This land is mine

[Masterpiece7]

And you believe this crap?

You prefer to believe their crap? Do you actually praise their actions ? Using human shields ? Suicide terrorists ? Breaking the 6 hour cease-fire agreement?

 

[Gintõki1]

You prefer to believe their crap? Do you actually praise their actions ? Using human shields ? Suicide terrorists ? Breaking the 6 hour cease-fire agreement?

That's all made up by Israel too make it look like they are the victim.
Always interesting when they cry hamas attacked them, while no one died nor something really big happend.

 

[Masterpiece7]

That's all made up by Israel too make it look like they are the victim.
Always interesting when they cry hamas attacked them, while no one died nor something really big happend.

Made up?! Are you kidding me?! I live in Israel! I've seen this horror in my eyes,I'm not a Zionist but I'm a Jewish and I'm deeply offended when someone calls me a terrorist or something like that.
They cry for the show,I seen an interview with a mother of a suicide bomber and she said she is PROUD of him and that she's glad he exploded ! People like that needs a rocket to the face.

 

[6ari8]

Made up?! Are you kidding me?! I live in Israel! I've seen this horror in my eyes,I'm not a Zionist but I'm a Jewish and I'm deeply offended when someone calls me a terrorist or something like that.
They cry for the show,I seen an interview with a mother of a suicide bomber and she said she is PROUD of him and that she's glad he exploded ! People like that needs a rocket to the face.

 

[Aim64C]

I would like to think that when someone says Europeans, that includes Americans which are an offshoot. I too dont like to take sides either, as there is no good side (Though I would prefer to side with people who are on my side) .... but the Islamic Extremists ARE more dangerous than the Americans who can be reasoned with, so I too would rather have the more dangerous threat erased first.

Huh... Did Kobak delete his posts, or a mod did, or something? I'm seeing his posts indirectly, here, and I don't block people (... is that even an option on these boards?)

Anyway.

When I say European politics - I mean European politics.

The people who left Europe and founded the United States (or who immigrated to it later, as my German ancestors did) changed, considerably, from the political structure of Europe.

Sadly, America has started to return to the same style of politics (it's what happens when people are born into countries, I am beginning to think).

America is (or was) unlike any other country in that there are no lords over your decisions. Any skill you have - any resource on the property you bought/own through 'squatter's rights'/etc can be used by you as you will, so long as you are not using force to harm others. Gold on your property? It's yours, and even those who do not own any gold or have any such 'luck' in terms of riches will (or would) stand up against those who would try to take it from you.

We were a nation that believed generosity came from the bounty of the heart as opposed to an attitude of contempt for wealth/disparity. We believed that the individual was responsible for his/her life - that he/she only had to answer to society when committing grave acts of violence/abuse.

Keep in mind that many of them had been thrown in jail in Europe for writing a bad check or who fell on hard economic times before being harassed by tax collectors who were continually snooping through their property to assess their value.

America was a country that believed it was more evil to concern yourself with your neighbor's income/status than it was to seek to improve your own status.

I wish that you lived in a war thorn contry and that someone killed your family in front of your eyes

bastard

And this would somehow make me sympathize with you?

My parents are, in fact, dead. Does that tickle your fancy, any?

Once again - I look at the world relatively differently. So you live in a war-torn country. Why?

So your parents were killed in front of your eyes. What are you going to do about it?

This is why Europeans are so easy to spin-up into killing each other. There is almost always some point in time where you can point back and place some kind of blame on another group of people. It's like what Americans used to call the "Hatfields and McCoy's" - 150 years ago, someone stole a pig (or shot a pig...) and the succeeding chain of events led to families fighting and killing each other for generations. Over a damned pig. (or maybe it was a cow... hell if I remember).

Usually, it happens when bad economic practices lead to widespread poverty (what happens in fiat currency systems because you can't give a centralized authority the power to print money and expect the people who run it to not abuse the system). Someone writes a book, maybe has gone to school, or something - stands up - and starts blaming one of the many groups to choose from. Perhaps it is easier to blame the Serbs at one point because they aren't in the same pickle. Perhaps it is easier to blame the Turks because they don't ever stay on their damned side of the hill.

So he starts some hateful speeches, saying that the problems are because of some group that either isn't suffering (and how dare they not share in the suffering) or has some tension dating back a few decades (so quite a few people might have lost relatives/loved ones at the hands of said group).

The politician promises security and a return to normal things, and rallies people for war against the cause of the problem because they look to be led around rather than to take charge of their own life/country. It's easier to blame others than it is to accept responsibility for your current state of affairs and make adjustments accordingly.

That pretty much describes the Sarajevo. The shenanigans involving Kosovo. And Bosnia.

The reason why it is less frequent in other regions of the world is that Eastern Europe has not been as quick to develop modern industry and relative parity with the rest of Europe. Since not long after the fall of Rome, Europe has undergone a process of cleansing one group or another until it finally 'settled' into relatively defined borders. Few of them had major economic/industrial advantages over the other and the populations were homogenous enough to make it difficult to expand territory by inciting racial tensions.

That is the purpose of a border where one side is one group of people and the other side is another group of people. It was a 'natural' social adaptation to the tendency of politicians to use racial divides to gain power and territory. If the people who speak and look slightly different from you live on one side of line and don't really have much to do with how you live - it's much more difficult for a politician to use those people to blame for your problems.

Unless the pass heavy economic sanctions on you - which is precisely how Hitler came to power.

Once again, rather than evaluating Germany's own failed economic practices; it was easier for a politician to pass blame off on 'everyone else' and convince the population that some killing needed to be done if they were going to be justly treated by the world.

That stuff used to not fly in America. The idea that someone else was going to handle your problems was insulting. People who came here from other countries quickly found that there was no reason to worry about what the neighbors were doing. They were going about living their life - and 'you' should go about living yours. The government used to be a limited entity with no power to step into the lives of the individual, and the individual had no real reason to vote for politicians promising them goodies (since it just didn't happen).

Obviously, that's changed - and our society is starting to reflect it.

He was in the military .... they tend to think in practical absolutes, nothing unexpected there. But given the power even he would wield it bit differently.

To be honest, the first thing I would do if I had the power is pretty much end most of what our federal government does. Even the military, I would cut back considerably (if not eliminate entirely; giving the national government only the authority to contract the services of state national guards and host joint training exercises between them).

I think the best way we could handle international politics militarily is to just allow businesses to contract defense services. We only go where people have the desire to pay to send us, and we're not there to pick any side but the one contracting the service. Maybe two of our companies will be contracted by conflicting sides and it will open up an unusual portal for mediation.

We inject ourselves into foreign situations without properly understanding what is going on. The American people want to help - but they just don't understand how, most of the time.

In the culture like I described above, you can't show up - kill the dictator - hand out ballots, and expect people to govern themselves. The culture of self-governance simply doesn't exist. It has always been a culture of compliance where those who speak of what would be considered 'free market' and 'self-governing' principles are considered kooks or some weird political scholar who fell off the bandwagon.

There are some Libertarian-like movements catching on throughout Europe (they are getting pretty fed up of failed fiat currencies and corrupt governing systems with virtually unlimited power) and even in parts of Russia - but it's a relatively alien concept to much of Europe.

Which is why 'bringing democracy' does not 'bring freedom.' It's also why the EU has been destined to the failure it's becoming - the culture is just not there for what amounts to a republic. At this rate, the EU will probably spiral into another set of wars between European nations.

Which is exactly what happened to Yugoslavia, exactly what is starting to happen in the United States, etc. The culture is simply not one that supports a model that requires elements of self-governance and individual responsibility.

They work when you have a dictator who is willing to smack the competing warlords upside the head. But once he's gone - it all falls to poopy.

 

[Anorien16]

We inject ourselves into foreign situations without properly understanding what is going on. The American people want to help - but they just don't understand how, most of the time.

In the culture like I described above, you can't show up - kill the dictator - hand out ballots, and expect people to govern themselves. The culture of self-governance simply doesn't exist. It has always been a culture of compliance where those who speak of what would be considered 'free market' and 'self-governing' principles are considered kooks or some weird political scholar who fell off the bandwagon.

There are some Libertarian-like movements catching on throughout Europe (they are getting pretty fed up of failed fiat currencies and corrupt governing systems with virtually unlimited power) and even in parts of Russia - but it's a relatively alien concept to much of Europe.

Which is why 'bringing democracy' does not 'bring freedom.' It's also why the EU has been destined to the failure it's becoming - the culture is just not there for what amounts to a republic. At this rate, the EU will probably spiral into another set of wars between European nations.

Which is exactly what happened to Yugoslavia, exactly what is starting to happen in the United States, etc. The culture is simply not one that supports a model that requires elements of self-governance and individual responsibility.

They work when you have a dictator who is willing to smack the competing warlords upside the head. But once he's gone - it all falls to poopy.

Basically you mean to say that these instabilities are a result of introducing system among a people who are not ready for it yet? .... That would make sense actually, there was case study for us where we studied what happened when the Credit system was introduced among a Tribal society ... the effects was most unpleasant. Guess this would be similar.

Meh, there is no easy, less bloody way out is there?

 

[Aim64C]

Basically you mean to say that these instabilities are a result of introducing system among a people who are not ready for it yet? .... That would make sense actually, there was case study for us where we studied what happened when the Credit system was introduced among a Tribal society ... the effects was most unpleasant. Guess this would be similar.

Meh, there is no easy, less bloody way out is there?

In a sense.

Islam, itself, is the greatest threat to the peace of its people.

When a religion sets within its pages that God commands men, as a general rule, to subjugate others in the name of God's will - it creates a fundamental problem. It basically empowers those who read the book to empower themselves with the idea that A) God concerns himself with the status of mortals as opposed to the character of mortals and B) that God demands you subjugate people to your interpretation of what God is commanding you to do.

While not every muslim subscribes to the temptation to believe that he/she is capable of knowing God's will - it makes for a very nice excuse among young men who wish to stake their claim to power and women.

Islam is set aside from Judaism and Christianity in its focus upon man's institutions (Judaism had the Scholars and the kings as separate entities up until you had the corrupt block of the Pharisee form... which Jesus directly contested the corrupt merger of religious leadership and political power).

This perpetually interferes with the development of any secular system of law that applies equally to all citizens, as Islam commands subjugation to Islam (hence the Jaziya or Jiziya - or whatever they call it).

Even when the more moderate groups begin to embrace more secular principles - the younger hot-heads seize the scriptures calling for bold acts of what much of the rest of the world considers militant behavior... and then you get ISIS executing imams that don't support what they're doing.

It's like the song that doesn't end - and many of the countries have let it into their borders without knowing what it was. And they'll end up with the same problems because it is the song that doesn't end. And it goes on and on without me caring to make it match the rhythm.

And that is precisely why Islam is fighting itself half the time. Don't agree? Claim Allah is on your side and blow people up.

Christianity and Judaism largely knocked that off once the printing press came about and stacked with common literacy. After that, it was mostly squabbles between the Catholics and the Protestants as the Catholics attempted to hold on to their pharisee-like institution they had built.

Granted - I can't say I back the Jewish people on every decision ever made (or Christians, for that matter) - but there's a certain pattern that follows consistently with Islam throughout the ages that seems to permeate event he cultural fabric of many nations. That suggests, to me, that it plays off of human instinct more so than anything else. Which goes back to young men believing they can claim multiple subjugate wives and kill people who contest their right to be dominant men.

The European culture is a little different. It largely boils down to far too many people waiting to be led or waiting to be handed a solution to problems as opposed to believing it to be within themselves to solve their own problems.

It's a far simpler problem to solve - and why Europeans adapted pretty well to the free system in America (and why many of them recognized the benefits of moving there). In a sense, though, the formation of America largely blunted the social evolution of Europe, I think. Many of the 'free thinkers' and those who were picking up the ideas of writers that most Americans don't even know the names of (but my foreign friends seem to say my ideas resonate with those ideologies) moved to America as opposed to endeavor to overhaul their own social norms and governing structures.

Basically - many of the ones who stayed behind were the ones who were content to be in the system they were in - and those most frustrated by it and who most sought it to change left for the country that most closely matched their view of the ideal nation (or, at least, what they heard about it did).

Asia is a bit more unique, culturally. Many of the populations there can trace their family lineages back centuries and view each other as one giant family. While that implies a sort of socialist/collectivist view - they don't actually behave or structure themselves according to socialism of collectivism. Or, at least, they don't mirror the western implementations of such.

I'm not entirely sure what to attribute it to.

Many of the Taoist scholars were what I would call the first Libertarians - long before the West began embracing such ideologies. They observed that the emperors who did the least to try and help their people (and the least to harm them) tended to have the most prosperous people - while those who were always trying to use their power to help their people had people who were worse off.

The Taoists often argued that the more you endeavored to make something happen - the worse you would make things. This seems to have influenced much of Asian culture in ways that are not directly attributed to Taoism but are hinted at when you pay close attention. Even if they are 'collectivist' - they are relatively non-interventionist about it. The 'family' is a sort of contextual lens as opposed to an actual social construct.

I think. My knowledge of Asian histories is still developing and my observations are somewhat premature hunches on my part.

And, as late as it is, I'm not really even sure I'm making sense or on topic.

 

[Anorien16]

Well .... you actually made sense in nearly all cases, rest I need to brush up to understand. But that statement .... "Many of the Taoist scholars were what I would call the first Libertarians - long before the West began embracing such ideologies. They observed that the emperors who did the least to try and help their people (and the least to harm them) tended to have the most prosperous people - while those who were always trying to use their power to help their people had people who were worse off." ..... this is something really serious to think about, I believe.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

*shrug*

I'm a practical person. The reality is that the arabs are impossible to reason with. While Israel may be very utilitarian in their manipulation of larger powers (they have been known to attempt to bait our military into war against other nations) - they can actually be reasoned with.

I do not understand the point of wishing for 'peace' between two parties, one of which will never be satisfied so long as there are two parties. Any such peace is only the preparation for the next round of war.

So just get it over with. Israel should drive 'palestine' into the sea and hunt them down to the last child if it wishes to survive. Since 'palestine' lacks the actual power to eliminate Israel - it is the responsibility of Israel to capitalize on the advantage to minimize total loss of life. Do not let them breed new generations that will snip and snipe a few lives at a time for dozens of years. Just up and eliminate them.

Sure - nations like Iran will get pretty pissed, and there will be arabs rioting in western nations who begin demanding some kind of affiliation with the caliphate (those that do should be tried and executed for treason) - but it will deny those countries a proxy through which to wage war against Israel.

Let Iran send its own militants and place its own name upon its attacks.

Because, realistically, this is not going to end at this rate. Hamas, despite whatever delusions it may have, is not capable of doing much more than pissing Israel off.

They accuse Israel of genocide. The world, today, does not know what genocide is. Stack the bodies so high that the last bodies to add to the pile must be dropped from a helicopter. Give them a lesson in what genocide and indiscriminate killing really looks like. Show them just how efficiently the modern weapons of war can dispose of people and cities.

Israel is never going to win hearts and minds. People have already chosen their side in this - and it's time to let the chips fall where they may.

Yea wonder what this guys reaction be if USA got nuked Oh vengeance !

 

[Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo]

It's sad that Hitler died before he could finish his work. I pray that he comes out of his grave and does his masterpiece again.
A world without zionsm = the bets thing that can happen to humanity.

Thank you dude . You summed everything . Today i've seen the most stupid members on this base . THIS IS NOT A WAR BUT COLONISATION YOU FCKS, is that bullied poser in glasses serious ??? You dont know shit about the palestinian conflict you ****ing brainwashed pawn. All Zionist supporters deserve to die / ZIONISTS ARE NOT JEWS

 

[Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo]

What right did Britain have to grant european Jews somebody else's country?
The jews have suffered, they were subject to regular discrimination at best and murder at worse.
The one place in the entire world that Jews were neither discriminated against, nor subject to pogrom, was the Muslim world. In fact so much was that the case that when Christianity came back to power in Spain in Andalusia in the Western extinct of the Islamic Empire; when the Muslims left the Jews left with them because they feared the Christian anti Semitism which would be unleashed in the wake of the departure of the Islamic civilization in the West....Palestine that was wipped of the map when Britain granted them somebody else's country had Jews living side by side with Christians and Muslims for century upon century without the slightest trace of discrimination or violence or pogrom.

So what's happened is that the Christian anti Semitism in Europe which massacred 6 million Jews in the greatest crime in human history was paid for NOT BY THE CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES IN EUROPE which either practiced or turned the blind eye to that anti Semitism but was paid by the very people who were completely innocent of that holocaust who had never persecuted the Jews, who had never pogromed the Jews, and that seems to me to add insult to the injury suffered by a people whose country was wiped off the map, who were at disperse into exile to make way for a Zionist idea which was granted to European Jews because these were the first settlers, granted to European Jews by Britain... It was long before the holocaust that Britain stepped in. Britain stepped in in 1917 with the Balfour Declaration made by the British Minister Balfour on our behalf to a group of atheistic Zionist Jews. I make the point about atheism because it's now claimed that it is some biblical land right as if God was an estate agent, ... the Zionists represented a tiny sliver of Jewish opinion at that time; yet, Balfour promised them the land which belonged to a third people without consulting either the British or the world's Jews, and least of all consulting the Palestinians...

It's always the same excuses without proof

-Hamas kill their own children by exposing them as human shield etc...
-Hamas started everything
-Hamas fire 3 paper rockets on nuclear reactor
-Hamas bomb themself and Israel is good and don't set up attentats

Bullshit.

ABC was caught using fake photos of attacks in Israel yesterday...I don't believe anything that terrorist state says or it's jew controlled media in USA..American medias expose Palestinians kids and civilians victims and present them as Isralis !

The proof against Israel are cristal clear.


I've seen all videos, pictures, articles and even a video subtitled about hamas admitting it that they use human shield untill somoene who speak arabic rekognized that the subtitle had nothing to do with what he was saying.Hamas doesn't claim to do it, and the documents that shows filmed from drones doesn't show anything especially at night vision.What would kid do in school if it was night? They take us for stupids. Isreal claim without shame that their goal is to eradicate all Palestianians childrens, mothers.Even their governments says it.



What's next? Hamas hide the massive weapons of destruction too?

Even if it was the case, you guys and especially americans people don't know Isreal's colonial final plan.

They're even at every edges of this Gaza prison. If kids are at home, they'll say human shield, if kids are outside they'll say human shield, if kids are in hospital they'll say human shield even when they claim that their goal is to kill Palestinians kids and mother include as said by Israel's government member Ayelet Shaked claimed what zionists think without hesitations : "Mothers and childrens of All Palestinians Must Be Killed".And there is still people who defend Israel as if they cared about innoncent humans life.The only explanation to defend Israel is because the people who defend Israel are against muslims.Even if Israel is wrong they'll support them as we see with USA the other trash government/army of humanity.These people have the right to kill anyone who is not jew, we are all Goyims (childrens and civilians include) and our purpose is to serve the jews. It's hallucining that people still defend the undefendable by whatever excuse they can find with hamas when there is millions of clear proof which most of them aren't exposed in TV to hide the truth and yet people still persist to find 2-3 pictures/articles and repeat the same excuses as Netanyahu about hamas doing this and that.


And you still have people saying no " it's because of human shield". As few days ago few kids playing in beach at the very edge of Gaza where it seems to be quiet and still people say human shield excuse or why kids are outside?Always hidding the fact by asking questions and finding excuses.In order to bomb these 2-3 poor kids they needed 3 ****ing bombs aimed on them. The 1st one : missed, 2nd one : missed and with the third they got their targets, the kids.


They shoot civilians with sniper like legos.







They use the same strategy called Warden's five rings like when americans terrorists soldiers invade and destroy other's countries.

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Israel's plan is going slowly in the way to creat the great Israel.Colonizing and exterminating Palestininan slowly is part of the plan too.When there is a quiet time they start to fire or invent a stories and blame the whole Palestianians for it and wait for Palestinian's resistant to replay and it's ready for an other round of massacre to continu the massacre and eradicate any trace of palestinian and it's been like that since the begining and it will continu as long as they achieve their goal.They just do it slowly because they don't want to wake up 1,5 billions of sleeping muslims. Muslims themself forget about Palestine.You'll see 1-2 month later they'll live their life as nothing happen. So i can say that it's pathetic, and zionists are doing their job perfectly while muslims are divided as never been, most of muslims countrie's leader are in good relation with Isreal and Western.Muslims people doesnt' feel concerned about it as they are busy with their little life, muslims even helps Israel when they buy their product Mc do, Coca Cola, Loreal etc... Muslims in the world need a huge wake up it start slowly with boycott. Israel do anything to keep muslism asleep so they keep them busy by making troubles in their countries, thougth medias lies, infiltrations and adding the muslims's internal problems and divisions it's too thing to deal with.

The greatests in history were against the creation of this terrorist state.

Even Israeli historians and pholosopher like Leibowitch says the truth :


Rabbi Emmanuel Levyne:



Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss




Off topic:

As soon as the muslims doesn't develop an union, islamic economy,ressource exploitation,industry,education we'll go nowhere.On the long run Israel is condamned because western support won't last longtime.Every empires had their time in history Greeks,Asians, French,England,Muslims,Asians and it's the same about Americano-zionists's world domination actually.If muslims doesn't unite as one and kick all the foreing base and western's puppet leader out, they'll never do anything.USA acting like a thirsty parasite with 1000 militaries base around the world. Muslims governments of countries as Pakistan,Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Turkey... are still puppets and part of Nato and friend with Israel Muslims may be numerous as never but also never been such weak, divided, selfish and disorganized.There is way too much work to do for muslims to become as few centuries back. Forget about the ISIS and any groups, these guys use Islam to divide muslims more than they're already divided.

The only real caliphate will be as right as previous prophetized events which happened.The Prophete pbuh said that “Every century (100 years), Allah (Azza wa jal), would send someone [or some people] who would revive the religion again.”It's been since the end of last caliphate 1924 that we are in this situation but in front chaotic situation in the world (capitalism, ideologies,culture, war) the card are in muslim's hand to stop injustice.

I'm really , really thankful for this post and all the time you took to write it . Thanks for combatting this ****ing injustice .

 

[Aim64C]

Yea wonder what this guys reaction be if USA got nuked Oh vengeance !

It would really depend.

First off - I am not so ignorant as to assume I know how I would react to something I have yet to experience.

While, yes, the gut instinct is to "get back" at whoever did it... the fact also remains that the U.S. has created quite a few of its own problems because the federal government is out of control. Ultimately, when you start tracking down our federal aid money - we are often funding both 'sides' of many conflicts out there. It could even be argued that many of those conflicts would have ceased long ago if we weren't propping up both sides with some variety of 'aid.'

The other cold hard reality is that I really wouldn't care if New York was gone. As far as I'm concerned, that place is like an alien planet with insane communist dictators running the show - and as far as I'm concerned, most of them are directly responsible for electing the people who created the communist oligarchy forming as we speak.

So my 'emotional wiring' is focused on considerably different problems - so a nuke isn't the best thing to use to provoke an emotional response from me. I'd just be impressed 'they' put one together.

The reality is that we live within a dangerous world. There are groups out there who will try to piss on your head just because they can. There are groups who will kill people just because it gets a news camera to turn their direction. As time goes on many of the threats we so avidly fear, now, break down to an eventuality - they will eventually happen, given enough time.

The biggest thing America needs to do - no matter what calamity befalls it - is to return to the operating fundamentals of the Constitution. I would even entertain the idea of modernizing the Constitution (re-writing it to be in the same spirit of the original - but doing away with the senator for direct vote of the state legislatures and placing in more restrictions of federal authority).

I think if we do that, and we stop meddling in the rest of the world with our military running all over creation, it will be much easier to see where and when we -should- involve ourselves on the international scene. But right now, we are flailing about in the water so much that we can't see through all of the mud we've stirred up.

And, while it's unfortunate, we will eventually pay the price of allowing our government to go out of control. Hopefully, that does not include nuclear strikes on our cities - but I think that will actually be minor compared to what will happen to us, economically, for creating a feel-good economic system as opposed to a practical economic system.

 

[Avani]

Well .... you actually made sense in nearly all cases, rest I need to brush up to understand. But that statement .... "Many of the Taoist scholars were what I would call the first Libertarians - long before the West began embracing such ideologies. They observed that the emperors who did the least to try and help their people (and the least to harm them) tended to have the most prosperous people - while those who were always trying to use their power to help their people had people who were worse off." ..... this is something really serious to think about, I believe.

Helping them made them lazy and more dependent?

I wonder... when I was young I had read a story in children's book. The hero of the book ran a sadavrat and fed poor all his life even while going though hardships himself at times. He believed it was good karma but when he dies he learns he ended up in Narak. He asked why and was shown the effect of his deed- too many people turning lazy and not working at all even when they could for they knew they would get food at his place anyway...I was told moral of the story was that donation and helping is good but one should find the ones who truly deserve it.

And then there was Sirajuddaula- Nwab of Avadh. He got that famous Lucknow Imambara built during a famine. The tale goes that at times he got laborers to break walls in night and make them raise it again the next day to continue giving them work.. He provided people work and food during a crisis but not for free.

Would it be the similar thinking thing?

 

[Ψ Veritas Ψ]

we tek twalv

 

[Aim64C]

Helping them made them lazy and more dependent?

I wonder... when I was young I had read a story in children's book. The hero of the book ran a sadavrat and fed poor all his life even while going though hardships himself at times. He believed it was good karma but when he dies he learns he ended up in Narak. He asked why and was shown the effect of his deed- too many people turning lazy and not working at all even when they could for they knew they would get food at his place anyway...I was told moral of the story was that donation and helping is good but one should find the ones who truly deserve it.

And then there was Sirajuddaula- Nwab of Avadh. He got that famous Lucknow Imambara built during a famine. The tale goes that at times he got laborers to break walls in night and make them raise it again the next day to continue giving them work.. He provided people work and food during a crisis but not for free.

Would it be the similar thinking thing?

I think this interview with Thomas Sowell really puts issues like what you mention and issues like what we are seeing between Israel and Palestine into focus:

[video=youtube;Eu_bKJ11O0M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu_bKJ11O0M[/video]

About the 9:20 mark is where things are almost directly transferable to both Israel/Gaza and the concept of benevolent emperors who wish to help their population.

In the end - the only thing that raises a group of people to affluence is the desire to build trade skills and knowledge as well as the willingness to apply those trade skills and knowledge (whether anyone will hire them or not).

Or, as Jesus once said:

"Give a man a fish, and he shall eat for an evening. Teach a man to fish, and he shall eat for a lifetime."

 

[Scooby Doo]

Or, as Jesus once said:

"Give a man a fish, and he shall eat for an evening. Teach a man to fish, and he shall eat for a lifetime."

When did Jesus say that?

 

[Anorien16]

Helping them made them lazy and more dependent?

I wonder... when I was young I had read a story in children's book. The hero of the book ran a sadavrat and fed poor all his life even while going though hardships himself at times. He believed it was good karma but when he dies he learns he ended up in Narak. He asked why and was shown the effect of his deed- too many people turning lazy and not working at all even when they could for they knew they would get food at his place anyway...I was told moral of the story was that donation and helping is good but one should find the ones who truly deserve it.

And then there was Sirajuddaula- Nwab of Avadh. He got that famous Lucknow Imambara built during a famine. The tale goes that at times he got laborers to break walls in night and make them raise it again the next day to continue giving them work.. He provided people work and food during a crisis but not for free.

Would it be the similar thinking thing?

Yeah, I have been told that too 'Apatre daan' . But actually I am not concerned with the vailidity of the statement as I have a fine example back home (I was kinda neglected durring my growing years while my sister was adored .... I turned out to be more 'efficient' in the end) ..... but I am more concerned with application of the belief (Like: Sirajuddaula).

 

[Aim64C]

When did Jesus say that?

Actually - you're right. Well - assuming you're trying to make the point that I think you are.

It's commonly misquoted as being a biblical phrase, and I stand corrected.

I have learned something new for the day, and can now go to sleep. ... Well - not really, as there are duties to attend to that I'm currently neglecting for my own selfish indulgence - but *shrug.*