[Discussion] Crocodile vs Magellan

[Punk Hazard]

People forget that Crocodile's best feats where during MF.

He is capable of clashing with Mihawk receiving zero damage. He repelled Akainu and tanked Jozu's brilliant punk surprise attack with little damage. Its safe to say he did not use anywhere near full power against Luffy at Alabasta, or he simply got a lot stronger in jail. I would put MF Crocodile just under Luffy, with Haki, he is probably equal with him.

Regardless I think Megallan wins the first scenario because he is the perfect counter to Crocodile. The second scenario is a toss-up, leaning towards Croc.

How is he gonna get stronger in a jail cell 23/7 with handcuffs robbing him of his powers the entire time.

Crocodile clashed with one blow from Mihawk, that's it. That's only because his hook is made of a gold alloy, so it's extremely strong. You should also take into account Mihawk was aiming for Luffy, so it's not like he was putting 100% of his effort into that swing.

He didn't tank Jozu's hit, Jozu knocked him off of his feet and sent him flying. Granted, it didn't leave significant or lasting injuries, but he didn't tank it either. If Jozu had continued slamming him, Crocodile would have died.

He didn't repel Akainu either, he launched a sneak attack from the ground that cleaved him in half because Akainu's body reflexively turned into magma, a semi-liquid. If Akainu and Crocodile went one on one, face to face, Akainu would plow through him.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

How is he gonna get stronger in a jail cell 23/7 with handcuffs robbing him of his powers the entire time.

Like I said, its either that or he was hit with massive PIS in his fight against Luffy.

Crocodile clashed with one blow from Mihawk, that's it. That's only because his hook is made of a gold alloy, so it's extremely strong. You should also take into account Mihawk was aiming for Luffy, so it's not like he was putting 100% of his effort into that swing.

The bolded is exactly why Mihawk would be putting in near full power, he was aiming to kill Luffy, and Croc intercepted it.

He didn't tank Jozu's hit, Jozu knocked him off of his feet and sent him flying. Granted, it didn't leave significant or lasting injuries, but he didn't tank it either. If Jozu had continued slamming him, Crocodile would have died.

Umm yes he did tank Jozu's hit, he was not knocked out unconscious or killed and could have continued fighting therefore, he tanked the hit. The term tanking means to have sufficient durability and endurance to take a hit and continue fighting afterwards. For example, Doflamingo tanked Luffy's red hawk.

He didn't repel Akainu either, he launched a sneak attack from the ground that cleaved him in half because Akainu's body reflexively turned into magma, a semi-liquid. If Akainu and Crocodile went one on one, face to face, Akainu would plow through him.

Obviously, Akainu would plow through 90% of the characters in the verse, but that does not take away from the feat. I don't remember many characters forcing Akainu to go magma state.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Like I said, its either that or he was hit with massive PIS in his fight against Luffy.



The bolded is exactly why Mihawk would be putting in near full power, he was aiming to kill Luffy, and Croc intercepted it.



Umm yes he did tank Jozu's hit, he was not knocked out unconscious or killed and could have continued fighting therefore, he tanked the hit. The term tanking means to have sufficient durability and endurance to take a hit and continue fighting afterwards. For example, Doflamingo tanked Luffy's red hawk.



Obviously, Akainu would plow through 90% of the characters in the verse, but that does not take away from the feat. I don't remember many characters forcing Akainu to go magma state.

1. Nope, he lost to Luffy due to lack of speed and durability to take that beating. If it took Luffy 100 punches in a row to knock out Crocodile, it'd take the top tiers at MF a few to knock him out. Crocodile just knew to avoid confrontations for too long.

2. The bolded is exactly why he didn't. Why would he use his full strength for someone so far below him? Look at what happened with Daz Bones. The slice he sent for Luffy was deflected by Daz Bones, then Mihawk slashed him with one cut. The fact that Zoro was able to defeat Daz Bones with one cut in Alabasta, and like Crocodile he's not getting stronger in Impel Down, is more than enough proof that Mihawk didn't have to go that far above that flying slash to defeat Daz Bones, the amount of effort he needs to put into defeating Daz Bones is super low since Daz Bones is inferior to Alabasta Zoro, who is way inferior to Mihawk. And it's not like his flying slashes are weaker than his manual slashes, he sent a flying slash for Whitebeard in an attempt to see how much damage he could truly do the world's strongest man. That shows that Mihawk wasn't attacking Luffy with anywhere near any effort until he cut that iceberg, well after Crocodile deflected what can reasonably be assumed to be a weaker blow.

3. Tanking an attack is brushing it off completely. Being tossed back and knocked off-guard isn't tanking an attack. If you were injured, you didn't tank it. An example of tanking an attack is Kuma emerging unharmed from his Ursus Shock, or Kizaru remaining unharmed from Appo's explosion.

4. Akainu wasn't pushed to transforming, his body has been trained to transform reflexively, meaning, regardless of the strength of the attack that hits him, his body will transform. If an attack as weak as Buggy's Muggy Ball hits him, he'll transform automatically, it doesn't mean Buggy has what it takes to "push" Akainu.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

1. Nope, he lost to Luffy due to lack of speed and durability to take that beating. If it took Luffy 100 punches in a row to knock out Crocodile, it'd take the top tiers at MF a few to knock him out. Crocodile just knew to avoid confrontations for too long.

No he did not. He has enough speed to intercept Mihawk and catch Akainu off guard and has enough durability to tank a Momentum Brilliant Punk from Jozu, someone who is near Admiral level with little damage (A little blood, just like Kuzan). He does not lack in either aspect that you mentioned, especially durability.

2. The bolded is exactly why he didn't. Why would he use his full strength for someone so far below him? Look at what happened with Daz Bones. The slice he sent for Luffy was deflected by Daz Bones, then Mihawk slashed him with one cut. The fact that Zoro was able to defeat Daz Bones with one cut in Alabasta, and like Crocodile he's not getting stronger in Impel Down, is more than enough proof that Mihawk didn't have to go that far above that flying slash to defeat Daz Bones, the amount of effort he needs to put into defeating Daz Bones is super low since Daz Bones is inferior to Alabasta Zoro, who is way inferior to Mihawk. And it's not like his flying slashes are weaker than his manual slashes, he sent a flying slash for Whitebeard in an attempt to see how much damage he could truly do the world's strongest man. That shows that Mihawk wasn't attacking Luffy with anywhere near any effort until he cut that iceberg, well after Crocodile deflected what can reasonably be assumed to be a weaker blow.

Fair enough. Though blocking Mihawk's attack with little difficulty in general insanely impressive, and that attack was going to kill, or at least severally injure Luffy.

3. Tanking an attack is brushing it off completely. Being tossed back and knocked off-guard isn't tanking an attack. If you were injured, you didn't tank it. An example of tanking an attack is Kuma emerging unharmed from his Ursus Shock, or Kizaru remaining unharmed from Appo's explosion.

lol no. If you could fight after taking a hit, wether you spit out blood or not, you have tanked a attack.

""Tanking" occurs when the unit is intended to be the one taking damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation."

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at what it means to tank something in gaming, where the term "tanking" originated from to begin with.

To tank something, is to take the attack, and be capable of fighting afterwards.

4. Akainu wasn't pushed to transforming, his body has been trained to transform reflexively, meaning, regardless of the strength of the attack that hits him, his body will transform. If an attack as weak as Buggy's Muggy Ball hits him, he'll transform automatically, it doesn't mean Buggy has what it takes to "push" Akainu.

If the attack is not strong enough to do any damage whatsoever, then he won't go Logia. There have been many instances where the Logia could phase but decide to simply block because the attack is not strong enough to do any sort of damage.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No he did not. He has enough speed to intercept Mihawk and catch Akainu off guard and has enough durability to tank a Momentum Brilliant Punk from Jozu, someone who is near Admiral level with little damage (A little blood, just like Kuzan). He does not lack in either aspect that you mentioned, especially durability.



Fair enough. Though blocking Mihawk's attack with little difficulty in general insanely impressive, and that attack was going to kill, or at least severally injure Luffy.



lol no. If you could fight after taking a hit, wether you spit out blood or not, you have tanked a attack.

""Tanking" occurs when the unit is intended to be the one taking damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation."

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at what it means to tank something in gaming, where the term "tanking" originated from to begin with.

To tank something, is to take the attack, and be capable of fighting afterwards.



If the attack is not strong enough to do any damage whatsoever, then he won't go Logia. There have been many instances where the Logia could phase but decide to simply block because the attack is not strong enough to do any sort of damage.

1. Once again, Mihawk was aiming for Luffy. I've already explained in my second point why Mihawk wouldn't be using much effort for Luffy, so it's not that impressive. And Akainu was stationary, he hadn't started moving yet, and conversing with Jinbei. If Akainu was moving, he wouldn't have got him. Crocodile could barely keep with Alabasta Luffy, he's not getting stronger in prison. Being able to get after being hit with one Brilliant Punk means nothing. Luffy took one punch from Sengoku, is he top tier like him now? If Crocodile kept taking hits like that, he would have died.

2. Not when Mihawk is barely putting in effort.

3. Nope. To tank something means to be able to shrug it off completely. If you were injured, you didn't tank it.

4. Do you not know what reflexively means? Akainu didn't willingly transform when Crocodile's attack hit him, he didn't go "Well, looks like this attack may hurt me, I need to transform", his body did it automatically. It could have been a fodder-level slice, and he still would have transformed because his body does it AUTOMATICALLY.

You want some proof?
In one of the recent chapters, Bartolomeo was able to survive getting blasted with a bunch of cannon balls with no serious injuries.
When Akainu was hit by cannonballs, his body transformed. You tryna tell me something that Bartolomeo can shrug off after a few seconds will push Akainu?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Magellan wins 1st scene

Crocodile wins 2nd scene

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

1. Once again, Mihawk was aiming for Luffy. I've already explained in my second point why Mihawk wouldn't be using much effort for Luffy, so it's not that impressive. And Akainu was stationary, he hadn't started moving yet, and conversing with Jinbei. If Akainu was moving, he wouldn't have got him. Crocodile could barely keep with Alabasta Luffy, he's not getting stronger in prison. Being able to get after being hit with one Brilliant Punk means nothing. Luffy took one punch from Sengoku, is he top tier like him now? If Crocodile kept taking hits like that, he would have died.

Circular reasoning. You can't bring his feats in Alabasta when the argument is that he was hit with PIS in Alabasta. Does not matter if he was stationary dude, point is that Croc was too fast for Akainu to react, even if it was a surprise attack, its still impressive. Well he clearly did get stronger, Jozu's brilliant punk (with momentum) is more powerful then everything Luffy threw at Crocodile in their entire fight at Alabasta, yet he tanked it with relative ease while he couldn't tank all of Luffy's attacks. Luffy's other feats don't put him on the same level as Sengoku though.

2. Not when Mihawk is barely putting in effort.

If its enough effort to cut an entire iceberg in half, its still impressive.

3. Nope. To tank something means to be able to shrug it off completely. If you were injured, you didn't tank it.

You are just acting stubborn now. I showed you what it means to tank something from the very origin of the term (gaming). You have been proven wrong. Concede and move on.

4. Do you not know what reflexively means? Akainu didn't willingly transform when Crocodile's attack hit him, he didn't go "Well, looks like this attack may hurt me, I need to transform", his body did it automatically. It could have been a fodder-level slice, and he still would have transformed because his body does it AUTOMATICALLY.

You want some proof?
In one of the recent chapters, Bartolomeo was able to survive getting blasted with a bunch of cannon balls with no serious injuries.
When Akainu was hit by cannonballs, his body transformed. You tryna tell me something that Bartolomeo can shrug off after a few seconds will push Akainu?

Fair enough.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Circular reasoning. You can't bring his feats in Alabasta when the argument is that he was hit with PIS in Alabasta. Does not matter if he was stationary dude, point is that Croc was too fast for Akainu to react, even if it was a surprise attack, its still impressive. Well he clearly did get stronger, Jozu's brilliant punk (with momentum) is more powerful then everything Luffy threw at Crocodile in their entire fight at Alabasta, yet he tanked it with relative ease while he couldn't tank all of Luffy's attacks. Luffy's other feats don't put him on the same level as Sengoku though.



If its enough effort to cut an entire iceberg in half, its still impressive.



You are just acting stubborn now. I showed you what it means to tank something from the very origin of the term (gaming). You have been proven wrong. Concede and move on.



Fair enough.

I already showed you how prior to slicing the iceberg, Mihawk wasn't putting much effort into hitting Luffy. That's not impressive on Croc's part because he blocked a swing that barely had effort in it.

I already explained how the Akainu thing means nothing because Akainu wasn't even moving or attempting to dodge. It was a sneak attack, nothing more.

He didn't get stronger in jail, that makes no sense.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

I already showed you how prior to slicing the iceberg, Mihawk wasn't putting much effort into hitting Luffy. That's not impressive on Croc's part because he blocked a swing that barely had effort in it.

If the swing 'barely had effort in it' Mihawk would have been using one hand. He was using TWO and he one-shotted Daz Bones with said attack. It had enough effort in it to make it an impressive feat.

He didn't get stronger in jail, that makes no sense.

If you go down that route, then the other option is to accept that Croc was hit with massive PIS in his fight with Luffy. There is no other way about it, his feats during the war FAR outclassed his feats in Alabasta.

 

[Punk Hazard]

If the swing 'barely had effort in it' Mihawk would have been using one hand. He was using TWO and he one-shotted Daz Bones with said attack. It had enough effort in it to make it an impressive feat.



If you go down that route, then the other option is to accept that Croc was hit with massive PIS in his fight with Luffy. There is no other way about it, his feats during the war FAR outclassed his feats in Alabasta.

1. You think the amount of hands he uses matters? He used one hand for the slash meant for WB.

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2. Except he was. Luffy only won that third fight because Robin gave him an antidote and he got lucky several times.

 

[Bogard]

If the swing 'barely had effort in it' Mihawk would have been using one hand. He was using TWO and he one-shotted Daz Bones with said attack. It had enough effort in it to make it an impressive feat.

Mihawk is the one who blocked Crocodile not the contrary. No wonder Crocodile is that overrated on this section if you guys give him feats he never pulled off

OT: Magellan low diffs both scenarios

 

[ultraChalk]

This is what I'm talking about by Crocodile being overrated.

Magellan takes this, he was in charge of keeping his ass in check. He was literally getting paid to do so.

In the desert, still Magellan but high diff.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Mihawk is the one who blocked Crocodile not the contrary. No wonder Crocodile is that overrated on this section if you guys give him feats he never pulled off

Wrong. Re-read.

1. You think the amount of hands he uses matters? He used one hand for the slash meant for WB.

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It does matter actually. Using one hand gives way more mobility, while using two hands doubles the strength of a slash. This is basic Swordsmenship knowledge.

2. Except he was. Luffy only won that third fight because Robin gave him an antidote and he got lucky several times.

Ummmm exactly?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Wrong. Re-read.



It does matter actually. Using one hand gives way more mobility, while using two hands doubles the strength of a slash. This is basic Swordsmenship knowledge.



Ummmm exactly?

Not really. I already proved Mihawk wasn't using that much effort for Luffy, which you conceded to, and he was using two hands then. He's gonna use less effort on Whitebeard than he would for Luffy? Quit joking.

And by he was, I mean he was plot nerfed during his fight with Luffy, in that Luffy got lucky and Robin cured him. But Luffy was still able to deal enough damage to Crocodile and outpace him. Crocodile didn't get any stronger while in Impel Down, but he was only slight above Alabasta Luffy.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Not really. I already proved Mihawk wasn't using that much effort for Luffy, which you conceded to, and he was using two hands then. He's gonna use less effort on Whitebeard than he would for Luffy? Quit joking.

I told you, using two hands vastly increases the power of a slash. His best feat was with using two hands.

And by he was, I mean he was plot nerfed during his fight with Luffy, in that Luffy got lucky and Robin cured him. But Luffy was still able to deal enough damage to Crocodile and outpace him. Crocodile didn't get any stronger while in Impel Down, but he was only slight above Alabasta Luffy.

Yes, he was plot nerfed in his fight with Luffy, exactly. However, his durability got nerfed as well, as Full Charge Brilliant Punk to the face from Jozu himself > All of Alabasta Luffy base punches put together. His speed was also nerfed.

The Croc clashed with the likes of Mihawk, DD and even Akainu. There is no way in hell that he is only 'slightly above Alabasta Luffy'.

Honestly, lets just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I told you, using two hands vastly increases the power of a slash. His best feat was with using two hands.



Yes, he was plot nerfed in his fight with Luffy, exactly. However, his durability got nerfed as well, as Full Charge Brilliant Punk to the face from Jozu himself > All of Alabasta Luffy base punches put together. His speed was also nerfed.

The Croc clashed with the likes of Mihawk, DD and even Akainu. There is no way in hell that he is only 'slightly above Alabasta Luffy'.

Yup. Mihawk put more effort into a slash against Luffy, which didn't have a lot of effort as we've already established, than he did in the slash meant to see the distance between him and Whitebeard, which Jozu felt the need to stop. Luffy>Whitebeard I guess.

And no, that's not how it works. Take this analogy for instance. You have a big rock(Crocodile) that's pretty durable, a fairly strong hammer(Luffy), and a bigger, much stronger hammer(Jozu). You hit the rock with the smaller, weaker hammer, and it only knocks off a piece in the corner. You hit the rock enough times with the hammer, and it'd eventually break into small pieces, it'd just take a long time and a lot of effort. You take the much bigger, much stronger hammer and hit the rock, it splits in half completely. You hit a few more times, and you break it into pieces like you did with the smaller hammer, it just took much less time, and much less effort.

It's the same with Crocodile and his Luffy/Jozu situation. Luffy was able to knock Crocodile because he hit him the ridiculous amount of times he needed to, while Jozu only got one hit out of the few he needed in. If Alabasta Luffy needed 400 punches to knock out Crocodile, then Jozu may have needed just four.

You're in some serious need of re-reading MF.
Mihawk-Crocodile deflected one weak slash from Mihawk.
Doflamingo-Crocodile got his swing from his hook blocked by Doflamingo, he didn't do a single impressive thing against Doffy
Jozu-Sent Crocodile flying with one blow and would have murdered him with a few more hits
Akainu-Crocodile got one sneak attack in and it did no more damage to him than fodder cannon balls that even Bartolomeo could shrug off did.

Your "feats" aren't feats at all.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Yup. Mihawk put more effort into a slash against Luffy, which didn't have a lot of effort as we've already established, than he did in the slash meant to see the distance between him and Whitebeard, which Jozu felt the need to stop. Luffy>Whitebeard I guess.

There are many weird decisions in the manga. Does not change the fact that two hands > one hand.

And no, that's not how it works. Take this analogy for instance. You have a big rock(Crocodile) that's pretty durable, a fairly strong hammer(Luffy), and a bigger, much stronger hammer(Jozu). You hit the rock with the smaller, weaker hammer, and it only knocks off a piece in the corner. You hit the rock enough times with the hammer, and it'd eventually break into small pieces, it'd just take a long time and a lot of effort. You take the much bigger, much stronger hammer and hit the rock, it splits in half completely. You hit a few more times, and you break it into pieces like you did with the smaller hammer, it just took much less time, and much less effort.

It's the same with Crocodile and his Luffy/Jozu situation. Luffy was able to knock Crocodile because he hit him the ridiculous amount of times he needed to, while Jozu only got one hit out of the few he needed in. If Alabasta Luffy needed 400 punches to knock out Crocodile, then Jozu may have needed just four.

Yet again, I say full power Brilliant Punk to the face > All of Luffy's hits on Croc put together. Not to mention that the brilliant punk did not even do all that much damage.

You're in some serious need of re-reading MF.
Mihawk-Crocodile deflected one weak slash from Mihawk.
Doflamingo-Crocodile got his swing from his hook blocked by Doflamingo, he didn't do a single impressive thing against Doffy
Jozu-Sent Crocodile flying with one blow and would have murdered him with a few more hits
Akainu-Crocodile got one sneak attack in and it did no more damage to him than fodder cannon balls that even Bartolomeo could shrug off did.

Your "feats" aren't feats at all.

Quit saying weak, if its a slash that can kill Luffy, its not weak. A 'weak' slash from Mihawk can be current Zoro's strongest slash. Akainu's basic punch intended for Luffy one-shotted Ace, its one of his weakest attacks, does that mean the attack was weak?

Crocodile evenly clashed with DD's kick, a kick which plowed Luffy in the most recent chapter. Needless to say that Croc was unharmed after his fight with DD. Meanwhile, DD is casually beating the shit out of Current Luffy and Law, in a fairly short period of time.

Sure, Jozu could have beat Croc with more punches, but tanking just one is a amazing feat initself.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

There are many weird decisions in the manga. Does not change the fact that two hands > one hand.



Yet again, I say full power Brilliant Punk to the face > All of Luffy's hits on Croc put together. Not to mention that the brilliant punk did not even do all that much damage.



Quit saying weak, if its a slash that can kill Luffy, its not weak. A 'weak' slash from Mihawk can be current Zoro's strongest slash. Akainu's basic punch intended for Luffy one-shotted Ace, its one of his weakest attacks, does that mean the attack was weak?

Crocodile evenly clashed with DD's kick, a kick which plowed Luffy in the most recent chapter. Needless to say that Croc was unharmed after his fight with DD. Meanwhile, DD is casually beating the shit out of Current Luffy and Law, in a fairly short period of time.

Sure, Jozu could have beat Croc with more punches, but tanking just one is a amazing feat initself.

DD used his legs to block an attack from Crocodile, not to attack him.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

DD used his legs to block an attack from Crocodile, not to attack him.

They attacked each other, that was not his blocking stance.

 

[Punk Hazard]

They attacked each other, that was not his blocking stance.

No, Crocodile launched himself at Doflamingo, and Doflamingo blocked with his leg.

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Doflamingo is standing in the exact same spot.

The anime makes it even more clear.
[video=youtube;qhub3eIQYtA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhub3eIQYtA[/video]