I'm pretty sure Azula's a sociopath(kind of like a Dennis Reynolds but much more willing to hurt people herself) and Iroh knows she's irredeemable, despite her few saving grace moments. Kind of the way Dr. Loomis felt about Michael Myers.
Here you are already IMO making a wrong description of Iroh. You describe him as a passive, morally god, wise and unbiased person and then consequently try to show he is not like that, but frankly Iroh IMO never was like that in the first place nor was he shown like that nor do I doubt he would ever describe himself as such.Uncle Iroh is the passive character yes? Totally unbiased, wise and morally good. He single-handedly led Zuko from crazed honourless Avatar hunter to world saviour over the course of three seasons....so....why did he never do the same to Azula?
Not her birth father? Both Azula and Zuko are 100% blood relatives and the children of Ozai and Ursa. Azula however took more after Ozai, Azulon and Sozin, while Zuko then took after his mother and avatar Roku. This wasn't just a matter of influence as it was already shown when they were kids how different Azula and Zuko were. They didn't became like that due to influence, it's the exact opposite: because of how they were, their parents spent more time with one than with the other. At one point Azula said her mother thought she was a monster. Well yeah how come? Because she was one. Already when she was a kid acting like a cruel bully and talking about monstrous things, clearly to the dismay of her mother, however she did not bother whatsoever to change to gain Ursa's affection. This is something Zuko tried to do for nearly 3 seasons: gain his father approval."She's crazy, and she needs to go down."
―Iroh speaking to Zuko about Azula.
I understand that Azula was more influenced by her father than her mother (Ozai was proud of power naturally) and considering she never inherited any of his genes (not her birth father) the only thing wrong Azula ever did at the start was being naturally strong- that was it. Uncle Iroh crosses paths with her a few times but is so instantly determined that she is a lost cause. Why?
She wasn't, she wasn't even remotely in a similar state as zuko when she was introduced as. Even though it didn't became immediately clear as what kind of person Zuko was from the very first moment, already during the very few first episodes it became apparent that there was more to him than just being a 'villain' and during the course of all three seasons he continuously changed. Azula however did not change at all till Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her at the Boiling Rock. Fact is Zuko and Azula have never been the same. Azula had everything, while Zuko had to struggle all the time, even long before the moment the series started. How Azula was at the end of the series is probably the closest she ever was to how Zuko was at the beginning.She was in a similar state to Zuko morally at the beginning of her introduction and her breakdown that ensues later due to her mother issues is something that would've likely happened to Zuko if he was shunned by his uncle. Iroh believes that people can change and do good and yet he didn't have a single second of sympathy for the girl?
And it's not as if she was at any point an absolute unredeemable monster- her character in her youth showed signs of elitism but was still friendly even. Her mother never had time for Azula and from what we saw in flashbacks mostly spent her time lecturing Azula. Zuko was weaker and so got special treatment from their mother which forced Azula onto her father, forcing this terrible maniac as her role model. I'm not saying she's a saint, i'm saying she could've been saved.
I don't think you should search too much behind those scenes regarding Azula. This is something pretty much everyone must have seen when being in school. Certain people hang always around other people, while you can clearly see they are not real friends, still they hang out. Why? Because they don't want to be alone or for other reasons, like fear. What did Mai say at the Boiling Rock? That she loves Zuko more than she fears Azula. That latter was absolutely not necessary to say, but still she did it. Azula even responded on it that she should have feared her more and Ty Lee knocked Azula out because she was very well aware she would potentially kill Mai. Also when Azula tried to recruit Ty Lee, the latter refused. And what did Azula? Pretty much threatened her with death. Mai and Ty Lee are probably the closest thing to what Azula ever had as friends and she had a certain affection for them, but it was still something very differently than what you would understand under real friends. Saying that she considered them as being elite faithful subordinates would probably be more accurate.In the episode 'Prayers of Ember Island' we follow the Fire Nation teens in their escape to a temporary social life, the treatment of Azula in this episode is VERY strange. She has moments of being her usual manipulative self but she also treats many of her comrades as actual friends for once. Sincerely apologising to Ty Lee for making her cry and admitting she is jealous of her. (WHAT)
She is open and mature with Zuko when he is ranting about his life, asking him who he is truly mad at and whether it's her. She also shows many attempts at fitting into a normal, friendly life- her upbringing ultimately failing her, but she TRIED. This episode clearly shows she isn't the monster the plot needs her to be, there's clearly a lot more there. She's a sympathetic character and one that strongly needed help, but unlike every other character never received it.
Which is why I doubt Iroh could have helped her in any way. She would've rejected him at every turn. She was always disrespectful of him, and even tried to kill him.I don't disagree. But if this scene wasn't playing out so tragically I would put it to rest.
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Azula was a terrible, horrible person. She would have set the world aflame and laughed over the broken carcass of her brother.
But she was fourteen.
She was so ruined and twisted by her childhood and by her nation, driven to insanity by the expectations placed upon her.
I agree actually, though it would've been nice to have seen one scene where he at least reflected on how sad it was rather than kinda dark reaction he had towards her in that hut. Zuko really wasn't that different, just with some desperation thrown in there.Which is why I doubt Iroh could have helped her in any way. She would've rejected him at every turn. She was always disrespectful of him, and even tried to kill him.
The first time they were on screen together established their relationship pretty well if you ask me.I agree actually, though it would've been nice to have seen one scene where he at least reflected on how sad it was rather than kinda dark reaction he had towards her in that hut. Zuko really wasn't that different, just with some desperation thrown in there.
It still sits oddly though. Though gotta say, for a childrens cartoon aired on Nickelodeon to still have people like us discussing it in detail like 10 years later deserves props.
She did reject him, that's one of the things I explained in my post :T_T:Which is why I doubt Iroh could have helped her in any way. She would've rejected him at every turn. She was always disrespectful of him, and even tried to kill him.
If it's any consolation, I did read through all that.She did reject him, that's one of the things I explained in my post :T_T:
If she would have really wanted it, I believe she could have been different. Then again that would pretty much ruin both her as Zuko's character as one of the reasons Zuko is Zuko is because Azula is how she is.If it's any consolation, I did read through all that.
I don't think there was any sort of way for her to be "helped," other than being betrayed and defeated in the way she was.
Yknow 'The Search' comic really goes into Azula and Zuko's relationship and reveals a LOT about their bond with their mother. Also revealing that Ozai was not their birth father. Honestly I can understand you guys points about how Azula may be a lost cause during Book 1/Book 2 time but back when there really was no reason for her to become so twisted. She was pushed onto her father as her inspiration because their mother clearly took a preference for underdog Zuko.If she would have really wanted it, I believe she could have been different. Then again that would pretty much ruin both her as Zuko's character as one of the reasons Zuko is Zuko is because Azula is how she is.
Of all the characters I'm really curious the most about how she eventually ended up as she was completely stripped of her 'sense of living'.
It has been a while since I read the Search story, but again Ozai is their birth father, if my memory serves correctly Ursa lied about Akeem being Zuko's father and Ozai was really both their father.Yknow 'The Search' comic really goes into Azula and Zuko's relationship and reveals a LOT about their bond with their mother. Also revealing that Ozai was not their birth father. Honestly I can understand you guys points about how Azula may be a lost cause during Book 1/Book 2 time but back when there really was no reason for her to become so twisted. She was pushed onto her father as her inspiration because their mother clearly took a preference for underdog Zuko.
Kid Azula's only crime was being born powerful. And it's tragic how she didn't receive the same treatment from their mother and was pushed onto their father who glamourised power and would actually recognise not lecture her. And IMO elements of that remain throughout the series.
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