Minato vs Tobirama *No FTG*

[Great Master Minato]

I don't need to prove a negative. Minato hasn't shown any feat that puts him above Tobirama in those departments, so he isn't above him. That simple. Minato facing superior opponents means nothing when his feats against them were garbage.

-V2 Juubito is overall stronger than V1 Juubito because he's in control, but there is zero evidence that V2 is faster than V1. Not to mention Minato never reacted to V2 Juubito's Shunshin speed, and got his arm cut off the one time he clashed with Juubito. Not a good way to begin proving your point.

-He engaged JJ Madara, and lost his arm. Like I said, this isn't even beginning to prove your point. Minato getting trashed by faster opponents doesn't make him faster than Tobirama.

Unless you think Gaara's sand can keep up with Gai's top speed, then Gai wasn't at top speed. That simple.

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You Can See That Gaara Already Said That His Sand Was Too Slow & Minato Asked Kakashi To Carry His Kunai...I Believe Minato Was The One Who Teleported Kakashi Along With Gaara's Sand Near Madara...So Your Excuse Is Irrelevant...

 

[KidGamer65]

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You Can See That Gaara Already Said That His Sand Was Too Slow & Minato Asked Kakashi To Carry His Kunai...I Believe Minato Was The One Who Teleported Kakashi Along With Gaara's Sand Near Madara...So Your Excuse Is Irrelevant...

Once again, you are wrong.

He said his sand was slower than Madara's attacks, meaning that if Madara attacked Kakashi while on the sand, Gaara wouldn't be able to get Kakashi out of the way, thus Minato gave Kakashi his Kunai so he could teleport to Kakashi and protect him from any of Madara's assaults like he did with Gai. And even if that isn't the reason, even though it obviously is, how in the world would he teleport Kakashi near Madara when:

1. He needs to be touching what he wants to teleport, or his chakra needs to be touching it. Neither conditions were fulfilled, he only had a Kunai on Kakashi.

2. He needs a marking at the area he sends things to, there was clearly no marking near Madara and Gai.

3. Minato warped all the way back to Konoha, and was still there by the time Gaara's sand moved near Gai. How in the world is he going to teleport them when he's not even in the same country?

So no, Minato didn't teleport Kakashi or Gaara. Gaara's sand was keeping up, meaning Gai wasn't going top speed.

 

[Zee U]

Minato's FTG mastery is the only thing he has over Tobirama. Removing the whole technique nullifies any chance for Minato to win this match.

 

[LuckyMan]

Tobirama tagged Juubito 5 times BEFORE he lost his body. Minato has no reaction feat on par with reacting to a Juubi Jins Shunshin. Here is what you and everyone else who uses the ET excuse needs to understand. Whether or not he lost his body is irrelevant. We've seen that his reflexes act fast enough and he moves his hands fast enough to react to and tag a Juubi Jin before getting hit.

Your word isn't cutting it. Minato has no feat that compares.

4 paper bombs on him does not mean 5 separate marks because he could have thrown them all at once with his left hand how he demonstrated 3 pages later then just tagged him with FTG seal with his right hand, which would explain why the seal was on the side of his body it was on. He didn't reach back in his pocket to pull a tag out and place each paper bomb one at a time.

 

[Haizaki]

Lol not to mention Rock Lee was keeping up with Gai's speed Lol...He threw the Kunai in front of a moving Gai Lmaooo. These guys would desperately look for feats...Gaara's sand was keeping up as well..Kidgamer shat on these arguments.

What sense does it make that Gaara's sand was keeping up with Gai's full speed?

Rock could follow his movements to the extent that he threw a kunai in front of a moving Gai? Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

4 paper bombs on him does not mean 5 separate marks because he could have thrown them all at once with his left hand how he demonstrated 3 pages later then just tagged him with FTG seal with his right hand, which would explain why the seal was on the side of his body it was on. He didn't reach back in his pocket to pull a tag out and place each paper bomb one at a time.

How? Paper Bombs aren't going to stick to Juubito unless he puts them there. Throwing them isn't going to cause them to stick to 4 different areas of his body. Nevertheless, tagging him even once is still an impressive feat, better than anything Minato has ever shown.

Lol not to mention Rock Lee was keeping up with Gai's speed Lol...He threw the Kunai in front of a moving Gai Lmaooo. These guys would desperately look for feats...Gaara's sand was keeping up as well..Kidgamer shat on these arguments.

What sense does it make that Gaara's sand was keeping up with Gai's full speed?

Rock could follow his movements to the extent that he threw a kunai in front of a moving Gai? Lol

Lol, right. Anyone objectively reading the manga should know that Gai wasn't going top speed.

 

[Bogard]

He stood still, and didn't move.

He threw a kunai before entering SM = Mobile before entering SM = Instant SM

 

[KidGamer65]

He threw a kunai before entering SM = Mobile before entering SM = Instant SM

He gathered all the required Nature Energy, then threw a Kunai, and then entered Sage Mode. You can't gather Nature Energy while mobile, but he already gathered everything he needed by the time he tossed that Kunai.

Minato outright stating that he can't enter Sage Mode quickly=Minato can't enter Sage Mode quickly. There is no debate on this topic.

 

[Bogard]

He gathered all the required Nature Energy, then threw a Kunai, and then entered Sage Mode. You can't gather Nature Energy while mobile, but he already gathered everything he needed by the time he tossed that Kunai.

Minato outright stating that he can't enter Sage Mode quickly=Minato can't enter Sage Mode quickly. There is no debate on this topic.

No, if you gather natural energy but before kneading the chakra to enter SM, you move even a muscle, all the natural energy you gathered disappear the same instant(Pa said that and we've already seen it happening a lot of times).

Minato said he has problems to knead the chakra. He didn't say however that he can't knead it at all. The amount of time you knead one chakra depends on the amount of natural energy to amass inside your body. So if you take only a small amount of natural energy inside your body, it's faster to knead it and enter SM and it's exactly what i think Minato did there, but because the amount was so small, after a hiraishin+senpou rasengan, it ran out. It's for that reason as well that in a long time run he judged it inconvenient for him

 

[Icelerate]

Tobirama wins mid difficulty at most.

 

[KidGamer65]

No, if you gather natural energy but before kneading the chakra to enter SM, you move even a muscle, all the natural energy you gathered disappear the same instant(Pa said that and we've already seen it happening a lot of times).

Minato said he has problems to knead the chakra. He didn't say however that he can't knead it at all. The amount of time you knead one chakra depends on the amount of natural energy to amass inside your body. So if you take only a small amount of natural energy inside your body, it's faster to knead it and enter SM and it's exactly what i think Minato did there, but because the amount was so small, after a hiraishin+senpou rasengan, it ran out. It's for that reason as well that in a long time run he judged it inconvenient for him

Then I don't know what Kishimoto was doing, because he made it pretty clear that Minato can't gather Nature Energy quickly, when he had Minato himself state that it takes too long to knead the chakra. I know that he can knead it, it'd just take a while. Not instant.

Pretty sure that you have to take in enough to actually be able to enter the mode first. If he takes in any less Nature Energy than he has Spiritual and Physical Energy, then he won't be able to enter Sage Mode due to a lack of that balance.

 

[TheTailedSage]

Isn't Minatos base speed portrayed to be faster than Tobirama?

 

[KidGamer65]

Isn't Minatos base speed portrayed to be faster than Tobirama?

His Shunshin? Yeah. Everything else? No.

 

[TheTailedSage]

His Shunshin? Yeah. Everything else? No.

Oh okay, wasn't sure

 

[Bogard]

Then I don't know what Kishimoto was doing, because he made it pretty clear that Minato can't gather Nature Energy quickly, when he had Minato himself state that it takes too long to knead the chakra. I know that he can knead it, it'd just take a while. Not instant.

Pretty sure that you have to take in enough to actually be able to enter the mode first. If he takes in any less Nature Energy than he has Spiritual and Physical Energy, then he won't be able to enter Sage Mode due to a lack of that balance.

No, Pa never said that or rather you misunderstood his statement. Here is the manga scan:

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It's all about balance. It depends on the spiritual and physical energy you gather to form the chakra. If the physical and spiritual energy you gather for the chakra is small, you only need a respectively small amount of natural energy to enter SM as long as it balances out with the physical and spiritual energy

Isn't Minatos base speed portrayed to be faster than Tobirama?

Portrayal-wise yes. The manga puts Minato and Ay above Tobirama in reaction speed and even Ay was baffled by Minato's striking speed. Same can be said concerning Tobirama and Hiruzen. Though Tobirama has feat advantage over Minato. I don't think however that feat shows better reactions from Tobirama because he pulled that off against an inferior opponent compared to the one Minato faced

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Not much to debate here, Tobirama's reactions are too fast and his hand speed too quick for Minato to lay a finger on him. He outclasses Minato in stamina so at bare minimum he outlasts him.

Not to mention there's all the Jutsu he's not shown.

Good lawd.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Still waiting for you or anyone else to prove that Mindless Juubito is any slower than Juubito in control.


With sound proof backing it.


Except that'd be baseless.


Except there is no proof from your side that he's slower.



Juubito had 1 Hiraishin mark and 4 explosive tags.



Explosive tags aren't going to stick to his body unless Tobirama puts them there. Running past the tags isn't going to cause them to stick to his body.

I love the argument they're using. Inteligence is directly proportional to speed now? Hilarious.

 

[Bogard]

Naruto when taking control of Kyubi's chakra is much faster than Kyubi. It's all about control. When Obito took control of Jubi's chakra, he could move faster because he could use it to better ends than Jubi to the point even EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto were too slow for him and needed a long battle adaptation time just to follow his movements. It's not only in intelligence. Jubito when Obito took control drastically changed in form. You'd to be stupid not to see the difference

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

That's size, not control. No evidence to suggest that speed is increased if you're 'in control'. Look at 4T and 6T Naruto in his respective fights against Orochimaru and Pain with his drastically enhanced speed. Was he in control then? Quite the opposite. Even the Kyuubi encased with PS could keep up with Hashirama to an extent.

Completely baseless. And with the combined chakra of all tailed beasts why in the hell wouldn't Obito be laughably faster than everyone at the time? It's a joke to even try to argue against.

 

[Bogard]

That's size, not control. No evidence to suggest that speed is increased if you're 'in control'. Look at 4T and 6T Naruto in his respective fights against Orochimaru and Pain with his drastically enhanced speed. Was he in control then? Quite the opposite. Even the Kyuubi encased with PS could keep up with Hashirama to an extent.

Completely baseless. And with the combined chakra of all tailed beasts why in the hell wouldn't Obito be laughably faster than everyone at the time? It's a joke to even try to argue against.

The Kyubi in those fights was simply respectively faster than Orochimaru and Pain and even then, they reacted to him quite fine if i remember correctly. Of course control matters. Minato has less chakra Tobirama(well in your opinion at least), but he has better shunshin. Why that? Because he controls the chakra boost the shunshin does to the body better than Tobirama. Same reason why Tobirama has better shunshin than Hashirama despite having inferior chakra to him. Same reason why Obito Jin is faster than Jubito

The only laughable thing is you thinking Kishi drastically changed Jubito's form when Obito took control just for the show