[Debate] Is everything the U.S. governments fault

[Funky Tiger]

Wow freaking thanks Obama.​

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[Punk Hazard]

It's obvious though. Clearly the United States, formed in the late 18th Century, was souly and chiefly responsible for all of those you listed.

I mean who else would have unleashed the Black Death on 15th century Europe or the 6th Century Byzantine empire.

The US Government convinced Lucifer in freedom and equality for all. Hence, Satan was born.

 

[The Work]

Yeah pretty much.

U.S. takes tries to take over everything and make it into a democracy.

But they say they're not an imperialistic nation.

 

[Aim64C]

@Bold: That is one powerful statement.

It is, really.

They may not bow down in worship or something along those lines - but everyone has a philosophical concept of God, even if they do not believe that there is a divine being of creation.

Even people who are devout believers in a divine creator, particularly those who grew up between 1950 and 1990, believe the government is insanely powerful. They lived with the powers of the CIA, they worked within the military-industrial complex that was continuously developing something better than the Soviets (or that was the goal).

Their entire worldly experience was built around the idea that the government tried to recruit the best minds and the most competent people into development and intelligence projects to combat the Russians. If -anyone- knew, some U.S. government official did.

This can be best summed up with Agent Smith from The Matrix. Many of the people who subscribe to this belief see most of the government as being Agent Smith - as being part of a highly efficient, nearly all-knowing group that has a plan to deal with everything.

Even my father, as much as he resisted the cookie-cutter education and other such products of progressivism, was still somewhat embedded in this belief. He didn't believe the politicians knew what was going on - but he believed the agencies we had in place still did, and were competent.

And in a sense, he was right. The government has been infinitely better at punishing those who disagree with the expansion of government power than it has been at combating external and internal threats to citizens.

Anyway - a lot of foreigners have grown up under a very interventionist America. Our reputation for stopping Hitler's march and the Japanese conquest has largely faded from the minds and lives of people.

What our reputation is, now, revolves largely around Vietnam, Bosnia/former Yugoslavia, Iraq, and Afghanistan - with numerous other skirmishes and squabbles all over the world that barely make our news.

We are seen as a nation that has immense resources compared to other nations. We often fail to realize that our own States are frequently very large and rich nations unto themselves by European standards - our nation is something in the neighborhood of two Europes (combining all factors) all operating under one government. The EU - the goal of unifying Europe - has been the defacto U.S. since the 1800s.

And we are also seen as having made it a point to find an interest in absolutely every corner of the world. We'll find any reason we can come up with to charge into a nation and begin replacing leaders for reasons that might make zero sense within their culture.

A Saudi leader who doesn't believe in what the Qu'ran bluntly says about women covering up - or about men having authority over women? That's clearly not what Allah would have leadership believe.

So, these people largely grow up with the belief that the U.S. can and will find a reason to intrude into their lives. And, as people frequently do, it is often done when all other explanations don't work. It is also used by their politicians. The strange plague sweeping through the region? Well, everyone is kind of upset that the guy in power is all cozy with the Americans - just tell them that you have information that America started it and you'll have a lot more people willing to back your rise to power.

It's the mess that comes with being both the biggest kid on the block and the biggest kid on the block who likes to take far too much interest in all of the other kids on the block.

And then our internal politics are just a nightmare.

 

[sharingan67]

Capitalism and usury.

 

[YowYan]

The enslavement of the human race and the matrix of power is very real. You just have your heads up your asses. Educate yourself, simpleton nay sayers.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Aim64C]

The enslavement of the human race and the matrix of power is very real. You just have your heads up your asses. Educate yourself, simpleton nay sayers.

The problem, Yow, is that you assume criminals miraculously became gods because they put on a suit and tie.

Humans have, throughout history, devised systems through which to control each other.

They are still humans. They still bleed. They still make errors. They are subject to the same incompetence wrought from birthrights.

And there are things that do happen that are well outside of their ability to control. There are many "they" with many different plans and goals. Sometimes they work in concert, other times they work in opposition. Sometimes they grand-stand, other times they do not.

Allow me to ask a more simple question:

What, exactly, would you have us do with the 'education?'

Because it sounds like all I would be doing is educating myself on the futility of it all. A matrix of power so dense as to be impenetrable with the goal of enslaving all of us.... Are we going to vote our way out of it? No... they have made that futile.

How about an armed rebellion?

No... that's futile, too.

Passive resistance? ... Well, that's not much better than an armed rebellion.

To be blunt - the only thing your perspective seems to be good for is "See, I was right all along."

It's a perspective so centered on the problems as to be incapable of devising any meaningful solution... or even any meaningful information. Let's say we could get a platoon sized group together - we're all like-minded and realize the dangers of the matrix of power.... what do we do?

Who do we kill?

How do we avoid enslavement?

What resources do we deny 'the matrix' or acquire, ourselves?

What's the -plan-?

Other than to just be the Doomsday Jehovah's Witnesses, going door-to-door spreading the knowledge that we are all about to become slaves?

Now - if you want a man who has a more complete perspective:

You must be registered for see images

It's this guy.

 

[Wabbit]

From terrorists to North Koreans they believe America is the problem
For their dictators or preachers it is easy tell everything is wrong because of America instead of getting there shit together.
You just brainwash your people it is because of America or some more powerful country,give them a cause and they will follow you and keep you in your power.

 

[YowYan]

The problem, Yow, is that you assume criminals miraculously became gods because they put on a suit and tie.

Humans have, throughout history, devised systems through which to control each other.

They are still humans. They still bleed. They still make errors. They are subject to the same incompetence wrought from birthrights.

And there are things that do happen that are well outside of their ability to control. There are many "they" with many different plans and goals. Sometimes they work in concert, other times they work in opposition. Sometimes they grand-stand, other times they do not.

Allow me to ask a more simple question:

What, exactly, would you have us do with the 'education?'

Because it sounds like all I would be doing is educating myself on the futility of it all. A matrix of power so dense as to be impenetrable with the goal of enslaving all of us.... Are we going to vote our way out of it? No... they have made that futile.

How about an armed rebellion?

No... that's futile, too.

Passive resistance? ... Well, that's not much better than an armed rebellion.

To be blunt - the only thing your perspective seems to be good for is "See, I was right all along."

It's a perspective so centered on the problems as to be incapable of devising any meaningful solution... or even any meaningful information. Let's say we could get a platoon sized group together - we're all like-minded and realize the dangers of the matrix of power.... what do we do?

Who do we kill?

How do we avoid enslavement?

What resources do we deny 'the matrix' or acquire, ourselves?

What's the -plan-?

Other than to just be the Doomsday Jehovah's Witnesses, going door-to-door spreading the knowledge that we are all about to become slaves?

Now - if you want a man who has a more complete perspective:

You must be registered for see images

It's this guy.

Well, that's pretty much my point ._.

That they're being arrogant meanwhile still clueless. The members on here shouting "conspiracy theorist" and not having analyzed and connect the dots to see patterns in global issues. They just open their simpleton mouths which I react on. I don't do that in rl, I leave simpletons be. On the forum, I vent.
That's all really.

Anywho, being informed doesn't really make anything better, as you said. It just makes you depressed. I go to work everyday feeling like an economic slave, paying lots of tax money while my government spends it on a bugatti police car..But!..what's more frightening is to see people completely convinced that life as we live it right now is completely fine and the "it is what it is" mentality, basically giving up on nourishing their minds, striving towards self-sustainability and such. If educated, it only starts being usefull when you try manifest your knowledge into deeds. Stir your neighbours to grow frontyard foodgardens and share the harvest for free with the community. Unite and brainstorm on how to fight government corruption and decisions that do not benefit the people in the slightest. But that's all so hard to do with all the mandatory things we have to do in our everyday lives. Personally, I think it's hopeless and we'll unknowingly end up in a hunger games scenario within a hundred years.

I'm not really sure what you mean by 'gods'. I see unity in diversity as god, as an ideal manifested by many can change reality, so yeah..I don't see a lizard humanoid pulling the strings, if that's what you meant?

(Rushed my post as usual. At work)

 

[Vapid]

In reality, regardless of how racist this may sound, everything is white people's fault. That's just how it is. :/

I say this as a white man.

 

[Jonesy161]

Yeah pretty much.

U.S. takes tries to take over everything and make it into a democracy.

But they say they're not an imperialistic nation.

Not everything, just the countries that the U.S. sees beneficial to them such as countries with high volumes of oil to be acquired from underground. If the country already has issues that the U.S. can exploit to acquire the assets, they'll take advantage of it. Not sure if citizens are more aware as of late or if the U.S. government has become sloppy, but the U.S. are masterminds at starting things without people noticing (i.e. make the other side look like bad guys or that they took the first shot).

 

[NineSNS]

Generally speaking, these people have lived in an environment where they see the government as being very powerful and very efficient.

The US government might be powerful, and maybe its military is efficient, but as a rule of thumb, if you want something to take more time and cost more money, have the government do it.

Your other points were all valid.

OT - people prefer to blame instead of accepting responsibility, especially those who feel powerless.
All governments are self-serving, some more so than others.

I don't support everything the U.S. has done, but I can talk about that here or anywhere, which is pretty cool.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

The U.S. is great, sure there are some shady things the government has done but that applies to all governments of all time.

Overall though when shit hits the fan who do other countries look too? Us. And who most of the time answers the call and makes a positive impact on the situation? Us.

People are just so "anti-goverment" because it's the cool thing to do, like saying **** the police. But in reality they don't know much other than what they've read on a website or on a youtube video. No goverment is perfect, nothing in this world is perfect. To expect that is just nonsense.

 

[rickjamesbitceh]

A real class act. edit: oops, thought this was the hitler thread

 

[Rekudakune]

us has the power to end entire humanity at an extinct, why drop nukes when you can secretly drop ebola diseases on other countries

 

[YowYan]

The U.S. is great, sure there are some shady things the government has done but that applies to all governments of all time.

Overall though when shit hits the fan who do other countries look too? Us. And who most of the time answers the call and makes a positive impact on the situation? Us.

People are just so "anti-goverment" because it's the cool thing to do, like saying **** the police. But in reality they don't know much other than what they've read on a website or on a youtube video. No goverment is perfect, nothing in this world is perfect. To expect that is just nonsense.

I'm sure the general public in the u.s. are great. As for your govt? Not at all..wake up. U.s. is fascist and deludes the citizens with a fake sense of superiority over other nations. You people lost the true meaning of patriotism.

 

[nefraiko]

as an arab, I will try to give you an objective point of view of a moroccan citizen.

where do I start, hum...I remember when I was young (I don't know, 13 years maybe), I'm just sitting near my father and he's watching aljazeera : massacre in gaza, massacre is not the word, hum, in arabic the word is "majzara" witch is the place where cows and sheeps are killed everyday so we can have our meat, when you hear majzara, you see blood in your head, arabic is a very visualising language...whatever.

us arabs, despite living in different nations, being different citizens, still feel very connected, by religion and by history, we think about the people that are being killed in gaza, and in irak as brothers, as family, and we can do nothing, and this has been going for a very long time, we've been colonised, our countries stolen, and we are continuously harassed and stopped in our developpement process.

I'm blaming no one here, I'm just trying to explain how some people feel.

let's take a look at the last israel-gaza event, america has done nothing to stop it, there was even a debate where the war was legitimated and people actually believed it.

there was a time when arabs had power in the world, I don't think they used it like the U.S and europe, arabs didn't crush people, we feel now as we are being crushed, like bugs.

AND to make things worse, we are the bad guys in the equation, WE are the terrorists and WE have to explain ouselve WE have to deffend constantly our religion that is being insulted constantly as a non logical undevelopped dangerous way of thinking.

when we see an arab in an american film he is with a donkey or a cow, he is dirty and has a funny accent.

as an arab I grew watching this on TV, I explain to you how I feel, so you can maybe understand a little more the situation.
america supports the dictators of our contries, look at how the revolution in egypt and syria are going.

don't america have the power to get rid of bashar al asad ? ****ing use the CIA to kill the man like it was done many times before ?

do you understand now why america can be unpopular ?

america is unpopular yes, but as an arab, I dream of living in this country, or canada, or any developped nation, why ? for my survival, simply, in my country for example I really don't want to get sick, hospitals are crappy and I could die waiting nobody would give a shit about me, it's really, really hard to find work, in my country everything has a high price and life can be really hard.

why is it like that ? are we arabs just unable to manage our countries ? are we a dumb race ? or are we just being constantly stolen and left with nothing ? are we stupid or was it meant for us to not have a proper education ?

do you know the borders between morocco and algeria were drawn with a ruler ? just look at the map, the sahara area was left in confusion by the spanish so now we have a conflict with our brothers in algeria.
america supported saudi arabia, that supported general Sisi to counter the democracy process that's been going in egypt, egypt is now again ruled by an army man, he is actually the president of egypt now, when we hear things like this we laugh.

america is constantly making fun of us, and with time, we started to make fun of ourselves, we are the ****ing terrorists hahahahahhahahhah