Lol you do realize that's just one part of the total speed, and I never was using just 1 aspect to determine Gai's speed. Either way you seem determined to believe this, so I won't bother with this. Gai still has the speed feat for any versus discussion so meh.
Who is faster?? Gai in 7th gate or Raikage in his stage 2 mode?
- Thread starter Aikor
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I never agree with this sasuke looking nikkah but today I think we might just be on the same page. I'll re-post this again for anyone new looking at the third.
Fight Speed: 7th gate Gai > Ay
Movement Speed: V2 Ay > 7th Gate Gai
Fight Speed: 7th gate Gai > Ay
Movement Speed: V2 Ay > 7th Gate Gai
KidGamer65
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-7th Gate Gai's capabilities were known.
-Yet Ay was stated to be the fastest.
-You keep saying that its been debunked.
-But no direct comparison has occurred in the manga that lets you say that its been debunked.
So he is. Its as simple as that. And denying that is equivalent to denying manga fact, so once again. Stop denying manga fact.
Its just a separate aspect of speed that we aren't comparing in this thread. Why you are still arguing is beyond me.
Lol......
But yeah, this is essentially what it comes down to.
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Lol who were his full capabilities known to? Us? When we never saw a thing except for his one hit kill technique. Saying one's full capabilities were known because Yamato knew his technique is false. Rock Lee knew about EE but didn't even know about NM. Relying on the fact that Tsunade knew everything about him is completely false just because she was Hokage. I explained the Minato case to you.
His full capabilities were soo known that even Minato when he was Hokage didn't know this guy could open the gates. Denying it or bringing recent feats? You say we can't use the Naruto example but Naruto was never stated to be faster and yet people say he's faster due to feats.
They have to compare them for you to know this? They have to say "Gai is faster than Ay" before we can then know he's really faster.
I used the Kakashi and Gai example with Sasuke and you said it doesn't work because you know that later on feats disagree ..It's the same here...You can't drop one and say it's irrelevant when it's almost or if not the same case.
Ok KCM Naruto was never said to be faster so Ay> KCM Naruto since he was said to be the fastest man universally...Since Naruto only reacted to his speed while he was moving. Something Gai can't do with the movement speed he showed Lol.
Let's drop it here bro..We'll never agree on this because you'll say I'm denying facts since they can't be debunked. I'm not favoring Gai by the way..I'm just stating it how I see it.
His full capabilities were soo known that even Minato when he was Hokage didn't know this guy could open the gates. Denying it or bringing recent feats? You say we can't use the Naruto example but Naruto was never stated to be faster and yet people say he's faster due to feats.
They have to compare them for you to know this? They have to say "Gai is faster than Ay" before we can then know he's really faster.
I used the Kakashi and Gai example with Sasuke and you said it doesn't work because you know that later on feats disagree ..It's the same here...You can't drop one and say it's irrelevant when it's almost or if not the same case.
Ok KCM Naruto was never said to be faster so Ay> KCM Naruto since he was said to be the fastest man universally...Since Naruto only reacted to his speed while he was moving. Something Gai can't do with the movement speed he showed Lol.
Let's drop it here bro..We'll never agree on this because you'll say I'm denying facts since they can't be debunked. I'm not favoring Gai by the way..I'm just stating it how I see it.
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KidGamer65
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He knew of Hirudora because he had seen Gai fight in the 7th Gate before. That simple. What we saw is irrelevant. Your Rock Lee example doesn't hold since unlike Yamato, he didn't identify Evening Elephant from having already seen it, cause its a fact that he hadn't seen it until then. Just heard of it from Gai. Yamato saw Hirudora, and was able to identify it so he had seen it before. Meaning he had seen Gai fight in the 7th Gate before, meaning he knows his capabilities.
I never once mentioned Tsunade.
What Minato knew doesn't mean shit. Lets stop with the terrible logic. Yamato has proven to us that he has seen the 7th Gate in action before. I don't care what Minato knew of.
Not to mention the guy was Hokage for a very very short period of time, so even if I tried to use the Tsunade example, you aren't contesting it with a valid argument.
Lol. More bad logic.
-That was a direct comparison showing that AY WAS SLOWER.
-Ay says that only him and Minato have dodged his top speed punch, basically admitting he's slower, so that alone renders this part false.
-There is no direct comparison that shows "Guy>Ay's Shunshin" when it comes to movement speed. Not a single one.
-Ay wasn't stated to be the fastest after KCM Naruto.
They better show something that proves Ay's "fastest in the world hype" false, and no such thing has been shown in the manga.
Feats only end up disagreeing due to improvement, which isn't a factor here.
What? Not only have I replied to this, KCM Naruto reacted to, and evaded Ay's top speed punch. Thus making him faster.
Lol, alright.
That hardly matters as there's a negligible gap between the reflexes of Alive Minato and Edo Minato, as stated by Tobirama himself. A small gap that would have been easily overcome by the boost being in Sage Mode provides. It is up to you to prove that being an Edo would have dulled Minato's reflexes so badly that he would have been unable to react to V2 A while in Sage Mode.
He had enough chakra to enter Sage Mode, teleport, and use a Rasengan. If he had enough chakra to enter Sage Mode then he had enough chakra to increase his physical capabilities.
Except that there's nothing stating that Minato can choose what boosts Sage Mode gives him. That's an assertion entirely made up by you. Simply being in Sage Mode increases Minato's base stats. And as was seen with an Imperfect Sage like Jiraiya, that includes speed and reflexes. Either post evidence that Minato can choose what boosts are bestowed to him once entering Sage Mode or I will disregard it as speculation.
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would give him
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. There is no choosing not to use it.Except for the fact that normal sensing is not the same thing as Sage Mode sensing. Sage Mode sensing utilises the natural energy in the environment, making it a passive ability for Sage Mode users. Normal sensing requires some degree of kneading chakra. There's no point in trying to equate the two when they are not activated in the same way, nor are they used to sense the same things.
SM Naruto still blocked Madara's attack even if he wasn't expecting him to use that level of speed, which heavily implies that he still sensed Madara coming.
But he is not > Edo Minato in Sage Mode. To believe that he is would be to either believe that the base stats of alive Minato far surpass those of Edo Minato, or to believe that Sage Mode only gives a mediocre boost to base stats. The first belief can't be true, as that would be contradicted by what Tobirama says about his own jutsu. The second belief would also be untrue, as it is contradicted by everything that has been said and shown in the manga about Sage Mode.
Unless you can post proof that showed Madara was having difficulty dealing with Guy specifically because he only had one eye to keep track of his movements, I will also disregard this as speculation.
And when you compare both cases, Guy managed to launch his attack (as well as the two others before Hirudora) before Madara could stop it completely and have his arms intact, whereas Sage Mode Minato failed to launch his attack and lost his arm. That clearly shows he struck faster than Minato could.
That link shows Madara being alerted to the sand wall being erected between him and Obito, and of Minato appearing before him. It does not show Madara reacting to the kunai.
Which has absolutely no bearing on Minato's reflexes.
Because Madara stopped him from controlling his chakra with chakra rods (presumably using Limbo to catch him by surprise off-screen). Tobirama also did not have Sage Mode to help boost his reflexes to the point where he could dodge Madara's attacks, whereas
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.Asserting that it doesn't increase his reflexes would be to ignore everything the manga says about Sage Mode. With what the manga says about Sage Mode, Minato should have either teleported out of Madara's way before being countered, dodged his attack and continued through with Rasengan like Naruto did with the Raikage (or like Madara himself did with Tobirama), or jumped out of the way like Kabuto did when faced with Sasuke's Chidori Spear, if he wanted to keep his arm. The mere fact that he did none of these things mean that he couldn't react in time, and if he couldn't react in time Madara would have had to be much faster than V2 A.
Where is your proof that Minato can't use FTG multiple times in quick succession?
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blazekev90
Active member
These post are a hot mess, using irrelevant references to prove a point? Lol
OT: trying to determine Gai's speed using Gates is a difficult one, which is clearly the issue here. However, since we're referring to other scans, it's important to mention Madara's inability to react accordingly to Gai's 7th Gate FOOT speed.
Another point, being aware of Hirudora does not necessarily mean Gates were being used, let alone 7th Gate in particular, especially since Gai used it without Gates. Each user is different, as Gates enhances ones own abilities.
OT: trying to determine Gai's speed using Gates is a difficult one, which is clearly the issue here. However, since we're referring to other scans, it's important to mention Madara's inability to react accordingly to Gai's 7th Gate FOOT speed.
Another point, being aware of Hirudora does not necessarily mean Gates were being used, let alone 7th Gate in particular, especially since Gai used it without Gates. Each user is different, as Gates enhances ones own abilities.
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