Can we also say V2 Ay is faster than SM Naruto with the Rikudou's power? No we can't.
Once again, you are trying to liken this situation to something different, when anyone can clearly see that they far from the same thing.
-Ay was stated to be the fastest man.
-At the time they knew of Gai's capabilities in the 7th Gate, what we know is irrelevant, so don't mention it again.
If Ay is considered to be the fastest despite Gai's capabilities being known, then Ay is obviously faster, its not debatable. Your SM Naruto and V2 Ay example obviously doesn't hold since nobody knew of Naruto's capabilities like they did Gai when they said that he was the fastest. You are acting like Gai pulled the 7th Gate from his arse and that nobody knows about it, even though Yamato even knew that he was using Hirudora.
We're going to go by the fact that this guy said he was the fastest a while ago...so he can't be surpassed? SM Naruto tried to blitz Madara but got reacted to even though this guy was on the ground in a weakened state and 7G Gai surprised him while on foot with raw speed. I wonder why you're saying they knew about his speed. That feat's not good enough?
Read above. There isn't anything to debate here. Being surpassed isn't a factor here when they knew of Gai's power and said that Ay was faster. So Ay is faster.
@bold: There is nothing that puts Gai's feat way above, or even above Naruto's at all. Madara reacted to both of them, and he blocked both of their attacks.
Ten Ten said Neji's defense was better than Gaara's even though she knew about Gaara's shield. We're still going to go by that? It can't change?
Lol, please stop. You made this long post based on a completely different scenario, when it shouldn't be this hard to understand this concept. This only applies if Gai got faster in the 7th Gate than he was before, no proof that he did, so once again, your analogy doesn't work.
Ay openly said he needed more speed against Edo Madara(who's slower than SM Madara). Gai nearly blitz Juubi Madara leaving him surprised twice and also making contact twice. We're still going to stick by Ay's statement? We're still going to say because Kishi made Ay say that when Gai was there, so it doesn't matter? Are we going to say Kishi didn't know what he was doing when he allowed this to happen? Gai showing such movements against a Juubi Jinchuuriki when Ay openly said he needed more speed against a far slower Edo?
Lol. Ay said that after
trying to blitz
You must be registered for see links
. So once again, your analogy fails because not only is it a different situation, you're wrong about something key to the accuracy of the analogy. Ay didn't attack Madara at full speed, and only used V2 AFTER he said that statement.
Madara never reacted to and blocked Ay's top speed. Once he started using V2, Susanoo was guarding him.
Gai didn't nearly blitz Madara either. Lol. He reacted to him even when he had his smoke as cover, jumped back, parried all his attacks and fodderized him.
Are we still going to say because Tsunade was there? Sure at that point Ay was faster...but then again, it can change. Not to mention I see everyone saying the Hokage was there and so she must have known
everything about him since she was the Hokage...Gai could open the gates since the White Fang era or if not, before Obito's death when Minato wasn't even Hokage yet and Minato never knew he could use Hachimon even after becoming Hokage as he said here
You must be registered for see links
How is this relevant? You keep saying it can change, but once again, they knew of Gai's 7th Gate, and Ay was universally considered to be the fastest. "It can change" isn't relevant unless we were talking about a time where Ay was considered the fastest, then Gai surpassed his speed. Except that didn't happen.
Just look at what the others are using...A previous statements because there's no denying this guy surpassed Ay's speed...so everyone leaves feats in order to downplay this guy all the time.
Sasuke knew about 3T Kakashi and said Base Gai was stronger than him. Why did people disagree? Simply because Kakashi showed improved feats that put him above Base Gai afterwards. Are we saying Gai's speed can never improve?
Once again....for any of this to be valid, you are going to have to prove that Gai had a massive speed increase in the 7th Gate. Except no such evidence exists.
Naruto said the Ninja with the stronger shield is Gaara..He experienced Susanoo with Itachi as well as Yata and Totsuka being with him...I wonder why Kishi had Naruto say that? Maybe the shield is stronger because there are no feats that put Susanoo above it?
Naruto got a glimpse of Susanoo. He knows nothing about its full capabilities, so he can't make a valid comparison between Gaara's Sand and his Susanoo. So your analogy doesn't work as they had intel on Gai's 7th Gate. They had seen it in action, yet Ay was considered to be the fastest.
I said the same about Neji's rotation being better than Gaara's defense...Gaara's defense surpassed it going by feats even before Naruto said it was stronger.
You mean with the Tenten example? Because I already covered that.
Well I go with Gai...If you still think Ay, then it's fine.
I'm just going to go with what the manga clearly portrayed, and that's Ay being faster than Gai.
So this is basically a battle between feats and hype? Or am I missing something? I can't see Ay doing what 7th gate Gai did to madara.
He can't because Gai moves at top speed continuously because Gates' speed isn't Shunshin, and he has better striking and body movement speed than Ay. Ay only moves in one quick burst (Shunshin) and after that, he isn't moving at top speed.
I wouldn't chalk it up to feats vs hype either. Its simply the fact that the manga stated that Ay was the fastest man at that point in time as Minato was dead, thus no one alive that they know about is faster than him. That simple.
