[Discussion] Zoro vs Crocodile

[Bogard]

like your one-sided arguments are any better, right? You've completely ignored what I said about the manga as well.

I ignored it because i don't like debating against people who when they fail in arguments ressort to pitful insults. Not only the debate in question had nothing to do with Zoro, but i'd have said the same thing against characters much weaker/stronger than Zoro. I just find Crocodile too overrated to even be a match for a character on Zoro level, weaker or stronger. It's what i think and it's not like it's something new

I already made a thread before concerning Crocodile versus Doflamingo executives:

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And again, Crocodile was overrated to no end. Why is that? That dude was defeated by Alabasta Luffy's gomu gomu no storm. Now you say i'm wanking because i say Zoro fodderizes him? The funny thing is that in the thread presented i said the same thing about much weaker characters than Zoro. So is that really wanking? Or is it simply Crocodile that i find overrated?

 

[Punk Hazard]

I ignored it because i don't like debating against people who when they fail in arguments ressort to pitful insults. Not only the debate in question had nothing to do with Zoro, but i'd have said the same thing against characters much weaker/stronger than Zoro. I just find Crocodile too overrated to even be a match for a character on Zoro level, weaker or stronger. It's what i think and it's not like it's something new

I already made a thread before concerning Crocodile versus Doflamingo executives:

You must be registered for see links

And again, Crocodile was overrated to no end. Why is that? That dude was defeated by Alabasta Luffy's gomu gomu no storm. Now you say i'm wanking because i say Zoro fodderizes him? The funny thing is that in the thread presented i said the same thing about much weaker characters than Zoro. So is that really wanking? Or is it simply Crocodile that i find overrated?

Crocodile vs the Donquixote officers is just one of multiple examples of ¨It's not always the stronger one that wins.¨

Crocodile is a bad matchup for them, but let's not digress.

 

[Bogard]

Crocodile vs the Donquixote officers is just one of multiple examples of ¨It's not always the stronger one that wins.¨

Crocodile is a bad matchup for them, but let's not digress.

Like i've said in the thread, besides Bufallo, Machwise and maybe Baby 5 and Viola, all the executives are stronger than him if they can touch him

 

[Punk Hazard]

Like i've said in the thread, besides Bufallo, Machwise and maybe Baby 5 and Viola, all the executives are stronger than him if they can touch him

Sure, stronger as in they pack more of a whollop, but he can still defeat them.
Dellinger, Pica, Gladeus, Lao G, all haven't shown Haki. Gladeus is completely useless when fighting him, Crocodile turns Pica's powers against him and can't be harmed by Pica, and Dellinger and Lao G, while having superior speed, can't touch Crocodile and would get themselves caught in moisture-draining sand.

 

[Hexuze]

I ignored it because i don't like debating against people who when they fail in arguments ressort to pitful insults. Not only the debate in question had nothing to do with Zoro, but i'd have said the same thing against characters much weaker/stronger than Zoro. I just find Crocodile too overrated to even be a match for a character on Zoro level, weaker or stronger. It's what i think and it's not like it's something new

I already made a thread before concerning Crocodile versus Doflamingo executives:

You must be registered for see links

And again, Crocodile was overrated to no end. Why is that? That dude was defeated by Alabasta Luffy's gomu gomu no storm. Now you say i'm wanking because i say Zoro fodderizes him? The funny thing is that in the thread presented i said the same thing about much weaker characters than Zoro. So is that really wanking? Or is it simply Crocodile that i find overrated?

Lol thanks for showing the thread. Here someone is saying the same thing as what I was saying, Croc. did intercept Mihawk.:

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Crocodile being overrated is bothering you? Now you know how most of us feel about Zoro being overrated. Who said I've fail in arguments? I already proved to you why Croc. intercepted Mihawk and you still never refuted my point. Anime & Manga > your words, sorry if your hate towards Croc. can't compute that but Croc. did intercept Mihawk. The only reason why I'm making a "big deal" out of this small scene is because you're pretty much denying manga/anime evidence. It's pretty ironic/hilarious that you're calling NB members stupid for not following simple things but you can't even understand what's going on in 3 manga panels + an animated scene.

 

[Bogard]

Sure, stronger as in they pack more of a whollop, but he can still defeat them.
Dellinger, Pica, Gladeus, Lao G, all haven't shown Haki. Gladeus is completely useless when fighting him, Crocodile turns Pica's powers against him and can't be harmed by Pica, and Dellinger and Lao G, while having superior speed, can't touch Crocodile and would get themselves caught in moisture-draining sand.

Crocodile's desert espada is barely building level. Pica's stone assimilation control can cover town or islands. Not only that but the Crocodile ability to turn things to moisture takes time. He is never really completely annihilating Pica's powers. More like he would get crushed if he ever tried something like this that requires contact with the object(assuming Pica can hit him). We don't know if Pica has haki though(he wasn't even in the thread discussion anyway). Same goes for Gladius, Lao G and the rest. For the sake of the discussion however i gave them the ability to touch him and with the vast superiority in speed that they have over Crocodile, Crocodile will rapidely be killed either way

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol thanks for showing the thread. Here someone is saying the same thing as what I was saying, Croc. did intercept Mihawk.:

You must be registered for see links

Crocodile being overrated is bothering you? Now you know how most of us feel about Zoro being overrated. Who said I've fail in arguments? I already proved to you why Croc. intercepted Mihawk and you still never refuted my point. Anime & Manga > your words, sorry if your hate towards Croc. can't compute that but Croc. did intercept Mihawk. The only reason why I'm making a "big deal" out of this small scene is because you're pretty much denying manga/anime evidence. It's pretty ironic/hilarious that you're calling NB members stupid for not following simple things but you can't even understand what's going on in 3 manga panels + an animated scene.

Didn't even realize that alt was unbanned.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Crocodile's desert espada is barely building level. Pica's stone assimilation control can cover town or islands. Not only that but the Crocodile ability to turn things to moisture takes time. He is never really completely annihilating Pica's powers. More like he would get crushed if he ever tried something like this that requires contact with the object(assuming Pica can hit him). We don't know if Pica has haki though(he wasn't even in the thread discussion anyway). Same goes for Gladius, Lao G and the rest. For the sake of the discussion however i gave them the ability to touch him and with the vast superiority in speed that they have over Crocodile, Crocodile will rapidely be killed either way

Yeah, the issue is that I don't care for fictionalized standards and stipulations. As it stands currently, they can't touch him, but he can touch them. That allows him to defeat them despite being inferior in strength. If you have to give them an ability they've never shown just to make them able to damage Crocodile, then you've got your answer.

¨The stronger one isn't always the one that wins.¨

 

[Bogard]

Lol thanks for showing the thread. Here someone is saying the same thing as what I was saying, Croc. did intercept Mihawk.:

You must be registered for see links

Crocodile being overrated is bothering you? Now you know how most of us feel about Zoro being overrated. Who said I've fail in arguments? I already proved to you why Croc. intercepted Mihawk and you still never refuted my point. Anime & Manga > your words, sorry if your hate towards Croc. can't compute that but Croc. did intercept Mihawk. The only reason why I'm making a "big deal" out of this small scene is because you're pretty much denying manga/anime evidence. It's pretty ironic/hilarious that you're calling NB members stupid for not following simple things but you can't even understand what's going on in 3 manga panels + an animated scene.

The difference between Crocodile and Zoro is that we've not seen Zoro go all out yet. So i have no problems with people thinking he is weaker or stronger than a certain character considering that his real level isn't really seen yet, so can be interpretated dependly on everyone's opinion on the character. Though obviously there are limits to not try to pass like saying BS like he is admiral level or something. Personally at least, the only way for me to rate Zoro's level of strength at the moment is to put him just below characters who are portrayed to be stronger than him(Law and Luffy). Everything else is self explanation with no concrete proof really.

It's not the same concerning Crocodile however. We've seen Crocodile being defeated by Alabasta Luffy. Not only that, but Bartolomeo said that everyone was surprised that someone who defeated Crocodile actually managed to beat someone like Lucci. With all those emphasis, i think it's clear as day where Crocodile stands in this manga and because of this i find it a ridiculous notion people who think he can people on Lucci level if not above.

That contradict totally with the manga and make me upset, not because i hate Crocodile, but just i like logical debates. Crocodile is actually even one of my favs. I like badass characters like him, Smoker and Zoro. But i never do favoritism in debates. I like Robin as well but i know Franky is stronger. There are many characters that i like who aren't particularly strong if any. I don't like characters because of their strength

 

[Olorin]

Post Ts Zoro is probably stronger than MF Croc

But it is possible that the post TS Croc will be steonger than Zoro at first

 

[Bogard]

Post Ts Zoro is probably stronger than MF Croc

But it is possible that the post TS Croc will be steonger than Zoro at first

I won't count on it personally. Crocodile isn't supposed to have a faster growth rate than a supernova from the worse generation when they are the ones who are said to create the most chaos in the new world when they entered. Crocodile is someone who failed in the new world the first time he entered and even after entering again, he isn't considered as much of a threat as the supernovas from the worse generation. To me Crocodile's plot influence will more be related with things like ancient weapons since he was originally introduced in searching them

 

[Olorin]

I won't count on it personally. Crocodile isn't supposed to have a faster growth rate than a supernova from the worse generation when they are the ones who are said to create the most chaos in the new world when they entered. Crocodile is someone who failed in the new world the first time he entered and even after entering again, he isn't considered as much of a threat as the supernovas from the worse generation. To me Crocodile's plot influence will more be related with things like ancient weapons since he was originally introduced in searching them

Crocodile doesn't need to be a part of the worst generation, he was known well before they arrived

And why would someone like X Drake have a faster growth rate? So far Croc is a far bigger player in the story of One Piece than any supernova bar Luffy, Law and Zoro

 

[sravan]

1.zorro wins
2.croc

 

[Bogard]

Crocodile doesn't need to be a part of the worst generation, he was known well before they arrived

And why would someone like X Drake have a faster growth rate? So far Croc is a far bigger player in the story of One Piece than any supernova bar Luffy, Law and Zoro

The thing is Crocodile was weaker than Zoro(or anyone from the worse generation for the matter). Would find it personally strange if Crocodile turned out to be stronger post-skip than them considering it would mean in this case that he has faster growth rate than a youngster part of the generation of pirates the most feared, so supposed to have faster growth-rate than anyone and surpass previous generations of pirates like Law hinted when he defeated Vergo in Punk Hazard(with even pictures of Supernovas around when he said that to emphasize his words).

Oda already built up the supernovas from the worse generation to be the big players in the new world. All of them already started creating chaos in the new world according to Brownbeard and now they are forming alliance to take down yonkou, so it's not just Luffy, Law and Zoro in my opinion. They have been created for a reason

1- You know when Oda created them? Around Shabondy archipelo
2- You know why Oda created them? To create concurrence

We see here Kid, Law and Luffy trying to compete against each other:

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Here we see Law concerned about Drake:

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We see here Bonney, Capone, Hawkins, Apoo, Urouge somehow concerned by Zoro:

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Apoo says it better as well that Law shouldn't have saved a future enemy(concurrent):

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With the 2 above, the question you must ask yourself is why Oda would create rivals on the spot if the turns out to be much weaker(if at all) than Luffy during or a little after their arc introduction? Would make no sense right?

1- Law and Kid are Luffy's main rivals. True and wrong again. True because they are presented to be the rivals who will be the closest to Luffy in terms of competition somewhere around the end of the manga. Wrong because while it's true they are presented as his main rivals, it's only in the long time span. As it stands all the other supernovas are equally rivals to Luffy. Law and Kid are simply presented to be the one with the greatest potential/challenge to Luffy, not necessarly the current strongest

2- Just look at Law. 2 years prior he only had a bounty of 200millions berry, that means lower than the likes of Kid, Luffy, Drake, Hawkins. I know bounty doesn't represent strength but in my opinion it shows that Hawkins, Drake were at least around his level of strength. Infact they were the most famous according to Shakky:

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And you see how strong Law is currently right? I don't expect the likes of Kid, Drake or Hawkins to do anything less or at least be able to operate on a similar level as it stands(infact i'm pretty confident someone like Kid or Drake will end up being stronger). After all even 2years prior Hawkins, Drake, Kid and Law remained the center of attention(with Blackbeard who joined the worse generation):

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After all, Kid judged someone like Hawkins is strong enough to help him in a fight against a yonkou

3- Apoo is presented to be in conflict with Kid, even asking him to postpone their fight to when they enter the new world:

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. Not to mention he was also judged to be strong enough to be called by Kid/Killer to fight a yonkou despite Kid hating the guy:

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It shows that despite hating the guy, he was full confidence in his strength to the point he had no choice than accepting an alliance with thim

4- There is also the chapter supernovas vs 4 captains where the captains(mainly Urouge, Hawkins and Drake) were presented in similar light. Infact Urouge is the one who damaged pacifistas the most:

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5- Killer is the only non-captain besides Zoro among the worse generation. It's very likely he was created to concurrence Zoro in accomplishments. Not to mention he earlier showed to be capable to compete with Urouge with Drake intervening and telling them to settle this in the new world:

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And is now part of the alliance to face a yonkou. Infact he is the one who called Hawkins and Apoo to make the alliance(not captain Kid) as an equal

The only one i'm unsure about is Bonney and Capone considering they don't have that much hype yet but Bonney at least seemed to want to have a grudge against Luffy/Zoro because of what they did in Shabondy:

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. Not to mention she seems related to the government somehow(the way Akainu spoke to her) and judging by Capone's design, he can easily end up being a greater broker than Doflamingo

 

[Fireplay]

Zoro wins both.

 

[Olorin]

@T Bogart ... i'll be honest, after the first 2 paragraphs I just stopped caring, waste of time really, but I don't think most supernova will be that big of a deal overall

 

[Bogard]

@T Bogart ... i'll be honest, after the first 2 paragraphs I just stopped caring, waste of time really, but I don't think most supernova will be that big of a deal overall

No problem. I guess time will time. It's not like i wasted time typing it anyway. I just copied and pasted one of my previous posts concerning the supernovas evolution

 

[Punk Hazard]

No problem. I guess time will time. It's not like i wasted time typing it anyway. I just copied and pasted one of my previous posts concerning the supernovas evolution

I agree with you 100%. Crocodile has had his run, he's about 43-44 now right? It makes no sense for a character to have higher growth rates than budding Supernovas that have taken the world by storm when he's already had his run.

For Oda to implement and focus so much on the Supernova and portray them as rivals to the Strawhats and them immediately curb that would be bad writing, and we know Oda doesn't do bad writing.

 

[Love Cook]

Nah. Zoro leaps into the air at the very same moment he transforms and blends into the ground. He isn't nowhere, Crocodile now is the span of the desert, his conscience is part of the entire thing. A move like O Tatsumaki in the opposite direction, a way for it to spiral downwards is more than enough to defeat Crocodile, bonded with the desert or not. A launched Sables, a launched Spada, means nothing, because the constant slicing of the O Tatsumaki and the pain would make Crocodile pass out. He's leagues below Zoro and his attacks.

The Spada to Akainu did nothing. He transformed on reflex. Akainu did the same with explosives, both Rob Lucci and Bartolomeo survived those with no problem, so it shows Akainu doesn't transform because he absolutely needs to, his body just does.

This strategy wouldn't work for Pica he doesn't BECOME stone, he can assimilate it, which is basically Earthbending. If he merges with his golem, and someone attacks the golem, he doesn't feel the pain because the golem doesn't become part of him, he just covers himself with stone and can ¨Earthbend¨ it.

Filled to the brim with speculation.

Why would Zoro leap in the air when croc goes into the sand. There is no immediate sense of danger at that point. Let's say that Zoro can jump 5 meters high as a super human. that's still not a lot if you have a surface that stretches for miles beneath you.

You don't know if his consience is part of the entire thing, it might be a spot as large as his body. Speculation.

Tatsumaki is a tornado move, it makes no sense for it to be able to be able to drill down. It would most likely disperse. Speculation

Spada might not mean much to a logia of admiral class, but it was instant and it was sharp. If Zoro can't see where he needs to attack because there is no physical body he doesn't know where to attack and where to defend.

Sand that is being slashed while crocodile is using it doesn't hurt him, that also doesn't make sense. Look back at the gattling gun scene where Luffy punches through Croc's sand and it does nothing to him. So that wasn't even speculation but just a false claim.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Filled to the brim with speculation.

Why would Zoro leap in the air when croc goes into the sand. There is no immediate sense of danger at that point. Let's say that Zoro can jump 5 meters high as a super human. that's still not a lot if you have a surface that stretches for miles beneath you.

You don't know if his consience is part of the entire thing, it might be a spot as large as his body. Speculation.

Tatsumaki is a tornado move, it makes no sense for it to be able to be able to drill down. It would most likely disperse. Speculation

Spada might not mean much to a logia of admiral class, but it was instant and it was sharp. If Zoro can't see where he needs to attack because there is no physical body he doesn't know where to attack and where to defend.

Sand that is being slashed while crocodile is using it doesn't hurt him, that also doesn't make sense. Look back at the gattling gun scene where Luffy punches through Croc's sand and it does nothing to him. So that wasn't even speculation but just a false claim.

Why wouldn't he? You're telling me there's no conceivable scenario that Zoro wouldn't jump to avoid contact with the desert?

His conscience is connected to the entire thing as long as he is part of it. Vergo confirmed it in that manga page, Logia powers create a greater surface area and target. Let's say Crocodile creates a Desert: Heavy and tosses it, or a Sables, or a Spada, and Zoro slices them, it wouldn't harm him because he's not connected to it. But if Crocodile has a stream of sand coming from his body that is attached to his body, and Zoro cuts it, it would cause him pain. If you have an issue with it, take it up with Oda, he wrote it, not me, so it's not speculation. You don't know whether or not Luffy punching the sand caused any discomfort to Crocodile because Crocodile's face wasn't shown until he was already being struck by the Gatling.

Busoshoku Haki allows you to strike Logias as though they have a physical body. When a Logia ¨streams¨ their element out from their own body, such as Smoker's smoke or Crocodile's sand, and it's attached, it counts as part of their body, so a Busoshoku Haki user can strike that as though it was a physical body. This was, once again, confirmed in that Vergo scan earlier.

And why is it speculation for Zoro to jump up, and speculation for O Tatsumaki to be able to spin on its side, but it's not speculation to say Crocodile can merge with the desert and travel underground in the first place? This entire thread is gonna be speculation for the most part. If it's too much to speculate that Zoro would jump, then it's far too much to say Croco can burrow underground and become one with the desert.