[VS] Ay vs Tobirama

[KidGamer65]

All he said was his speed punch didn't say it was his fastest punch. V2 does increase his speed seeing as Raikage quickly used v2 once Sasuke activated his Ms because he already knew how deadly Amaterasu was.(

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). Cee pretty much confirms it here that not only he went v2 because of Ms. The more chakra the faster he gets.(

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).

Little lazy so let's get down to the deciding factors here which is Tobirama piercing water tech and Ei armor v2.

1. He said "Minato evaded his full speed" then he said Naruto evaded the same punch. Meaning that he charged at both Naruto and Minato with FULL SPEED. How hard is this to understand?

2. Never said that V2 doesn't increase his speed. Why don't you actually read my post instead of repeating the same stuff I already addressed?

Like I said, get proof that Ay got faster or just concede.

I've already stated how Tobirama beats him, and I've received no counter.

 

[KidGamer65]

Could have repped you for this point.

Yeah, Draegod first pointed that out to me.

 

[Gamaken]

Tobirama mid-high difficulty IMO.

 

[TRE MERCER]

1. He said "Minato evaded his full speed" then he said Naruto evaded the same punch. Meaning that he charged at both Naruto and Minato with FULL SPEED. How hard is this to understand?

2. Never said that V2 doesn't increase his speed. Why don't you actually read my post instead of repeating the same stuff I already addressed?

Like I said, get proof that Ay got faster or just concede.

I've already stated how Tobirama beats him, and I've received no counter.

His speed clearly changed since then. He said Naruto dodged his speed punch not his faster punch his speed punch was as fast as the punch he used on Minato. He never said he was going his fastest ever. Proof let's see here Sasuke had no problem tracking Raikage Ei in v1 but when he went to v2 Sasuke lost him. I need proof that he didn't get any faster.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Ay takes this due to Tobirama's inability to hurt him, large stamina difference, and Shunshin difference primarily.

If you gave him one Edo Tensei and a few prepped Hiriashin markings then the tides would turn.​

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[Haizaki]

His speed clearly changed since then. He said Naruto dodged his speed punch not his faster punch his speed punch was as fast as the punch he used on Minato. He never said he was going his fastest ever. Proof let's see here Sasuke had no problem tracking Raikage Ei in v1 but when he went to v2 Sasuke lost him. I need proof that he didn't get any faster.

I never considered what Kidgamer said but yes he does have a point.

- Ay said Minato was the only one to evade him at Max speed and Naruto is the second to do so indicating there's no speed difference between "V1" and "V2" as they say.
- Against Madara, Ay said he needed to up his speed

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as seen with when Ohnoki had to make him faster. Surely he could have gone "V2" is there was a difference.
- Against Minato he was in V1 and still said he was evaded at Full speed.
- Sasuke could track Ay because Ay ran at him with a thrust attack in a straight line with Sasuke having an advantage due to his sharingan

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. Sasuke didn't do the same here

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[V h o]

Not sure how tobirama breaks the armor.

 

[Kagustuchi]

KG's right about V2 though. Its a fan dub, much easier to type than "Raiton Armor with increased Chakra Output" or something like that.​

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[King Of Pop]

I never considered what Kidgamer said but yes he does have a point.

- Ay said Minato was the only one to evade him at Max speed and Naruto is the second to do so indicating there's no speed difference between "V1" and "V2" as they say.
- Against Madara, Ay said he needed to up his speed

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as seen with when Ohnoki had to make him faster. Surely he could have gone "V2" is there was a difference.
- Against Minato he was in V1 and still said he was evaded at Full speed.
- Sasuke could track Ay because Ay ran at him with a thrust attack in a straight line with Sasuke having an advantage due to his sharingan

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. Sasuke didn't do the same here

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ays movement there is also straight at him from the front. he didnt move or react because he was planning on testing and using soosano, he tells suigetsu he didnt need his help later on and jugo then questions(referring to soosano) if its what he was planning to try all along

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. shi also used a genjutsu and ay and darui synchd their movements with it hence when sasuke saw through it they were already close to hitting him, that situation came about not due to the nature or speed of ay and daruis movement.

OT. can go either way but i lean more towards ay.

 

[blazekev90]

Tobirama is overrated

His hand speed has been inconsistent, yet people use it in their arguments all the time. Smh.

 

[Haizaki]

[/B]
ays movement there is also straight at him from the front. he didnt move or react because he was planning on testing and using soosano, he tells suigetsu he didnt need his help later on and jugo then questions(referring to soosano) if its what he was planning to try all along

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. shi also used a genjutsu and ay and darui synchd their movements with it hence when sasuke saw through it they were already close to hitting him, that situation came about not due to the nature or speed of ay and daruis movement.

OT. can go either way but i lean more towards ay.

@bold Any scans to support this? Any proof of him wanting to test Susanoo being the reason he didn't move or react?

Him telling Suigetsu that doesn't mean anything when Suigetsu also confirmed they saved him in that same scan. The Jugo part refers to this scan here where he told Jugo he wanted to test something

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That was a night before.

Sasuke already saw through the genjutsu but Jugo didn't. The sharingan allows him to see through genjutsu. How would that in anyway slow him down when Ay and Darui came from the same position the genjutsu was coming from? He would have tracked Ay and reacted . C pretty much said the sharingan cannot keep up with his raiton armor

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Ay's attack that Sasuke reacted involved both running at each other in a straight line with a thrust attack. Sasuke had the advantage due to his shanringan in that situation.

 

[blazekev90]

I never considered what Kidgamer said but yes he does have a point.

- Ay said Minato was the only one to evade him at Max speed and Naruto is the second to do so indicating there's no speed difference between "V1" and "V2" as they say.
- Against Madara, Ay said he needed to up his speed

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as seen with when Ohnoki had to make him faster. Surely he could have gone "V2" is there was a difference.
- Against Minato he was in V1 and still said he was evaded at Full speed.
- Sasuke could track Ay because Ay ran at him with a thrust attack in a straight line with Sasuke having an advantage due to his sharingan

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. Sasuke didn't do the same here

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Judge from his hair, V2 was activated

 

[Unorthodox]

Ei whoops him.

Kidgamer such a joke always using that because it happened it needed to line didnt Hashirama's bushin react just as fast as tobirama when it was blitzed aswell? does that mean Hashirama bushin have reflexes comparable to juubito? No also that was v1 juubito who Sasuke reacted to when he jumped from 50m to save Naruto with Susanoo. Also can we conclude that Juubito cannot dodge amaterasu without sensing abilities because he said he sensed the chakra build up in Sasuke's left eye meaning he knew amaterasu was coming moral of the story is just because it happened doesnt mean it was needed.

Ei was confident he would destroy minato even though he had numerous seals ftg kunai out Ei didnt count on Him warping behind bee also Ei has obviously gotten faster in the next 17 years or so. Ei wins med diff

 

[Gold Lightning]

Clones not having as good reactions as the original=/=Clones being blitzed by Ay. If you think they'll get blitzed, show me some evidence that their reactions dull so much that Tobirama won't be able to react to Ay when he already reacted to someone much much faster than him.

Lol. It not meaning squat to you doesn't mean squat to me, not when logic agrees with me and not you. He reacted to Juubito's Shunshin and tagged him 5 times before he got hit. That's a fact. Whether or not he was hit after that doesn't matter as that feat proved that his reactions are fast enough to let him react to Juubito physically and mentally. Ay is slower, much slower, so he won't need to sacrifice anything to evade him.

@bold: Evidence?

If Tobirama had a marking set when Juubito rushed him, he would have been able to escape via Hiraishin.

Sigh

Not saying his clines can't react. I said a clones FTG is slower than the original, so even if none clones have the mental reaction to use FTG to evade, it still wouldn't work because the FTG would be delayed.

 

[ARGUS]

The only reason you'd believe he doesn't have V2 is because his hair isn't spiked up, which is because the headband holds it down. Not to mention there is no real "V2" version of the armor. Its just Ay pumping more chakra into it, allowing him to go faster.

@Bold - then shoulnt the third raikage also be able to enhance his speed significantlly by pumping more chakra into his armor and gain something similar to V2??? , afterall both their armors share similar properties, (such as enhanced speed, reflexes and durability)

 

[Kagustuchi]

@Bold - then shoulnt the third raikage also be able to enhance his speed significantlly by pumping more chakra into his armor and gain something similar to V2??? , afterall both their armors share similar properties, (such as enhanced speed, reflexes and durability)

Depends on his Knead/Release capcity. Though people with large stamina pools usually have large outputs.​

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[ARGUS]

Depends on his Knead/Release capcity. Though people with large stamina pools usually have large outputs.​

​

well logically it is possible especially seeing how the third has superior chakra reserves than his son, and can definitely amp his armor quite alot to enable him the speed equivalent to V2

 

[TRE MERCER]

I never considered what Kidgamer said but yes he does have a point.

- Ay said Minato was the only one to evade him at Max speed and Naruto is the second to do so indicating there's no speed difference between "V1" and "V2" as they say.
- Against Madara, Ay said he needed to up his speed

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as seen with when Ohnoki had to make him faster. Surely he could have gone "V2" is there was a difference.
- Against Minato he was in V1 and still said he was evaded at Full speed.
- Sasuke could track Ay because Ay ran at him with a thrust attack in a straight line with Sasuke having an advantage due to his sharingan

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. Sasuke didn't do the same here

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That logic is incorrect buddy. If Naruto were to use a rasengan in km and someone dodged it his full speed km rasengan. Then he uses bm on another opponent and they dodged his rasengan and says they dodged it just the guy who dodged it before does that mean he didn't get any faster? No. He clearly activated his v2 the moment he got to the battlefield.(

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). His hair is clearly sticking up.

 

[KidGamer65]

Sigh

Not saying his clines can't react. I said a clones FTG is slower than the original, so even if none clones have the mental reaction to use FTG to evade, it still wouldn't work because the FTG would be delayed.

That's not how it works. Hiraishin only gets slower based on the reactions of the person using it. So once again, get evidence that the clones wouldn't be able to react in time.

Ei whoops him.

Kidgamer such a joke always using that because it happened it needed to line didnt Hashirama's bushin react just as fast as tobirama when it was blitzed aswell? does that mean Hashirama bushin have reflexes comparable to juubito? No also that was v1 juubito who Sasuke reacted to when he jumped from 50m to save Naruto with Susanoo. Also can we conclude that Juubito cannot dodge amaterasu without sensing abilities because he said he sensed the chakra build up in Sasuke's left eye meaning he knew amaterasu was coming moral of the story is just because it happened doesnt mean it was needed.

Lol, how many times do I have to own you before you stop talking stuff?

1. I never stated Tobirama has comparable reactions to Juubito, I said his reactions are fast enough to let him react to Juubito's Shunshin. READ.

2. Hashirama's clone didn't react, it got torn apart and THEN it attacked. Tobirama tagged him before he got hit. Once again, READ.

3. Sasuke didn't react to Juubito's Shunshin. He reacted to Juubito's Gudo Dama attack, and then got blitzed by his Shunshin in THE VERY NEXT PAGE. Again, read the manga.

4. V1 Juubito>>>>Ay in speed. So it doesn't really matter what version it is.

5. The bold is completely irrelevant to the argument. Everything I stated about Juubito and Tobirama is a fact. Nothing you post will change that.

Ei was confident he would destroy minato even though he had numerous seals ftg kunai out Ei didnt count on Him warping behind bee also Ei has obviously gotten faster in the next 17 years or so. Ei wins med diff

Ay being confident doesn't mean anything here. Many people have been confident that they'd do something or win a fight...and they got their ass beat. "Confidence" isn't an argument, especially when Tobirama and Ay are in different positions.

"Obviously" isn't an argument.

His speed clearly changed since then. He said Naruto dodged his speed punch not his faster punch his speed punch was as fast as the punch he used on Minato. He never said he was going his fastest ever. Proof let's see here Sasuke had no problem tracking Raikage Ei in v1 but when he went to v2 Sasuke lost him. I need proof that he didn't get any faster.

Evidence his speed changed? Cause I'm definitely seeing nothing here.

-Minato dodged Ay's full speed. Ay said Naruto is the second to dodge that speed. Meaning they both dodged Ay's speed.

-Ay went at Naruto with the INTENT TO KILL. Yet you are telling me he didn't go full speed? Keep on denying manga facts buddy.

-There is no evidence that Ay got any faster.

When you can even explain how the bold is proof that Ay got faster then we can talk. It sounds like you are still trying to argue this ridiculous, "He didn't have V2" point, even though V2 isn't a mode to obtain. Its Ay pumping more chakra into his Raiton Armor. Stop making it seem like its a mode that he trained to obtain or some shit like that.

 

[Gold Lightning]

That's not how it works. Hiraishin only gets slower based on the reactions of the person using it. So once again, get evidence that the clones wouldn't be able to react in time..

Well then please explain what you think Tobirama meant by... "Using FTG with clones is too slow"

?