[VS] Ay vs Tobirama

[TRE MERCER]

Juubito>>>>>>>Ay in speed. So that's irrelevant.
Juubito's speed> Tobirama's as well so you saying this means nothing. Putting his body on the line is not helping your case at all.






Sure, maybe he can shrug off one, 4 or 5 or even more than that? No. Repeated uses of it? No.

Wrong! Piecing force and blunt are different.

Example- If you apply the same blunt force attack to an object it's going to budge such like if Tsunade kept punching Susanoo it would break eventually.

Example 2- If you were to use chidori on a rib cage in multiple areas the same thing would happen which is nothing seeing as there all attacking from different areas.

 

[KidGamer65]

Wrong! Piecing force and blunt are different.

Example- If you apply the same blunt force attack to an object it's going to budge such like if Tsunade kept punching Susanoo it would break eventually.

Example 2- If you were to use chidori on a rib cage in multiple areas the same thing would happen which is nothing seeing as there all attacking from different areas.

Suidanha isn't a blunt force attack. Its piercing/cutting, and no, if damage is inflicted to Susanoo over time, it'll eventually break, assuming the level isn't that high. If Sasuke used Chidori on one spot of Susanoo multiple times, or somehow used more than once Chidori at once, it'd do more damage than just using one Chidori and it'd break eventually. That doesn't change no matter the type of attack.

Pls tell me how water is gonna hit him, because I can't see where you mentioned it. If chidori barely did anything to hit, which has superior cutting power, then sorry but severing isn't doing anything. Sorry but severing wave isn't doing squat to him, especially not in v2.

Tobirama tosses his Kunai above Ay's head just like Minato did, then he warps above him and marks him, tosses another Kunai, or his sword, and teleports away from Ay, then makes a few clones. All these clones can teleport to Ay at once and use multiple Suidanha on him at the same time.

Like I've said, Tobirama will use more than one, not just one, and V2 or V1, it doesn't matter as the durability of the armor doesn't increase. The only reason V2 is called V2 is because Ay gets faster when he charges that much chakra up.

It's not just about Ay being confident, kishi wouldn't even have bothered writing that part if he didn't beleive Ay could do it. If Ay continuously moves at top speed across every marking that Tobirama has (which is even easier and quicker for Ay to move around to, due to less markings) then he will eventually hit Tobirama. Doesn't matter how good tobiramas reflexes are, all Ay has to do is guess the right marker once by moving non stop at top speed, and as Tobirama immediately appears, there'd be absolutely no time to even react with FTG again. The location isn't even a large battlefield, so explain why the markings will be much larger here?

Wrong. Kishimoto wrote that Edo Madara would defeat Juubito after getting Senjutsu from Hashirama, does that mean its true? No. Characters believing they can do something means squat if everything else disagrees, and if there are no feats to back that up.

Ay's top speed is Shunshin. Shunshin is a burst of speed that takes you from one point to another. He can't maintain full speed like that to run over every mark Tobirama has laid out unless they are in a perfect straight line, which they aren't.

The Kage Summit building is a much larger area than that small area encircled by trees that Minato fought Ay in. Not to mention the starting distance is even larger than it was there as well.

Clones are useless, they'll get blitzed in an instant because their FTG is slower, so even if they can react on time, the jutsu won't initiate on time. Oh and Tobirama sacrificing his body to attack his opponent means squat to me, since he still got utterly annihilated. All he did was take advantage if his immortal body. Using that example in he his scenario is meaningless to me since all that tells me is that sacrifice was needed to do that, something I'm sure other fast ninja could've done.

Clones not having as good reactions as the original=/=Clones being blitzed by Ay. If you think they'll get blitzed, show me some evidence that their reactions dull so much that Tobirama won't be able to react to Ay when he already reacted to someone much much faster than him.

Lol. It not meaning squat to you doesn't mean squat to me, not when logic agrees with me and not you. He reacted to Juubito's Shunshin and tagged him 5 times before he got hit. That's a fact. Whether or not he was hit after that doesn't matter as that feat proved that his reactions are fast enough to let him react to Juubito physically and mentally. Ay is slower, much slower, so he won't need to sacrifice anything to evade him.

@bold: Evidence?

If Tobirama had a marking set when Juubito rushed him, he would have been able to escape via Hiraishin.

 

[Power Bottom]

Ay wins...

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

Bold is false.

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Ay is right in front of Minato and the Kunai is still in his hand. He tossed it up the moment Ay was in front of him. Yet you are telling me that from 40m, Tobirama can't grab a Kunai and toss it above Ay's head? (Which is not a fair distance away, it'll be just how Minato did it) Not to mention the distance was no where near as large as it is for this thread.

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isn't anywhere near 40m. Tobirama reacted to Juubito (Far faster than Ay) from a similar

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and tagged him 5 times (

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and 1 Hiraishin Formula) He definitely pulled those bombs out of somewhere.

Like I said, Tobirama reacting to Ay is child's play.

You make good points, I concede.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Suidanha isn't a blunt force attack. Its piercing/cutting, and no, if damage is inflicted to Susanoo over time, it'll eventually break, assuming the level isn't that high. If Sasuke used Chidori on one spot of Susanoo multiple times, or somehow used more than once Chidori at once, it'd do more damage than just using one Chidori and it'd break eventually. That doesn't change no matter the type of attack.

Your clearly not getting what im saying so ill dumb it down for you baby girl. Suidanha is piercing force you said he'll shoot it 4-5 times right? L0l if you think Raikage is going to sit there and let Tobirama with clones shoot 5 Suidanha at him l0l stop. Also Ei lighting will travel through his suiton and into his mouth for the finish l0l.

 

[Rιver]

Your clearly not getting what im saying so ill dumb it down for you baby girl. Suidanha is piercing force you said he'll shoot it 4-5 times right? L0l if you think Raikage is going to sit there and let Tobirama with clones shoot 5 Suidanha at him l0l stop. Also Ei lighting will travel through his suiton and into his mouth for the finish l0l.

No, it won't... [

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].​

 

[TRE MERCER]

No, it won't... [

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].​

This scan has no relevance because they used there abilities in sync which means they combined there chakra so there abilities wouldn't counter each other. Similar to what Naruto and Sasuke did with the Enton Rasengan fusion Naruto didn't get burned because there abilities were in sync.

 

[Rιver]

This scan has no relevance because they used there abilities in sync which means they combined there chakra so there abilities wouldn't counter each other. Similar to what Naruto and Sasuke did with the Enton Rasengan fusion Naruto didn't get burned because there abilities were in sync.

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This is due to the elemental table; Katon is enhanced by Fūton, Fūton enhances Katon. Suiton however, does not enhance Raiton, same the other way around. Instead, it easily conducts electricity, and the way it does it can not be controlled or to some low extent. For Fūton not be completely devoured by Katon, the chakra volume must match perfectly; simple as that.​

 

[KidGamer65]

You make good points, I concede.

Thanks man.

Your clearly not getting what im saying so ill dumb it down for you baby girl. Suidanha is piercing force you said he'll shoot it 4-5 times right? L0l if you think Raikage is going to sit there and let Tobirama with clones shoot 5 Suidanha at him l0l stop. Also Ei lighting will travel through his suiton and into his mouth for the finish l0l.

I got what you're saying. I countered it and you didn't continue with the same train of thought as your last post, meaning you knew you were wrong.

Allow me to repeat something I've said twice now.

All these clones can teleport to Ay at once and use multiple Suidanha on him at the same time.

He isn't going to react to Hiraishin attacks, especially if they get his back like Minato did.


Lmfao, the underlined shouldn't even be taken seriously. Though River shat on it.

This scan has no relevance because they used there abilities in sync which means they combined there chakra so there abilities wouldn't counter each other. Similar to what Naruto and Sasuke did with the Enton Rasengan fusion Naruto didn't get burned because there abilities were in sync.

Naruto didn't get burnt because he didn't touch the flame, he was only holding the Rasengan.

 

[TRE MERCER]

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This is due to the elemental table; Katon is enhanced by Fūton, Fūton enhances Katon. Suiton however, does not enhance Raiton, same the other way around. Instead, it easily conducts electricity, and the way it does it can not be controlled or to some low extent. For Fūton not be completely devoured by Katon, the chakra volume must match perfectly; simple as that.​

Did you even read what i posted? Also it was a joke in the first place that's why i lol'ed why so serious? Also they used there abilities in sync reason why Jinton had no effect on there techs and the reason why Gaara sand wasn't effected by the ration or water.

Thanks man.



I got what you're saying. I countered it and you didn't continue with the same train of thought as your last post, meaning you knew you were wrong.

Allow me to repeat something I've said twice now.



He isn't going to react to Hiraishin attacks, especially if they get his back like Minato did.


Lmfao, the underlined shouldn't even be taken seriously. Though River shat on it.



Naruto didn't get burnt because he didn't touch the flame, he was only holding the Rasengan.

How is Tobirama going to get a tag seal on his back? Once they engage in cqc all Raikage has to do is get a grip on him and it's over.(

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). Naruto hand is clearly on the enton.

 

[KidGamer65]

How is Tobirama going to get a tag seal on his back? Once they engage in cqc all Raikage has to do is get a grip on him and it's over.(x). Naruto hand is clearly on the enton.

All he needs to do is toss it above his head like Minato did to him in the past, and then he can teleport above Ay and mark him

He pretty much does the same thing Minato did, but instead of trying to stab him, he marks him.

Are we looking at the same scan? Cause I don't think we are. Where do you even see Naruto touching his own Rasengan let alone the flames on the side of it. Naruto never touches the shuriken part of his FRS, so why in the world would he be touching it here?

 

[Rιver]

Did you even read what i posted? Also it was a joke in the first place that's why i lol'ed why so serious? Also they used there abilities in sync reason why Jinton had no effect on there techs and the reason why Gaara sand wasn't effected by the ration or water.

Pfft, that excuse. Can't take you seriously anymore.​

 

[TRE MERCER]

He pretty much does the same thing Minato did, but instead of trying to stab him, he marks him.

Are we looking at the same scan? Cause I don't think we are. Where do you even see Naruto touching his own Rasengan let alone the flames on the side of it. Naruto never touches the shuriken part of his FRS, so why in the world would he be touching it here?

Not going to happen. He's faster than he was against Minato for 1. 2- He didn't even have knowledge on the ability completely. Even Bee countered Minato when they had better knowledge on the ability.(

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). Same thing happens to Tobirama.

Pfft, that excuse. Can't take you seriously anymore.​

What excuse that i wasn't serious? L00l stop i already countered it completely. So i ask you why didn't Gaara sand get effected by Mei's water or Ei's Ration?

 

[KidGamer65]

Not going to happen. He's faster than he was against Minato for 1. 2- He didn't even have knowledge on the ability completely. Even Bee countered Minato when they had better knowledge on the ability.(

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). Same thing happens to Tobirama.

Bold 1 is false and irrelevant. When you can get evidence of Ay being any faster then we can talk. Its also irrelevant since no matter how fast he is, once Tobirama is in the same position Minato was in, Ay won't be doing shit at all.

They knew of his jutsu, don't try and make petty excuses. Ay was in motion and couldn't react, thus he needed B to save him. Simple as that. What B did doesn't let me believe that Ay can do it when in the position he was in vs. Minato when the manga already showed the outcome.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Bold 1 is false and irrelevant. When you can get evidence of Ay being any faster then we can talk. Its also irrelevant since no matter how fast he is, once Tobirama is in the same position Minato was in, Ay won't be doing shit at all.

They knew of his jutsu, don't try and make petty excuses. Ay was in motion and couldn't react, thus he needed B to save him. Simple as that. What B did doesn't let me believe that Ay can do it when in the position he was in vs. Minato when the manga already showed the outcome.

Ei is clearly faster now seeing as he didn't even have v2 back then df? Actually he would since he's faster and already has experience with ftg users. Let's say he couldn't react and he gets tagged Tobirama is going to have to get close to attack and once he does it's game over for Tobirama all it will take is one punch.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ei is clearly faster now seeing as he didn't even have v2 back then df?

Ay disagrees. He said that was his top speed punch and that Naruto and Minato are the only ones to evade his top speed punch. Meaning the same speed that Naruto evaded was the same speed Minato evaded.

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The only reason you'd believe he doesn't have V2 is because his hair isn't spiked up, which is because the headband holds it down. Not to mention there is no real "V2" version of the armor. Its just Ay pumping more chakra into it, allowing him to go faster.

Actually he would since he's faster and already has experience with ftg users. Let's say he couldn't react and he gets tagged Tobirama is going to have to get close to attack and once he does it's game over for Tobirama all it will take is one punch.

1. He's not faster.

2. He already knew about Hiraishin and still failed.

3. Ay isn't going to react to any Hiraishin attacks, period, forget about him punching Tobirama before the latter can hit him.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Ay disagrees. He said that was his top speed punch and that Naruto and Minato are the only ones to evade his top speed punch. Meaning the same speed that Naruto evaded was the same speed Minato evaded.

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The only reason you'd believe he doesn't have V2 is because his hair isn't spiked up, which is because the headband holds it down. Not to mention there is no real "V2" version of the armor. Its just Ay pumping more chakra into it, allowing him to go faster.

Pure speculation. Ei clearly gets faster once v2 is active he was telling Naruto than him and Minato dodged his full speed never did he say or even imply that he was moving at the same speeds. RED- You clearly just said Ei pumps more chakra in vs allowing him to go faster.

1. He's not faster.

2. He already knew about Hiraishin and still failed.

3. Ay isn't going to react to any Hiraishin attacks, period, forget about him punching Tobirama before the latter can hit him.

Tobirama without ftg isn't faster than Ei. Also just because someone is faster doesn't mean you cannot land a blow on someone in every thread you act as if your a little faster than someone they cannot land a blow stop with that logic please.

 

[KidGamer65]

Pure speculation. Ei clearly gets faster once v2 is active he was telling Naruto than him and Minato dodged his full speed never did he say or even imply that he was moving at the same speeds. RED- You clearly just said Ei pumps more chakra in vs allowing him to go faster.

Are we reading the same manga?

"

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"

Minato is the first, and when Minato evaded his punch, he said:

"He avoided my full speed"

Minato evaded Ay's full speed. Naruto evaded the same punch, which is Ay's full speed.


That's not speculation. That's fact. V2 has never once been mentioned in this manga for Ay. Once again, that's fact.

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"Raikage's chakra is still growing!"

All that is is the increase of chakra being used by Ay. There is no "V2". So saying Ay didn't have it makes no sense, as its something he has always known how to do, pump chakra. V2 is only a term fans refer to it as. Don't know what the bold is about. I never said that Ay doesn't go faster, I just said that V2 isn't a mode, its just Ay increasing his chakra, pumping more of it into his Raiton Armor, which makes him go faster.

When you can get me some real evidence that Ay got any faster, then we can talk.

Tobirama without ftg isn't faster than Ei. Also just because someone is faster doesn't mean you cannot land a blow on someone in every thread you act as if your a little faster than someone they cannot land a blow stop with that logic please.

1. Never said that he was. Are you even reading my posts at this point?

2. Lol, what are you even talking about? You are implying that Tobirama is going to teleport to Ay with Hiraishin, and that Ay is going to react and punch him. Which is a load of BS. Minato already got Ay's back and was about to put a Kunai through his back until Killer B saved him. Tobirama does the same thing, marks him, and then teleports right behind Ay via the markings (Along with clones) and they all hit him in the back with Suidanha. When you can provide me a scan that doesn't show Ay getting shitted on by Hiraishin, then we can talk about him hitting Tobirama before he instantly teleports to his back and hits him with his jutsu.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Are we reading the same manga?

"

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"

Minato is the first, and when Minato evaded his punch, he said:

"He avoided my full speed"

Minato evaded Ay's full speed. Naruto evaded the same punch, which is Ay's full speed.


That's not speculation. That's fact. V2 has never once been mentioned in this manga for Ay. Once again, that's fact.

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"Raikage's chakra is still growing!"

All that is is the increase of chakra being used by Ay. There is no "V2". So saying Ay didn't have it makes no sense, as its something he has always known how to do, pump chakra. V2 is only a term fans refer to it as. Don't know what the bold is about. I never said that Ay doesn't go faster, I just said that V2 isn't a mode, its just Ay increasing his chakra, pumping more of it into his Raiton Armor, which makes him go faster.

When you can get me some real evidence that Ay got any faster, then we can talk.






1. Never said that he was. Are you even reading my posts at this point?

2. Lol, what are you even talking about? You are implying that Tobirama is going to teleport to Ay with Hiraishin, and that Ay is going to react and punch him. Which is a load of BS. Minato already got Ay's back and was about to put a Kunai through his back until Killer B saved him. Tobirama does the same thing, marks him, and then teleports right behind Ay via the markings (Along with clones) and they all hit him in the back with Suidanha. When you can provide me a scan that doesn't show Ay getting shitted on by Hiraishin, then we can talk about him hitting Tobirama before he instantly teleports to his back and hits him with his jutsu.

Off-topic Was that wall of text really needed i mean i kept my argument short because i don't feel reading through walls of text i thought we had the debate down to the deciding factors here.

All he said was his speed punch didn't say it was his fastest punch. V2 does increase his speed seeing as Raikage quickly used v2 once Sasuke activated his Ms because he already knew how deadly Amaterasu was.(

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). Cee pretty much confirms it here that not only he went v2 because of Ms. The more chakra the faster he gets.(

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).

Little lazy so let's get down to the deciding factors here which is Tobirama piercing water tech and Ei armor v2.

 

[Haizaki]

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"Raikage's chakra is still growing!"

All that is is the increase of chakra being used by Ay. There is no "V2". So saying Ay didn't have it makes no sense, as its something he has always known how to do, pump chakra. V2 is only a term fans refer to it as. Don't know what the bold is about. I never said that Ay doesn't go faster, I just said that V2 isn't a mode, its just Ay increasing his chakra, pumping more of it into his Raiton Armor, which makes him go faster.

Could have repped you for this point.