[Theory] The Demon

UnknownJin · Oct 16, 2014

I would also like to add ... whats all this Sharingan/Byakugan secrets? Also Madaras body secrets? ... these things have been mention in manga so many times... and still nothing have been explained

Dark Matter Thief · Oct 16, 2014

WalksInShadows said:
let me clear this: that prophecy concerned ppl who were destined to be trained by Jiraiya. Sasuke has never been a student of Jiraiya's. The only prophecy Sasuke was part of was being the young man Naruto was supposed to fight.

Take a look at Obito's words.

You must be registered for see images

Obito said that one could say he lost to Jiraiya.

Naruto > Kakashi > Minato > Jiraiya

Pertaining to the prophecy, it says that Jiraiya's pupil will bring a revolution.

Sasuke > Kakashi > Minato > Jiraiya

It'd be the same as what Obito said, but in this case the prophecy. Each person has been a pupil of the next in that line.

Rabbit Teth · Oct 17, 2014

WalksInShadows said:
let me clear this: that prophecy concerned ppl who were destined to be trained by Jiraiya. Sasuke has never been a student of Jiraiya's. The only prophecy Sasuke was part of was being the young man Naruto was supposed to fight.

You raise a good point and I should really explain why I consider Sasuke the rival Child of Prophecy. The simple answer is that you’re right and that there is only one person who fits the description of the Child of Prophecy. I do have a much more complicated answer and even if you disagree with it, I hope you at least find it interesting.

For appearances sake I should include something about the Demon in my answer so excuse me if I shoehorn in some speculation on a certain Snake…

Gamamaru, the White Snake Sage and the Prophecy

The prophecy is central to the story Naruto. It sets out Naruto as the hero of the tale and foreshadows developments that we are yet to see. The prophecy is rather simple. There’s no mistaking that Naruto is intended to be the Child of Destiny. This is a manga called Naruto after all and it wouldn’t do to have somebody else muscling in and taking his glory. Still the Prophecy is not quite as straightforward as it appears. I’ll start with the basics…

The Prophecy

The Prophecy probably originated about thousand years ago in the Narutoverse (using the calendar of the Shinju Fruit). It begins with a future witnessed by Gamamaru in a vision. We have never seen exactly what Gamamaru saw however we have received plenty of second hand accounts of the contents of the Prophecy.

Before Hagoromo split up the Bijuu, both he and the young tailed beasts were aware of the Prophecy. The prophecy may even have been one of the determining factors in the reason why Hagoromo split his portion of the Juubi chakra in the first place. The prophecy starts with the Bijuu being divided before one day being reunited with one another in the Child of Destiny. We’ve seen both the before and after of this portion of the prophecy so we can read this part of it as having been fulfilled…
Before:

You must be registered for see images

After:

You must be registered for see images

According to the Prophecy the one to unite the Bijuu will be a Blue Eyed Boy who will learn the names of the Bijuu and persuade them to lend him their chakra…
Blue Eyed Boy who’ll call their names:

You must be registered for see images

Persuade them to lend him their chakra:

You must be registered for see images

Kurama knew long before this coming together that Naruto was the Child of Destiny. We see the moment that he twigged that Naruto was not just another Jinchuuriki… Naruto’s use of the Sage’s seal / chakra

You must be registered for see images

Others too were quick to appreciate Naruto’s significance. Minato believed his son would cure the world’s ills and gave him Kurama’s chakra so that he could bring about peace:
Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Purpose of sealing Kurama in Naruto:

You must be registered for see images

Jiraiya took a little longer to figure it out. Jiraiya made his decision just before he died and left his legacy to Naruto with his dying breath:

You must be registered for see images

While Naruto is the one that the prophecy clearly envisioned bringing about a revolution, Gamamaru recognises over time that it is not as simple as just one child changing the world on his own. While watching the fight between Naruto and Pain, Gamamaru reconsiders his Prophecy and determines that both Nagato and Naruto together are in fact the Children of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Jiraiya too does not consider the Child of Destiny as simply a harbinger of Peace or Doom. For most of his life Jiraiya thinks about all his pupils as being potential Children of Prophecy....First Nagato because of his Sage’s Eyes:

You must be registered for see images

Later he comes to recognise the genius of Minato as the true Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Then finally Jiraiya comes to the conclusion that it is Naruto’s spirit and never give in attitude that makes him worthy of being the Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Burden of Destiny

Naruto takes this destiny seriously. He knows the pressure is on him to save the Ninja World. He has doubts about his own capacity to change the Ninja World for the better:

You must be registered for see images

Later as his resolve grows, he starts to take on too much responsibility on his shoulders. Naruto attempts to do too much and his power fails him:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi doesn’t just remind Naruto that the Hokage must be the one acknowledged by the people:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi also sets him straight about trying to do too much and the dangers of allowing his ego to take over:

You must be registered for see images

Because if that happener Naruto would become another Madara:

You must be registered for see images

This question of ego is important. A recurring theme of all of the bad guys is that they all try to bring about peace by doing everything themselves. Nagato starts to believe that he is God:

You must be registered for see images

Madara even developed his own warped Saviour complex where he started to call Obito Madara as though he were nothing but an extension of himself:

You must be registered for see images

Too much power in just one persons hands did crazy things to people:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto slowly begins to come to the realization that he is not an island and that he is continuing the legacy of all that have come before him. A comments that the Saviour (Minato) lives on inside Naruto:

You must be registered for see images

Neji tells Naruto that he is not only one life:

You must be registered for see images

Hinata clarifies Neji’s words and tells Naruto effectively that they are all in this together:

You must be registered for see images

Kurama even chips in, reminding Naruto he’s there and that his parents gave their lives for him:

You must be registered for see images

Before long Naruto sees the ghosts of the dead over his shoulder in every decision he makes:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is fulfilling the vision of a Hokage set out by Tsunade who is very aware of the will of her predecessors:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is not just the bearer of the will of the Shinobi Alliance and all who have come before him but he is also literally the bearer of their power. Kurama is made of the chakra produced by the Juubi consuming the souls of dead shinobi … Naruto carries their dead souls:

You must be registered for see images

As the Child of Destiny who promises to revolutionise the Ninja World, Naruto is the Bridge of Peace built on the lives of many who have come before him. This is a theme of Jiraiya’s other pupils who all see themselves as passing on a metaphorical baton from one savior to the next for the sake of the next generation…
Yahiko:

You must be registered for see images

Nagato:

You must be registered for see images

Konan:

You must be registered for see images

A Book

The Prophecy does not just concern one child. A significant part of the prophecy tells of the significance of a book Jiraiya would write…:

You must be registered for see images

That book is the Tale of the Gutsy Ninja:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is named after the hero of the tale:

You must be registered for see images

This tale is inspired by and inspired many of Jiraiya’s pupils. The never give up attitude is based off Nagato’s early idealistic outings in Akatsuki (when it was a peace movement … his own words come back to haunt him when confronted as pain):

You must be registered for see images

When Naruto reads the tale he sees a version of his father or an older version of himself:

You must be registered for see images

While the name interestingly appears to be inspired by another of Jiraiya’s pupils –Jiraiya comes up with the name while eating Ramen:

You must be registered for see images

Teuchi, aka Ramen Guy,

You must be registered for see images

…was a member of Team Jiraiya (Naruto is also a type of Ramen topping):

You must be registered for see images

All who read Jiraiya’s books (though perhaps not the Icha Icha series) :

You must be registered for see images

…and even those who are defeated by Jiraiya’s pupils seem to be won over by Jiraiya’s original teachings (nice spot TurboBlaze):

You must be registered for see images

The Other Child of Destiny

The Prophecy of the Child of Destiny has two outcomes. According to Gamamaru’s vision there is only one child who can deliver either Revolution or Destruction. However there is absolutely no reason to doubt that Naruto is going to bring about the peaceful revolution that everyone wants. Why then is there even the possibility of a Child of Destiny who will bring about Destruction?

I think that Gamamaru only has part of the picture. Gamamaru’s vision is far from clear and is subject to change (blame kishi but I think he’s developing it as a storyline). Part of the reason that Gamamaru’s Prophecy cannot see the full picture (apart from plot no jutsu) is that Gamamaru is reliant on a special orb to show him the future. I think that Gamamaru only sees the Child who can bring Revolution because he is the Animal Avatar who represents good in general. Gamamaru and his orb:

You must be registered for see images

On the flipside there is another animal with an orb, Gamamaru is one of two creatures in possession of such an artifact. The other Animal Avatar represents a very different vision of the future… the White Snake Sage:

You must be registered for see images

Where the Frogs are all honest, sincere, brave and loyal, the snakes represent the opposite of these virtues:

You must be registered for see images

I think that if Gamamaru can see Naruto in his crystal ball then the White Snake Sage can see what Sasuke can become. Both sets of creatures represents two sides in the continuing battle through the generations between Indra and Asura:

You must be registered for see images

I can already see Manga fact checkers going crazy but allow me to explain. The crystal balls are not crystal balls in the sense that a western audience might recognise them. As far as I’m aware crystal balls might not even be recognised as a thing in Japan because they are usually associated with Gypsy superstitions and parlour tricks (which are distinctly western). The object that Gamamaru uses to divine the future (the fancy word for coming up with a prophecy) is specific to Japanese legends about gems belonging to dragons. These are variations on the same source material that has given you the eponymous Dragonballs of Dragonball and Dragonball Z:

You must be registered for see images

The orbs that rest on Gamamaru’s head and the White Snake Sage’s head are religious artifacts that are often shown in the possession of dragons and those who have taken these gems from dragons (usually Buddhas). For example you will see one such orb in the hands of the statue of Kannon outside the main shrine in Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

Here is a representation of a Buddha carrying the same object:

You must be registered for see images

There are many legends that surround these orbs. Often they are considered as having special powers like the ability to grant wishes (Dragonball Z). In Naruto they possess the power to see into the future and to keep watch (usually over Naruto):

You must be registered for see images

One very particular legend that ties into the rest of the broader arc of this theory is a story about Garuda. Garuda is said to have stolen one of these dragonballs known as Nyoi Hōju, Hōju-no-Tama (Hōju for short) or Cintāmaṇi (Wish Fulfilling Gems) from a Naga:

You must be registered for see images

The Naga in question is often portrayed as a Chinese Dragon called Makara. The stories about Garuda were mixed up a lot as they moved across the continent. The story of Garuda travelled from India to China and picked up the imagery of Makara (a specifically Chinese Dragon) along the way to Japan. You may not know who or what Makara is but you will recognise his form because he is the inspiration behind Hashirama’s Wood Dragon:

You must be registered for see images

Here’s a real world carving of Makara:

You must be registered for see images

This Wooden Dragon is part of the imagery surrounding the story of Garuda. Garuda is often portrayed as devouring Makara over wooden doorways in religious shrines across Asia (called Kirtimukha):

You must be registered for see images

Makara is a sea serpent who mixes the trunk of an Elephant, the body of a Crocodile and the tail feathers of a peacock. He lives under the sea in a special palace known as Ryūgū-jō where he guards these special jewels that do all manner of magics but are mostly considered to control the tides.

In Japan the Makara is often replaced with a Dragon God or Ryūjin, who takes the form of a man but has the tail of a dragon (Orochimaru similarities abound):

You must be registered for see images

The Nyoi Hōju often appears alongside sea serpents:

You must be registered for see images

…and even Fox spirits (the White Fox Inari):

You must be registered for see images

The Imagery of Garuda with one such dragonball and the two opposing animal avatars being in possession of such artifacts of divination make me think that while Gamamaru can make out Naruto within the wider Prophecy, the White Snake Sage and Orochimaru can make out the competing vision of the Child of Destruction … Sasuke.

You must be registered for see images

UnknownJin · Oct 18, 2014

Rabbit Teth said:
You raise a good point and I should really explain why I consider Sasuke the rival Child of Prophecy. The simple answer is that you’re right and that there is only one person who fits the description of the Child of Prophecy. I do have a much more complicated answer and even if you disagree with it, I hope you at least find it interesting.

For appearances sake I should include something about the Demon in my answer so excuse me if I shoehorn in some speculation on a certain Snake…

Gamamaru, the White Snake Sage and the Prophecy

The prophecy is central to the story Naruto. It sets out Naruto as the hero of the tale and foreshadows developments that we are yet to see. The prophecy is rather simple. There’s no mistaking that Naruto is intended to be the Child of Destiny. This is a manga called Naruto after all and it wouldn’t do to have somebody else muscling in and taking his glory. Still the Prophecy is not quite as straightforward as it appears. I’ll start with the basics…

The Prophecy

The Prophecy probably originated about thousand years ago in the Narutoverse (using the calendar of the Shinju Fruit). It begins with a future witnessed by Gamamaru in a vision. We have never seen exactly what Gamamaru saw however we have received plenty of second hand accounts of the contents of the Prophecy.

Before Hagoromo split up the Bijuu, both he and the young tailed beasts were aware of the Prophecy. The prophecy may even have been one of the determining factors in the reason why Hagoromo split his portion of the Juubi chakra in the first place. The prophecy starts with the Bijuu being divided before one day being reunited with one another in the Child of Destiny. We’ve seen both the before and after of this portion of the prophecy so we can read this part of it as having been fulfilled…
Before:

You must be registered for see images

After:

You must be registered for see images

According to the Prophecy the one to unite the Bijuu will be a Blue Eyed Boy who will learn the names of the Bijuu and persuade them to lend him their chakra…
Blue Eyed Boy who’ll call their names:

You must be registered for see images

Persuade them to lend him their chakra:

You must be registered for see images

Kurama knew long before this coming together that Naruto was the Child of Destiny. We see the moment that he twigged that Naruto was not just another Jinchuuriki… Naruto’s use of the Sage’s seal / chakra

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Others too were quick to appreciate Naruto’s significance. Minato believed his son would cure the world’s ills and gave him Kurama’s chakra so that he could bring about peace:
Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Purpose of sealing Kurama in Naruto:

You must be registered for see images

Jiraiya took a little longer to figure it out. Jiraiya made his decision just before he died and left his legacy to Naruto with his dying breath:

You must be registered for see images

While Naruto is the one that the prophecy clearly envisioned bringing about a revolution, Gamamaru recognises over time that it is not as simple as just one child changing the world on his own. While watching the fight between Naruto and Pain, Gamamaru reconsiders his Prophecy and determines that both Nagato and Naruto together are in fact the Children of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Jiraiya too does not consider the Child of Destiny as simply a harbinger of Peace or Doom. For most of his life Jiraiya thinks about all his pupils as being potential Children of Prophecy....First Nagato because of his Sage’s Eyes:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Later he comes to recognise the genius of Minato as the true Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Then finally Jiraiya comes to the conclusion that it is Naruto’s spirit and never give in attitude that makes him worthy of being the Child of Destiny:

You must be registered for see images

Burden of Destiny

Naruto takes this destiny seriously. He knows the pressure is on him to save the Ninja World. He has doubts about his own capacity to change the Ninja World for the better:

You must be registered for see images

Later as his resolve grows, he starts to take on too much responsibility on his shoulders. Naruto attempts to do too much and his power fails him:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Itachi doesn’t just remind Naruto that the Hokage must be the one acknowledged by the people:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi also sets him straight about trying to do too much and the dangers of allowing his ego to take over:

You must be registered for see images

Because if that happener Naruto would become another Madara:

You must be registered for see images

This question of ego is important. A recurring theme of all of the bad guys is that they all try to bring about peace by doing everything themselves. Nagato starts to believe that he is God:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara even developed his own warped Saviour complex where he started to call Obito Madara as though he were nothing but an extension of himself:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Too much power in just one persons hands did crazy things to people:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto slowly begins to come to the realization that he is not an island and that he is continuing the legacy of all that have come before him. A comments that the Saviour (Minato) lives on inside Naruto:

You must be registered for see images

Neji tells Naruto that he is not only one life:

You must be registered for see images

Hinata clarifies Neji’s words and tells Naruto effectively that they are all in this together:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Kurama even chips in, reminding Naruto he’s there and that his parents gave their lives for him:

You must be registered for see images

Before long Naruto sees the ghosts of the dead over his shoulder in every decision he makes:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is fulfilling the vision of a Hokage set out by Tsunade who is very aware of the will of her predecessors:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is not just the bearer of the will of the Shinobi Alliance and all who have come before him but he is also literally the bearer of their power. Kurama is made of the chakra produced by the Juubi consuming the souls of dead shinobi … Naruto carries their dead souls:

You must be registered for see images

As the Child of Destiny who promises to revolutionise the Ninja World, Naruto is the Bridge of Peace built on the lives of many who have come before him. This is a theme of Jiraiya’s other pupils who all see themselves as passing on a metaphorical baton from one savior to the next for the sake of the next generation…
Yahiko:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Nagato:

You must be registered for see images

Konan:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

A Book

The Prophecy does not just concern one child. A significant part of the prophecy tells of the significance of a book Jiraiya would write…:

You must be registered for see images

That book is the Tale of the Gutsy Ninja:

You must be registered for see images

Naruto is named after the hero of the tale:

You must be registered for see images

This tale is inspired by and inspired many of Jiraiya’s pupils. The never give up attitude is based off Nagato’s early idealistic outings in Akatsuki (when it was a peace movement … his own words come back to haunt him when confronted as pain):

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

When Naruto reads the tale he sees a version of his father or an older version of himself:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

While the name interestingly appears to be inspired by another of Jiraiya’s pupils –Jiraiya comes up with the name while eating Ramen:

You must be registered for see images

Teuchi, aka Ramen Guy,

You must be registered for see images

…was a member of Team Jiraiya (Naruto is also a type of Ramen topping):

You must be registered for see images

All who read Jiraiya’s books (though perhaps not the Icha Icha series) :

You must be registered for see images

…and even those who are defeated by Jiraiya’s pupils seem to be won over by Jiraiya’s original teachings (nice spot TurboBlaze):

You must be registered for see images

The Other Child of Destiny

The Prophecy of the Child of Destiny has two outcomes. According to Gamamaru’s vision there is only one child who can deliver either Revolution or Destruction. However there is absolutely no reason to doubt that Naruto is going to bring about the peaceful revolution that everyone wants. Why then is there even the possibility of a Child of Destiny who will bring about Destruction?

I think that Gamamaru only has part of the picture. Gamamaru’s vision is far from clear and is subject to change (blame kishi but I think he’s developing it as a storyline). Part of the reason that Gamamaru’s Prophecy cannot see the full picture (apart from plot no jutsu) is that Gamamaru is reliant on a special orb to show him the future. I think that Gamamaru only sees the Child who can bring Revolution because he is the Animal Avatar who represents good in general. Gamamaru and his orb:

You must be registered for see images

On the flipside there is another animal with an orb, Gamamaru is one of two creatures in possession of such an artifact. The other Animal Avatar represents a very different vision of the future… the White Snake Sage:

You must be registered for see images

Where the Frogs are all honest, sincere, brave and loyal, the snakes represent the opposite of these virtues:

You must be registered for see images

I think that if Gamamaru can see Naruto in his crystal ball then the White Snake Sage can see what Sasuke can become. Both sets of creatures represents two sides in the continuing battle through the generations between Indra and Asura:

You must be registered for see images

I can already see Manga fact checkers going crazy but allow me to explain. The crystal balls are not crystal balls in the sense that a western audience might recognise them. As far as I’m aware crystal balls might not even be recognised as a thing in Japan because they are usually associated with Gypsy superstitions and parlour tricks (which are distinctly western). The object that Gamamaru uses to divine the future (the fancy word for coming up with a prophecy) is specific to Japanese legends about gems belonging to dragons. These are variations on the same source material that has given you the eponymous Dragonballs of Dragonball and Dragonball Z:

You must be registered for see images

The orbs that rest on Gamamaru’s head and the White Snake Sage’s head are religious artifacts that are often shown in the possession of dragons and those who have taken these gems from dragons (usually Buddhas). For example you will see one such orb in the hands of the statue of Kannon outside the main shrine in Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

Here is a representation of a Buddha carrying the same object:

You must be registered for see images

There are many legends that surround these orbs. Often they are considered as having special powers like the ability to grant wishes (Dragonball Z). In Naruto they possess the power to see into the future and to keep watch (usually over Naruto):

You must be registered for see images

One very particular legend that ties into the rest of the broader arc of this theory is a story about Garuda. Garuda is said to have stolen one of these dragonballs known as Nyoi Hōju, Hōju-no-Tama (Hōju for short) or Cintāmaṇi (Wish Fulfilling Gems) from a Naga:

You must be registered for see images

The Naga in question is often portrayed as a Chinese Dragon called Makara. The stories about Garuda were mixed up a lot as they moved across the continent. The story of Garuda travelled from India to China and picked up the imagery of Makara (a specifically Chinese Dragon) along the way to Japan. You may not know who or what Makara is but you will recognise his form because he is the inspiration behind Hashirama’s Wood Dragon:

You must be registered for see images

Here’s a real world carving of Makara:

You must be registered for see images

This Wooden Dragon is part of the imagery surrounding the story of Garuda. Garuda is often portrayed as devouring Makara over wooden doorways in religious shrines across Asia (called Kirtimukha):

You must be registered for see images

Makara is a sea serpent who mixes the trunk of an Elephant, the body of a Crocodile and the tail feathers of a peacock. He lives under the sea in a special palace known as Ryūgū-jō where he guards these special jewels that do all manner of magics but are mostly considered to control the tides.

In Japan the Makara is often replaced with a Dragon God or Ryūjin, who takes the form of a man but has the tail of a dragon (Orochimaru similarities abound):

You must be registered for see images

The Nyoi Hōju often appears alongside sea serpents:

You must be registered for see images

…and even Fox spirits (the White Fox Inari):

You must be registered for see images

The Imagery of Garuda with one such dragonball and the two opposing animal avatars being in possession of such artifacts of divination make me think that while Gamamaru can make out Naruto within the wider Prophecy, the White Snake Sage and Orochimaru can make out the competing vision of the Child of Destruction … Sasuke.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

good read man... amazing... but we will never found out what was in crystal ball of great white snake, ****ing shit...

NewMaster7 · Oct 18, 2014

Rabbit Teth said:
In the prophecy of Gamamaru, the destined would lead the world either to revolution or destruction. Sasuke and Naruto currently share the legacy of the sage but it seems pretty clear from the outside which child of destiny corresponds to which outcome. Sasuke might believe that he is the one to overturn the morally bankrupt system of the ninja nations but his medicine is not the cure. Sasuke’s solution is leading him down exactly the same path as the succession of villains before him. Sasuke’s vision has been warped from the start and if it is allowed to take root then it could spell the disaster foreseen in the prophecy. Sasuke without realizing it, is fulfilling the dream of the Demon to find a new vessel.

In this theory I’m goint to expand on some ideas I’ve developed elsewhere. Despite writing lots of theories in the past this is strangely the first one I have ever written on Sasuke. Now that we are at the Valley of the End, I thought I’d put down how Dr Snakes is on his way to becoming the Darkness (English anagrams… really Kishi? … I blame the translators). This is a mix of old ideas and new, in case any of it is accurate, be warned of potential spoilers.

The Need for Change

Madara and Hashirama were the revolutionaries of their day. Together they built a dream that was realized in the Hidden Leaf. It all started with skimming rocks to the other side of the river … at the Valley of the End… which is where we find the protagonists now ready to fight with small planetoids. We all know what Naruto goals are but Sasuke’s are much more complex. He thinks that he has found a new solution to end the cycle of violence and hatred. But before he can realise his dream he believes that it is necessary to kill both the Hokages that have presided over the corrupt old system and the Bijuu whose chakra has wrought such destruction over the ages.

You can hardly blame Sasuke for thinking that the old system was broken and needed replacing. Through his travels Sasuke has uncovered some dubious activities sanctioned by the old guard that has led to his own personal tragedy. Sasuke hasn’t fogiven Hiruzen for sanctioning the massacre of his clan:

You must be registered for see images

…and the stain on his brother’s reputation:

You must be registered for see images

While the Bijuu have long been regarded as a natural disaster striking in times when hatred has gone unchecked:

You must be registered for see images

… in turn causing war between the nations:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke’s vision of what it takes to be a good Hokage is a natural progression of the systems attempted by those who’ve gone before him. Hashirama and Madara together overturned the order of their day to set up the Hidden Village system of governance. Before their revolution there was endless war between the ninja tribes:

You must be registered for see images

… the Bijuu roamed the wastes as natural disasters waiting to wreak havoc:

You must be registered for see images

and few ninja lived to old age as children were sent to fight battles on behalf of their clans:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama and Madara brought order to this chaotic world. They organised tribes into the first Hidden Village and when others saw its success they followed this model:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But the Hidden Villages were ill equipped to tackle the recurring problem of the Bijuu. Hashirama with his Mokuton was able to capture these beasts easily enough but other nations envied this power and Konoha was in no position to store the collection of malevolent chakra. Hashirama resolved to donate for free (though his brother insisted on a price) bijuu to each of the other Hidden Villages who had not been able to capture one of their own:
Gokage Conference

You must be registered for see images

This balance of power was a progression of the Sage’s solution, which had been to simply scatter the beasts across the lands and hope that they didn’t cause too much trouble:
Hagoromo

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama

You must be registered for see images

While a Balance of Power was a workable solution it did not account for forces that did not want peace. Black Zetsu and his various allies and vassals over the years attempted to undermine the uneasy truce to write a history of violence and hatred in order that his mother (not Kaguya although she was part of it) could be reawakened:

You must be registered for see images

Indra was the first succumb to BZ’s machinations. A simple adjustment to the Naka Shrine tablet and both Indra and his heirs, the Uchiha clan, devoted themselves to war and Ninjutsu (a martial art rather than one of peace and self defense like Ninshuu):

You must be registered for see images

Hashirama’s solution did not last. Black Zetsu through his minions set about unstitching the uneasy truces established through Hashirama’s hard work. First Iwa:

You must be registered for see images

then Kiri:

You must be registered for see images

Kumo:

You must be registered for see images

and Suna:

You must be registered for see images

…all instigated and fell prey to various plots to breach the peace.

Konoha was not entirely innocent in these wars either. Behind the scenes shady organisations took root and spread corrupted ideals. One plot between the Foundation and Hanzo is what destablised Amegakure and turned Akatsuki from a peace movement under Yahiko into one devoted to establishing a tyranny under Pain. Pain abandoned all hope of peaceful coexistence and set about collecting the Bijuu in order to start a reign of terror that might beat the Hidden Villages into submission and reliance on Akatsuki’s protection:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke’s revolution continues a fine tradition of attempts to fix the Ninja World born in blood. Kaguya was the first, her tyranny was the result of an attempt to bring peace, but Sasuke will probably be the Last:

You must be registered for see images

Clean Slate

Sasuke started off with two ambitions … to revive his clan and to kill a certain man:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke believed that when he achieved those ambitions he might be able to start afresh. Time passed and he killed that certain man:

You must be registered for see images

His dream of reviving his clan warped into one of cleansing Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

Madara shared much the same vision as Sasuke. Madara turned his pain into the Moon’s Eye Plan in which all would be put into an endless perfect dream, cleansed of what he considered evil chakra:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke believes that with the Bijuu eliminated the world will have nothing to fight over and that the danger of the Juubi’s rebirth might end once and for all:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

…but Sasuke doesn’t feel it is enough to just eliminate the Bijuu, Sasuke also considers it necessary to wipe out the current generation of Hokage. Given how complicit the Kage have been in activities like the massacre of his own clan this is understandable. :

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke more than anything wants a fresh start:

You must be registered for see images

There is a certain logic to Sasuke’s new ambition. By taking on the world’s darkness the Ninja Nations would indeed likely unite against him. After all Madara’s plan inspired the Hidden Villages to come together:

You must be registered for see images

What Sasuke doesn’t account for is that he is likely the latest in a long line of stooges, attempting to reinvent the wheel by bringing peace through questionable activities that only serve to perpetuate the cycle of hatred, create the conditions necessary for the revival of the Demon and could result in the prophesied destruction.

Empty Vessel

Sasuke’s potential has been evident to all from a very young age. Sasuke was destined for greatness, not just as a member of a genius clan but as the host to Indra. Unfortunately for Sasuke, his potential has attracted predators like flies to shit. These predators recognized that Sasuke could surpass Itachi, surpass Nagato and even surpass Madara:
Itachi

You must be registered for see images

Nagato

You must be registered for see images

Madara

You must be registered for see images

All of these figures and others formed a line of stooges for the plots of others.
Indra came first:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi massacred his own clan:

You must be registered for see images

…but he only did so under orders from Danzo and in the belief that he could rescue his brother:

You must be registered for see images

Danzo sabotaged efforts to peacefully prevent a revolt by the Uchiha

You must be registered for see images

...before ordering and partaking in their elimination:

You must be registered for see images

He was also involved in the corruption of Nagato:

You must be registered for see images

… but Danzo was one of Orochimaru’s guinea pigs:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Nagato turned Akatsuki into a terrorist outfit with the goal of capturing the Bijuu:

You must be registered for see images

…but Nagato too had been targeted at a young age to bear the Rinnegan until Madara could be revived before a joint (?) operation led to him submitting to Tobi:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Obito set in motion the chain of events that led to the Uchiha massacre (the attack of the nine tailed fox), helped Itachi and Danzo kill his own clan and controlled Akatsuki from the shadows:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

…but he too was the victim of a conspiracy to corrupt him to another’s will:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Madara believed that he had orchestrated all of the above by leaving his will to ready the world for his Moon’s Eye Plan:

You must be registered for see images

… but even Madara was deluded into serving another’s plans:

You must be registered for see images

Even Kaguya was not altogether there and seems to have undergone a sudden unexplained character change in mid life that Hagoromo is puzzled by:

You must be registered for see images

Behind all of them there is the whisper of an as yet unrevealed big bad…the Demon.

The Demon

A title keeps on popping up again and again to describe certain characters who possess unnatural abilities. The moniker, the Devil or Demon, attaches itself to a very select group of individuals who appear to lose their souls. The first such person to be given this mantle is Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

After Hagoromo splits his mother / the Juubi’s chakra, this name is inherited by Kurama… the Nine Tailed Demon Fox

You must be registered for see images

Many years later the mantle is taken on by Zabuza:

You must be registered for see images

and two of his prodigies:
Mangetsu

You must be registered for see images

…and Suigetsu

You must be registered for see images

There is very little to connect these figures, one of them is not even human. Nonetheless I suspect that the name reflects their inheritance of a certain chakra that belongs to the original bad guy… the Demon himself.

Mangetsu and Suigetsu both share the name the Second Coming of the Demon as pupils of Zabuza whose trademark was his Demon Cloak which we have seen twice (I’m hoping Suigetsu has the technique as well)…
On the Great Naruto Bridge

You must be registered for see images

…and during this most recent war:

You must be registered for see images

This chakra cloak bears striking resemblance to what appears to have sent Juugo’s clan insane near Ryuchido (where the snakes live):

You must be registered for see images

It also has the trademark triple spiral of a shrine dedicated to who I assume to be Kaguya (Kaguya had three eyes, had the same long hair, collected souls like the masks in flames under the hair through IT…):

You must be registered for see images

It appears that Zabuza, Suigetsu, Mangetsu and Kaguya might all be connected to the Demon and the Demon to the Snakes. Zabuza and Mangetsu ended up part of Kabuto's Edo Army while Suigetsu was a member of Team Hebi (Snake) and was one of Orochimaru's guinea pigs.

Kaguya too has a connection to the snakes albeit a very loose one. When Sasuke and Itachi fall under Kabuto’s Snake Genjutsu they both witness a vision of death and adopt a distinctive pose:
Orochimaru's Vision of Death genjutsu:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi and Sasuke under the effects of Kabuto

You must be registered for see images

This is the same pose that Kaguya strikes in a couple of panels.
About to destroy the world – Kekkai Moura

You must be registered for see images

Raining Gudoudama on warring / worshipping tribal ninjas (not so holy power):

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya’s Tenpenchii

You must be registered for see images

The third connection is one between Orochimaru and Kaguya that involves the behavior of White Zetsu. White Zetsu are the souls of those captured by Infinite Tsukiyomi in the past. It is striking how even though White Zetsu have been modified to be like Hashirama, they still behave in the same way as snakes in Orochimaru’s personal dimension where he performs his Transmigration Ritual:
White Zetsu

You must be registered for see images

Snakes

You must be registered for see images

When Obito is transforming into the Juubi Jinchuuriki it is even remarked how his body (in particular his White Zetsu half) takes on the appearance of a Snake:

You must be registered for see images

The fourth connection is the between Orochimaru and Kurama. Kurama is described as the Embodiment of Hatred. He clearly inherited some of the Demon despite Hagoromo’s best efforts:

You must be registered for see images

Karin, whose main skill has always been as a sensor, remarks on how similar the chakra of the Kyuubi is to somebody else:

You must be registered for see images

While Karin could be talking about anybody (though her frame of reference is pretty small)... I’m going to go ahead and speculate that she meant Orochimaru. Notice how similar Orochimaru’s cursed seal is to the technique used by BZ to revive Kaguya and how similar both of them are to the chakra of the Nine Tailed Demon Fox Kurama…
Orochimaru:

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

Kurama:

You must be registered for see images

When Naruto engages in a battle of wills with Kurama, you even get to see the souls that Kurama still has trapped within him from when he was part of the Juubi / the Demon Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

Have you ever noticed how Kurama and Orochimaru have similar eyes:
Kurama

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru

You must be registered for see images

…and when Orochimaru tempts his victims with his chakra it mirrors how Kurama has tempted Naruto over the years:
Orochimaru tempting Sasuke (keep track of the victim's left eye):

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Kurama tempting Naruto (…kuku):

You must be registered for see images

The spread of malice is also seen in how Kabuto is slowly taken over by Orochimaru's chakra:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Kurama’s hatred has been overcome by Naruto but he still has the Demon’s venom inside him. Naruto almost gave into this chakra once but he was rescued before it could take over:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

…and again when he attempted to tame the Nine Tails under Killer B’s tutelage:

You must be registered for see images

Eventually, as Hagoromo puts it, Naruto was able to filter out the Demon’s venom and befriend the Embodiment of Hatred:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Temptation of Sasuke

Itachi was a little too successful in inspiring hatred in his brother. He had hoped that this hatred would make little Sasuke strong:

You must be registered for see images

While Sasuke did indeed become more than able to cling to life, he was all too ready to embrace the darkness:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I suspect that the chain of events that led to the Uchiha Massacre were all orchestrated to create the conditions for a child to submit to the Demon. We have seen Orochimaru engineer countless tragedies that have ensnared the young and the gifted in his coils. Orochimaru has no sentimentality when it comes to dealing with war orphans and yet he has amassed many lost souls. Maybe he just has a special place in his heart for them:

You must be registered for see images

Typically, Orochimaru’s corruption follows a pattern. First a clan spirals into destruction without any clear explanation…Karin:

You must be registered for see images

The clan gets violent, consumed by hate… Juugo

You must be registered for see images

Next everyone dies and Orochimaru arrives to rescue the only surviving child … Kimimaro

You must be registered for see images

Then Orochimaru approaches the child and offers them power that they cannot hope to achieve otherwise:

You must be registered for see images

Eventually the child is sent to kill the one closest to them in order to break their will… Kabuto:

You must be registered for see images

Finally the child submits, bargaining away not just their body but their soul as well:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke is not ready for the Demon until he had broken all bonds with the world and he has killed his closest friend:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke has taken time to build his resolve to commit what he believes will grant him the power to undo the evil of the world - cutting his bonds with Naruto before he intends to kill him:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke thinks that this final step will free him from the past:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Unfortunately this is exactly what Orochimaru has been waiting for:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru’s plans for Sasuke never required the Cursed Seal… they just needed Sasuke to embrace the Darkness:

You must be registered for see images

By having Sasuke break his bonds once and for all (something he couldn’t do last time they met at the Valley of the End) Orochimaru can obtain the blank canvas that he can dye to suit his needs:
Blank Canvass

You must be registered for see images

Dye

You must be registered for see images

If Sasuke kills the Hokage then he will be fulfilling Orochimaru's goal of triggering Ninja War unlike any before it:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke’s “revolution” is not the path to peace in the Ninja World, it is the potential dawning of its destruction:

You must be registered for see images

It is not a clean slate, it is the emptying of a vessel in anticipation of the arrival of the true Demon, the original Darkness.

You must be registered for see images

Beautiful ....but only 3 chps left.

Not enough to have this come true

Rabbit Teth · Oct 19, 2014

NewMaster7 said:
Beautiful ....but only 3 chps left.

Not enough to have this come true

Thanks … and you’re right that it couldn’t possibly come true in three chapters but then I don’t think that Naruto is ending for good in three chapters. This is the end of the Shippuden run. Essentially this is just the end of part 2. Part 1 ended in much the same way, with a battle at the Valley of the End followed by an extended break. The best I can hope for is that we get a teaser of what’s to come.

Before the first timeskip we got to meet Black Zetsu for the very first time.

You must be registered for see images

A lot of the details that we’re getting about the Last Movie makes me think that we will get to see what happened to Kaguya. I think that the Gedo Mazo is Hagoromo’s body (in case anyone hadn’t noticed it has the same beard as Hagoromo only cut short – it is not the shell/body of the original Juubi, Kaguya…a woman). That would mean that Kaguya’s shell is still contained within the Moon (the subject of the Last involves the Moon). There’s still a lot of story to tell about what happened to Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

about Hagoromo and Hamura

You must be registered for see images

… and Indra and Asura.

You must be registered for see images

Three chapters isn’t enough to cover any of the material in this theory but then again three chapters is hardly enough time to see everyone released from Mugen Tsukuyomi. I think there’s more to come and that that’s what the big announcement regarding a New Era Project will be about … I could be wrong but I’ll carry on until the theory gets proven wrong.

Next up I'll try and answer Dragonor's points … It took a while to find the panels I needed to respond, sorry for the delay.

ROHAN · Oct 19, 2014

I am very excited for the next one. Who else ?

UnknownJin · Oct 19, 2014

Dragonor said:
I am very excited for the next one. Who else ?

ofc man... cant wait what will happen next, im rly ****ing disappointed man that manga is ending in few chapters... This is best manga ever, and i doubt that there will be another manga like this... this rly gave me strenght in life and i learned a new things... i just wish i can keep that word just like ma ***** Naruto... There is also one more manga out there, its called Immortal Regis- (Regis-King) if u read it... beautifull girls ( i love anime girls) u should check it out.. but when i was reading there were only 20 chapters,im not sure if they released more.. once again im rly grateful for this manga. I just wish there is more to story..for example -Rabbit Teth theories.

UnknownJin · Oct 19, 2014

Rabbit Teth said:
Thanks … and you’re right that it couldn’t possibly come true in three chapters but then I don’t think that Naruto is ending for good in three chapters. This is the end of the Shippuden run. Essentially this is just the end of part 2. Part 1 ended in much the same way, with a battle at the Valley of the End followed by an extended break. The best I can hope for is that we get a teaser of what’s to come.

Before the first timeskip we got to meet Black Zetsu for the very first time.

You must be registered for see images

A lot of the details that we’re getting about the Last Movie makes me think that we will get to see what happened to Kaguya. I think that the Gedo Mazo is Hagoromo’s body (in case anyone hadn’t noticed it has the same beard as Hagoromo only cut short – it is not the shell/body of the original Juubi, Kaguya…a woman). That would mean that Kaguya’s shell is still contained within the Moon (the subject of the Last involves the Moon). There’s still a lot of story to tell about what happened to Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

about Hagoromo and Hamura

You must be registered for see images

… and Indra and Asura.

You must be registered for see images

Three chapters isn’t enough to cover any of the material in this theory but then again three chapters is hardly enough time to see everyone released from Mugen Tsukuyomi. I think there’s more to come and that that’s what the big announcement regarding a New Era Project will be about … I could be wrong but I’ll carry on until the theory gets proven wrong.

Next up I'll try and answer Dragonor's points … It took a while to find the panels I needed to respond, sorry for the delay.

Im going to the city for a drink man... but its cool that u wrote some more! I will read it when i come home... write some more niga!

Rabbit Teth · Oct 20, 2014

Dragonor said:
Will Sasuke submit to Orochimaru as he desires immortality ?

You must be registered for see images

What are your thoughts on this ?

Since I couldn’t find a way of answering each of your points in sequence that would be interesting for anyone to read, I thought I’d try and address this one panel and expand on it to tackle some of the particular points you raise (both here and in your theories). There isn’t much new here but hopefully enough to possibly explain the source of Sasuke’s angst.

This is how I’d read Sasuke’s ambition if he really does still serve the Snake. There is no actual proof that this is the case …yet… but hopefully the theory can explain how and why Sasuke is behaving the way he is according to the overarching framework. I’ll probably be proven wrong in a couple of days or weeks time but in the meantime, here's my take on the "One", enjoy …

Hiding in the Shadows

Sasuke, like so many characters before him, has allowed himself to fall under the Curse of Hatred and in so doing to perpetuate it. He allowed himself to become an Avenger and has thereby kept the cycle spinning. His mission consumed him and the moment he claimed victory over his brother his world was turned upside down by the realization that his brother had merely acted out of a desire to protect him.

Sasuke guilt for not being able to prevent the demise of the Uchiha has prevented him from being able to move on and rebuild his clan anew. What Sasuke doesn’t realise yet is that the forces of chaos that destroyed his clan were not just the products of an imperfect world but the careful planning of a Snake who feeds off destruction.

In this part of the theory I’m going to try and break down exactly how the Snake has engineered Sasuke’s fall from grace and why Sasuke is now acting the same way as every bad guy before him. The Snake is still hidden, so the evidence of foul play is far from concrete. However, the symbolism of the snake, the example of each of Sasuke’s predecessors and the repeating patterns of behaviour all help clear the shadows and identify the real cause of the chaos.

Roots that grow in Darkness

Minato is the first to appreciate that the tragedies that have befallen the Ninja World were not accidents or the results of flaws in the system but the product of a carefully engineered conspiracy. When discussing the death of Jiraiya, Minato recognizes that while Pain was the one to deliver the final blow, what really killed Jiraiya was the disorder that had given rise to Pain:

You must be registered for see images

Minato left a warning to Naruto that the attack by the Fox was not an accident and that someone else had engineered this disaster:

You must be registered for see images

Where Minato went wrong was in identifying Madara or the Masked Man (Obito) as being the instigators. Both Madara and Obito were also victims of the disorder that gave rise to Pain. In their own ways they all sought impose peace, whether through the mass genjutsu of Infinite Tsukuyomi or by the fear of mutually assured destruction through Nagato’s use of the Tailed Beasts as bombs. The only villain who has truly wanted chaos for the sake of chaos is Orochimaru and he’s intended to use Sasuke to achieve it from the very beginning:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke is currently realizing Orochimaru’s dream. When we see Sasuke talk about cutting all bonds:

You must be registered for see images

and operating in the shadows:

You must be registered for see images

He is not just following the example set by Itachi:

You must be registered for see images

…He is following the mantra set up in Root…
“no thoughts, no feelings”:

You must be registered for see images

“the unseen ones" protecting the tree from the darkness:

You must be registered for see images

“The Roots that grow in the Dark”:

You must be registered for see images

“Warriors of Darkness" never venturing into the Light:

You must be registered for see images

This vision of a ninja is exemplified by Kabuto who wrote and rewrote his own identity afresh until he forgot who he really was:

You must be registered for see images

We can’t be certain that this ethos came from Orochimaru but I would suggest that Orochimaru’s ability to transmigrate makes him the prime suspect in importing the practice into the leaf before then carrying it on in Otogakure. Yamato is appalled when he learns of what Sai went through and he is immediately reminded of what happened in Kirigakure under the Bloody Mist:

You must be registered for see images

The same training that predated Root was continued after Root was disbanded as seen in Orochimaru’s underground laboratories:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke was not the first to be forced into fighting his brother to the death. Sai was supposed to kill his brother to complete his training in order that he be relieved of his emotions:

You must be registered for see images

Fortunately for Sai he did not have the heritage or the bloodline limit of Sasuke:

You must be registered for see images

…and Sai’s brother Shin died of natural causes before the pair were supposed to meet in mortal combat:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke’s battle with his brother was arranged in order to break him that he might be rebuilt in Orochimaru’s image.

It could be argued that Orochimaru was nothing more than a number two to Danzo’s number one. It’s certainly possible that Orochimaru simply picked up bad habits from his time in the corrupt organization.

You must be registered for see images

However it is noteworthy that while every other operative was given a seal that could be activated to silence or kill them, Orochimaru bore no such seal:

You must be registered for see images

When Danzo became Hokage, his first concern was to cover up his prior involvement with the Snake. Danzo’s first act as Hokage was to send an assassination team after Kabuto in order to cover up their arrangements:

You must be registered for see images

What stands out to me is how Orochimaru and Black Zetsu covered both sides when arranging the Uchiha massacre. Black Zetsu arranged the rebellion started by Sasuke’s father Fugaku:

You must be registered for see images

…Fugaku

You must be registered for see images

While Orochimaru was in a position to engineer the order to eliminate the Uchiha through Danzo, who on the night of the Massacre met with Obito:

You must be registered for see images

To the outside it might have looked like Danzo was in charge but Orochimaru had free reign to experiment on Danzo and make him his puppet:

You must be registered for see images

When Hiruzen retired as Hokage and came to consider successors it was not Danzo who stood for Hokage but Orochimaru with Danzo’s support (hinted at in the manga and developed in the Anime).

You must be registered for see images

The One

A couple of people have noticed that the bad guys always mysteriously talk about the “One” and reuniting chakra. This could just be put down to the rampant egotism that each villain has expressed – Itachi warns Naruto of the dangers of falling prey to such narcissism in trying to always do everything oneself:

You must be registered for see images

But there is more to it than that. When Sasuke captured the 9 tailed beasts save for Yin Kurama he came closer than any previous villain in actually reuniting the chakra of Hagoromo’s Bijuu. Sasuke is on the verge of doing what each of his three predecessors has not been able to achieve:
Kaguya (2nd time lucky)

You must be registered for see images

Madara

You must be registered for see images

Obito

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke is almost there if he can just capture Naruto’s Yin Kurama:

You must be registered for see images

If Orochimaru and Black Zetsu’s interests coincided in the Uchiha massacre and the creation of an avenger then it is worth keeping in mind how Black Zetsu always intended for Sasuke to be hooked up to the Gedo Mazo and to serve as the vessel as seen in a private conversation between BZ and Tobi:

You must be registered for see images

The result of such a union of the tailed beasts in “One” stoking their hatred would be the rebirth of the monster with many names:

You must be registered for see images

A version of which was fought by Hagoromo and Hamura:

You must be registered for see images

and was featured in the Naka Shrine Tablet (though it’s unclear whether it was part of the lie created by Black Zetsu):

You must be registered for see images

However, I don’t think that the Shinju was an unholy tree. Hagoromo showed nothing but reverence for the Shinju:

You must be registered for see images

Rather I think that the fruit was the Demon’s fruit. This is what was forbidden to eat:

You must be registered for see images

In fact this is another name by which Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal goes by:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi might have removed Orochimaru’s chakra from his little brother:

You must be registered for see images

…but all this did was delay the inevitable. Sasuke still had the heart of an avenger that would seek out power in the end, which is exactly what Orochimaru wanted:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke first changed when he was given the Cursed Seal. Ino noticed the change most clearly:

You must be registered for see images

Sakura noticed the change as well

You must be registered for see images

While Karin recognised the changes getting worse just as we saw the demonic vision with Sasuke in its hands

You must be registered for see images

Demon (BZ Dragon)

You must be registered for see images

The Cursed Seal never truly left Sasuke. He has continued to seek out power and in doing so he has steadily realized BZ and Orochimaru’s ambitions for him. Little by little Sasuke used the Cursed Seal and little by little he lost his mind:

You must be registered for see images

Now that Sasuke has taken the tailed beasts into himself he is overwhelmed by the original Curse that was passed down into the Bijuu. Before Naruto awakened Gaara, Gaara was on the verge of killing even his siblings:

You must be registered for see images

Murder only fueled the Demon still residing in the Bijuu:

You must be registered for see images

Becoming the One is a slippery slope. At first it grants power but then that power demands more power until finally there is enough to hit the reset button:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru has wanted everything from the beginning:

You must be registered for see images

Only then can he become the “Ultimate Being”…

You must be registered for see images

The one who remains when everything else is gone - Ananta Shesha.

The Snake and Symbolism

I think that in story terms the Snake fits the description of instigator better than any unknown quantity like Tobidara or Sojobo. For me though the best evidence that the Snake is the prime culprit is not anything directly stated in the manga but rather the importance of the symbolism of the Snake and how it ties in with the forces driving Sasuke to do what he is currently doing.

Sasuke is the one who has climbed higher than any of those who have given themselves to the darkness but many of those who have delved there before him have all known that there is something more to Orochimaru.

Dosu Kinuta (the Sound user from the Village of Sound) figured out that he was being sent to die by being ordered to attack Sasuke:

You must be registered for see images

…Not that it did Dosu any good against another of Orochimaru’s pawns

You must be registered for see images

Tobi realized that Orochimaru’s experiments were too advanced and posed a threat to what he thought was his Moon’s Eye Plan:

You must be registered for see images

Madara suspected that there was something wrong about Orochimaru knowing what was written on the Naka Shrine Tablet:

You must be registered for see images

Kabuto understood Orochimaru’s plan more than Orochimaru necessarily wanted him to:

You must be registered for see images

But not soon enough to stop him corrupting Sasuke. Itachi’s desire to protect Sasuke now resides in Kabuto and Kabuto’s eyes are now opened to the full extent of Orochimaru’s manipulation, both of himself and others:

You must be registered for see images

Even Karin recognizes the removal of the Curse of Hatred and the effects on Kabuto’s chakra that Itachi’s Izanami brought about just as she recognised the blossoming of the curse in Sasuke:

You must be registered for see images

What few of Orochimaru’s pawns realised until too late was that they are all victims of and drivers for the Curse of Hatred:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru lingers in the shadows until he is staring his victims back in the Mirror..
Kabuto:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke:

You must be registered for see images

The Cycle of Hatred is not just an empty metaphor. It is a religious concept based on the idea of a holy or in Orochimaru’s case an unholy wheel (cycle). Orochimaru talks to himself about spinning the windmill and giving Sasuke fresh wind…
During the Invasion of Konoha – windmill metaphor

You must be registered for see images

Waiting slowly for his wind to come

You must be registered for see images

This wheel or windmill is the Samsara also known as the Cycle of Life or the Cycle of Suffering

You must be registered for see images

A Revolution is not just an overhaul of the Ninja system of governance. it is the turning of the wheel (a revolution is also one spin – Kishi and his play on words):

You must be registered for see images

The Lands of this Wheel correspond to the Six Dimensions of Kaguya:

You must be registered for see images

Each Path of Pain represents one of these Dimensions or “Lands”:

You must be registered for see images

Hagoromo represents the Pure Land (the Western Paradise where you’re supposed to go after you reach enlightenment and transcend the Six Purgatory Realms) :

You must be registered for see images

At the heart of this wheel are three curses… The Curse of Hatred is represented by the Snake:

You must be registered for see images

Full breakdown of the Samsara:

You must be registered for see images

Yama (Death) might turn the wheel:

You must be registered for see images

(Spiral’s Senju Kannon as Yama… notice the Five Skulls, they represent the five poisons or aggregates known as Skandha that must be overcome on the path to enlightenment)

You must be registered for see images

(a more Japanese interpretation of Yama in service to the Naraka path)

You must be registered for see images

But Yama serves Shiva the incarnation of Shesha, First among the Naga (Adishesha) and Destroyer of the Universe when the time comes. Even physicists use the symbolism of Shiva. The statue they chose to erect outside the Large Hadron Collider in Cern is a monument to the same (Big Bang Symbolsim):

You must be registered for see images

The end is represented by Shesha coiling itself back up and crushing the universe (Big Crunch (shorthand for the universe collapsing in on itself into a second singularity…”the One”) Symbolism)…
Orochimaru:

You must be registered for see images

Shesha coiling:

You must be registered for see images

The Snake’s design:

You must be registered for see images

Personally I hope Anko is the one to stop him

You must be registered for see images

DrProof · Oct 20, 2014

That demon is Sojobo. The one haunting Sasuke.

ROHAN · Oct 20, 2014

So, to further clarify on "The One" plotline :-

How it works

Actually, the term that I gave the Juubi, "The One'; the proginator of the world was just a made up idea. I pretty much got inspiration of the name from 1) The obsession with all Villains with "One", 2) An inspiration from a character with the same name from the series "Animorphs" (Interestingly, the being is a destroyer of worlds) and 3) Because it sounded cool.

Obviously, if such a character does exist in NV, then it's true name would be "GOD"; as Antichrist gave me a wonderful revelation with his Signature and my reply :-

You must be registered for see images

Well; by your Sig; I meant there are three forces here :-

Generation - Creation - Shinju.

Operation - Preservation - Kaguya.

Dissolution - Destruction - Sojobo.

G + O + D = GOD.

(G) Shinju + (O) Kaguya + (D) Sojobo = The One (GOD) - The true and ultimate GOD.

Basically, the three forces of Creation, Preservation and Destruction when combined will bring the end of the world as everything becomes one and the true and supreme GOD is revived.

From here on, Two pathways branch out :-

A) Three beings representing the three forces :-

I already gave an explanation by this theory :

You must be registered for see links

According to the above :-

Creation is Shinju.

Preservation is Kaguya.

Destruction is Sojobo or Jashin.

There is indirect/direct evidence supporting Shinju and Kaguya and I think that if Kishi goes down this route, then a god of destruction will be eventually revealed (Not Orochimaru as for my reasons ahead).

And how by combining the three beings, The Juubi, The One in a sealed state was born.

B) The Bijuu idea :-

Ever wondered why there are only Nine Bijuus ? Note : The Rabbit Bijuu was not a Bijuu, it was never stated to be so.

Well, it's because three bijuus form a trio representing the three forces in the universe :-

I.E;

Three Bijuus representing Creation.

Three Bijuus representing Preservation.

Three Bijuus representing Destruction.

There is Huge evidence which supports this evidence by the below design :-

You must be registered for see images

The Juubi's Eye, The eye that makes everything One, the eye of the Supreme God via logic that is.

Now, The Juubi'e eye has three Concentric circles, Nine Tomoes and One Dot. Get the reference now ? Let me explain :-

The outermost circle represents Creation, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the first phase of the Universe.

The next circle represents Preservation, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the second phase of the Universe.

The innermost circle represents Destruction, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the third phase of the Universe.

The central dot represents "The One", the Void, the end of the world. It is connected in real life with Black Holes and the Big-Bang.

This the Choas logic where in each phase, the Three powers become one and bring the void, i.e; Creation < Preservation < Destruction < The One / The Void.

Infinite Tskuymoni :-

As Rabbit Teth and I have stated several times; "Infinite Tsukuyomi makes everyone One".

But, what is more important is this :-

Dragonor said:
The One Force :-

Since, only one force is involved, this power is represented by :-

You must be registered for see images

A Blank Circle.

This blank circle is represented by a Full Moon (Not Crescent Moon).

You must be registered for see images

And where has the Full Moon being used in Naruto ?

You must be registered for see images

In Infinite Tsukuyomi.

As the Technique essentially "Makes Everyone One".

As said by :-

Obito :-

You must be registered for see images

Madara :-

You must be registered for see images

Kaguya :-

You must be registered for see images

I think the statement "To make everything One" has more implications than first glance.

The One Force brings neither "Peace" nor "Chaos".

It simply brings "The Void" or "The End of the World" as "Everything in Existence becomes One".

No War, No Peace, Nothing. A Perfect World......

You must be registered for see images

The Full Moon is like a dot on which the Juubi's eye gets reflected. The Full moon here is the dot/the void on the Juubi's eye. Orochimaru is always shown with the full moon showcasing his obsession with the Final and Ultimate god.

In a logical sense, in order for Orochimaru to revive "The One"; he will have to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi.

I would perhaps call it "Saigo Mugen Tsukuyomi" i.e; Final Infinite Tsukuyomi". Lol

I think that after this technique is casted Orochimaru will fully revive "The One".

Plot or planning ?

This is pretty much me being disappointed with Kishi's bland portrayal of Infinite Tsukuyomi. As, I by my

You must be registered for see links

and many others thought that Infinite Tsukuyomi could have been the foundation of a Dreamworld arc (Matrix references abound).

Obviously, it was a major disappointment with only four pages being devoted to the effects of Infinite Tsukuyomi as it was quickly pushed aside with the Kaguya plot twist. Lol

But on second thoughts, I wonder if Kishi did this on purpose to enhance the effect of a Saigo Mugen Tsukuyomi casted by Orochimaru to bring the revival of "The One" ?

One thing is for sure. It would be epic if it does happen. :bouncy:

Orochimaru :-

Why is Orochimaru doing this ? Is a question that comes to mind.

One possibility is that

You must be registered for see links

.

Making him obsessed with Perfection...

And laying the foundations of his master plan to revive

You must be registered for see links

.

To fuse with it and become the Ultimate Being.

But by doing so, he makes Creation, Preservation and Destruction void/meaningless.

Which makes me think that Orochimaru does not represent Destruction....

But instead represents the Void / Loneliness and Nothingness.

As suggested multiple times by Rabbit Teth in Orochimaru cutting Bonds...

And bringing the Void in existence.

The Missing Link :-

Obviously, If this plotline does happen, then, Orochimaru will fail in his goals absolutely. (Otherwise there is no point to the story).

While he would succeed in reviving "The One".

Ironically, he does the same mistake as all those puppets he manipulated.

That of Ignorance.

Because the Revival of "The One" would be still incomplete by both methods I said (A and B).

That's because Orochimaru does not know the existence of a missing link :-

You must be registered for see images

The Garuda himself, if my logic makes sense is the essence/will of "The One".

Dragonor said:
The Garuda :-

The Garuda is represented by Hagoromo. He got the knowledge of the existence of The One when he became the Juubi's Jinchuriki; The One in a sealed state.

You must be registered for see images

During his time as the Juubi's Jinchuriki; The One's essence flowed into him and he realized that the world will end if "The One" was fully revived.

As, such before his death; he separates The Juubi into the Gedo Mazou (Seals it into the Moon) and the Nine Bijuu, to delay "The One"s revival by the Naga.

You must be registered for see images

The Garuda is generally represented by a bird spreading it's wings.

You must be registered for see images

The Garuda keeps the knowledge of the existence of "The One" within himself willingly so as to prevent people obessed with power in reviving "The One" and bringing the End of the world.

This knowledge flows from one wing of the Garuda to the next wing in a cyclic fashion.

Since, there is no physical link between the wings; the Knowledge transmigrates from one person to another.

Which is similar to the Indra and Ashura transmigration.

You must be registered for see images

The Garuda with it's knowledge keeps on transmigrating from one person to another to stop the Naga's plans.

If Hagoromo really was the Garuda and had "The One"s essence; it would seem that he spread this essence to everyone using Ninshuu.

You must be registered for see images

By spreading Ninshuu to everyone; everyone had a piece of Hagoromo's essence.

Pretty similar to how "The One" divided himself to create everything in the world.

Naruto as the Garuda does pretty much the same thing.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

"The One" can never be truly revived without it's essence which is the Garuda.

The power of Connected Hearts by the Garuda can create a Psuedo Supreme God, where everyone is One in Hearts (Emotions) but not in Being.

These connected hearts will fill the void with emotions.

And destroy Orochimaru/The Void.

But, Not before a final showcase of the Battle of the Gods.

Tail References :-

The Juubi has Ten tails.

If each tail represents a Bijuu, then in total it would be Nine.

So, what is the Tenth Tail ? Is it the Garuda, the missing link ?

So in logical terms, is Nine Bijuu + Gedo Mazou + Garuda = "The One" ?

Or if we combine both methods, A and B, then it would be :-

Nine Bijuu + Shinju (Being representing Creation) + Kaguya (Being representing Preservation) + Sojobo/Jashin (Being representing Destruction) + Garuda (The One's essence) + Gedo Mazou (The One's Shell/Body) = "The One" ?

Plot Potential : It's simply way too enormous. Not even a single story in this world has ever gone into this concept. Even, I figured out the concept accidentally. Lol So, if it does happen in a Naruto part 3, I would be simply amazed.

So, now that this is out of my mind (Rabbit Teth reference), I am going to sleep :gn:. Feel free to leave any comments.

Rabbit Teth · Oct 21, 2014

Dragonor said:
So, to further clarify on "The One" plotline :-

How it works

Actually, the term that I gave the Juubi, "The One'; the proginator of the world was just a made up idea. I pretty much got inspiration of the name from 1) The obsession with all Villains with "One", 2) An inspiration from a character with the same name from the series "Animorphs" (Interestingly, the being is a destroyer of worlds) and 3) Because it sounded cool.

Obviously, if such a character does exist in NV, then it's true name would be "GOD"; as Antichrist gave me a wonderful revelation with his Signature and my reply :-

You must be registered for see images

Well; by your Sig; I meant there are three forces here :-

Generation - Creation - Shinju.

Operation - Preservation - Kaguya.

Dissolution - Destruction - Sojobo.

G + O + D = GOD.

(G) Shinju + (O) Kaguya + (D) Sojobo = The One (GOD) - The true and ultimate GOD.

Basically, the three forces of Creation, Preservation and Destruction when combined will bring the end of the world as everything becomes one and the true and supreme GOD is revived.

From here on, Two pathways branch out :-

A) Three beings representing the three forces :-

I already gave an explanation by this theory :
You must be registered for see links

According to the above :-

Creation is Shinju.

Preservation is Kaguya.

Destruction is Sojobo or Jashin.

There is indirect/direct evidence supporting Shinju and Kaguya and I think that if Kishi goes down this route, then a god of destruction will be eventually revealed (Not Orochimaru as for my reasons ahead).

And how by combining the three beings, The Juubi, The One in a sealed state was born.

B) The Bijuu idea :-

Ever wondered why there are only Nine Bijuus ? Note : The Rabbit Bijuu was not a Bijuu, it was never stated to be so.

Well, it's because three bijuus form a trio representing the three forces in the universe :-

I.E;

Three Bijuus representing Creation.

Three Bijuus representing Preservation.

Three Bijuus representing Destruction.

There is Huge evidence which supports this evidence by the below design :-

You must be registered for see images

The Juubi's Eye, The eye that makes everything One, the eye of the Supreme God via logic that is.

Now, The Juubi'e eye has three Concentric circles, Nine Tomoes and One Dot. Get the reference now ? Let me explain :-

The outermost circle represents Creation, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the first phase of the Universe.

The next circle represents Preservation, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the second phase of the Universe.

The innermost circle represents Destruction, and the three tomoes are the three bijuus representing it. This is the third phase of the Universe.

The central dot represents "The One", the Void, the end of the world. It is connected in real life with Black Holes and the Big-Bang.

This the Choas logic where in each phase, the Three powers become one and bring the void, i.e; Creation < Preservation < Destruction < The One / The Void.

Infinite Tskuymoni :-

As Rabbit Teth and I have stated several times; "Infinite Tsukuyomi makes everyone One".

But, what is more important is this :-

The Full Moon is like a dot on which the Juubi's eye gets reflected. The Full moon here is the dot/the void on the Juubi's eye. Orochimaru is always shown with the full moon showcasing his obsession with the Final and Ultimate god.

In a logical sense, in order for Orochimaru to revive "The One"; he will have to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi.

I would perhaps call it "Saigo Mugen Tsukuyomi" i.e; Final Infinite Tsukuyomi". Lol

I think that after this technique is casted Orochimaru will fully revive "The One".

Plot or planning ?

This is pretty much me being disappointed with Kishi's bland portrayal of Infinite Tsukuyomi. As, I by my
You must be registered for see links
and many others thought that Infinite Tsukuyomi could have been the foundation of a Dreamworld arc (Matrix references abound).

Obviously, it was a major disappointment with only four pages being devoted to the effects of Infinite Tsukuyomi as it was quickly pushed aside with the Kaguya plot twist. Lol

But on second thoughts, I wonder if Kishi did this on purpose to enhance the effect of a Saigo Mugen Tsukuyomi casted by Orochimaru to bring the revival of "The One" ?

One thing is for sure. It would be epic if it does happen. :bouncy:

Orochimaru :-

Why is Orochimaru doing this ? Is a question that comes to mind.

One possibility is that
You must be registered for see links
.

Making him obsessed with Perfection...

And laying the foundations of his master plan to revive
You must be registered for see links
.

To fuse with it and become the Ultimate Being.

But by doing so, he makes Creation, Preservation and Destruction void/meaningless.

Which makes me think that Orochimaru does not represent Destruction....

But instead represents the Void / Loneliness and Nothingness.

As suggested multiple times by Rabbit Teth in Orochimaru cutting Bonds...

And bringing the Void in existence.

The Missing Link :-

Obviously, If this plotline does happen, then, Orochimaru will fail in his goals absolutely. (Otherwise there is no point to the story).

While he would succeed in reviving "The One".

Ironically, he does the same mistake as all those puppets he manipulated.

That of Ignorance.

Because the Revival of "The One" would be still incomplete by both methods I said (A and B).

That's because Orochimaru does not know the existence of a missing link :-

You must be registered for see images

The Garuda himself, if my logic makes sense is the essence/will of "The One".

"The One" can never be truly revived without it's essence which is the Garuda.

The power of Connected Hearts by the Garuda can create a Psuedo Supreme God, where everyone is One in Hearts (Emotions) but not in Being.

These connected hearts will fill the void with emotions.

And destroy Orochimaru/The Void.

But, Not before a final showcase of the Battle of the Gods.

Tail References :-

The Juubi has Ten tails.

If each tail represents a Bijuu, then in total it would be Nine.

So, what is the Tenth Tail ? Is it the Garuda, the missing link ?

So in logical terms, is Nine Bijuu + Gedo Mazou + Garuda = "The One" ?

Or if we combine both methods, A and B, then it would be :-

Nine Bijuu + Shinju (Being representing Creation) + Kaguya (Being representing Preservation) + Sojobo/Jashin (Being representing Destruction) + Garuda (The One's essence) + Gedo Mazou (The One's Shell/Body) = "The One" ?

Plot Potential : It's simply way too enormous. Not even a single story in this world has ever gone into this concept. Even, I figured out the concept accidentally. Lol So, if it does happen in a Naruto part 3, I would be simply amazed.

So, now that this is out of my mind (Rabbit Teth reference), I am going to sleep :gn:. Feel free to leave any comments.

A lot to take in, you’ve got some really interesting ideas. You know there might be too much to fit into 3 chapters but I think Kishi has left himself enough room to get up to 1000, though that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

I’m not so keen on the G-O-D stuff just because it’s a little too far removed from how Kishi writes (I doubt he’d use an Acronym like that as a plot device let alone one that spells out an English word). I’m also not sure about the Bijuu idea since it doesn’t fit with the Bijuu we know about. That said, I totally agree on Ninshuu and Ninjutsu. Ninshuu is all about individuals working in concert as one in contrast to Ninjutsu’s monster that acts alone and feeds off the weak.

I wish there were room to see a full scale Garuda cloak. I still really want a flashback to Hagoromo and Hamura’s fight with the Juubi. For a start I think that’s where the White Snake Sage is most likely to fit into the bigger picture. In the Panel with the Juubi I think there’s a strong chance that Hagoromo rode into battle on top of Gamamaru and that Hamura rode in on the White Snake Sage. The objects that they are standing on look like helmets to me:

You must be registered for see images

Close-up on Hamura

You must be registered for see images

I think that the helmets are held in place on their respective summons by things called Shinobi-no-o which are ornate bands worn around samurai helmets (Kabuto) like this one (notice how the humans and animals swap places as well):

You must be registered for see images

Anyway, I think I only have one more segment in me that I can write on Orochimaru before I go round in circles. I could probably expand some crazy ideas (I had a stupid idea about clones that I can’t shake and I read a really interesting one on Tobirama that I can no longer find – it was on another site). Maybe I could go into some of the parallels to Egyptian or Norse mythology since it ties in as well.

With three chapters left to go, the best I can hope for is a teaser. I went back over how Part 1 ended. There was a quick farewell to most of the characters talking about how they were going to carry on training and get stronger and there was a moment for Tsunade pondering her new position:

You must be registered for see images

I hope Tsunade lives through Part 2 but her life is on the line in this battle. Kakashi being forced into stepping into Tsunade’s shoes (by whatever means) would not come entirely out of the blue.

As far as this theory goes I’m hoping that we get a moment dedicated to Orochimaru, Hamura, BZ or Spiral to set up a Part 3. At least I would want to see Orochimaru’s reaction to the outcome of this fight. This battle is the climax to a long journey that started with Sasuke seeking power from Orochimaru (these panels are from the very last chapter of Part 1):

You must be registered for see images

ROHAN · Oct 25, 2014

Rabbit Teth said:
The One

A couple of people have noticed that the bad guys always mysteriously talk about the “One” and reuniting chakra. This could just be put down to the rampant egotism that each villain has expressed – Itachi warns Naruto of the dangers of falling prey to such narcissism in trying to always do everything oneself:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But there is more to it than that. When Sasuke captured the 9 tailed beasts save for Yin Kurama he came closer than any previous villain in actually reuniting the chakra of Hagoromo’s Bijuu. Sasuke is on the verge of doing what each of his three predecessors has not been able to achieve:
Kaguya (2nd time lucky)

You must be registered for see images

Madara

You must be registered for see images

Obito

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke is almost there if he can just capture Naruto’s Yin Kurama:

You must be registered for see images

If Orochimaru and Black Zetsu’s interests coincided in the Uchiha massacre and the creation of an avenger then it is worth keeping in mind how Black Zetsu always intended for Sasuke to be hooked up to the Gedo Mazo and to serve as the vessel as seen in a private conversation between BZ and Tobi:

You must be registered for see images

The result of such a union of the tailed beasts in “One” stoking their hatred would be the rebirth of the monster with many names:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

A version of which was fought by Hagoromo and Hamura:

You must be registered for see images

and was featured in the Naka Shrine Tablet (though it’s unclear whether it was part of the lie created by Black Zetsu):

You must be registered for see images
[/B]

However, I don’t think that the Shinju was an unholy tree. Hagoromo showed nothing but reverence for the Shinju:

You must be registered for see images

Rather I think that the fruit was the Demon’s fruit. This is what was forbidden to eat:

You must be registered for see images

In fact this is another name by which Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal goes by:

You must be registered for see images

Itachi might have removed Orochimaru’s chakra from his little brother:

You must be registered for see images

…but all this did was delay the inevitable. Sasuke still had the heart of an avenger that would seek out power in the end, which is exactly what Orochimaru wanted:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke first changed when he was given the Cursed Seal. Ino noticed the change most clearly:

You must be registered for see images

Sakura noticed the change as well

You must be registered for see images

While Karin recognised the changes getting worse just as we saw the demonic vision with Sasuke in its hands

You must be registered for see images

Demon (BZ Dragon)

You must be registered for see images

The Cursed Seal never truly left Sasuke. He has continued to seek out power and in doing so he has steadily realized BZ and Orochimaru’s ambitions for him. Little by little Sasuke used the Cursed Seal and little by little he lost his mind:

You must be registered for see images

Now that Sasuke has taken the tailed beasts into himself he is overwhelmed by the original Curse that was passed down into the Bijuu. Before Naruto awakened Gaara, Gaara was on the verge of killing even his siblings:

You must be registered for see images

Murder only fueled the Demon still residing in the Bijuu:

You must be registered for see images

Becoming the One is a slippery slope. At first it grants power but then that power demands more power until finally there is enough to hit the reset button:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru has wanted everything from the beginning:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Only then can he become the “Ultimate Being”…

You must be registered for see images

The one who remains when everything else is gone - Ananta Shesha.

Apparently Sasuke has finally gotten the missing Piece to the puzzle.

He has gotten Yin Kuruma's Chakra.

You must be registered for see images

The stress on Yin Kuruma makes me wonder. If Sasuke is like the Gedo Mazou and the Juubi is "The One"; then it is enough reason for Orochimaru to take over Sasuke's body.

Shisho · Oct 25, 2014

That wall with the stands and the three spirals, it was an Uzumaki clan thing. Orochimaru himself stated that the Uzumaki clan owned the mask for the Reaper Death Seal, and that this was their clan area. However, some of this stuff is very interesting. Good job.

Byron123 · Oct 25, 2014

Some of the connections were a bit stretched up but I must say that this was an excellent thread and quite impressive considering how you connected themes which at first glance seem to be unrelated.

Rabbit Teth · Oct 26, 2014

Dragonor said:
Apparently Sasuke has finally gotten the missing Piece to the puzzle.

He has gotten Yin Kuruma's Chakra.

You must be registered for see images

The stress on Yin Kuruma makes me wonder. If Sasuke is like the Gedo Mazou and the Juubi is "The One"; then it is enough reason for Orochimaru to take over Sasuke's body.

He stole some chakra but I don't think he actually retrieved Yin Kurama. Sasuke has said a couple of times that he needs to kill Naruto in order to allow him to obtain the final Bijuu. This upcoming chapter should determine whether Sasuke is ready for the Demon.

Shisho said:
That wall with the stands and the three spirals, it was an Uzumaki clan thing. Orochimaru himself stated that the Uzumaki clan owned the mask for the Reaper Death Seal, and that this was their clan area. However, some of this stuff is very interesting. Good job.

We haven't had any exposition on the meaning of the Uzumaki mask. I'm just putting forward some ideas about the origins of the mask. As the Dead Demon Seal I find it intriguing that it is stored under a shrine to Kaguya whose nickname was the Demon. The rest of the masks are also stored above flames which suggests those captured by the Demon end up in some kind of hell dimension once they've been used as White Zetsus. We need to find out more about the Uzumaki before anything can be said for certain. It'd be a shame if the Manga finished before we found out more about Naruto's clan.

Byron123 said:
Some of the connections were a bit stretched up but I must say that this was an excellent thread and quite impressive considering how you connected themes which at first glance seem to be unrelated.

Thanks. It's just a theory. I don' know whether I've stretched the facts too much but I think there's enough grounding to suspect that Kaguya wasn't the Demon and that someone else was. Oro hasn't played out as a bad guy quite yet and I think he fits the bill.

Anyway I promised one more section. I'm hoping for something from the Snake in the next two chapters but for now I thought I'd focus on…

Orochimaru’s Lies

One thing I should clear up is where Orochimaru came from. I make the case for Orochimaru to be the bad guy at the end of all this but I’m not even sure we know his name or what his true face looks like (except the giant bijuu style snake he uses for the Transmigration Ritual that we’ve only seen once):

You must be registered for see images

There was a kid who grew up alongside Jiraiya. His parents were killed when he was seven. When Jiraiya says he was never the same again after this event:

You must be registered for see images

... I think that the boy was possessed and that the Demon masqueraded as the Orphan… hence the lack of emotion at Oro’s parents grave and his early obsession with Immortality:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru became a host to the “Demon” whose power (the Juubi’s power) had been divided and distributed by Hagoromo. Essentially the Demon’s chain of transmigration is much longer than Indra or Asura’s:

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen being the smart guy he was asked the right questions. When he faced off against Orochimaru, Hiruzen asked how many hosts Orochimaru had used:

You must be registered for see images

Oro’s response that he “believes” two is a lie. Oro’s Transmigration Dimension hides the souls of all those who acted as host as well as those killed and eaten by the Demon for chakra. There are at least five different faces apart from Sasuke’s in Oro’s Personal Dimension:

You must be registered for see images

Here are the faces highlighted:

You must be registered for see images

I haven’t seen any theories that have tried to explain who the people in Orochimaru’s Dimension are (though I’m sure they exist somewhere from a long time ago). These are who I think Orochimaru’s former hosts are (please let me know if I’m wrong)…

The girl (Red Arrow and expanded on the Right) is the Host that Orochimaru uses during the invasion of Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

The man beside her (also expanded on the Right) is the one that Orochimaru transmigrated into when Sasuke didn’t arrive in time at the end of Part 1 for the ceremony (Sasuke went off to fight Naruto at the Valley of the End instead of reaching his destination):

You must be registered for see images

I think one of the two guys on the right is the Sound Instructor who attended the Chuunin Exams:

You must be registered for see images

..and there is another that I don’t think we know anything about (if anyone has any ideas I’d like to hear them). The general rule is that Oro can’t transmigrate more than once every three years:

You must be registered for see images

However it may be that oro can last longer than three years so long as he doesn’t wear out his body:

You must be registered for see images

The reason for this could be that the Demon simply has too much power for any one of these bodies to contain, which is why Oro is so obsessed with the heirs to Hagoromo … the only ones with the Bloodline Limits capable of containing his power without breaking apart. It may be that because the essence of Orochimaru is anchored to the mortal plane, even if his body is destroyed he may be able to survive:

You must be registered for see images

We have certainly seen numerous examples of Oro surviving through his cursed seals or by simply jumping into and taking over a body …like the White Zetsu body he is currently inhabiting (I don’t count this one as a transmigration):

You must be registered for see images

To me, it looks like there were more hosts than there should have been in Oro’s dimension and that there was also room for many more besides that hidden under a sea of White Zetsu.

Orochimaru never trusted Kabuto with the truth. Oro never trusted any of his guinea pigs. Kabuto was under the delusion that Orochimaru never had Sage Mode:

You must be registered for see images

Even the White Snake Sage joins in this lie telling Kabuto that Orochimaru did not have a body suitable for Dragon Sage Mode … unlike Kabuto of course (playing to his ego):

You must be registered for see images

As soon as Oro is released by Sasuke from the Izanami’d Kabuto and Anko, he pretty much confirms that he has Dragon Sage Mode. Oro describes his Cursed Seal bite as a form of Senjutsu (which hadn’t been confirmed up until that point):

You must be registered for see images

While Kabuto thinks that he is the first to obtain Dragon Sage Mode he doesn’t seem to have recognised the significance of the pigmentation around Orochimaru’s eyes. Fukasaku describes this pigmentation as the manifestion of Sage Mode:

You must be registered for see images

Oro’s Eyes:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru has not been waiting for Sasuke to be in a weakened state so that he can possess his body. Orochimaru instead requires his victims to trade their soul for power (from the record of Orochimaru’s Guinea Pigs I doubt Orochimaru always keeps his word):

You must be registered for see images

With Sasuke the trade was an exchange of his soul for power:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke has already gone beyond Stage 2 of the Cursed Seal into unknown territory:

You must be registered for see images

Right now Sasuke is about to use the one technique at his disposal never intended to be used against a friend (his final friend):

You must be registered for see images

If Sasuke succeeds then he will have taken the final step towards emptying himself ready for something or someone else to take his place:

You must be registered for see images

All that remains…

You must be registered for see images

Post script - Thanks for reading and all the comments. Hope you've enjoyed the thread. I don't know whether anything will come of all of these ideas but I guess we'll have to wait and see ...

ROHAN · Oct 27, 2014

lojzaHD said:
Spoiler chapter 698?

You must be registered for see images

"It's finally resolved!! Naruto vs Sasuke!! And then both will do?!"

Something big is gonna happen next chapter.

Unless the bold refers to the release of Infinite Tsukuyomi. But that would mean the fruit of the Shinju will ripen which could be the start of a new arc.

Rabbit Teth · Oct 28, 2014

Dragonor said:
Something big is gonna happen next chapter.

Unless the bold refers to the release of Infinite Tsukuyomi. But that would mean the fruit of the Shinju will ripen which could be the start of a new arc.

A new fruit of the Shinju starting to grow on some random branch would be a great teaser for part three. Sasuke can’t be far off uniting all the chakra of the Bijuu. I’d love to see Sasuke attacked by the Shinju before the end but with Kaguya out of the picture the plant looks pretty dormant right now. I have no idea how Kishi is planning to wrap up these last chapters, hence why I’m still carrying on with my old Orochimaru theory.

I think it’s safe to say that IT will be undone but how without Naruto and Sasuke co-operating yet is anybody’s guess.

I’ve probably exhausted the reasons why Orochimaru is the Demon but I was reminded of another old theory about how Orochimaru might seduce Sasuke into becoming his plaything. Here's some ideas on what Orochimaru might use / have used as ….

Leverage

We have only seen the process whereby a nin is elevated to the position of Hokage once. Tsunade did not want the position at first. What convinced her to take the position seriously was an attempt by Orochimaru to corrupt her into using forbidden jutsu to reclaim his arms.

What is interesting about this attempt at Tsunade’s corruption are the potential parallels to Sasuke and his ambition to revive his clan. Tsunade was offered the return of her younger brother Nawaki and the love of her life Dan in exchange for her medical specialism:

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade was sorely tempted by this offer. It’s easy to forget how close Tsunade came to accepting Orochimaru’s proposal…before turning down Oro she poisoned Jiraiya (with a view to using him and Naruto as sacrifices):

You must be registered for see images

:and attacked the ever loyal Shizune (notice the stylistic departure into Darkness and how closely it parallels Sasuke)

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke’s departure to join Orochimaru:

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade even tried bargaining for the village

You must be registered for see images

…which recalls the effort made by Gen'yūmaru

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade might have been tempted by the return of her loved ones:

You must be registered for see images

…but Tsunade came to recognise her blindness and eventually remembered what was required of those elected to becoming Hokage:

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade finally broke through, attacking Orochimaru and reforging her resolve:

You must be registered for see images

Becoming Hokage demanded a willingness to put everything on the line in order to protect even just one solitary child:

You must be registered for see images

After giving up on Tsunade as a means of returning his arms, Orochimaru threatened that his alternative means of reacquiring access to his arms would entail the destruction of Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

Tsunade in the end accepted the position she had at first scoffed at:
Before

You must be registered for see images

After

You must be registered for see images

So what has this got to do with Sasuke? Well Sasuke is in much the same position as Tsunade was. Sasuke’s remaining ambition is to revive the Uchiha clan:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke has at times revised this ambition to destroy the leaf (his current goals are a variation on this):

You must be registered for see images

..but what he really wants is to get his family back:

You must be registered for see images

I wonder whether Orochimaru’s fall back of destroying the Leaf in order to recover his arms was actually being realised when Sasuke was used to gain access to the Uzumaki Shrine:

You must be registered for see images

I also wonder whether Sasuke would have been able to show the same resolve as Tsuande had he been made the same offer by Orochimaru. The revival of Sasuke’s clan is what motivated Sasuke to seek out the Darkness - notice the parallels with Sasuke's corruption and a recent flashback:
By the River

You must be registered for see images

Into the Darkness

You must be registered for see images

If anyone can offer Sasuke the opportunity to revive his family by destroying the leaf then it’s Orochimaru. The cursed seal used the feelings of powerlessness in Sasuke to take over his soul:

You must be registered for see images

We don’t know how active Orochimaru was involved in the Uchiha Massacre but we do know he had access to the bodies of the victims:

You must be registered for see images

Could Sasuke have been offered the return of his family?

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke knew he was no match for Orochimaru with his arms returned and yet he took steps to revive the Snake anyway...:

You must be registered for see images

It’s only speculation but how easy would it have been for Orochimaru to have made the same offer to Sasuke that he made to Tsunade. Tsunade was able to resist such pressure but arguably the efforts to corrupt Sasuke have been far greater than anything we’ve seen before. I for one would be intrigued to see Fugaku come back as one of Orochimaru’s zombies…

You must be registered for see images

Anyway…food for thought.

Rabbit Teth · Nov 5, 2014

I hope nobody minds if I resurrect this thread for one last hurrah. I had no intention or bringing this theory back up before the end but then somebody sent me a request and after that I found some new material that supported my case. I’ve been catching up on the Anime and something jumped out at me grabbing my attention. This got me thinking again and before I knew it I was writing a new segment.

This entire theory is probably on the verge of being put to sleep once and for all but here’s one last go at providing some proof as to how Orochimaru connects to the Demon and how Oro might even be connected to the events of the Last.

Orochimaru’s Handiwork

First things first, this segment relies on material that has emerged from the Anime. I, like many others, consider the Anime non canon where it departs from the Manga. However there is a fuzzy line between Manga and Anime where very occasionally small details are clarified in the Anime in ways that cannot be achieved in the Manga. For instance, it is extremely hard to tell that Indra’s MS pattern is a Spiral design if you only read the Manga (the reason why I think Spiral Zetsu is Indra) – it is almost impossible to make out from the Manga alone:

You must be registered for see images

However with the benefit of the Anime, you can clearly make out the Spiral Design that would only be apparent if you had the hard copy of the Manga (all the scans kind of obscure the detail):

You must be registered for see images

In other respects, the Anime develops stories hinted at in the Manga in ways that are not universally accepted as canon. For instance, you may have wondered what happened to Gyuuki’s horn, he has been missing this horn for as long as we’ve known the Hachibi:

You must be registered for see images

The last we see of this horn it is chopped off by some Kumogakure nin, possibly belonging to the Kinkaku Force (Kumo’s ANBU/Root):

You must be registered for see images

If you watch the Anime then you have learnt that Fukai was poisoned by Orochimaru as part of his continuing studies and that Gyuuki’s horn ends up in one of Orochimaru’s tanks (around the 7 minute mark):

You must be registered for see links

So what came to my attention while catching up on the Anime? Kaguya’s eye jumped out at me. No not the Sharinnegan that we’ve all been wondering about since it first appeared but Kaguya’s eye when Madara recounts the story of the Shinju. In the manga there is absolutely nothing untoward about the panel (except the suggestion that Kaguya used TSB to massacre those bowing to her):

You must be registered for see images

In the Anime this takes on a much clearer appearance. Kaguya’s right eye suddenly shows a very unique design that marks her as a victim of the Snake:

You must be registered for see images

Here’s a closeup:

You must be registered for see images

…and in case you’re wondering where you’ve seen that marking before… both Kabuto and Sasuke have at time borne this mark:
Kabuto

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke

You must be registered for see images

Next up is Naruto’s arm in the Last. We found out recently that Naruto lost his arm against Sasuke:

You must be registered for see images

Then we notice that Naruto's arm is covered up:

You must be registered for see images

...But why is Naruto’s arm in bandages? So what you might say. This question is important because it rules out most miracle cures to Naruto’s missing limb. If Tsunade or Sakura had grown Naruto’s arm back for him using their regeneration techniques then you wouldn’t expect there to be the need for any bandages. Likewise if Naruto had used his new Sage abilities (what he used to grow back Kakashi’s eye) then the same would be true.

What is distinctive is that we’ve seen this type of repair job before. Danzo had the entire side of his body repaired using Hashirama cells and as a result needed those bandages you always see him under:

You must be registered for see images

Danzo did not achieve this himself. Even Tobi recognizes this as the work of Orochimaru:

You must be registered for see images

While Kabuto later acknowledges Orochimaru’s handiwork (excuse the pun) being behind both Danzo and Madara’s improvements:

You must be registered for see images

One of Danzo’s first acts as Hokage was to attempt to cover up his relationship with the Snake, which he’d failed to achieve using Sai:

You must be registered for see images

I suspect that Orochimaru does not actually repair Naruto and Sasuke’s arms (though he might if the Manga is really coming to an end). Instead I suspect that Kabuto employs what he learnt as Orochimaru’s understudy and as the adopted son of Root’s Chief Medical Officer Nonou – perhaps even using some of Yamato’s cells. Kabuto did wonders with both of Orochimaru’s arms after Hiruzen sealed them:

You must be registered for see images

Toneri Ootsutsuki Random Thoughts

By special request, here are some collected ideas on Toneri Ootsutsuki, his significance and his role in the upcoming movie. These ideas are at the very earliest stage. I wouldn’t usually write a theory without more to work on but since we are coming to the end and the only confirmed continuation of the story relies on a new villain that we know very little about, I thought I’d share some ideas. At worst I hope you find this mildly distracting until we get the final chapter. Spoiler warning in case any of this is true (however much of a long shot that might be…)

That Symbol

We might not know much about Toneri but at least we know his symbol. This could just be a random mark given to a throwaway filler villain before the story gets further developed in a part 3 or finishes entirely. Kishi has said, however, that this movie is canon and fits in with the tail end of the manga. With that in mind it’s worth considering the significance of this symbol:

You must be registered for see images

Some features of this design jump out. Most notable is the crescent moon to the left and the smaller enclosed circle to the right. This symbol shares parallels with the Fan design of the Uchiha:

You must be registered for see images

… and the off centre concentric circles of the Hagoromo Clan:

You must be registered for see images

Given that we know Toneri belongs to the Ootsutsuki clan we can figure that Toneri’s design predates both the Uchiha and Hagoromo clans and might tie in with Kaguya’s royal heritage (she’s a princess):

You must be registered for see images

From the synopsis for the movie we know that Toneri is punishing mankind for using Chakra as a weapon – which ties in with Kaguya’s Original Sin of eating the fruit of the Shinju:

You must be registered for see images

We also know that Toneri is planning to smash the moon into the Earth. This is significant because the Moon is where the Juubi / Kaguya was sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura:

You must be registered for see images

Indeed the seal design for Chibaku Tensei is perhaps the closest thing we have to the design for Toneri’s symbol (though in reverse):

You must be registered for see images

The last detail we know about the movie is that it involves the kidnapping of Hanabi:

You must be registered for see images

It would seem that Toneri is really after Hinata but that for whatever reason he is only able to take Hinata’s younger sister (see A Place in the Sun for some thoughts on Hinata’s earlier kidnapping

You must be registered for see links

). After getting the wrong Hyuuga princess, Toneri uses Hanabi to lure Hinata (accompanied by Naruto and friends) on a dangerous rescue mission. Lots of people seem to be after Hinata though we don’t yet know why exactly (Royal Blood / Byakugan):

You must be registered for see images

Hopefully the Last will provide some background on how the Hyuuga are related to the Ootsutsuki and their shared Byakugan:

You must be registered for see images

Some Speculation

In the first section are collected the significant pieces of information that have been released / leaked into the public domain. In this section I’ll try and fill in some of the gaps with some loose bits of information I’ve gathered from looking up the religious significance of items / characters in the story. If you’ve read any of my theories then you may recognise some of this information. The only real piece we have to work with is Toneri’s symbol. Here’s a close-up:

You must be registered for see images

This is a very common symbol and appears all over the world. Across Europe and the US it appears mostly on geometric prints borrowed from Ottoman designs. You will see this design on items like rugs / scarves / ties / cufflinks / tiles … Most people who wear this design probably do not know what the design signifies or where it came from but the decoration hides an ancient story about a dragon and jewel.

You must be registered for see images

It is particularly popular in Japan where it adorns shrines and bridges in various guises – Here is some art telling the story of the Cintamani:

You must be registered for see images

The Dragon guarding the jewel is called Makara. Makara is a very Eastern depiction of a Dragon, bearing the Trunk of an Elephant and the body of a fish / crocodile. Makara is often carved into wooden doorways in Temples:

You must be registered for see images

You may recognise Makara in Hashirama’s Wood Dragon:

You must be registered for see images

Makara lives under the seas in his Dragon Cave and protects a special wish fulfilling jewel (the Sanskrit translation of Cintamani). Cintamani appears in China and Japan where it is also known variously as Mani Hoju Mandara Zushi E (The Jewel That Removes Misfortune)/ Hōju 宝珠 / Hōju-no-tama 宝珠の玉 / Nyoi Houju 如意宝珠.

From early folklore about a Dragon and his precious gem the Jewel has come to hold greater significance as a symbol of spiritual riches and redemption. The wish fulfilling properties of the Jewel represent hope for the poor and downtrodden. As a holy item the jewel represents the power of a Buddha (Kannon in Japan, Guan Yin in China) to rescue the souls of the common man and in particular to progress humanity along the path to enlightenment.

The Cintamani is one of the more important items carried in the hands of the Senju Kannon (the 1000 Armed Kannon) seen here in the manga:

You must be registered for see images

…and here in real life:

You must be registered for see images

Each of Kannon’s 1000 arms holds a representation of a religious relic said to have special meaning to followers of Buddhism – here are a variety that mostly also turn up in the manga:

You must be registered for see images

There are 1000 of these items so I won’t point out where all of these items appear in the Manga but it's worth looking at a few of the more obvious examples..

The Axe is often shown in possession of Sakura. This is known as a Tetsupu which symbolizes bringing harmony (what Sakura is always attempting to do between Naruto and Sasuke):

You must be registered for see images

The Seal is what appears on Neji and Hyuuga Branch family member’s foreheads. It is known as a Hōin or Kyōji and represents the possession of all virtues:

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke as an incarnation of Indra carries the Bow and Arrow (the Hōkyū and Hozen representing control over one’s emotions):

You must be registered for see images

…as well as the Vajra (Indra’s weapon representing resolve and bearing the three prongs symbolizing Buddha, Dharma (Buddhist law) and Sangha (the community of believers):

You must be registered for see images

In japan the Cintamani represents a promise to aid those trapped in one of the six Pure Lands – a limbo or purgatory that the soul resides in prior to completing the path towards enlightenment. That is the realm of Hungry Souls which corresponds to Preta Path of Pain:

You must be registered for see images

Here you can see a statue of a Buddha carrying a Cintamani outside the main shrine in Konoha:

You must be registered for see images

…and here is a real life depiction of a Buddha carrying the same (notice the Sage’s staff in his arms as well)

You must be registered for see images

Cintamani are not just treated as decorative objects in Naruto. They are also the means by which Hiruzen watched over Naruto while he was alive:

You must be registered for see images

…and the source of Gamamaru’s prophecies:

You must be registered for see images

The White Snake Sage has a Cintamani as well though we don’t yet know what he used his for:

You must be registered for see images

I wonder whether Toneri Ootsutsuki has been living in the Realm of Hungry Souls prior to his appearance in the Last. Certainly at least two of the Pure Lands that we have visited have had constructions in the background. The Pure Land dominated by lava and a volcano:

You must be registered for see images

… and another dominated by ice:

You must be registered for see images

I would hazard a guess from Toneri Ootsutsuki’s pale blue eyes that he corresponds to the Ice Realm. Indeed we might even have seen Toneri looking on in the background (though it might just have been Sakura at a distance)

You must be registered for see images

The building in the Ice Realm evokes another real world building called Hagia Sophia. Hagia Sophia is a monument in what is now Turkey but which dates back to the Eastern Roman Empire (before the Roman Empire collapsed it divided into two Empires one based in Rome and the other in Byzantium (renamed Istanbul by the Ottomans)).

Hagia Sophia started off as a Church named after the Roman goddess of wisdom, Sophia (who we get words like sophisticated from – early Christians happened to find a Saint of Wisdom called Sophia co-opting the existing beliefs of the Empire) and was marked with a crescent moon (the symbol of another popular Roman goddess Diana, the huntress). Hagia Sophia, along with all of Turkey was conquered by the Ottoman Empire who in turn adopted the crescent moon as their symbol (the cresent moon has nothing to do with Islam but lots of Muslim countries have adopted the symbol as a reminder of the once mighty empire of the Ottomans).

Here is Hagia Sophia:

You must be registered for see images

...and here is a close-up of the Ice Realm Palace:

You must be registered for see images

On top of the Hagia Sophia is the mark of the crescent, which happens to look a lot like the Cintamani:

You must be registered for see images

The Cintamani was also one of the Standards used by the Mongols who challenged the Early Ottoman Turks at the same time as they were fighting the Byzantine Empire (AKA the Eastern Roman Empire):

You must be registered for see images

If Kishi wanted to borrow a real world symbol for the remnants of a clan devoted to power (Diana) and wisdom (Sophia) then Hagia Sophia would be a suitable choice...

Of course Orochimaru whole ethos is all about knowledge and power (Ninjutsu in contrast to Hagoromo’s Ninshuu):

You must be registered for see images

One final consideration comes from the 4th Databook. It would appear that Hamura was left to guard the Gedo Mazo in the moon. It seems that Hamura did not do a very good job of ensuring that the Gedo Mazo remained there.

Madara believed that he was the one responsible for summoning the Gedo Mazo from the Moon to Earth by combining Uchiha and Senju / Indra and Asura:

You must be registered for see images

Between Madara implanting Hashirama cells into his body and the actual summoning of the Gedo Mazo from the Moon there is an enormous gap. I suspect that the same person who was able to improve upon Madara’s prime might have been the one responsible for actually bringing the Gedo Mazo down to earth. Orochimaru’s handiwork can be seen both in the Hashiboob that adorns Danzo and Madara…
Danzo:

You must be registered for see images

Madara:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru’s fingerprints also appear to be present in whatever turned Hagoromo’s body from this:

You must be registered for see images

into this:

You must be registered for see images

Here’s a contrast between one of Oro’s cursed seal victims and the Gedo Mazo complete with spirit snakes:
Cursed Seal Victim

You must be registered for see images

Gedo Mazo / Hagoromo’s Body

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru might even have been the one activate and then to transplant Madara’s eyes into Nagato. Madara had to wait many years after consuming Hashirama’s flesh before his eyes upgraded – simply implanting the flesh does not seem to have had an immediate effect:
Madara biting Hashirama:

You must be registered for see images

Madara activating Rinnegan shortly before he died

You must be registered for see images

A to B simply the result of combining Uchiha and Senju / Indra and Asura?

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru was in the vicinity at around the same time Nagato’s eyes were replaced – the man who knows everything also seems to pay no attention to the Sage’s eyes that even Jiraiya recognised:

You must be registered for see images

I think that there’s a chance that Orochimaru might just have orchestrated the deaths at the heart of Nagato’s pain by leaf shinobi – the way he orchestrated so many other convenient deaths:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru even comments that he believes that Sasuke, unlike any of his other experiments, will one day Surpass Madara:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru really shouldn’t have known anything about Madara or his plans and yet he knew what was on the Naka Shrine Tablet:

You must be registered for see images

He knew how to improve Madara past his prime:

You must be registered for see images

… and he wasn’t recruited by Akatsuki, he infiltrated it without anybody knowing or understanding why:

You must be registered for see images

Madara’s capacity with Mokuton pales in comparison to what Orochimaru knows:

You must be registered for see images

Orochimaru knows more about Mokuto, how to cultivate it and how to counteract it, than anybody:

You must be registered for see images

What if, and I admit it’s a big what if, Orochimaru used Madara as a puppet without him realizing. BZ might have recovered Madara’s body in the first place but Madara’s return owed as much to Orochimaru as to Tobi or BZ.

So what has any of this got to do with the Last movie. Well, if the Gedo Mazo is indeed Hagoromo’s body then that would mean that Kaguya’s body is still sealed in the Moon. Crashing the Moon into Earth could escalate whatever nefarious plans are afoot from using the body of a Jinchuuriki who contained 9 Bijuu to one that contained 10. Then again if this last fight has shown us anything then it is that strength is not measured by the number of tails one has … even if, generally speaking, it helps to have more:

You must be registered for see images

Anyway, hope this takes the edge off the wait for the coming conclusion. This is just a theory. I could well be proven wrong before next light. I hope Kishi delivers some surprises … even if that means Tobidara.

[Theory] The Demon

Banned

Active member

Member

Awards

Banned

Member

Member

Awards

Active member

Awards

Banned

Banned

Member

Awards

Active member

Awards

Active member

Awards

Member

Awards

Active member

Awards

Member

Active member

Awards

Member

Awards

Active member

Awards

Member

Awards

Member

Awards