Yet another beheading. What's the world going to do about ISIS?

[Gokuy]

(CNN) -- ISIS beheaded another Westerner, a British aid worker. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry courted Middle Eastern leaders to join a coalition in the fight against the Islamist militants. And U.S. planes aimed at ISIS flighters near Iraq's capital.
As world leaders struggled Monday to come up with strategies against ISIS just days after a high-profile beheading by the Islamist militants, the U.S. military targeted an ISIS position near Baghdad.
An airstrike southwest of the city appears to be the closest the U.S. airstrikes have come to the Iraqi capital since the start of the campaign against the Islamist militants, a senior U.S. military official told CNN.
A statement from U.S. Central Command described the action as "the first strike taken as part of our expanded efforts beyond protecting our own people and humanitarian missions to hit (ISIS) targets as Iraqi forces go on offense, as outlined in the President's speech last Wednesday."
Six ISIS vehicles near Sinjar, Iraq, and an ISIS "fighting position" that was firing on Iraqi security forces southwest of Baghad were destroyed, the statement said. All aircraft left the strike areas safely, it added.
Anti-ISIS coalition continues to develop More clues in new ISIS execution video Major problems in the fight against ISIS
Meanwhile, more than two dozen nations, the Arab League, the European Union and United Nations met in the French capital, calling ISIS a threat to the international community and agreeing to "ensure that the culprits are brought to justice."
In a statement at the conference's conclusion, the French government said the participants had agreed to take on ISIS "by any means necessary, including appropriate military assistance, in line with the needs expressed by the Iraqi authorities, in accordance with international law and without jeopardizing civilian security."
French President François Hollande, who hosted the conference with his Iraqi counterpart, Fuad Masum, said there was "no time to lose" in international efforts against ISIS.
Meanwhile, the leader of Iraq's Kurdistan region asked for intensified U.S. airstrikes, saying he would welcome foreign fighters and urging Iran and the United States to set aside their differences to fight ISIS.
Latest beheading
ISIS, which calls itself the Islamic State, underlined its barbaric credentials over the weekend -- posting a video showing the beheading of British aid worker David Haines and threatening the life of another hostage from the United Kingdom.
It was the third videotaped killing of a Western hostage released in less than a month.
The latest killing, ISIS said, was "a message to the allies of America" -- a direct challenge to the United States.
President Barack Obama announced last week that the United States would lead "a broad coalition to roll back this terrorist threat" and that U.S. airstrikes against ISIS would expand from Iraq into Syria.
The United States has said nearly 40 nations have agreed to contribute to the fight against ISIS, which has seized control of large areas of northern Iraq and Syria. But it remains unclear exactly which countries are on that list and what roles they'll play.
Britain won't 'shirk our responsibility'
Britain's role in the coalition is in particular focus after the killing of Haines, who was abducted last year near a Syrian refugee camp where he was working.
Haines' death "will not lead Britain to shirk our responsibility" to work with allies to take on ISIS, British Prime Minister David Cameron said Sunday. Instead, he said, "it must strengthen our resolve."
Cameron pledged to work with the United States to support its "direct military action." He also emphasized that "this is not about British troops on the ground."
Killer identified?
W.H.: Must strike while iron is hot Kerry building anti-ISIS coalition Who is the ISIS executioner?
Cameron has vowed to "hunt down those responsible" for Haines' killing and "bring them to justice, no matter how long it takes."
The situation is made all the more difficult by the fact that the man who appears in the video beheading Haines -- believed to be the same man previously shown killing American journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff -- has a London accent.
Cameron knows the identity of the killer, CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen has reported, citing unidentified British officials. But authorities aren't making it public for "operational reasons," Bergen writes in a commentary for CNN.
Cameron knows that the man in the video holds at least two other American citizens as well as other hostages from additional Western countries, and that he is part of a larger group of British hostage-takers working for ISIS, Bergen reports.
"It is a real crisis for Cameron, and it underlines a sobering fact: British citizens have volunteered to go to Syria to fight at 25 times the rate that Americans have done so, when adjusted for population size," he writes.
Building a coalition
Kerry, who attended the Paris conference Monday, closed out a Middle Eastern trip on Saturday, seeking to win support for the U.S.-led anti-ISIS coalition.
In an interview that aired Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation," Kerry said some nations "are clearly prepared to take action in the air alongside the United States and to do airstrikes, if that's what they're called on to do," but he did not get more specific.
Britain has agreed to help arm Kurdish forces, support the Iraqi government, keep supplying humanitarian help and coordinate with the United Nations to battle ISIS.
France, meanwhile, began reconnaissance flights over Iraq, the French Defense Ministry said. Two Rafale air force planes took off from a base in the United Arab Emirates, it said.
Some nations have also offered to commit ground troops, but "we are not looking for that at this moment anyway," Kerry said in the CBS interview.
Iraqi Kurdistan's President Masoud Barzani -- whose Peshmerga forces have taken a significant role in battling ISIS -- told CNN's Anna Coren on Monday that he has not asked for foreign fighters but would welcome them.
He also called on the United States to step up airstrikes and said Iran should play a role in battling ISIS. But that can only happen, he said, if Iran and the United States "put their differences aside."
Iran has rejected any cooperation with the United States to combat ISIS in Iraq, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei said on his Twitter account Monday. "I rejected (the) US offer to Iran about ISIS, because US has corrupted its hands in this issue," the statement read.
Khamanei accused the United States of planning to use military action against ISIS to "dominate the region."
Analyst: Obama 'revealed too much'
Will U.S. fight ISIS on the ground? Kerry: Countries prepared to fight ISIS Brother: 'He tried to be a better man'
A leading Iraqi expert on ISIS told CNN that Obama may already have revealed more about U.S. plans than he should have to the militant group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
"The mistake was announcing too much of the strategy, and this was a free gift to al-Baghdadi to prepare and counter what has been revealed," said Hisham al-Hashimi, who has studied jihadist groups and their evolution in Iraq over the past decade.
He suggested ISIS has already begun to take defensive measures, including moving weapons and ammunition into depots and putting elite fighters among civilian populations to avoid airstrikes.
The anti-ISIS alliance that the United States is putting together risks driving more terrorist organizations to join forces with al-Baghdadi's group in what they perceive as a "crusader" war against Muslims, al-Hashimi said.
'Fighting ideology with ideology'
Influential Middle Eastern countries such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia may be crucial in countering that view.
"Help is needed from Saudi and Egyptian religious scholars in fighting ideology with ideology," al-Hashimi said. "This is key to extracting ISIS from the roots."
Last week, Egypt's grand mufti reportedly condemned ISIS, saying that its actions are not in line with Islam.
A member of the Saudi royal family told CNN on Monday that he didn't think his country would participate in military operations but would be pleased to see ISIS vanquished in response to its heinous violence.
"I think that with each killing that takes place, unfortunately, every time hopefully the world community will be more united in really eradicating this disease that's really infecting the whole Middle Eastern region and inevitably will be contagious to other countries in the world," Prince Alwaleed bin Talal said.
If Obama sticks to the goal of defeating the Islamist extremists, the move will help restore Saudi Arabia's trust in Washington, which has been shaken over the crisis in Syria, he said.
Al-Hashimi said he is concerned by the exclusion of Iran -- arguably the most influential player in Iraq -- from the coalition.
"They sidelined Iran, and that is a very big mistake because Iran controls the Shiite militias in Iraq and these militias could sabotage military operations when it comes to logistical support or can threaten the safety of American advisers and trainers," he said.
How many more Western captives is ISIS holding?

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ww3 .

 

[Remion18]

Not my concern.

 

[Fex]

Not my concern.

Wow,straight to the point.

 

[BlazeRelease]

I saw this on the news today while I was at work.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

I'm so tired of ISIS and their bullshit, this isn't 1400 BC you don't conquer like this.

 

[Gokuy]

does anybody have the raw video?

 

[llxFLaMe]

End times...

 

[le sarkozy faec]

the ISIS was created by the US and its allies to justify armed intervention in syria and iran. we'll see ISIS' collapse when iran and syria fall.

 

[sharingan67]

the ISIS was created by the US and its allies to justify armed intervention in syria and iran. we'll see ISIS' collapse when iran and syria fall.

ISIS is the final product of what USA did the 10+ last years.

Wherever they put their feet they steal, kill and destroy everything to force their ideologies, capitalism and demoncracy.

It's always the same garbage when a foreign is executed and filmed by some random masked guy all the medias talking for weeks and people go into extasy without even thinking about the reasons or questionning these subbit thing that can only be on the interrest of the Americano-zionists .

On the other side USA and its allies drop bombs everydays turning hundreds of people into kefta because YES USA has the right because they represent the HOLY PEACE on earth,they are modern and civilized, droping bombs is not barbaric, at least we don't need clean later and nobody will care.They are not barbaric, they never kill random innocents, they never droped 2 nukes and made thousands of innocents in few seconds it's all fairy tails USA is the HOLY PEACE.

Peace is impossible as soon as the parasites USA and the west force their ideologies and system on others.As soon as they act like a cancer with their 1000+ military bases around the world to kill humans they'll endlessly continu to destroy everything from culture to human life because human life has no values for them, it arranges them they want reduce the world population.

Their imperialism has placed the equivalent of five tons of explosives on the head of every person on the planet.

 

[Demonic.]

ISIS is the final product of what USA did the 10+ last years.

Wherever they put their feet they steal, kill and destroy everything to force their ideologies, capitalism and democracy.

It's always the same garbage when a foreign is executed and filmed by some random masked guy all the medias talking for weeks and people go into extasy without even thinking about the reasons or questionning these subbit thing that can only be on the interrest of the Americano-zionists .

On the other side USA and its allies drop bombs everydays turning hundreds of people into kefta because YES USA has the right because they represent the Holy peace on earth,they are modern and civilized, droping bombs is not barbaric, at least we don't need clean later and nobody will care.They are not barbaric, they never kill random innocents, they never droped 2 nukes and made thousands of innocents in few seconds it's all fairy tails USA is the HOLY PEACE.

Peace is impossible as soon as the parasites USA and the west force their ideologies and system on others.As soon as they act like a cancer with their 1000+ military bases around the world to kill humans they'll endlessly continy destroys everything from culture to human life.

Their imperialism has placed the equivalent of five tons of explosives on the head of every person on the planet.

This coming from the guy whose avatar is the fatass with a dumb haircut who is oppressing his own country and had his own uncle executed XD

 

[sharingan67]

This coming from the guy whose avatar is the fatass with a dumb haircut who is oppressing his own country and had his own uncle executed XD

Indeed but this fatass is an other problem...

 

[Scumbag]

How about we stop sending our journalists over there like lambs to slaughter?

 

[Aim64C]

the ISIS was created by the US and its allies to justify armed intervention in syria and iran. we'll see ISIS' collapse when iran and syria fall.

This is a failure to understand Islam.

You know. The ISLAMIC State.

Islam is not just a religion. It is not a spiritual belief in the western sense of spiritual beliefs. It is a government structure based on the strict doctrine of a 7th century warlord who began his career in Mecca before he gained an army in Medina. From there, he and his followers conquered as far west as East as Pakistan, as far south as North Africa, and as far North as what would become Chechnya.

Iraq used to be Jewish and Christian. So did Turkey. Persia was its own entity. Syria was Christian.

September 11, 1683 - for some 200 years, the Turks had been wailing themselves against the city of Vienna. Mustafa, who was celebrated for his campaign against the Serbian rebellions against the Ottoman Empire, was leading an army of 80,000 strong against the city. Mines were being dug under the city defenses and it was certain that the city would fall.

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"It was then, at the last possible moment on the evening of September 11th, that Jan Sobieski arrived at a hill north of the city, leading a force of 40,000 Poles and their German and Austrian allies. The battle began soon afterwards, in the early morning hours of September 12th."

The army broke. Mustafa's forces led a largely disorganized retreat, and Mustafa would later be executed for his failure.

It was this day that marked the decline of Islam. The Turks lost territory, Spain was eventually reclaimed. It was here that Islam began to decline.

It was no coincidence that, 13 years ago, the attacks on the World Trade Center were planned to take place on this day.

What was the goal of Al Qaeda? To form an Islamic Caliphate.

Quoting The Great Heresies by Hilaire Belloc (British historian):

". . . It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent. The suggestion that Islam may re-arise sounds fantastic - but this is only because men are always powerfully affected by the immediate past: - one might say that they are blinded by it. But not so very long ago, less than a hundred years before the Declaration of Independence . . . Vienna was almost taken and only saved by the Christian army under the command of the King of Poland on a date that ought to be among the most famous in history -- September 11, 1683."

That was published in 1938

It borders on the prophetic.

There is no mistake that the makings of ISIS have always existed within Islam. ISIS is precisely what Islam is.

ISIS is the final product of what USA did the 10+ last years.

ISIS is what was bound to happen, eventually.

Although, yes, some short-sighted decisions made by my country's policy makers allowed this particular group to come to power. I am even suspicious that our president's administration is deliberately finding ways of arming this group so that they may continue to gain power in the region. A couple mistakes is just foolishness. A few is incompetence. This many is deviousness in my book; he and all of his cabinet as well as appointed officials should be arrested on suspicion of treason and put on trial for such.

Forget impeachment. That ship set sail within the first two months of his taking office. We're so far past that it's not even funny.

But it does go back farther than that. The creation of the 'petro-dollar' has given our nation's military a set of interests and responsibilities that many Americans would disagree with if they were properly educated on the way in which this system works. This is also, currently, landing us in hot water with Russia, right now, as Putin is trying to force the issue of nations abandoning the 'petro-dollar' - or, more properly, to accept other forms of payment for oil (aside from treasury bonds). The fact that we are printing the dollar into oblivion doesn't help, either - everyone with an understanding of math and basic concepts of economics knows it is going to end badly - it's just a question of when and under the influence of what.

Wherever they put their feet they steal, kill and destroy everything to force their ideologies, capitalism and demoncracy.

Looting by our military is not completely unheard of - but it is prosecuted when discovered. Generally speaking, soldiers are out buying things from the locals not five minutes after the bullets stop flying. Americans, coming from the ideology of a free market (even if we are not one), tend to believe that all goods and services come at a respectable exchange. The sight of someone stealing from another, particularly those who have little to begin with, tends to provoke violence towards the thief from most Americans - particularly those from a police/defense background (like those in the military).

Further - our nation has gone to ridiculous extremes to -not- appear to be the good guy.

I served with people who were in Iraq (was never there, myself). One of the things we did was receive a bunch of donated clothing from back in the States. Some of it was even purchased by the U.S. government in the form of aid spending. It would be unpacked by our soldiers and re-packed into Iraqi government boxes before it would be given to their soldiers to distribute.

Unfortunately - the soldiers generally took anything of value and our soldiers were officially forbidden from intervening. It was actually 'policy' that an Iraqi soldier could see something he wanted - even if it was in the hands of a citizen - and simply walk up and take it from them (at least as far as the aid supplies went).

One day, one of our guys who was assigned to oversee some of this simply couldn't take it, anymore. A woman nearly dressed in rags and her daughter were looking through clothes when an Iraqi soldier came up and started to take it from them. He flipped shit and dressed down the Iraqi soldier on the spot, took the clothes away from him, and handed them back to the lady and her daughter. He was almost certain it would end up causing some kind of international incident and he would be sent to Mast (NJP) - but nothing came of it.

Now - that is one person's anecdote of an anecdote - and I doubt it will change your mind.

Do we kill? Yes - that's what soldiers do when they are sent in and told to get rid of problems. That's what we're trained to do - break shit.

-SHOULD- we be going into many of these areas?

That's a difficult question. While I believe the U.S. is full of people who are fundamentally good and who desire nothing more than to extend that goodness to other nations - to deliver them from oppression and from threat of war; the fact is that we usually have no ****ing clue how to go about doing that.

Americans have a misplaced belief in democracy. Due to failures of public education, Americans believe it is the process of 'choosing our leader' that has led to the relative peace within our nation and to our economic success. Thus, they are horribly confused when an election is held in another nation and, a few years later, it is right back to where it was when we sent our military in to stop the violence.

They don't understand that what has produced the peace and prosperity that our nation enjoys is the concept of limited government - it is the idea that the government does not have infinite power - that groups of people cannot use the ballot box to oppress others because the government is expressly forbidden the powers most frequently used to oppress others. That creates an atmosphere of relative security where social tensions can be relaxed. It doesn't matter what the guy next door is doing - he has no authority and no ability to interrupt your foray into welding. If it is a trade you wish to practice - no one can tell you that you can't learn it, no one can tell you that you must pay ludicrous amounts of money to do business (and as such - no one has the power to control what that fee is or to ignore violators of their own ethnicity) - we had a genuinely free system where you were only limited by your own ability and the simple law that you couldn't harm/extort others.

Of course - we've lost that concept, ourselves, and it is why we are sprinting straight for a civil war with most people not having a clue that it's coming.

It's always the same garbage when a foreign is executed and filmed by some random masked guy all the medias talking for weeks and people go into extasy without even thinking about the reasons or questionning these subbit thing that can only be on the interrest of the Americano-zionists .

Hmm... that word, again... 'zionists.'

Interesting.

Most interesting.

Please, tell me what you and your friends know of these "Zionists."

On the other side USA and its allies drop bombs everydays turning hundreds of people into kefta because YES USA has the right because they represent the HOLY PEACE on earth,they are modern and civilized, droping bombs is not barbaric, at least we don't need clean later and nobody will care.They are not barbaric, they never kill random innocents, they never droped 2 nukes and made thousands of innocents in few seconds it's all fairy tails USA is the HOLY PEACE.

You see, this is where the discussion devolves into: "Who blew who up first."

It's really pretty simple. We don't even ask that you all disarm (well, others do - but I'm not a believer in disarmament). Just stop shooting mortars and rockets at everyone, and bombs will stop falling on your head. It's not a complicated concept.

We've tried. Others have tried. They've poured incalculable resources into developing infrastructure and industry that would allow people to live productive and fulfilled lives. But, no. It's like a one-track mind of "kill the zionists!"

Granted, our retarded governments could stop sending food to y'all - maybe then you would have to think a little bit more about where dinner is going to come from and not have so much time to think about how to kill the people feeding you... but neither side of that is really exercising common sense.

Peace is impossible as soon as the parasites USA and the west force their ideologies and system on others.As soon as they act like a cancer with their 1000+ military bases around the world to kill humans they'll endlessly continu to destroy everything from culture to human life because human life has no values for them, it arranges them they want reduce the world population.

You're just jealous because we figured out how to be productive enough to build an atomic bomb and you guys are still trying to wrap your minds around cordite before giving up and using the old soviet artillery shells to blow up the Shia delegation.

Oh yeah. That's right. You all almost forgot about the Russians, didn't you?

Yeah - I don't know why we are trying to make enemies with them at this point in time. Austria might be the only nation to be considered a greater natural enemy of Islam than Russia is.

Of course - if we -wanted- to reduce the human population - we could always re-introduce smallpox. The areas that can afford nourishment and medical care will do just fine if they know to 'brace' for it. The areas that can't will be virtually annihilated in less than two years' time.

Or, you know - it is always cheaper to detonate nuclear weapons than it is to properly dispose of them. We could just do that.

Their imperialism has placed the equivalent of five tons of explosives on the head of every person on the planet.

Compared to the imperialism that places a blade on every throat?

Japan.

Korea.

Germany.

These three nations were 'occupied' by our nation. Now they are dominant, independent economic powers.

It was the attempt to be appeasers when we occupied Iraq and Afghanistan that led to the failure we see, today. We did not establish nations of laws and we did not enforce the principles of limited government. Allowing the soldiers of a nation to steal from its own people as a general policy matter is just one small part of how fundamentally flawed our policies were.

We were not putting a stop to the very things that were creating a culture of corruption and distrust.

 

[Conspirator.]

I was chatting with my dad over dinner the other day and we touched upon the subject of Islamic terrorism.(he likes to talk about global issues.) Anyways I told my dad "These terrorists are not real muslims. They simply abuse their religion and are in the minority." My father disagreed. He said something like "That is incorrect. These terrorists are preaching Islam in it's purest form. They are the real muslims. The nice muslims are not practising it properly." That made no sense to me.

 

[Xlad]

Wow. No idea what to say to this.

 

[Sjhsgjhsgjshjshjsh]

Disgusting Cant wait for the day ISIS are killed

I was chatting with my dad over dinner the other day and we touched upon the subject of Islamic terrorism.(he likes to talk about global issues.) Anyways I told my dad "These terrorists are not real muslims. They simply abuse their religion and are in the minority." My father disagreed. He said something like "That is incorrect. These terrorists are preaching Islam in it's purest form. They are the real muslims. The nice muslims are not practising it properly." That made no sense to me.

No offence ,but your father got it wrong .
Real islam is only in quran and suna (the prophet Hadith)
Those "muslims" doesn't follow quran where its forbidden to kill innocent people so whatever they come up with its not from real islam .

 

[Avani]

I was chatting with my dad over dinner the other day and we touched upon the subject of Islamic terrorism.(he likes to talk about global issues.) Anyways I told my dad "These terrorists are not real muslims. They simply abuse their religion and are in the minority." My father disagreed. He said something like "That is incorrect. These terrorists are preaching Islam in it's purest form. They are the real muslims. The nice muslims are not practising it properly." That made no sense to me.

That's a funny perspective but it is complicated issue. Though I disagree with him, I find that " they are not real Hindu/Muslim/Christian/Pastafarian" argument, a cop out.

Is there such a thing as real and fake Muslim? If so what are the real Muslims going to do about the fake/misguided ones? For these "not real" ones claim to be practicing Muslims. How long before we will get to see the results of their efforts if they are trying to deal with such people who smear their name and religion with false interpretation? Can they handle them? Are they willing to take help of other non- Muslims to deal with these " fake Muslims?

There are a lot of question we like to ignore like a pink elephant in the room for keeping peace but it shouldn't be this one sided as to mislead or divert attention from a serious issue.

There are 73 accepted sects in Islam. So obviously not everyone interprets every religious verse or its teachings in the same way. Everyone can say others are not real ones. People following a belief may see it differently but others judge on the basis of the end results. They make comments based on how they or the people they care about are/were affected by it- did they have to suffer discrimination on the basis of religion, were forced to convert, or go through slavery or blood shed, or suffer other demeaning or negative situations.

Are there people who are supporting extremists- yes there are. Do all of them support it- of course not. Do the ones who do not support such behaviour, do something to discourage such extremists or they are only concerned with internet image? I would like to believe that the later is not true and that the moderate ones do their best to keep the extremists among them in check or everyone is screwed.

As for ISIS, they kidnapped 40 Sikhs in June this year who were working for a Turkish construction company in Iraq. I cannot imagine what their families are going through everyday. Talking about innocents..

 

[The Dreamer]

This is a failure to understand Islam.

You know. The ISLAMIC State.

Islam is not just a religion. It is not a spiritual belief in the western sense of spiritual beliefs. It is a government structure based on the strict doctrine of a 7th century warlord who began his career in Mecca before he gained an army in Medina. From there, he and his followers conquered as far west as East as Pakistan, as far south as North Africa, and as far North as what would become Chechnya.

Iraq used to be Jewish and Christian. So did Turkey. Persia was its own entity. Syria was Christian.

September 11, 1683 - for some 200 years, the Turks had been wailing themselves against the city of Vienna. Mustafa, who was celebrated for his campaign against the Serbian rebellions against the Ottoman Empire, was leading an army of 80,000 strong against the city. Mines were being dug under the city defenses and it was certain that the city would fall.

You must be registered for see links

"It was then, at the last possible moment on the evening of September 11th, that Jan Sobieski arrived at a hill north of the city, leading a force of 40,000 Poles and their German and Austrian allies. The battle began soon afterwards, in the early morning hours of September 12th."

The army broke. Mustafa's forces led a largely disorganized retreat, and Mustafa would later be executed for his failure.

It was this day that marked the decline of Islam. The Turks lost territory, Spain was eventually reclaimed. It was here that Islam began to decline.

It was no coincidence that, 13 years ago, the attacks on the World Trade Center were planned to take place on this day.

What was the goal of Al Qaeda? To form an Islamic Caliphate.

Quoting The Great Heresies by Hilaire Belloc (British historian):

". . . It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent. The suggestion that Islam may re-arise sounds fantastic - but this is only because men are always powerfully affected by the immediate past: - one might say that they are blinded by it. But not so very long ago, less than a hundred years before the Declaration of Independence . . . Vienna was almost taken and only saved by the Christian army under the command of the King of Poland on a date that ought to be among the most famous in history -- September 11, 1683."

That was published in 1938

It borders on the prophetic.

There is no mistake that the makings of ISIS have always existed within Islam. ISIS is precisely what Islam is.



ISIS is what was bound to happen, eventually.

Although, yes, some short-sighted decisions made by my country's policy makers allowed this particular group to come to power. I am even suspicious that our president's administration is deliberately finding ways of arming this group so that they may continue to gain power in the region. A couple mistakes is just foolishness. A few is incompetence. This many is deviousness in my book; he and all of his cabinet as well as appointed officials should be arrested on suspicion of treason and put on trial for such.

Forget impeachment. That ship set sail within the first two months of his taking office. We're so far past that it's not even funny.

But it does go back farther than that. The creation of the 'petro-dollar' has given our nation's military a set of interests and responsibilities that many Americans would disagree with if they were properly educated on the way in which this system works. This is also, currently, landing us in hot water with Russia, right now, as Putin is trying to force the issue of nations abandoning the 'petro-dollar' - or, more properly, to accept other forms of payment for oil (aside from treasury bonds). The fact that we are printing the dollar into oblivion doesn't help, either - everyone with an understanding of math and basic concepts of economics knows it is going to end badly - it's just a question of when and under the influence of what.



Looting by our military is not completely unheard of - but it is prosecuted when discovered. Generally speaking, soldiers are out buying things from the locals not five minutes after the bullets stop flying. Americans, coming from the ideology of a free market (even if we are not one), tend to believe that all goods and services come at a respectable exchange. The sight of someone stealing from another, particularly those who have little to begin with, tends to provoke violence towards the thief from most Americans - particularly those from a police/defense background (like those in the military).

Further - our nation has gone to ridiculous extremes to -not- appear to be the good guy.

I served with people who were in Iraq (was never there, myself). One of the things we did was receive a bunch of donated clothing from back in the States. Some of it was even purchased by the U.S. government in the form of aid spending. It would be unpacked by our soldiers and re-packed into Iraqi government boxes before it would be given to their soldiers to distribute.

Unfortunately - the soldiers generally took anything of value and our soldiers were officially forbidden from intervening. It was actually 'policy' that an Iraqi soldier could see something he wanted - even if it was in the hands of a citizen - and simply walk up and take it from them (at least as far as the aid supplies went).

One day, one of our guys who was assigned to oversee some of this simply couldn't take it, anymore. A woman nearly dressed in rags and her daughter were looking through clothes when an Iraqi soldier came up and started to take it from them. He flipped shit and dressed down the Iraqi soldier on the spot, took the clothes away from him, and handed them back to the lady and her daughter. He was almost certain it would end up causing some kind of international incident and he would be sent to Mast (NJP) - but nothing came of it.

Now - that is one person's anecdote of an anecdote - and I doubt it will change your mind.

Do we kill? Yes - that's what soldiers do when they are sent in and told to get rid of problems. That's what we're trained to do - break shit.

-SHOULD- we be going into many of these areas?

That's a difficult question. While I believe the U.S. is full of people who are fundamentally good and who desire nothing more than to extend that goodness to other nations - to deliver them from oppression and from threat of war; the fact is that we usually have no ****ing clue how to go about doing that.

Americans have a misplaced belief in democracy. Due to failures of public education, Americans believe it is the process of 'choosing our leader' that has led to the relative peace within our nation and to our economic success. Thus, they are horribly confused when an election is held in another nation and, a few years later, it is right back to where it was when we sent our military in to stop the violence.

They don't understand that what has produced the peace and prosperity that our nation enjoys is the concept of limited government - it is the idea that the government does not have infinite power - that groups of people cannot use the ballot box to oppress others because the government is expressly forbidden the powers most frequently used to oppress others. That creates an atmosphere of relative security where social tensions can be relaxed. It doesn't matter what the guy next door is doing - he has no authority and no ability to interrupt your foray into welding. If it is a trade you wish to practice - no one can tell you that you can't learn it, no one can tell you that you must pay ludicrous amounts of money to do business (and as such - no one has the power to control what that fee is or to ignore violators of their own ethnicity) - we had a genuinely free system where you were only limited by your own ability and the simple law that you couldn't harm/extort others.

Of course - we've lost that concept, ourselves, and it is why we are sprinting straight for a civil war with most people not having a clue that it's coming.



Hmm... that word, again... 'zionists.'

Interesting.

Most interesting.

Please, tell me what you and your friends know of these "Zionists."



You see, this is where the discussion devolves into: "Who blew who up first."

It's really pretty simple. We don't even ask that you all disarm (well, others do - but I'm not a believer in disarmament). Just stop shooting mortars and rockets at everyone, and bombs will stop falling on your head. It's not a complicated concept.

We've tried. Others have tried. They've poured incalculable resources into developing infrastructure and industry that would allow people to live productive and fulfilled lives. But, no. It's like a one-track mind of "kill the zionists!"

Granted, our retarded governments could stop sending food to y'all - maybe then you would have to think a little bit more about where dinner is going to come from and not have so much time to think about how to kill the people feeding you... but neither side of that is really exercising common sense.



You're just jealous because we figured out how to be productive enough to build an atomic bomb and you guys are still trying to wrap your minds around cordite before giving up and using the old soviet artillery shells to blow up the Shia delegation.

Oh yeah. That's right. You all almost forgot about the Russians, didn't you?

Yeah - I don't know why we are trying to make enemies with them at this point in time. Austria might be the only nation to be considered a greater natural enemy of Islam than Russia is.

Of course - if we -wanted- to reduce the human population - we could always re-introduce smallpox. The areas that can afford nourishment and medical care will do just fine if they know to 'brace' for it. The areas that can't will be virtually annihilated in less than two years' time.

Or, you know - it is always cheaper to detonate nuclear weapons than it is to properly dispose of them. We could just do that.



Compared to the imperialism that places a blade on every throat?

Japan.

Korea.

Germany.

These three nations were 'occupied' by our nation. Now they are dominant, independent economic powers.

It was the attempt to be appeasers when we occupied Iraq and Afghanistan that led to the failure we see, today. We did not establish nations of laws and we did not enforce the principles of limited government. Allowing the soldiers of a nation to steal from its own people as a general policy matter is just one small part of how fundamentally flawed our policies were.

We were not putting a stop to the very things that were creating a culture of corruption and distrust.

The truth has been spoken.

 

[Kishi Uzumaki]

Only one language terrorists understands, it's violence, just speak on their own and get rid of them .

 

[Aim64C]

I was chatting with my dad over dinner the other day and we touched upon the subject of Islamic terrorism.(he likes to talk about global issues.) Anyways I told my dad "These terrorists are not real muslims. They simply abuse their religion and are in the minority." My father disagreed. He said something like "That is incorrect. These terrorists are preaching Islam in it's purest form. They are the real muslims. The nice muslims are not practising it properly." That made no sense to me.

Your father is right.

See below.

No offence ,but your father got it wrong .
Real islam is only in quran and suna (the prophet Hadith)
Those "muslims" doesn't follow quran where its forbidden to kill innocent people so whatever they come up with its not from real islam .

This is not entirely true.

The only people who are innocent are those who are following the commands of Allah's Prophet. All of the other people are continually in a state of blaspheme.

You have to understand that Muslims see the rest of the world as not just 'doomed' - but downright damned by God. God has commanded them to show mercy by giving them the opportunity to convert - but those who would reject God's grace must be destroyed.

That's a funny perspective but it is complicated issue. Though I disagree with him, I find that " they are not real Hindu/Muslim/Christian/Pastafarian" argument, a cop out.

Is there such a thing as real and fake Muslim? If so what are the real Muslims going to do about the fake/misguided ones? For these "not real" ones claim to be practicing Muslims. How long before we will get to see the results of their efforts if they are trying to deal with such people who smear their name and religion with false interpretation? Can they handle them? Are they willing to take help of other non- Muslims to deal with these " fake Muslims?

There are a lot of question we like to ignore like a pink elephant in the room for keeping peace but it shouldn't be this one sided as to mislead or divert attention from a serious issue.

There are 73 accepted sects in Islam. So obviously not everyone interprets every religious verse or its teachings in the same way. Everyone can say others are not real ones. People following a belief may see it differently but others judge on the basis of the end results. They make comments based on how they or the people they care about are/were affected by it- did they have to suffer discrimination on the basis of religion, were forced to convert, or go through slavery or blood shed, or suffer other demeaning or negative situations.

Are there people who are supporting extremists- yes there are. Do all of them support it- of course not. Do the ones who do not support such behaviour, do something to discourage such extremists or they are only concerned with internet image? I would like to believe that the later is not true and that the moderate ones do their best to keep the extremists among them in check or everyone is screwed.

As for ISIS, they kidnapped 40 Sikhs in June this year who were working for a Turkish construction company in Iraq. I cannot imagine what their families are going through everyday. Talking about innocents..

There are good people who consider themselves to be Muslim.

Unfortunately - their good nature is in conflict with their religious teachings and they justify their views within those religious texts by a very slim margin.

In order for any Muslim to be 'moderate' - one must reject the notion that Mohammed was 'the perfect man' - or that the words he wrote in the Koran are the words of God. Both of which -will- get you killed by those who support Islam as it was taught by Mohammed. So it's no surprise there is very little rebuking of 'radicals' on scriptural terms.

It's like saying: "I am Christian, but I do not believe Jesus was the prophesied Messiah and I do not believe his teachings were divinely inspired."

While most of the Christianity that America is familiar with considers Jesus to have been something akin to God in human form - that has not always been the Christian understanding of Jesus - and I would contend is a very watered-down understanding of God meant to appeal to simple-minded folk. But in the above - we are talking about very fundamental concepts that define Christianity. It's like saying: "I'm Christian but I believe nothing of Christ."

Which is ridiculous.

So it's a losing argument - even if people believe it is genuinely -not- how people should live in the modern age - the scriptural basis for it within Islam is exceptionally slim - and even that is rendered null and void by the "Verse of the Sword."

[video=youtube;krvCQbzPKiI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krvCQbzPKiI[/video]

This is a great documentary that pretty much lays it out, bluntly.

Bluntly - the good, moderate Muslims need to find something else to be - because their religion is the doctrine of conquest left behind by a 7th century warlord.

I don't think there is any manner of 'reformation' that can save Islam from its violent path. Muslims can save themselves from the violence of Islam by becoming something else - but Islam, itself, is not salvageable.