[Theory] Karura and Naga

[Rabbit Teth]

Karura and Naga

While I’m pretty new to this site, I’ve been writing theories about the statues that appear in Naruto for as long as anybody. Over the last dozen or more chapters all of those theories have been developing rapidly.

For this theory I wanted to bridge the gap between two of my more recent ideas... one about the Ootsutsuki and how they tie in with five statues that have Buddhist resonance and the other about Orochimaru. In particular I wanted to address the meaning of the Statue that I attribute to Hagoromo in those theories (bottom right):

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A lot of theories connect that statue to a Japanese legend of a man called Sojobo. Certainly there are a lot of parallels to these legends from the design of certain tengus like the Yamabushi and Karasu outside the fire temple:

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; the chakra constructs of Asura and Indra:

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; the Sage’s Bashōsen (an artifact associated with Sojobo):

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; or the Kyuubi’s name, Kurama (where Sojobo lived):

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While there are parallels between the legend of Sojobo and certain characters, names and powers in the manga, I do not think that the statue in the fire temple is a statue of Sojobo. Instead I think it is a statue of Karura.

Karura is a figure borrowed from Hinduism and the original Garuda that was imported to Japan alongside Buddhism. He is a giant man-bird, with golden feathers who breathes fire. Over time the legend of the Garuda and the Amida Triad have become intertwined as Karura is now considered a manifestation of Kannon and the Amida Sanzon.

I think that this statue represents Hagoromo within the Story. The pose he strikes and the way he holds his staff fits with the imagery of Hagoromo and Amida:
Hagoromo – lotus position / staff:

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Karura – lotus position / staff:

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Karura is also said to personify the blazing light of the sun (his mythology overlaps with that of the Phoenix). Amida is translates as the [Buddha of the] Infiinite Light and Hagoromo’s symbol is the Sun:

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Statue of Karura:

Spoiler

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Theory (possible spoilers)

Spoiler

What is interesting is the role Karura plays within Buddhist and Hindu legends. Karura is engaged in an endless struggle with Naga… the great snake. I think that Naga is Orochimaru and that this statue is what connects two of my earlier theories, one on the five Buddhist Statues and the other about Orochimaru:
Five Statues

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Orochimaru

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Parallels

Karura feeds on the snakes and serpents of the world:

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Karura is said to carry a pearl, called the Nyoi Hōju, which was stolen from the head of the King of Dragons. I think that this pearl is what the Kannon Statue, Gamamaru and Hiruzen are all seen carrying:
Hiruzen

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Gamamaru:

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Senju Kannon:

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Karura is said to cure the world of Snake Poison:

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NB I explain in my earlier theories how I think that both Hamura and Kaguya might have been previous victims of Oro’s cursed seal in the past. Here are two examples from those theories of how the Snake and Cursed Seal imagery has crept into both Kaguya and the Shinigami:
Kaguya as a flying serpent?

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Hamura/Shinigami with Cursed Seal?

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Statue of the King of Dragons:

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Oro as Naga?

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Symbolic foreshadowing

The Snake (Oro) eats the Rabbit (Kaguya – the Rabbit Goddess):

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….Yep that's where I took my avatar from

The Hawk (Karura / Amida / Hagoromo) is destined to eat the Snake:

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Sasuke wasn’t truly a hawk when he “killed” Orochimaru, he still had Oro’s venom inside him

But guess who Sasuke’s Hawk is…

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Look closely and you’ll see the hawk has Hagoromo’s Rinnegan.

Hagoromo was looking out for both Naruto and Sasuke:

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One last final note is that Karura is already a character in Naruto. She is Gaara’s mother. While I don’t expect Gaara’s mum to play any further significant role I do expect the real world symbolism of Karura, the god, to play a role in the story.
Gaara’s mum

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… Karura will always protect you.

...As for Naga

Compare this (Naga):

Spoiler

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With this (Orochimaru)

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[Pythagorean]

The hawk didn't have rinnegan...

 

[ROHAN]

Pretty amazing. I am pretty sure that the hawk represnts Hagoromo in a way. Though I think that Garuda and Sobojo are the same thing.

If you look at this way :-

Orochimaru, the serpent eats Kaguya, the rabbit as revenge for his curse placed on him by the Shinju.

Sobojo, the hawk eats Orochimaru the serpent as revenge for eating Kaguya his lover.

Unbelievavly, this pattern is also present in Norse mythology considering Yaggarsdil.

And we have seen Itachi using Susanoo to defeat Orochimaru and this even happens in Japanese legend.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

The hawk didn't have rinnegan...

I beg to differ - there are too many circles in the eye on that hawk.

Hagoromo already claims to have been watching the transmigrating souls of his sons:

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The Rinnegan appears on a couple of occasions throughout the Manga. Usually one or both appear watching over Naruto. I think that Hagoromo was watching Sasuke through his hawk - a symbolic link to his statue.

Pretty amazing. I am pretty sure that the hawk represnts Hagoromo in a way. Though I think that Garuda and Sobojo are the same thing.

If you look at this way :-

Orochimaru, the serpent eats Kaguya, the rabbit as revenge for his curse placed on him by the Shinju.

Sobojo, the hawk eats Orochimaru the serpent as revenge for eating Kaguya his lover.

Unbelievavly, this pattern is also present in Norse mythology considering Yaggarsdil.

And we have seen Itachi using Susanoo to defeat Orochimaru and this even happens in Japanese legend.

I think it's pretty cool and shows up all those people who talk about these latest developments being asspulls. Kishi has been working these messages into the manga from the start. It also appears at the heart of a lot of images of the Samsara (the wheel of life in Buddhism which often also shows the Six Realms):

Spoiler

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Sojobo is a much younger retelling of the story of Garuda / Karura (the japanese name). There is overlap but the story of Karura ties more closely with Kannon and Seishi (Kaguya and Hamura). At least that's the way I conceived this. There are stacks of parallels to Sojobo as well though.

 

[ROHAN]

Agreed, Kishi has planned the story from the start and is combining many aspects of various religions. People take incomplete information without waiting for the next chapters and call them asspulls.

 

[so12p]

Interesting, but I doubt Orochimaru has any further major role. His part in the story is done. To reinsert him now would be rehashing the story.

Kishimoto consisting pulls ideas from all sorts of religions, changes them, mixes them, and generally uses them however he wants to his convenience.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

Interesting, but I doubt Orochimaru has any further major role. His part in the story is done. To reinsert him now would be rehashing the story.

Kishimoto consisting pulls ideas from all sorts of religions, changes them, mixes them, and generally uses them however he wants to his convenience.

Oro's story could have ended with Sasuke 'killing' him the first time. Oro came back however. If you go looking (and I cover all this in the theory I link to above, and reproduced for convenience below) - then you can see how Oro ties in with Transmigration, the collection of souls / white zetsus, the recurring and as yet untold story of Ryuchido / Juugo's clan and the experiments that all trace back to the Sage of Six Paths' many descendants. I can't say with any certainty that the theories are correct but there's a mountain of material to suggest that Oro isn't done yet even if he is apparently under the control of Infinite Tsukuyomi at the moment.

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[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

3 things that reading this theory raised to me, was nothing about the theory...

how did sasuke get the hawk?
and what did hashirama want sasuke to stand in front of him for? was it to give him a technique oradvice or tell him madara's weakness?
why didn't sasuke help hashi remove the black rods? bit of a dickish move there sasuke

 

[ROHAN]

Robotic : Sobojo is connected to Hawks and Crows. Sobojo is the source of the Sharingan's power or to be precise "Corruption". Considering that it makes sense that Sauske will be symbolized by Hawks.

Rabbit : Combining your Theory with mine, pretty much establishes that Orochimaru is gonna play a massive role in the upcoming chapters.

Spoiler

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[-ahhimane-]

Not a single manga character questioned about Sasuke's hawk having rinnegan. That itself proves that its not rinnegan. The hawk doesn't have rinnegan. The viewers must change their way to assume things on the basis of fanboyism and use their brains.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

3 things that reading this theory raised to me, was nothing about the theory...

how did sasuke get the hawk?
and what did hashirama want sasuke to stand in front of him for? was it to give him a technique oradvice or tell him madara's weakness?
why didn't sasuke help hashi remove the black rods? bit of a dickish move there sasuke

1. How did Sasuke get his Hawk?

I don't know, it's never been addressed. Sasuke has had it since the very first chapter and it turns up in a couple of the colour spreads:

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It was also the name of his team for a while but where it comes from only Kishi knows. One of the Six Realms is the Realm of Animals - it might tie in with other locations like Mount Myōboku (Frogs), Ryūchi Cave (Snakes) and the Shikkotsu Forest (slugs), which are all undefined locations. Generally speaking a contract is made between the species being summoned and the summoner while the animal has a say in who gets to summon it. The Symbol used in Kuchiyose no Jutsu is the Dharmacakra which is another symbol of the cycle of life and death also present in the Samsara (again associated with the Six Realms):

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Dharmacakra

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2. What did Hashirama want Sasuke to stand in front of him for? Was it to give him a technique or advice or tell him Madara's weakness?

Not sure on this one either. The only idea I've got is that the ability to switch places with objects might have been a technique handed down from Hagoromo to both Hashirama and Sasuke. Hashirama should not have been able to fool Madara with wood clones since Madara claimed to be able to see through these. When Madara slashed a wood clone and the real Hashirama surprised him from behind I think it might be possible that Hashirama used the same technique that Sasuke has been using… of course Sasuke's power comes from his eye and Hashirama didn't have a Sharingan / Rinnegan so that idea is at best unproven.
Unspecified Jutsu to help Sasuke seal Madara

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Madara can see through wood clones

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A lot of people have put the trick down to Madara not having his eyes activated when Hashirama caught him by surprise. I can only speculate but I think Hashirama being able to swap like Sasuke might explain Madara’s surprise.
Madara fooled by Hashirama

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3. Why didn’t Sasuke help Hashirama remove the black rods?

Because Sasuke is a ****. It’s part of his character, it’s who he is. Stangely enough there is some symbolism to this as well. Sasuke has been foreshadowed to carry the Vajra and the weapon is linked to Indra. In some of its manifestations it is said to represent the conquest over the five poisons of Desire, Hatred, Delusion, Pride and Envy (all of which Sasuke has displayed). The same message is symbolized by the Five Skulls on top of the Senju Kannon and by the Senju Symbol of the 5 pronged Vajra:
Vajra (normally 3 pronged as in e.g. 2 but also displayed as a double ended mace in e.g.1)

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Senju Kannon expelling the five poisons

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Senju Symbol of the Vajra (five pronged)

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Vajra background

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Not a single manga character questioned about Sasuke's hawk having rinnegan. That itself proves that its not rinnegan. The hawk doesn't have rinnegan. The viewers must change their way to assume things on the basis of fanboyism and use their brains.

I'm not saying that the Hawk is actually Hagoromo. I'm saying that the hawk displaying Hagoromo's eyes is symbolic of Hagoromo watching out for Sasuke - in the same way that the Rinnegan randomly appeared in previous chapters watching out for Naruto. We weren't in a position to understand these random occurrences before, but now I think we are. The Rinnegan have a shared field of vision - it would make sense for Kishi to have Sasuke's hawk as the means by which Hagoromo spied on Sasuke. It's a rhetorical device rather than a signifier that the Hawk could use Chibaku Tensei.

 

[-ahhimane-]

I'm not saying that the Hawk is actually Hagoromo. I'm saying that the hawk displaying Hagoromo's eyes is symbolic of Hagoromo watching out for Sasuke - in the same way that the Rinnegan randomly appeared in previous chapters watching out for Naruto. We weren't in a position to understand these random occurrences before, but now I think we are. The Rinnegan have a shared field of vision - it would make sense for Kishi to have Sasuke's hawk as the means by which Hagoromo spied on Sasuke. It's a rhetorical device rather than a signifier that the Hawk could use Chibaku Tensei.

WTS (What the sh*t) I just read?
AMEN........U_U

 

[ROHAN]

So to add on to my previoud post, I will use Norse Mythology.

When the Dragon Nidhogg tires of eating the bodies of the dead, he gnaws the roots of Yggdrasil hoping to kill the mighty tree.

Ratatosk, the mischevious squirrel, travels up and down Yggdrasil's carrying insults between the Great Eagle that roosts in Yggdrasil's crown to Nidhogg at it's lowest root.

Here also we see a few similarities :-

Yggdrasil is the God Tree or Shinju.

Nidhogg, the Dragon is the Serpent or to be more specific, Orochimaru.

Ratatosk, the Squirrel is the Rabbit Goddess, Kaguya.

The Great Eagle is Garuda or Sobojo, The Tengu God.

 

[RinneBlitz]

Karura is Gaara's mother.

/thread =D

 

[Jack Spicer]

Shout out to Korra's polar bear dog.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

So to add on to my previoud post, I will use Norse Mythology.

When the Dragon Nidhogg tires of eating the bodies of the dead, he gnaws the roots of Yggdrasil hoping to kill the mighty tree.

Ratatosk, the mischevious squirrel, travels up and down Yggdrasil's carrying insults between the Great Eagle that roosts in Yggdrasil's crown to Nidhogg at it's lowest root.

Here also we see a few similarities :-

Yggdrasil is the God Tree or Shinju.

Nidhogg, the Dragon is the Serpent or to be more specific, Orochimaru.

Ratatosk, the Squirrel is the Rabbit Goddess, Kaguya.

The Great Eagle is Garuda or Sobojo, The Tengu God.

A lot of Norse mythology has parallels with Eastern mythology because of the old trade routes. You end up with a two-way chain of Chinese whispers as stories were swapped between people moving back and forth from East to West. You could link a lot more of the old Norse tales to Naruto as well.

Odin would be Hagoromo. He’s the king of the gods and he uses two ravens to bring him the news from the world.

Thor would be Sasuke. Thor is the god of thunder in Norse mythology which gives him the same role as Indra or Susanoo (both thunder gods and associated with Sasuke). Mjolnir is the equivalent to Vajra. Generally Thor is a bit of **** in most Norse legends, drinking too much and getting into trouble, which is sort of Sasuke like. He usually sets things straight in the end.

Tyr and Baldr correspond to Naruto. Tyr is a lesser known god but he was very important. He is famous for trapping (sealing) the wolf Fenrir (a giant wolf who was Loki’s son). Baldr is the god of light and the true hero of most Norse legends. His death ushers in Ragnarok (the End Times) but he is said to be reborn and start the world anew. Baldr is the god who we get the word Bold from – which sort of ties in with Naruto’s Ninja way.

A lot of people wouldn’t be very familiar with any of these gods (except Thor) but we name Tuesday (Tyr’s day), Wednesday (Wodin or Odin’s day) and Thursday (Thor’s day) after them.

Yggdrasil corresponds to the Shinju. It is the bridge between the nine realms.

Loki would be the equivalent to Black Zetsu or Orochimaru. He is the god of mischief (and not in a fun way). Some of his stories are hilarious even now – he goes about drinking, picking fights he can’t win, insulting people … at one point he takes the form of a horse, gets pregnant and gives birth to an eight legged horse. His children are the cause of the end of the world – Fenrir (the wolf sealed by Tyr) eats Odin, Jörmungandr (a giant snake) eats the world and Hel (his daughter – think two face from batman except a woman) rules over … well, you can guess where since we name it after her.

All of the Norse god’s have their equivalents across Asia. Naruto tends to borrow more from those Asian equivalents. The design, symbolism and associated stories are distinct from the European tales but still the similarities are there.

----

Anyway back to the topic at hand. The closest match I could find to the temple in the Lava Dimension is a building called Wat Arun, a Buddhist temple in Bangkok. The Garuda (Karura) is the emblem of Thailand and the temple is dedicated to the same mythology.

 

[ROHAN]

Umm, did you read Vega''s threads on the castles ?

And I got all the Norse mythology referencres from Age of Mythology.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

Umm, did you read Vega''s threads on the castles ?

And I got all the Norse mythology referencres from Age of Mythology.

It was a good thread. I disagreed with him over what the inspirations for the buildings were but I haven't seen any other threads even try to name the buildings. I'll be interested to see whether we get to see inside either of those temples. Wat Arun is sort of devoted to the rising sun and Hagia Sophia (the one that I thought the other building was on his thread) is related to the Crescent Moon. I was going to repost on his thread but I couldn't remember his or its name.

Naruto might as well be of viking stock with his blond hair. I had an old teacher who used to wander off during class and tell us the old myths and legends. Naruto doesn't feel like you're being taught religion but it's taken a lot from real world beliefs.

 

[ROHAN]

While many people may call this coincidence, Kishi directly represented Sobojo in the manga recently :-

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Similar much ?

Look at the Armour plates, the Jewel on the Forehead, The Wings, the long nose, the clothes and the hair. Sobojo and Sauske's Susanoo are complete duplicates of each other.

And Sauske has the Moon seal, is connected with hawks and Susanoo is called "Destruction Incarnate".

The above are all the traits of Sobojo.

 

[Xāvî1]

Oops i accidently posted the thanks!! XD

Thats not a rinnegan