ago though. I never expect to get through to anyone this easily, and you clearly think that you are smarter than I am. There is nothing I can do about that. It would actually be bad for me to try to do anything about it. I have said just about everything I can say without specific knowledge of your situation. It is there for you to consider if you feel like it. And you can always come to me personally if you want to discuss this further and more in-depth. I'm sorry.

Well, if it makes you feel any better I enjoyed having this discussion with you. It's actually the deepest discussion I've had with anyone on this site. Though I must say I don't see why people are always quick to assume I only think about myself. That's the mpteenth time I've heard that and to me it just seems like people are displeased because I'm not selfless enough for them and their standards.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

It stemmed from her rivalry with Ino. She liked him when they were around 8 years of age, because all the other girls did and Sakura herself was striving to fit in, she wanted to be like them. So, she liked him.

while i do think it started as crush then developed into love (like all love in naruto )
But you are mistaken here

1-sakura said she love sasuke before she know ino liked him

2-sakura did not know sasuke was popular between the girls. After she said she likes him the kids told her he was liked by many girls and sakura was surprised .

So her liking him because the other girls is wrong since she didn't know back then

 

[Tennis Robot]

while i do think it started as crush then developed into love (like all love in naruto )
But you are mistaken here

1-sakura said she love sasuke before she know ino liked him

2-sakura did not know sasuke was popular between the girls. After she said she likes him the kids told her he was liked by many girls and sakura was surprised .

So her liking him because the other girls is wrong since she didn't know back then

Why though? Why does she "love" him? Why does she still feel that way? That's what I want to understand. I don't want to think that it's only because of his physical appearance, and I find it hard believe that she held on to the idea of "I can change the bad boy" through so much.

Well, if it makes you feel any better I enjoyed having this discussion with you. It's actually the deepest discussion I've had with anyone on this site. Though I must say I don't see why people are always quick to assume I only think about myself. That's the mpteenth time I've heard that and to me it just seems like people are displeased because I'm not selfless enough for them and their standards.

I didn't even scratch the surface tbh. And I'm not displeased with you. Just disappointed in myself. I don't know why you are the way you are, so I can't formulate any real opinion about you.

 

[salsalover64]

Why though? Why does she "love" him? Why does she still feel that way? That's what I want to understand. I don't want to think that it's only because of his physical appearance, and I find it hard believe that she held on to the idea of "I can change the bad boy" through so much.



I didn't even scratch the surface tbh. And I'm not displeased with you. Just disappointed in myself. I don't know why you are the way you are, so I can't formulate any real opinion about you.

LOLOLOL I'm an enigmaaaaaaa xDDDD

 

[Tennis Robot]

LOLOLOL I'm an enigmaaaaaaa xDDDD

I just don't know your story. It would be easy if I did. It always is.

 

[salsalover64]

I just don't know your story. It would be easy if I did. It always is.

Ok,....we can try something fun in private messages. Try to guess my "character origin" story. xD you don't have to guess event by event. I'll tell you after you've guessed and tell what you got right or wrong.

 

[Chie]

while i do think it started as crush then developed into love (like all love in naruto )
But you are mistaken here

1-sakura said she love sasuke before she know ino liked him

2-sakura did not know sasuke was popular between the girls. After she said she likes him the kids told her he was liked by many girls and sakura was surprised .

So her liking him because the other girls is wrong since she didn't know back then

I understand what you mean.

However, it's still not entirely wrong.

When people wish to fit in, they hang around the specified group. Then, they pick up on their mannerisms and gradually do develop the same way of thinking, whether they realize it or not. Sasuke was popular. In schools, especially with young children, people like to be of the same opinion. Think of if Sasuke wasn't popular or a prodigy or handsome... she wouldn't like him as a kid back then.

She liked him as a child because
a) He was cute in her opinion (and everyone else's)
b) He was the most talented student in the class, so admiration was warranted
c) She was becoming like the other girls gradually, and developed the same interests.

I know that she didn't like him just because other's did. However, the way other people acted around Sasuke definitely factored into her crush on him when they were kids. At least on a subconscious level.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

^
Of course there was a reason for her to like him but it wasn't shown why .what you said is possible but its just an assumption .. i don't think much of it because its really not important .

Why though? Why does she "love" him? Why does she still feel that way? That's what I want to understand. I don't want to think that it's only because of his physical appearance, and I find it hard believe that she held on to the idea of "I can change the bad boy" through so much.

love doesn't need a reason to happen.Maybe if she only likes him not love him then she needs a reason ,but love just doesn't.

If you "love" someone because a reason then you will love another if that reason existed in him/her too.

And if that reason changed/gone you will lose affection for that person .thats why love is different with love you will still love him/her even if it hurts Even if the things you like in him/her changed you still can't let go of the person even if your mind tells you to do so.

Of course thats my opinion ,but the author Believe that love doesn't need a reason too .(it was stated through kakashi)


If you are referring at their development (i.e what sasuke and sakura had) then i guess that only your opinion if you can't see that sasuke cared about her or the bond they had i can't change your mind .

Edit:

Also when sakura said she likes sasuke .sasuke was that little innocent kid at that time ,so the "change bad boy" scenario is very unlikely .

 

[Tennis Robot]

Ok,....we can try something fun in private messages. Try to guess my "character origin" story. xD you don't have to guess event by event. I'll tell you after you've guessed and tell what you got right or wrong.

I don't know about that. Definitely not right now. I have had too many discussions of this nature today, and I have had a headache almost all day too. I'm exhausted/exasperated/dejected. It was a lot easier to spend months on end with my own thoughts than it has been trying to convey my thoughts to others. I'm inarticulate. And it's difficult to trust a random person's words.

I understand what you mean.

However, it's still not entirely wrong.

When people wish to fit in, they hang around the specified group. Then, they pick up on their mannerisms and gradually do develop the same way of thinking, whether they realize it or not. Sasuke was popular. In schools, especially with young children, people like to be of the same opinion. Think of if Sasuke wasn't a prodigy... she wouldn't like him as a kind back then.

She liked him as a child because
a) He was cute in her opinion (and everyone else's)
b) He was the most talented student in the class, so admiration was warranted
c) She was becoming like the other girls gradually, and developed the same interests.

I know that she didn't like him just because other's did. However, the way other people acted around Sasuke definitely factored into her crush on him when they were kids. At least on a subconscious level.

Sasuke has never cared about people's opinions of him. I'm pretty bad with the early Part 1 stuff, but I feel like I remember Sakura being kind of the opposite. I do remember that she was made fun of because of her forehead too. Maybe that was a part of it. But yeah idk. Sakura is quite possibly the weirdest character for me to analyze. In any media. :/ Real life included lol.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

I don't know about that. Definitely not right now. I have had too many discussions of this nature today, and I have had a headache almost all day too. I'm exhausted/exasperated/dejected. It was a lot easier to spend months on end with my own thoughts than it has been trying to convey my thoughts to others. I'm inarticulate. And it's difficult to trust a random person's words.

Are you a women?

 

[Tennis Robot]

Are you a women?

What makes you think that? And no, I am a man (singular). I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

^
Of course there was a reason for her to like him but it wasn't shown why .what you said is possible but its just an assumption .. i don't think much of it because its really not important .


love doesn't need a reason to happen.Maybe if she only likes him not love him then she needs a reason ,but love just doesn't.

If you "love" someone because a reason then you will love another if that reason existed in him/her too.

And if that reason changed/gone you will lose affection for that person .thats why love is different with love you will still love him/her even if it hurts Even if the things you like in him/her changed you still can't let go of the person even if your mind tells you to do so.

Of course thats my opinion ,but the author Believe that love doesn't need a reason too .(it was stated through kakashi)


If you are referring at their development (i.e what sasuke and sakura had) then i guess that only your opinion if you can't see that sasuke cared about her or the bond they had i can't change your mind .

Edit:

Also when sakura said she likes sasuke .sasuke was that little innocent kid at that time ,so the "change bad boy" scenario is very unlikely .

I don't think that platonic love necessarily requires a reason, but I can't really envision someone choosing a person to spend their whole life with entirely on a whim, and then stand by that decision even as they watch the person they "love" spiral into darkness. I think that it can happen fast (and it has ), but I guess I just don't know what Sakura sees herself doing with Sasuke lol. When did they have any "moments"? I honestly wouldn't know (aside from when Sasuke left). Part 1 is very blurry to me, especially the really early parts, like before the Chunin Exam fighting started.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

You downplay SS too much.
Sasuke needs to be understood.
although his actions are a bit too farfetched for a teenager...

You re right in some points.
but Sakura is fairly written.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

What makes you think that? And no, I am a man (singular). I'm sorry if that disappoints you.



I don't think that platonic love necessarily requires a reason, but I can't really envision someone choosing a person to spend their whole life with entirely on a whim, and then stand by that decision even as they watch the person they "love" spiral into darkness. I think that it can happen fast (and it has ), but I guess I just don't know what Sakura sees herself doing with Sasuke lol. When did they have any "moments"? I honestly wouldn't know (aside from when Sasuke left). Part 1 is very blurry to me, especially the really early parts, like before the Chunin Exam fighting started.

I wasn't talking about platonic love though

Well it all started in part 1 .
without part 1 the story doesn't make sense .