BM Minato vs SM Hashirama

[Conspirator.]

Lol no it isn't mathematically possible. And there no such thing as greater infinity otherwise it was never infinite to begin with.

I wasn't being completely serious about Minato's FTG being "more instant" than Tobirama's, but there actually is a concept of "greater infinities" in mathematics.

@An Awesome Senju:

You can't use Madara as an example, because he's faster than Hashirama, had his own sensing and HM combined and also has Dojutsu. HM Madara > HM Hashirama in overall CQC.

Rinnegan doesn't help if the attack is outside the field of vision, which Tobirama's attack was. Unless I am mistaken, Hashirama kept up with Madara in a CQC(so the speed difference isn't that big), and he also ran across a mountain range in a few secs when he was fleeing from PS/Kurama. That was in base mode, so he should be able to react to Minato while in SM.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

Hashirama rape stomps any Kage seen up until now

OT - Hashirama slaughters BM Minato...add BSM Naruto and Hashirama still slaughters

 

[Conspirator.]

Hashirama rape stomps any Kage seen up until now

OT - Hashirama slaughters BM Minato...add BSM Naruto and Hashirama still slaughters

@bold

Lel no. Those two stomp him together.

 

[Benjamin King]

Rikudou's Chakra canonically boosts the user's physical attributes, as seen with Naruto. Physical attributes includes physical speed, reflexes, sensory, physical strength. Madara has that Chakra flowing through him; Hashirama doesn't. Therefore, Madara's SM is miles greater than Hashirama's. And not to mention Madara has CQC previous to attaining the Chakra.

Anyway, BM Minato mid diff. With his FTG via Bunshin, spread around the battlefield, all of Hashirama's techniques fail to touch him. With TBB created and marked kunai thrown to wherever Hashirama is standing, it gets teleported and explodes.

 

[Draphsin]

Hashi spanks him.

 

[Rιver]

-Madara wasn't even looking, his back was turned to Tobirama, why bring Dojutsu into it?

-Hashirama is a sensor himself

-Hashirama kept up with Madara in CQC

Because once after that, he did use Dojutsu. HM increases base stats. Madara has better base stats than Hashirama.

Rinnegan doesn't help if the attack is outside the field of vision, which Tobirama's attack was. Unless I am mistaken, Hashirama kept up with Madara in a CQC(so the speed difference isn't that big), and he also ran across a mountain range in a few secs when he was fleeing from PS/Kurama. That was in base mode, so he should be able to react to Minato while in SM.

I'm not talking about base Madara, but HM Madara. HM Madara > HM Hashirama >= EMS Madara in CQC.

Crossing mountains is irrelevant.

No, he won't.

 

[Benjamin King]

And yeah, if Hashirama does really have comparable CQC to Madara, how did those black rods end up on his back with Madara not being physically damaged? How did Hashirama during his battle against Madara, was physically torn and more damaged than Madara?

 

[LuckyMan]

Can't Minato just whack him and crush him with Kurama tail from 40 meters? For Hashirama to have any chance against Minato the distance needs to be 200+ meters.

 

[Draphsin]

Can't Minato just whack him and crush him with Kurama tail from 40 meters?

He can use

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to tank it.

Then hashi does

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to restrain the tail & the entire avatar altogether.

For Hashirama to have any chance against Minato the distance needs to be 200+ meters.

Minato can't even touch him, bijuudamas get deflected without so much as a thought, same with kunai or anything else that minato may have in his arsenal.

 

[LuckyMan]

He can use

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to tank it.

Then hashi does

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to restrain the tail & the entire avatar altogether.



Minato can't even touch him, bijuudamas get deflected without so much as a thought, same with kunai or anything else that minato may have in his arsenal.

He already had his wood out though. In this situation he has no wood to manipulate around him.

 

[Pragmatic]

- Lol, prove that. XD
- Madara > Hashirama, pretty sure he destroyed him without his eyes. lol

In addition, Madara reacted to Tobirama, who's inferior to BASE Minato as he admitted, how does that in any way, shape or form means that Hashirama (who's inferior to that madara to begin with) would react to BM Minato who's way out of Tobirama's level? Lol

you saw when they arrived to the battlefield, right?
Hashiram's speed and reflexes are no where near base Minato's, get over it.

unless you can show us Hashirama's feats, then there is nothing to debate.
Or are you implying that Hashirama has speed and reflexes superior to 8th Gate Gai, and the Juubi's hosts? XD

You do realize Hashirama beat Madara with a 100% kyuubi w/ susanoo armor you think he cant take out a dwarf kyuubi better take another look at Hashiramas feats

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Size >>> 100% Kyuubi

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Catches any TBB

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Wooden dragon allows Hashirama to drain Bijuu chakra from a host and let him use it himself that adds on to his already famous chakra reserves

Respect the Shodai Hokage!

 

[Draphsin]

He already had his wood out though. In this situation he has no wood to manipulate around him.

He can summon a forest near-instantly. [

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] [

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]

 

[Oblivionx]

it's obvious that BM minato is superior by quite some margin...
since it has been debated many times, i'll address just one thing...
madara's reacting to tobirama and it's relation with minato...
1st: people say, madara reacted to ftg which is instant... that statement is in itself wrong and a fallacy...
nothing can react to instant... do you really think, if tobirama attacked instantly, madara or anyone could have reacted? lol then how naruto and sasuke damaged madara? they sure weren't faster than instant...

2nd: tobirama's use of ftg is ambiguous... we never saw him throwing a kunai and still people say he used ftg... he may have just shunshined there and later used ftg... also his running pose suggests it...
3rd: tobirama admitted inferiority to base minato in almost everything...
4th: madara was considerably stronger than hashirama in the form he dodged tobirama...
5th: BM enhances almost every ability and that too proportionally.... see naruto for example..
6th: doesn't that make BM minato exponentially faster than tobirama?
7th: minato battle against obito and madara actually prove it as with KCM he was able to avoid obito's further attack i.e enhanced reactions while failed to do so against madara even with SM... i think that says it all just how above BM minato is of tobirama...
minato easily outclasses hashirama in almost everything with BM..

lastly, the only argument i'm gonna see is going to be madara dodged tobirama with SM so can hashirama... it's like saying jiraya can dodge everything minato and naruto can in SM.. it's the basic skill that matters... madara was already on par with SM hashirama before sage mode at least in reactions department, his battle with him proved it many times... otherwise madara would have died in an instant while fighting with taijutsu as he did in many battles... and then he received SM, a substantial boost... and still was barely able to react to a lot slower shinobi compared to BM minato...

 

[Oblivionx]

He can use

You must be registered for see links

to tank it.

Then hashi does

You must be registered for see links

to restrain the tail & the entire avatar altogether.



Minato can't even touch him, bijuudamas get deflected without so much as a thought, same with kunai or anything else that minato may have in his arsenal.

@bold... makes me wonder who actually was said to be the fastest shinobi till 4th ninja war.... XD
till now i always thought it was the other way around... thanks for clearing it up buddy... =D :dunno:

 

[Draphsin]

@bold... makes me wonder who actually was said to be the fastest shinobi till 4th ninja war.... XD
till now i always thought it was the other way around... thanks for clearing it up buddy... =D :dunno:

Are you trying to be funny? Cause it's not working.

Who ever said that minato not being able to touch hashi = hashi is faster? Just because minato is faster doesn't mean that he can get past hashi's defenses.

That's like saying EMS sasuke is faster than V2 ay because ay can't touch him, now that's funny. Lol

 

[Pragmatic]

it's obvious that BM minato is superior by quite some margin...
since it has been debated many times, i'll address just one thing...
madara's reacting to tobirama and it's relation with minato...
1st: people say, madara reacted to ftg which is instant... that statement is in itself wrong and a fallacy...
nothing can react to instant... do you really think, if tobirama attacked instantly, madara or anyone could have reacted? lol then how naruto and sasuke damaged madara? they sure weren't faster than instant...

2nd: tobirama's use of ftg is ambiguous... we never saw him throwing a kunai and still people say he used ftg... he may have just shunshined there and later used ftg... also his running pose suggests it...
3rd: tobirama admitted inferiority to base minato in almost everything...
4th: madara was considerably stronger than hashirama in the form he dodged tobirama...
5th: BM enhances almost every ability and that too proportionally.... see naruto for example..
6th: doesn't that make BM minato exponentially faster than tobirama?
7th: minato battle against obito and madara actually prove it as with KCM he was able to avoid obito's further attack i.e enhanced reactions while failed to do so against madara even with SM... i think that says it all just how above BM minato is of tobirama...
minato easily outclasses hashirama in almost everything with BM..

lastly, the only argument i'm gonna see is going to be madara dodged tobirama with SM so can hashirama... it's like saying jiraya can dodge everything minato and naruto can in SM.. it's the basic skill that matters... madara was already on par with SM hashirama before sage mode at least in reactions department, his battle with him proved it many times... otherwise madara would have died in an instant while fighting with taijutsu as he did in many battles... and then he received SM, a substantial boost... and still was barely able to react to a lot slower shinobi compared to BM minato...

Stopped reading after you said Tobirama FTG was not instant

SM Hashirama babyshakes BM Minato

 

[Dave Stevenson]

base hashirama loses high diff however sm hashirama wins mid diff

 

[Kamui Sama]

Hashi high diff

 

[Xlad]

Minato can send his TBB and redirect it via Space Time Barrier. It could be useful for creating behind the back attacks, especially against Shinnsusenju.

 

[Minator93]

What Hashirama supporters don't understand is the workings of the Hiraishin no jutsu! I'll explain one aspect of Hiraishin that will make it perfectly clear that all of Hashirama's arsenal becomes useless against the Hiraishin no Jutsu of the Yondaime Hokage U_U

I mean I've seen the same guys who are supporting Hashirama here say Obito's Kamui negs him or Sasuke Rinneblitz his ass etc sad part however is the fact that Minato's Jikukan Ninjutsu is greater than either of those guys.

Hiraishin Escapes Everything:

Spoiler

I'll leave you with some manga scans and a thread of mine on this particular topic.

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Spoiler

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​

As seen there's nothing the Hiraishin can't escape!

Sasuke's Teleportation can't Escape anything

Spoiler

Directly to the point,

Spoiler

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Here we see Sasuke's being confined by Kaguya and it's sucking a lot of chakra from him and even after all that Sasuke was unable to use his teleportation to escape it.

Spoiler

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Meaning his teleportation doesn't have the escape properties of the Hiraishin!

Every teleportation technique is different, Hiraishin escapes all, Obito goes intangiable with Kamui whilst Sasuke's doesn't do either.

Comparison and why Hiraishin is better in this department:

Spoiler

As you saw there's absolutely nothing from which Hiraishin can't escape! Minato as seen

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, from

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. With Hiraishin Minato also saved Naruto and Sasuke who were about to be murdered by Obito who had

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grip on their faces. Even the shinju couldn't do anything against the Hiraishin[

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][

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]

Hiraishin can even escape from Mid-attack

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which makes it the most haxxed technique of all time!