[Discussion] Does Sasuke have senjutsu?

[Mr Hiru]

Obito should have been dead after losing the Ten Tails and using Rinne Tensei. The only reason he was still alive was because Black Zetsu was attached to his body keeping him alive.

There is no evidence that Obito kept some of the Bijuu chakra for himself. So unless otherwise stated, it was all given to Naruto.

Overruled.

We know that Obito had to be dead at this point:

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Naruto gave him some vital force, and then Obito could keep going

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And then Sakura strikes with the logical conclusion from Obito: He is near death.

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Deduction:

Even after BZ left Obito's body and Obito transferred the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto, Obito could use Kamui in Kaguya's dimension, something that was virtually impossible in his state after Madara's defeat.

Where was his current chakra from?

The only reasonable explanation I could offer is that he didn't completely transfer the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto... he kept some of it for his own later use.

Now, if BZ left Obito's body at some point, and you claim that Obito completely gave the Bijuu chakra to Naruto, how was Obito capable to survive before Naruto gave him vital force? Can you explain this?

There really is no need to discuss this further beyond the facts.

Sasuke only has the ability to meld Senjutsu given to him by outside sources other then his own, he has 0 training or ability on how to gather nature energy but only to use whatever is synced or given to him by others.

Juugo
Naruto

Sasuke cannot use Sage Mode.
Sasuke cannot gather Nature Energy.

I think it should be pretty clear by now.

And I still try to ask for answers to explain how do Sasuke draw Nature energy... they still are not able to do so. They only say that he use Senjutsu thanks to Rikudou Magic. Put in this way, it just sounds as asspulls... so lame.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

Overruled.

We know that Obito had to be dead at this point:

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Naruto gave him some vital force, and then Obito could keep going

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And then Sakura strikes with the logical conclusion from Obito: He is near death.

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Deduction:

Even after BZ left Obito's body and Obito transferred the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto, Obito could use Kamui in Kaguya's dimension, something that was virtually impossible in his state after Madara's defeat.

Where was his current chakra from?

The only reasonable explanation I could offer is that he didn't completely transfer the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto... he kept some of it for his own later use.

Now, if BZ left Obito's body at some point, and you claim that Obito completely gave the Bijuu chakra to Naruto, how was Obito capable to survive before Naruto gave him vital force? Can you explain this?



And I still try to ask for answers to explain how do Sasuke draw Nature energy... they still are not able to do so. They only say that he use Senjutsu thanks to Rikudou Magic. Put in this way, it just sounds as asspulls... so lame.

That is only chakra he was given like Juugo gave him to merge with his Susanao. Once it's all gone he can't get any more.

 

[Zawerni]

Overruled.

We know that Obito had to be dead at this point:

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Naruto gave him some vital force, and then Obito could keep going

You must be registered for see links

And then Sakura strikes with the logical conclusion from Obito: He is near death.

You must be registered for see links

Deduction:

Even after BZ left Obito's body and Obito transferred the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto, Obito could use Kamui in Kaguya's dimension, something that was virtually impossible in his state after Madara's defeat.

Where was his current chakra from?

The only reasonable explanation I could offer is that he didn't completely transfer the Bijuu's chakra to Naruto... he kept some of it for his own later use.

Now, if BZ left Obito's body at some point, and you claim that Obito completely gave the Bijuu chakra to Naruto, how was Obito capable to survive before Naruto gave him vital force? Can you explain this?



And I still try to ask for answers to explain how do Sasuke draw Nature energy... they still are not able to do so. They only say that he use Senjutsu thanks to Rikudou Magic. Put in this way, it just sounds as asspulls... so lame.

How was Madara still alive after losing the Ten Tails?

Going by the manga, only Uzumaki should be able to survive a Tailed Beast extraction. Senju as well I suppose, since they also have a powerful life force.
In reality Obito shouldn't have even lived to use Rinne Tensei.

The only thing I can think of is Naruto passing a bit of chakra to Obito, which allowed him to Kamui a couple times. After that he had to use Sakura as a battery to keep going.

Even if he had a tiiiny amount of the One and Eight Tails chakra, that would just mean Kakashi got that chakra which wouldn't give him senjutsu.

 

[Mr Hiru]

That is only chakra he was given like Juugo gave him to merge with his Susanao. Once it's all gone he can't get any more.

Exactly. I only gave the Moon Seal as an hypothesis, but other than that, it can't be proven to this point.

Possible? Maybe, we need more information to confirm if it is or not the case.

---

Anyways, fanboys are hopeless. Sasuke can't draw shizen energy right now. But I have proof that Sasuke "could" use something to get Senjutsu chakra, and of course, it is not related to Rikudou powers, directly.

...

Yep, the Bijuu he holds in CT. Remember that All bijuu = big source of Senjutsu chakra = Juubi.

...but it is limited. Bijuu won't mold chakra for him. When he runs out of chakra, that's all what he will get.

 

[Mr Hiru]

How was Madara still alive after losing the Ten Tails?

Going by the manga, only Uzumaki should be able to survive a Tailed Beast extraction. Senju as well I suppose, since they also have a powerful life force.
In reality Obito shouldn't have even lived to use Rinne Tensei.

The only thing I can think of is Naruto passing a bit of chakra to Obito, which allowed him to Kamui a couple times. After that he had to use Sakura as a battery to keep going.

Even if he had a tiiiny amount of the One and Eight Tails chakra, that would just mean Kakashi got that chakra which wouldn't give him senjutsu.

Naruto didn't pass chakra to Obito. He only recovered him... proof of this is what happened to Gai. Naruto only helped in the recovering process. Also, it is unlikely to pass chakra to someone which chakra networks system was completely burnt.

Anyways, Naruto never said that he passed chakra. So I just doubt it being the case, I just state what facts says: Naruto helped him recovering.

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...also, remember that Obito could create his own staff after extraction. It can't be helped but to believe that he still holds some of the TTJ power after the extraction, specially considering that he holded a Gedou Mazou's arm until death.

--- Finally, you should put special attention in the next thing after telling him that he helped him recovering...

"....but".

Also, to Sakura's words in the next chapter...

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Undoubtely, Naruto didn't transfer chakra. If it were the case, Obito would live, and no sad faces would have been necessary.

 

[Zawerni]

Naruto didn't pass chakra to Obito. He only recovered him... proof of this is what happened to Gai. Naruto only helped in the recovering process. Also, it is unlikely to pass chakra to someone which chakra networks system was completely burnt.

Anyways, Naruto never said that he passed chakra. So I just doubt it being the case, I just state what facts says: Naruto helped him recovering.

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...also, remember that Obito could create his own staff after extraction. It can't be helped but to believe that he still holds some of the TTJ power after the extraction, specially considering that he holded a Gedou Mazou's arm until death.

If Obito still had some of that power after extraction, then the same could be said for Hagoromo who also had the complete version of that staff and gudoudama floating underneath him.

Which would mean again that if Kakashi's senjutsu Raikiri was caused by this power he got from Obito, Sasuke's black Chidori was also senjutsu power from Hagoromo.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

I have the winning hand in this argument. I'll gladly quote myself to clearify this discussion and end it in one strike.



I previously said that I can't discard the possibility, but... you also can't tell it being true. Certainly, I can't say Sasuke can't use senjutsu since there is no definite evidence destroying this possibility. But also you don't hold the right to tell that Sasuke can do it always (or ever do it), because you also don't hold definite evidence of the origins of this feature (Sage's chakra is a very, VERY vague term as it is. You should say "Senjutsu chakra" OR "Rikudou chakra" in this context, and these two concepts are different. Senjutsu is composed by Physical, Spiritual and Natural Energy, while Rikudou Chakra has Indra and Ashura's chakra. A lot of fans are mixing the terms to get wrong conclusions. Sasuke don't have Senjutsu chakra as it is, he has Rikudou Powers, and of course, this is manga fact).

Now, if you deny this logic being the case... let me try a challenge for you.

You're claiming that a Black Chidori is a Senjutsu Move. Okay... answer the following questions please:

- Why doesn't Sasuke refer it as Senpou: Chidori?

> I know the answer would be in the lines of "Sasuke didn't know about Senjutsu until now", so assuming this is the case (even if I find this argument being bullshit, since he saw a lot of battles that used Senjutsu to some extent) I follow with the next question...

- Madara had as much knowledge as Sasuke before war about Senjutsu,

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and it was clearly stated that it was the first time Madara got a hold on this kind of chakra. How is that after becoming Jinchuuriki, Madara instantly started to use Senjutsu Moves (he refered it as Senpou:

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)?

---

...let me be frank. I'm quite smelling that the black thunders of both Sasuke and Kakashi are not Senjutsu, but it holds some of the essence of Rikudou. The case of this black color being the result of Rikudou Powers is fact, since Sasuke stated he was using Rikudou Powers when creating the black thunders. He did not mention the word Senjutsu nor Senpou.

But if these moves were really Senjutsu, the case of Kakashi is easy to fill, because Obito had the Juubi inside, which is in essence, Senjutsu Chakra. But the case of Sasuke is not, because Sasuke doesn't have the Gedou Mazou inside... there is no Juubi, there is no Senjutsu Chakra.



...again, there is no proof of this being the case. Stop conjectures.

--- for both of you.

I'd recommend to not create baseless claims and refer them as true.

What I said is not true or false, but possible, just as your claims.

If you're going to say that my claims are false, bring definite evidence.

If you're going to say that your claims are true, bring definite evidence.

In any case, if you lack evidence, you're doing the infamous argument ad ignorantiam fallacy. 'nuff said.

If Obito still had some of that power after extraction, then the same could be said for Hagoromo who also had the complete version of that staff and gudoudama floating underneath him.

Which would mean again that if Kakashi's senjutsu Raikiri was caused by this power he got from Obito, Sasuke's black Chidori was also senjutsu power from Hagoromo.

^

This guy saved me the trouble of basically pointing this stuff out. Kakashi using senjutsu with obitos chakra is proof that you only need the sage's chakra to use senjutsu. That fact alone solos your argument of no proof being given of it when clearly, kakashi is proof alone.

 

[Mr Hiru]

If Obito still had some of that power after extraction, then the same could be said for Hagoromo who also had the complete version of that staff and gudoudama floating underneath him.

Which would mean again that if Kakashi's senjutsu Raikiri was caused by this power he got from Obito, Sasuke's black Chidori was also senjutsu power from Hagoromo.

^

This guy saved me the trouble of basically pointing this stuff out. Kakashi using senjutsu with obitos chakra is proof that you only need the sage's chakra to use senjutsu. That fact alone solos your argument of no proof being given of it when clearly, kakashi is proof alone.

Where in the manga/databooks it is stated that the chakra of the Sage of Six Paths (Indra + Ashura) has Shizen Energy?

You're making a conjecture based only the color of a jutsu. Lacking reasoning, since you're confusing Rikudou's chakra with Senjutsu chakra, I shall remark.

So, sorry, but no. Manga only speaks about the Juubi having this kind of energy. You're just basing an argument over a color, this is way too vague... it doesn't hold as fact.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Where in the manga/databooks it is stated that the chakra of the Sage of Six Paths (Indra + Ashura) has Shizen Energy?

You're making a conjecture based only the color of a jutsu. Lacking reasoning, since you're confusing Rikudou's chakra with Senjutsu chakra, I shall remark.

So, sorry, but no. Manga only speaks about the Juubi having this kind of energy. You're just basing an argument over a color, this is way too vague... it doesn't hold as fact.

Some things are not stated, just like the fact that Madara can somehow use susanoo without his eyes, in which later was agreed upon you don't need the eyes to use susanoo, only the chakra and such. The same thing applies here, but the only difference is, Kakashi is the proof any of us need to present that senjutsu chakra comes from the sage's chakra. The Sage's chakra = black chidori for both, sasuke and kakashi. Senjutsu chidori = black as represented by the power of the curse mark on sasuke back in part 1.

So no, it is not baseless, it is something that is being logically used by not just myself, but by others who have attempted to explain it to you via manga facts.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Some things are not stated, just like the fact that Madara can somehow use susanoo without his eyes, in which later was agreed upon you don't need the eyes to use susanoo, only the chakra and such. The same thing applies here, but the only difference is, Kakashi is the proof any of us need to present that senjutsu chakra comes from the sage's chakra. The Sage's chakra = black chidori for both, sasuke and kakashi. Senjutsu chidori = black as represented by the power of the curse mark on sasuke back in part 1.

So no, it is not baseless, it is something that is being logically used by not just myself, but by others who have attempted to explain it to you via manga facts.

Distinct sources.

> Sasuke got the chakra from Rikudou, who doesn't hold any Bijuu chakra.

> Kakashi got it from Obito, who got it from Madara, who got it from Juubi (Senjutsu chakra).

--- But you're evading the important matters related to the origins of Senjutsu

Can Sasuke use Senjutsu if given Senjutsu chakra? Yes, no doubt about it. But this Senjutsu chakra should be limited. Your hypothesis is that Rikudou gave him Senjutsu chakra... valid, but not absolute truth.

Can Sasuke draw shizen energy? Can Sasuke knead senjutsu chakra? I don't know, that was the role of the Curse Mark seal, and currently, Sasuke doesn't have any seal to do this. My hypothesis is that the Moon Seal took this role temporarily, letting Sasuke do the black chidori. Valid, but not absolute truth.

See the thing? You're claiming something as a fact when it is just a possibility. Conjectures! Mine also is conjecture.

So let's not get carried away.

 

[Flaming Amaterasu]

Distinct sources.

> Sasuke got the chakra from Rikudou, who doesn't hold any Bijuu chakra.

> Kakashi got it from Obito, who got it from Madara, who got it from Juubi (Senjutsu chakra).

--- But you're evading the important matters related to the origins of Senjutsu

Can Sasuke use Senjutsu if given Senjutsu chakra? Yes, no doubt about it. But this Senjutsu chakra should be limited. Your hypothesis is that Rikudou gave him Senjutsu chakra... valid, but not absolute truth.

Can Sasuke draw shizen energy? Can Sasuke knead senjutsu chakra? I don't know, that was the role of the Curse Mark seal, and currently, Sasuke doesn't have any seal to do this. My hypothesis is that the Moon Seal took this role temporarily, letting Sasuke do the black chidori. Valid, but not absolute truth.

See the thing? You're claiming something as a fact when it is just a possibility. Conjectures! Mine also is conjecture.

So let's not get carried away.

First off, Madara got it from Hashi. So already you are incorrectly stating the sources... but I'll forgive that, I suppose, since again, it doesn't matter because the chakra alone has shown us that is all that is needed to produce senjutsu. Sasuke cannot use senjutsu mode, but he can use and utilize, senjutsu attacks as shown.

Sasuke does not need the moon seal to do any of his attacks, what do you not understand about that? Naruto and Sasuke's seals were only to seal Kaguya, nothing more and nothing less, so keep the seals out of it. There is no proof they lost any of their powers when the seals were taken from them, in fact, it was only further implied why they had them -- to seal Kaguya, since as soon as they did that, the sage took the seals from them.

So indeed, let's not get carried away with your baseless assumptions of Sasuke needing the moon seal to do this or that, when it was only needed to seal Kaguya.

 

[Zawerni]

Where in the manga/databooks it is stated that the chakra of the Sage of Six Paths (Indra + Ashura) has Shizen Energy?

You're making a conjecture based only the color of a jutsu. Lacking reasoning, since you're confusing Rikudou's chakra with Senjutsu chakra, I shall remark.

So, sorry, but no. Manga only speaks about the Juubi having this kind of energy. You're just basing an argument over a color, this is way too vague... it doesn't hold as fact.

I'm not basing this on just the color of a jutsu.. I'm basing it off your words here:

...also, remember that Obito could create his own staff after extraction. It can't be helped but to believe that he still holds some of the TTJ power after the extraction, specially considering that he holded a Gedou Mazou's arm until death.

Which I responded to with this here:

If Obito still had some of that power after extraction, then the same could be said for Hagoromo who also had the complete version of that staff and gudoudama floating underneath him.

But you skipped over that and just jumped to where I talked about the black Chidori.

Here's how it is, going by your previous post. Obito was able to manifest his staff, so that means he still has that power even after extraction. This is what you previously said. Going by that, we can look at Hagoromo and say he still has that same power as well since he has the complete version of that staff (Madara and Obito only had half) and he has gudoudama.

So if this power Obito had allowed Kakashi to use a senjutsu Raikiri, then that same power that Hagoromo had and gave to Sasuke and Naruto would allow Sasuke to use a senjutsu Chidori.

Even if it isn't clearly written in the panel "This is Sasuke's senjutsu Chidori", it's still easy to understand what it is. The two of them came to the conclusion that they needed to use senjutsu attacks on Madara. Sasuke then told Naruto to use Rikudou powers to hit Madara, and he would do the same. Meaning they were both going to use senjutsu attacks. Unless you think Sasuke was saying "Hey Naruto, senjutsu works so let's use ninjutsu" hmm

 

[Mr Hiru]

I'm not basing this on just the color of a jutsu.. I'm basing it off your words here:



Which I responded to with this here:



But you skipped over that and just jumped to where I talked about the black Chidori.

Here's how it is, going by your previous post. Obito was able to manifest his staff, so that means he still has that power even after extraction. This is what you previously said. Going by that, we can look at Hagoromo and say he still has that same power as well since he has the complete version of that staff (Madara and Obito only had half) and he has gudoudama.

So if this power Obito had allowed Kakashi to use a senjutsu Raikiri, then that same power that Hagoromo had and gave to Sasuke and Naruto would allow Sasuke to use a senjutsu Chidori.

Even if it isn't clearly written in the panel "This is Sasuke's senjutsu Chidori", it's still easy to understand what it is. The two of them came to the conclusion that they needed to use senjutsu attacks on Madara. Sasuke then told Naruto to use Rikudou powers to hit Madara, and he would do the same. Meaning they were both going to use senjutsu attacks. Unless you think Sasuke was saying "Hey Naruto, senjutsu works so let's use ninjutsu" hmm

At this point, there is only proof that says that Senjutsu chakra damages TTJ as well as Rikudou chakra. There is no proof telling that both are the same kind of chakra.

Namely...

1 + 4 = 5 but
2 + 3 = 5

does it mean that 2 = 1 or that 4 = 3? I believe not.

If Obito still had some of that power after extraction, then the same could be said for Hagoromo who also had the complete version of that staff and gudoudama floating underneath him.

You're assuming that Obito's staff and Rikudou's staff have the same origin. I claim it is not, even if it is likely. Motive: Source of power are completely different. One is the Juubi. The other is Hagoromo himself, whose TTJ powers were completely extracted after using COAT.

I don't know where did people find that Hagoromo (origin of Rikudou Chakra) = Juubi (origin of Senjutsu Chakra), that's conjecture as well.

I'm honest. You may be finding a lot of things that "seem" to be facts, but I'm just a proof guy here. I won't make claims and telling that they are facts when they are not fully proven... that's argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy!

 

[Zawerni]

At this point, there is only proof that says that Senjutsu chakra damages TTJ as well as Rikudou chakra. There is no proof telling that both are the same kind of chakra.

Namely...

1 + 4 = 5 but
2 + 3 = 5

does it mean that 2 = 1 or that 4 = 3? I believe not.



You're assuming that Obito's staff and Rikudou's staff have the same origin. I claim it is not, even if it is likely. Motive: Source of power are completely different. One is the Juubi. The other is Hagoromo himself, whose TTJ powers were completely extracted after using COAT.

I don't know where did people find that Hagoromo (origin of Rikudou Chakra) = Juubi (origin of Senjutsu Chakra), that's conjecture as well.

I'm honest. You may be finding a lot of things that "seem" to be facts, but I'm just a proof guy here. I won't make claims and telling that they are facts when they are not fully proven... that's argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy!

Well again, if the Rikudou power Sasuke was using for his Chidori wasn't senjutsu, then he would have no reason to use it since he knows it wouldn't work. The math analogy was terrible.

Obito's staff is literally one half of Hagoromo's staff.. You're telling me the two are different when they are very clearly the same. Incredible. There is nothing saying Hagoromo lost all Jinchuriki powers after splitting the Juubi. He lost the Juubi itself and its chakra sure, but so did Obito. You're saying Obito still had that power after the Juubi was completely extracted, but Hagoromo lost all that power after he completely extracted the Juubi. Once again, saying it's possible for Obito but impossible for Hagoromo and it makes no sense at all.

Even if the staffs are different, Hagoromo still has the gudoudama, which originate from the power of the Sage of the Six Paths and are composed of all 5 basic elements, Yin-Yang Release, and Six Paths Sage Chakra.
Meaning even without the Juubi he still has Sage chakra to be able to form the gudoudama.

You are so adamantly opposed to Sasuke having senjutsu chakra despite it already being shown. It's crazy.

 

[King Of Pop]

That is only chakra he was given like Juugo gave him to merge with his Susanao. Once it's all gone he can't get any more.

fanfic, nothing like this was ever stated. his chakra is rikudous chakra which he can tap in to make his attacks have senjutsu. as long he has that sen-chakra he would always be able to use it.

 

[ministerC4]

fanfic, nothing like this was ever stated. his chakra is rikudous chakra which he can tap in to make his attacks have senjutsu. as long he has that sen-chakra he would always be able to use it.

Until it runs out.Lol

 

[King Of Pop]

Distinct sources.

> Sasuke got the chakra from Rikudou, who doesn't hold any Bijuu chakra.

> Kakashi got it from Obito, who got it from Madara, who got it from Juubi (Senjutsu chakra).

--- But you're evading the important matters related to the origins of Senjutsu

Can Sasuke use Senjutsu if given Senjutsu chakra? Yes, no doubt about it. But this Senjutsu chakra should be limited. Your hypothesis is that Rikudou gave him Senjutsu chakra... valid, but not absolute truth.

Can Sasuke draw shizen energy? Can Sasuke knead senjutsu chakra? I don't know, that was the role of the Curse Mark seal, and currently, Sasuke doesn't have any seal to do this. My hypothesis is that the Moon Seal took this role temporarily, letting Sasuke do the black chidori. Valid, but not absolute truth.

See the thing? You're claiming something as a fact when it is just a possibility. Conjectures! Mine also is conjecture.

So let's not get carried away.

what are you talking about?

hagoromo while giving sasuke power still had his gudoudama floating on his back and his staff and those stuffs are only attainable when one gains to access to rikudous senjutsu which is born out as a result of the juubis chakra, so he did have the juubis chakra in him which is senjutsu chakra.

sasuke getting his chakra would mean he also got access to aspects of his senjutsu chakra which is same as kakashi getting some form of it chakra from the one obito took from madara which you yourself has acknowledged. you cant say one thing for one and then ignore it another when both are the same thing.

and you are missing the point. as long as sasuke has access to rikudous chakra he would always have access also to his senjutsu chakra and can use it as he pleases. its innate, he dosent need to draw any energy to get the chakra, he already has the chakra in him, all he has to do is access it and he has shown to do so. its is the chakra in him that made him use black chidori and not any moon seal except you want to say kakashi has moon seal as well which is obv false so you clearly wrong there.

also stop refuting whether black chidori is actually senjutsu. like i stated in my post he tells naruto to use an attack that contains senjutsu chakra, he then says he would use the six paths power too in order words he would do what he just asked naruto to do which is use an attack which contain sages chakra and he did by making his chidori black, chidori and raikiri being black means they contain senjutsu in them like sasukes curse seal chidori in part 1 its not so hard to understand.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

what are you talking about?

hagoromo while giving sasuke power still had his gudoudama floating on his back and his staff and those stuffs are only attainable when one gains to access to rikudous senjutsu which is born out as a result of the juubis chakra, so he did have the juubis chakra in him which is senjutsu chakra.

sasuke getting his chakra would mean he also got access to aspects of his senjutsu chakra which is same as kakashi getting some form of it chakra from the one obito took from madara which you yourself has acknowledged. you cant say one thing for one and then ignore it another when both are the same thing.

and you are missing the point. as long as sasuke has access to rikudous chakra he would always have access also to his senjutsu chakra and can use it as he pleases. its innate, he dosent need to draw any energy to get the chakra, he already has the chakra in him, all he has to do is access it and he has shown to do so. like i stated in my post he tells naruto to use an attack that contains senjutsu chakra, he then says he would use the six paths power too in order words he would do what he just asked naruto to do which is use an attack which contain sages chakra and he did by making his chidori black, its not so hard to understand.

Sow what's the point of your guys argument? to me Sasuke can use Senjutsu given to him by outside sources e.g Naruto / Juugo / S06P but he cannot and does not have the ability or training to gather or enter Sage Mode as seen by Naruto / Jiraiya / Kabuto and even Minato. Sasuke only has Rikudo's Chakra right. Senjutsu (Nature Energy) is limited as we've seen with Naruto as it eventually runs out, Naruto lasts like a few minutes or so before gaining his Perfect Sage Mode until he had to summon the other 2 he had gathering nature energy.

 

[King Of Pop]

Sow what's the point of your guys argument? to me Sasuke can use Senjutsu given to him by outside sources e.g Naruto / Juugo / S06P but he cannot and does not have the ability or training to gather or enter Sage Mode as seen by Naruto / Jiraiya / Kabuto and even Minato. Sasuke only has Rikudo's Chakra right. Senjutsu (Nature Energy) is limited as we've seen with Naruto as it eventually runs out, Naruto lasts like a few minutes or so before gaining his Perfect Sage Mode until he had to summon the other 2 he had gathering nature energy.

yes he cant or rather he hasnt shown the ability to gather natural energy himself and acess senjutsu through it but if given the catalyst by some other means(juugos chakra, rikudous chakra), then he can manage and use it just fine. so yes he has some form of senjutsu chakra from the chakra he got from rikudou but not sennin mode like naruto. and yh i guess i agree with your last parts

 

[Eye of the Beholder]

I already explained this in extreme detail.

He has some sort of Senjutsu Chakra... not a Sage Mode though.

Sasuke Curse Mark Senjutsu Enhance Chidori

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Kakashi SO6P Senjutsu Enhanced Raikiri

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Sasuke Current Chidori

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Without Senjutsu Lightnings Color is BLUE... unless you are Darui with personal training from the 3rd Raikage
With Senjutsu it is Black

Thread solo'd.