She was tactically retarded because she couldn't employ any real strategy to definitively kill Naruto or Sasuke after she found her resolve.. While Madara is easily able to identify and make countermeasures as Kaguya didn't have a true battle instinct, she was a princess with power not a warrior.
This isn't Dragonball Z, power isn't everything here, remember that a master with a pebble can defeat a rookie with a Kunai. Madara had MANY tactical advantages against Naruto and Sasuke BOTH which would've ensured his victory, Madara's power is the closest to the Sage than both NARUTO & SASUKE who only represented mere halves.
The manga made nothing to indicate kaguya was any less tactical than madara. If that were the case, someone would have said something about it in order for kishi to let the readers know, ESPECIALLY if it was such an enormous factor that madara would have actually destroyed naruto and sasuke.
Madaraʻs power is absolutely not the closes to the sages, kaguyaʻs power is far closer, and what happened when madara said the bolded? He got fodderized, impaled, sliced in half and forced to run away from a naruto and sasuke who hadnʻt even begun to use their powers.
Youʻve given literally zero positive evidence that madara would have defeated naruto and sasuke, all youʻve done is tried to plea that Kaguya > Madara isnʻt necessarily true. Youʻve given zero positive arguments for why madara is > kaguya, all the evidence screams kaguya >>> Madara, and therefore Kaguya >>> Madara in the minds of anyone looking at this manga with a shred of objectivity.
I didn't mean warming up like not taking madara seriously, I meant warming up like still not at full power(still learning/getting used to the basics of their powers)
And senjutsu is a counter to tsb, plus naruto has it too and limbo isn't a problem for them, what's madara solution to tail beast bomb combo and PS slash?
Senjutsu was never shown to break the truth seeking ball shield where they surround themselves with it, only kamui and 8gates gai were shown to. and limbo is a problem for them after Naruto sent his shadow clowns to fight them more were shown later which means they have no counter for it madara is untouchable with 4 of them surrounding him read the original post again I have manga pages to prove this there..
again Truth seeking balls has been shown to tank tail beast bombs 4 of them at a time, same thing with susanoo slash. remember vs obito..
The manga made nothing to indicate kaguya was any less tactical than madara. If that were the case, someone would have said something about it in order for kishi to let the readers know, ESPECIALLY if it was such an enormous factor that madara would have actually destroyed naruto and sasuke.
Madaraʻs power is absolutely not the closes to the sages, kaguyaʻs power is far closer, and what happened when madara said the bolded? He got fodderized, impaled, sliced in half and forced to run away from a naruto and sasuke who hadnʻt even begun to use their powers.
Youʻve given literally zero positive evidence that madara would have defeated naruto and sasuke, all youʻve done is tried to plea that Kaguya > Madara isnʻt necessarily true. Youʻve given zero positive arguments for why madara is > kaguya, all the evidence screams kaguya >>> Madara, and therefore Kaguya >>> Madara in the minds of anyone looking at this manga with a shred of objectivity.
The manga made nothing to indicate kaguya was any less tactical than madara. If that were the case, someone would have said something about it in order for kishi to let the readers know, ESPECIALLY if it was such an enormous factor that madara would have actually destroyed naruto and sasuke.
Madaraʻs power is absolutely not the closes to the sages, kaguyaʻs power is far closer, and what happened when madara said the bolded? He got fodderized, impaled, sliced in half and forced to run away from a naruto and sasuke who hadnʻt even begun to use their powers.
Youʻve given literally zero positive evidence that madara would have defeated naruto and sasuke, all youʻve done is tried to plea that Kaguya > Madara isnʻt necessarily true. Youʻve given zero positive arguments for why madara is > kaguya, all the evidence screams kaguya >>> Madara, and therefore Kaguya >>> Madara in the minds of anyone looking at this manga with a shred of objectivity.
Kaguya was taking advice from Bz during the fight which indicated she was clueless on what to do against Naruto and sasuke maybe you should re read those 13 chapters.
at bold : Madara only had one of his rinnegans and no truth seeking balls left only one which he was using as a staff and that's not the madara im talking about in my thread, perhaps you should read the original post and stop posting ignorance on my thread. I clearly stated 3 eyed madara with the truth seeking balls in the back..
Senjutsu was never shown to break the truth seeking ball shield where they surround themselves with it, only kamui and 8gates gai were shown to. and limbo is a problem for them after Naruto sent his shadow clowns to fight them more were shown later which means they have no counter for it madara is untouchable with 4 of them surrounding him read the original post again I have manga pages to prove this there..
again Truth seeking balls has been shown to tank tail beast bombs 4 of them at a time, same thing with susanoo slash. remember vs obito..
Naruto has unrivaled strength with 5 tails which is at least equal to Gai's and sasuke has his own s/t, he can just teleport madara out of the orb and let naruto do the beating and limbo is in no way a problem, naruto only many like 5 clones against it while he made like 1000 against kaguya
tsb cant tank anything powerful with senjutsu, that's why it didn't save obito from PS combined with 9atils and senjutsu
It was extremely implied through battle, her strategy just involved divide and conquer... Through totally exhausting her Chakra, just to separate the pair... She had no idea of the techniques used against her, Madara had analytic skill that Kaguya didn't or this battle would've lasted MUCH LONGER, she was easily deceived by Naruto's Reverse Harem Jutsu, IN THE MIDDLE OF DEATH COMBAT.
As an opponent, she was completely nowhere near Madara's league minus the power department.
The manga made nothing to indicate kaguya was any less tactical than madara. If that were the case, someone would have said something about it in order for kishi to let the readers know, ESPECIALLY if it was such an enormous factor that madara would have actually destroyed naruto and sasuke.
Madaraʻs power is absolutely not the closes to the sages, kaguyaʻs power is far closer, and what happened when madara said the bolded? He got fodderized, impaled, sliced in half and forced to run away from a naruto and sasuke who hadnʻt even begun to use their powers.
Yes, it was. Madara attained the Sage's Power almost in it's entirety... He had the DNA, he was Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, and he had the power of Senjutsu & plus he absorbed the Shinju Tree.... Kaguya's power wise was ABOVE Hagaromo... But as implied, she was never a warrior, just a princess who became consumed by the Shinju Tree. One, he had one Rinnegan..... His objective at the moment was to get into the Kamui world to retake his Rinnegan, so evasive measures had to be used, he was already damaged, and PLUS HE HAD ALREADY ACHIEVED HIS GOALS. Take the Rinnegan, become the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, & cast IT.
He literally WON. And still would've killed Naruto and Sasuke, why in the hell do you think the story had to be retconned so badly as to have Black Zetsu's entire history as Madara's creation and will change... To have him stabbed in the back & then die... Immediately. For a character that had NO worldly business of being there in the first place. Kishi had to write an ending for Madara, and with that whole statement by him that he had NO weaknesses there was nothing else to do but what was already done and have Madara killed off in the most BS fashion.
Youʻve given literally zero positive evidence that madara would have defeated naruto and sasuke, all youʻve done is tried to plea that Kaguya > Madara isnʻt necessarily true. Youʻve given zero positive arguments for why madara is > kaguya, all the evidence screams kaguya >>> Madara, and therefore Kaguya >>> Madara in the minds of anyone looking at this manga with a shred of objectivity.
Plea... It's definitive that Madara battle wise is far more powerful than Kaguya. It OBVIOUSLY showed through battle, not everything has to be SAID, it's been shown... Kaguya fought with no direction, no real objective, she just KNEW she had to subdue Naruto and Sasuke somehow. Majorly failed, got distracted, and in a quick shot exhausted ALMOST ALL of her Chakra... That's not intelligent in the least. And if you're looking at things OBJECTIVELY then Madara > Kaguya... He actually REALIZED ALL of his goals.
Naruto has unrivaled strength with 5 tails which is at least equal to Gai's and sasuke has his own s/t, he can just teleport madara out of the orb and let naruto do the beating and limbo is in no way a problem, naruto only many like 5 clones against it while he made like 1000 against kaguya
tsb cant tank anything powerful with senjutsu, that's why it didn't save obito from PS combined with 9atils and senjutsu
Give me a manga page where it says Naruto using 5 tail's chakra is stronger than 8 gates gai's taijutsu techs
Sasuke was never shown to teleport other objects but only swap himself with them and if he did do that swap himself with madara inside the orb Madara would simple change the shape of the truth seeking balls to penetrate sasuke causing severe injury or death
you acting like Naruto can just hit madara, Limbo would not allow it and if Naruto would make shadow clones to fight the limbo the shadow clones would either get destroyed or madara would simple summon more and if Naruto makes hundreds of clones madara would simple shinra tensei them all.
and btw the susano attack went thru obito only because of obito not being sure on what he wanted to do, he didn't know where his heart was thus Naruto and sasuke went right thru him in that clash. before than you can clearly see obito tanking all of their attacks, including senjutsu susano swings and kyuubi mix with senjutsu swings and tbb's
Kaguya was taking advice from Bz during the fight which indicated she was clueless on what to do against Naruto and sasuke maybe you should re read those 13 chapters.
no it doesnʻt, her taking advice from Bz shows that she didnʻt know everything he learned since heʻs been around for hundreds of years while sheʻs been sealed.
at bold : Madara only had one of his rinnegans and no truth seeking balls left only one which he was using as a staff and that's not the madara im talking about in my thread, perhaps you should read the original post and stop posting ignorance on my thread. I clearly stated 3 eyed madara with the truth seeking balls in the back..
Thatʻs irrelevant. Madara stated that he had both naruto and sasukeʻs powers in one body, yet he got kicked around like a kid, and read what point I was responding to, it wasnʻt yours it was a point from someone else who stated that madara > naruto or sasuke because he has both of their powers which is falsified by madaraʻs quote.
It was extremely implied through battle, her strategy just involved divide and conquer... Through totally exhausting her Chakra, just to separate the pair... She had no idea of the techniques used against her, Madara had analytic skill that Kaguya didn't or this battle would've lasted MUCH LONGER, she was easily deceived by Naruto's Reverse Harem Jutsu, IN THE MIDDLE OF DEATH COMBAT.
Based on what did she not have any idea of the techniques used against her? Based on what did madara have analytic skill that kaguya didnʻt? and on the level that would have allowed Madara to beat people that kaguya couldnʻt? So what if she was deceived by narutoʻs reverse harem?
Yes, it was. Madara attained the Sage's Power almost in it's entirety... He had the DNA, he was Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, and he had the power of Senjutsu & plus he absorbed the Shinju Tree.... Kaguya's power wise was ABOVE Hagaromo... But as implied, she was never a warrior, just a princess who became consumed by the Shinju Tree. One, he had one Rinnegan..... His objective at the moment was to get into the Kamui world to retake his Rinnegan, so evasive measures had to be used, he was already damaged, and PLUS HE HAD ALREADY ACHIEVED HIS GOALS. Take the Rinnegan, become the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, & cast IT.
When was it ever implied that her battle ability was significantly diminished because of her intelligence? When?
Itʻs irrelevant if MAdara had one rinnegan, you stated that Madara had both naruto and sasukeʻs powers, yet madara literally states he has those powers in one body and gets massacred by two people who are severely holding back. Madaraʻs objective was to beat naruto and sasuke right there and then, he even stated that, yet when he realized he was getting dismantled, he shifted his objective to getting his other rinnegan to hopefully change the tide. So nope.
He literally WON. And still would've killed Naruto and Sasuke, why in the hell do you think the story had to be retconned so badly as to have Black Zetsu's entire history as Madara's creation and will change... To have him stabbed in the back & then die... Immediately. For a character that had NO worldly business of being there in the first place. Kishi had to write an ending for Madara, and with that whole statement by him that he had NO weaknesses there was nothing else to do but what was already done and have Madara killed off in the most BS fashion.
When in the world did madara win? Is winning getting stabbed in the heart and getting turned into a female bunny? Donʻt make me refute the ridiculously false. Once again, based on what would madara have defeated naruto and sasuke? I keep seeing you post that madara is for some inexplicable reason above kaguya and would have won, but time and time again you give literally zero reasoning for that.
The rest of your argument pretty much proves that your stance is completely agenda ridden and motivated by personal biased as nothing implied that Kishi created kaguya for the sole purpose of killing madara let alone to make it EASIER for naruto and sasuke to beat madara.
Plea... It's definitive that Madara battle wise is far more powerful than Kaguya. It OBVIOUSLY showed through battle, not everything has to be SAID, it's been shown... Kaguya fought with no direction, no real objective, she just KNEW she had to subdue Naruto and Sasuke somehow. Majorly failed, got distracted, and in a quick shot exhausted ALMOST ALL of her Chakra... That's not intelligent in the least. And if you're looking at things OBJECTIVELY then Madara > Kaguya... He actually REALIZED ALL of his goals.
Once again, you assert that madara is for some reason not just stronger but FAR MORE POWERFUL than kaguya, yet you give literally no positive evidence, no logical reasoning to support that assertion.
Kaguya fought with direction, her motivation was to absorb naruto and sasukeʻs chakra, her actions were oriented to attaining that goal, and nothing indicated her intelligence or the way she went about achieving her goals was significantly above or below madaraʻs. If there was some massive intelligence gap between the two, kishi would have given the reader some kind of statement in order for them to take note of that. Not only that, but kaguya was constantly strategizing with black zetsu, the guy who manipulated madara in to doing everything he did in his life. So nope, literally nothing in the manga suggests madara had some kind of significant intelligence gap above kaguya, let alone an intelligence gap that would have allowed him to beat her.
Madara realizing his goals means jack squat, if a fodder makes it a goal to walk a few steps, and he does, does that make him above kaguya?
Objectively, Kaguya is on a completely different level than madara. The manga explicitly states that. Her feats explicitly show that. Portrayal explicitly shows that. The difficulty that naruto and sasuke have against her proves that. All the evidence in the manga says Kaguya is on a completely different level than madara, none of the evidence suggests madara is even on the same level, Kaguya >>> Madara.
no it doesnʻt, her taking advice from Bz shows that she didnʻt know everything he learned since heʻs been around for hundreds of years while sheʻs been sealed.
So yea so she knew nothing she was like a retarded child with super strength
Thatʻs irrelevant. Madara stated that he had both naruto and sasukeʻs powers in one body, yet he got kicked around like a kid, and read what point I was responding to, it wasnʻt yours it was a point from someone else who stated that madara > naruto or sasuke because he has both of their powers which is falsified by madaraʻs quote.
So again she didn't know anything, no type of strategy just clueless like a retarded baby with super strength still not helping any of your "arguments" you should really re read some chapters perhaps buy the viz official translation seems like you're lost guy.
He did, but he was still missing one eye and his Truth seeking balls maybe you should go re read those chapters might even make your argument make sense, as soon as he got his pair of eyes it was a wrap Naruto and sasuke got pushed around and madara casted IT like it was nothing... again I really recommend you re read the chapters and actually read the whole original post, you still talking about shit that has nothing to do with the thread I clearly stated madara with THREE EYES AND TRUTH SEEKING BALLS which he was missing when he got "pushed around" still waiting for somebody to counter my thread with actuall manga facts its like we not reading the same manga smh.
So again she didn't know anything, no type of strategy just clueless like a retarded baby with super strength still not helping any of your "arguments" you should really re read some chapters perhaps buy the viz official translation seems like you're lost guy.
He did, but he was still missing one eye and his Truth seeking balls maybe you should go re read those chapters might even make your argument make sense, as soon as he got his pair of eyes it was a wrap Naruto and sasuke got pushed around and madara casted IT like it was nothing... again I really recommend you re read the chapters and actually read the whole original post, you still talking about shit that has nothing to do with the thread I clearly stated madara with THREE EYES AND TRUTH SEEKING BALLS which he was missing when he got "pushed around" still waiting for somebody to counter my thread with actuall manga facts its like we not reading the same manga smh.
So again she didn't know anything, no type of strategy just clueless like a retarded baby with super strength still not helping any of your "arguments" you should really re read some chapters perhaps buy the viz official translation seems like you're lost guy.
He did, but he was still missing one eye and his Truth seeking balls maybe you should go re read those chapters might even make your argument make sense, as soon as he got his pair of eyes it was a wrap Naruto and sasuke got pushed around and madara casted IT like it was nothing... again I really recommend you re read the chapters and actually read the whole original post, you still talking about shit that has nothing to do with the thread I clearly stated madara with THREE EYES AND TRUTH SEEKING BALLS which he was missing when he got "pushed around" still waiting for somebody to counter my thread with actuall manga facts its like we not reading the same manga smh.
Look, if you arenʻt going to read my posts, then donʻt even bother to respond to them.
Madara with three eyes and truth seeking balls is still vastly inferior to kaguya, the manga makes this clear by verbal hype (chakra on a completely different level, stronger than hagoromo), portrayal (madara coming before kaguya, kaguya having madaraʻs body and almost beating naruto and sasuke with her hair), and feats (dimension swapping, having all of madaraʻs abilities, making a dimension-sized gudoudama, easily reacting to sasukeʻs teleportation, pushing naruto and sasuke incomparably greater level of difficulty than madara did). Then thereʻs the fact that itʻs not just her, it was her and black zetsu both strategizing the entire time about how to deal with naruto and sasuke which blows your ʻmindless kaguyaʻ argument out of the water, and finally there are zero manga statements about kaguya being weaker than madara, let alone significantly weaker to the point that heʻd beat her because of her fighting style.
Unless you have some kind of compelling argument that can pretty much prove if madara and kaguya fought, madara would win, then thereʻs no way madara wins this. And you donʻt, your OP argument is laughable as thatʻs against a naruto and sasuke who were severely holding back and noob at their powers, proven by the stuff that they are forced to pull out against Kaguya throughout the course of the fight. So no, Kaguya stomps madara like the manga pretty much rams down the readerʻs throats, Madara gets stomped by Naruto and Sasuke if both are fighting at full power w/o PIS/CIS.
Look, if you arenʻt going to read my posts, then donʻt even bother to respond to them.
Madara with three eyes and truth seeking balls is still vastly inferior to kaguya, the manga makes this clear by verbal hype (chakra on a completely different level, stronger than hagoromo), portrayal (madara coming before kaguya, kaguya having madaraʻs body and almost beating naruto and sasuke with her hair), and feats (dimension swapping, having all of madaraʻs abilities, making a dimension-sized gudoudama, easily reacting to sasukeʻs teleportation, pushing naruto and sasuke incomparably greater level of difficulty than madara did). Then thereʻs the fact that itʻs not just her, it was her and black zetsu both strategizing the entire time about how to deal with naruto and sasuke which blows your ʻmindless kaguyaʻ argument out of the water, and finally there are zero manga statements about kaguya being weaker than madara, let alone significantly weaker to the point that heʻd beat her because of her fighting style.
Unless you have some kind of compelling argument that can pretty much prove if madara and kaguya fought, madara would win, then thereʻs no way madara wins this. And you donʻt, your OP argument is laughable as thatʻs against a naruto and sasuke who were severely holding back and noob at their powers, proven by the stuff that they are forced to pull out against Kaguya throughout the course of the fight. So no, Kaguya stomps madara like the manga pretty much rams down the readerʻs throats, Madara gets stomped by Naruto and Sasuke if both are fighting at full power w/o PIS/CIS.
bruh this whole thread is about Naruto and sasuke vs Madara you brought in kaguya out of nowhere, if my arguments in the OP are laughable provide me manga scans to prove me wrong which im still waiting for, Naruto and sasuke not beating madara not how they currently are, the only counter we seen so far to the Truth seeking ball shield orb is KAMUI, which neither Naruto or sasuke have, Naruto cant handle limbo because after he used shadow clones they were right back next to madara after he casted IT which sasuke himself states read the scans I posted, its all there bro give me some scans to prove me wrong,
here you see Madara covering himself in a Truth seeking ball and still being able to use the others offensively
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only known counter to truth seeking ball defense is kamui to open it
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Naruto and sasuke have no such thing Madara had the upper hand before getting stabbed by BZ even with out it, Imagine if he woulda had it everything happens for a reason I really believe Naruto and sasuke would had died quick against madara if minato hadn't teleported the truth seeking balls away.
bruh this whole thread is about Naruto and sasuke vs Madara you brought in kaguya out of nowhere, if my arguments in the OP are laughable provide me manga scans to prove me wrong which im still waiting for, Naruto and sasuke not beating madara not how they currently are, the only counter we seen so far to the Truth seeking ball shield orb is KAMUI, which neither Naruto or sasuke have, Naruto cant handle limbo because after he used shadow clones they were right back next to madara after he casted IT which sasuke himself states read the scans I posted, its all there bro give me some scans to prove me wrong,
BSM Narutoʻs normal bijuudama blew open obitoʻs truth seeking ball shield, madaraʻs TSB shields are fodder to current naruto and sasuke.
naruto used a mere 4 shadow clones restricted to pure taijutsu against madaraʻs limbo, and it took madaraʻs limboʻs over a chapter to deal with those four clones. current naruto uses 8 clones w/ rasengans, madaraʻs limbos are fodderized.
naruto w/ flight blitzes madara before he even gets into the sky to use CT just like he blitzed kaguya who you admitted was more powerful than madara before she could even react.
and then thereʻs the entire hype, portrayal and feats that Kaguya has over madara and naruto alone was able to push her back and legit blitz her.
only known counter to truth seeking
Naruto and sasuke have no such thing Madara had the upper hand before getting stabbed by BZ even with out it, Imagine if he woulda had it everything happens for a reason I really believe Naruto and sasuke would had died quick against madara if minato hadn't teleported the truth seeking balls away.
Narutoʻs TSBs steadily got lesser and lesser throughout his fight with kaguya, did that happen for a reason? Madaraʻs TSBs wouldnʻt have done anything for him, obitoʻs TSB and advanced weaponry were defeated by BSM Naruto and senjutsu EMS Sasuke, kishi left those things out because they would have been non-factors in this fight.
And lol, madara didnʻt have the upper hand at any time in his fight with naruto and sasuke,
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came closer to beating naruto and sasuke than madara ever did.
Lanakui8, why are you still debating with those who denied what was actually said in the manga? No matter how they slice it, Kaguya has shown and was stated to be superior to Juudara. All she had to do is use the dimensional shift and leave Madara to die in one of the dimensions.
BSM Narutoʻs normal bijuudama blew open obitoʻs truth seeking ball shield, madaraʻs TSB shields are fodder to current naruto and sasuke.
naruto used a mere 4 shadow clones restricted to pure taijutsu against madaraʻs limbo, and it took madaraʻs limboʻs over a chapter to deal with those four clones. current naruto uses 8 clones w/ rasengans, madaraʻs limbos are fodderized.
naruto w/ flight blitzes madara before he even gets into the sky to use CT just like he blitzed kaguya who you admitted was more powerful than madara before she could even react.
and then thereʻs the entire hype, portrayal and feats that Kaguya has over madara and naruto alone was able to push her back and legit blitz her.
and
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we have BSM Naruto + Perfect Senjutsu susanoo sasuke cutting right through onmyouton shield and sword.
Narutoʻs TSBs steadily got lesser and lesser throughout his fight with kaguya, did that happen for a reason? Madaraʻs TSBs wouldnʻt have done anything for him, obitoʻs TSB and advanced weaponry were defeated by BSM Naruto and senjutsu EMS Sasuke, kishi left those things out because they would have been non-factors in this fight.
And lol, madara didnʻt have the upper hand at any time in his fight with naruto and sasuke,
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came closer to beating naruto and sasuke than madara ever did.
I don't know if its me but it Looks like Obito opened that TSB himself with no damage shown done or nothing
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on the other hand though
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and bsm Naruto and perfect senjutsu susano only went through the sword and shield because as obito explains its a sword of the soul which had the so6p's feelings with in it of course Obito not knowing what he really wanted at the point or in denial was gonna lose to Naruto and sasukes "friendship" way, Obito's heart was not on check
heres obito explaining the sword
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And btw Madara also has Hashirma sage mode, so Naruto is not blitzing him reflexes baby
here you see madara reacting to FTG(teleportation) (lighting speed)
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And Finally being cornered after being pushed back while the villain proceeds to put the whole universe under his control is definitely what I would call madara having the upper hand
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Naruto and Sasuke did not have the upper hand bruh.
Lanakui8, why are you still debating with those who denied what was actually said in the manga? No matter how they slice it, Kaguya has shown and was stated to be superior to Juudara. All she had to do is use the dimensional shift and leave Madara to die in one of the dimensions.
In terms of chakra and raw power kaguya is better than madara
In terms of battle experience and expertise Madara takes this, limbo with TSB and rinnegan wins over kaguya, dimension switch makes no difference against madara because he can fly, the anti gravity one affects kaguya as well as her opponent, TSB counters kaguyas palm attacks and shinra tensei would counter the bone attack, Giant chibaku tensei like he has shown to do multiple of with no sweat takes kaguya away for the victory against her.
kaguya would have no idea of how to deal with madara rinnegan techs. if anything the limbo can tank any damage thrown at him lmao.
you not really saying nothing, manga said what? when? show me the scan? sasuke stated her chakra was on a different level than madara's which is obvious she's the progenitor of chakra and.. that's all he said so..
it is just you, as the panel in between naruto and sasuke clearly show the destroyed fragments of TSB shield that have exposed obitoʻs face. and obitoʻs face would not have been instantly shown after the explosion if no damage had been done, rather we would have seen a complete orb, and then see obitoʻs face after he opens it.
and bsm Naruto and perfect senjutsu susano only went through the sword and shield because as obito explains its a sword of the soul which had the so6p's feelings with in it of course Obito not knowing what he really wanted at the point or in denial was gonna lose to Naruto and sasukes "friendship" way, Obito's heart was not on check
so what? The sword and shield are all made of onmyouton the same substance the TSBs are made of and they were destroyed. The shield especially should be way stronger than the sword and it was destroyed.
Weʻve seen minato and narutoʻs giant rasengan cracked obitoʻs onmyouton, weʻve seen that
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and that
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You need to reread the entire juubi jinchuriki arc, madara and obitoʻs TSBs can be damaged by senjutsu and if a senpou bijuudama can blow up their shield, madaraʻs nor obitoʻs shields are going to stand up to rikudou senjutsu rasenshuriken. They are nonfactors when up against sasuke and narutoʻs nukes.
And btw Madara also has Hashirma sage mode, so Naruto is not blitzing him reflexes baby
here you see madara reacting to FTG(teleportation) (lighting speed)
And Finally being cornered after being pushed back while the villain proceeds to put the whole universe under his control is definitely what I would call madara having the upper hand
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Naruto and Sasuke did not have the upper hand bruh.
They werenʻt cornered or pushed back in the least. Sasuke simply shielded naruto from one of madaraʻs attacks. Madaraʻs attack failed to do anything to them, and they were immediately ready to dismantle him right after, and thatʻs a naruto and sasuke who were severely holding back and were noobs at using their powers.
I also love how you ignored the featwise argument about how naruto fodderizes madaraʻs limbos.
In terms of chakra and raw power kaguya is better than madara
In terms of battle experience and expertise Madara takes this, limbo with TSB and rinnegan wins over kaguya, dimension switch makes no difference against madara because he can fly, the anti gravity one affects kaguya as well as her opponent, TSB counters kaguyas palm attacks and shinra tensei would counter the bone attack, Giant chibaku tensei like he has shown to do multiple of with no sweat takes kaguya away for the victory against her.
why does madara take this with battle experience and expertise? The manga made no indication that madara excelled over kaguya in either area, especially when she has black zetsu whoʻs been around since asura and indra giving her advvice.
TSBs get fodderized by her palm attacks, chakra punches or bone attacks. Kaguya counters madaraʻs shinra tensei with her own more powerful shinra tensei, what does giant chibaku tensei do against kaguya? She just teleports right behind him and sends a bone into his back while heʻs foolishly thinking that sending giant rocks at someone who can bust rikudou senjutsu PS with four punches and teleport is going to do anything.
kaguya would have no idea of how to deal with madara rinnegan techs. if anything the limbo can tank any damage thrown at him lmao.
you not really saying nothing, manga said what? when? show me the scan? sasuke stated her chakra was on a different level than madara's which is obvious she's the progenitor of chakra and.. that's all he said so..
Madara vs Kaguya will never be debatable, kaguya comes out on top 1,000 times out of 1,000 the manga made it explicitly clear sheʻs on a completely different level than he is through statements, feats, hype, portrayal and gave nothing to indicate otherwise.
Madaraʻs rinnegan techniques are fodder to kaguya, she deals with his limbo clones like she dealt with narutoʻs shadow clones except this time she only has to deal with 4 instead of 4,000. All of his other techs like shinra tensei and stuff get sent right back at him with far greater power.
it is just you, as the panel in between naruto and sasuke clearly show the destroyed fragments of TSB shield that have exposed obitoʻs face. and obitoʻs face would not have been instantly shown after the explosion if no damage had been done, rather we would have seen a complete orb, and then see obitoʻs face after he opens it.
.....um so what? mountain vaporizing bijuudama powered up by senjutsu >>> V3 susanoo sword strike or chakra arm slash.
so what? The sword and shield are all made of onmyouton the same substance the TSBs are made of and they were destroyed. The shield especially should be way stronger than the sword and it was destroyed.
Weʻve seen minato and narutoʻs giant rasengan cracked obitoʻs onmyouton, weʻve seen that
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and that
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You need to reread the entire juubi jinchuriki arc, madara and obitoʻs TSBs can be damaged by senjutsu and if a senpou bijuudama can blow up their shield, madaraʻs nor obitoʻs shields are going to stand up to rikudou senjutsu rasenshuriken. They are nonfactors when up against sasuke and narutoʻs nukes.
Madara in no way shape or form reacted to FTG teleportation, he reacted to Minato after he teleported with FTG.
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and heʻs not even
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Sasuke tried multiple times, but he could never blitz kaguya with his S/T even when sheʻs dazed from narutoʻs hits, Naruto on the otherhand wtf
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So no, Madara isnʻt physically faster than Sasuke, isnʻt faster or more reactive than kaguya and gets blitzed even worse than she did by naruto.
They werenʻt cornered or pushed back in the least. Sasuke simply shielded naruto from one of madaraʻs attacks. Madaraʻs attack failed to do anything to them, and they were immediately ready to dismantle him right after, and thatʻs a naruto and sasuke who were severely holding back and were noobs at using their powers.
I also love how you ignored the featwise argument about how naruto fodderizes madaraʻs limbos.
Obito's face was revealed but showed no sign of damage, while it was also said Madara's juubi form was stronger than obito's, whos to say rasenshirunken sage nuke bomb will break through it? theres no solid evidence that says so, and the only way gai even got inside the TSB was because of kamui, He did break through the other side but eight gates is no joke you even heard the man himself complimenting gai on being the best taijutsu user he ever fought.
I just showed you a scan on where madara reacted to the 2nd's HARISHIN(FTG) am I wrong? is the manga wrong? one eyed sage mode madara reacted to harashin, imagine 3 eyed juubin jin shinju tree absorbed Madara; Naruto not blitzing nothing.
you are right, madara did compliment sasuke on his speed aswell but he didn't have to stop it he already had the eye to go to the kamui dimension he had to act fast sakura was about to destroy his other rinnegan. but that don't mean madara getting blitzed again he reacted to harashin he's not gonna get blitzed by anyone lol..
Sasuke was forced to rush to the ground to cover Naruto knowing IT would enslave Naruto thus leaving sasuke by himself which stands no chance against madara. he was forced to save Naruto because he knew he needed him for madara. that's what I call being pushed to a corner. he was forced to do so, because if not he woulda lost the fight, so what do you call that again? and also not to be childish but who pushed who back last? you know the answer to that question I have provided many scans showing madara pushing Naruto and sasuke back without lifting a finger.
rinnegan techs, sage mode, juubi powers, TSB, 3rd eye madara takes this bro, he's Naruto and sasuke put together plus more.
limbo alone would be enough imo, shadow clone was not an affective counter as madara still had multiple limbos before being stabbed in the back. and limbo has been shown to tank any damage thrown at madara including the so6p's chakra techs.
