Second Mizukage & Kisame vs Minato & Tobirama

[ARGUS]

i think people seem to disregard second mizukage here,
his liquifying ability can pretty much render any physical attacks useless

 

[Draegod]

Mist rape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Unorthodox]

Kisame solos already skooled kidgamer with this argument before

 

[TRE MERCER]

-Never said they blitz, so you must be reading something else. Using Goshun Mawashi doesn't require them to blitz, it only requires them to touch Kisame. Not to mention they can get in range and blitz with Hiraishin Kunai if the Dome isn't out of place. Tobirama can link to Minato's markings and teleport to them, and they can each make a clone or two. If Kisame isn't in the dome when they get in range, he gets lolblitzed. No way its not going to happen, not against two Hiraishin users.

-Great Shark Bullet gets sucked in by Space Time Barrier and warped away.

-Water Dome isn't an issue here. They can each make Shadow Clones, have them swim in the opposite direction and Kisame has to chase after one of them, which will let anyone who isn't being chased escape the Dome. Since he won't be able to tell which of the Minatos and Tobiramas is the original, using this method they both escape. Or Minato can summon a Toad, mark it, and have it swim in the opposite direction. If it gets out, they can warp to it. If they get out...well, they get out.

-Water Clones contain 10% of the original's chakra, Minato and Tobiram are both sensors, it won't be hard to tell which one is the original one.

You just repeated yourself in that entire first paragraph. Use english please wtf is Goshun Mawashi?

Kisame uses Subterranean Voyage which the earth surrounding the user turns into liquid not only will this help Kisame against ftg Kunai it will also help him against close combat or blitzing as you wan't to call it. They aren't ftg trapping Kisame because he can absorb the chakra connection. Kisame can turn the entire battlefield into a

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. Then Kisame proceeds with

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Minato and Tobirama easily gets overwhelmed. Minato is easily stalled by the 1k Sharks then GSB Comes in for the finish from his backside.

Gamabunta blade is easily dodged or tanked. Not to mention Samehada grants the user/person fused with it the ability to

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.

One more thing Kisame doesn't have to make contact to absorb there

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Also you keep talking about water clones having 10percent of his chakra so that's still far more than the average shinobi did you forget that he has chakra comparable to a tailed beast?. So i shall repeat myself they have no real accurate way of winning.

 

[kyubbi sagemode]

What's this talk about kisame soloing? Please he's fodder

 

[KidGamer65]

You just repeated yourself in that entire first paragraph. Use english please wtf is Goshun Mawashi?

Use Google and stop bitching, lmao if you want to cry about irrelevant shit go cry elsewhere.

Kisame uses Subterranean Voyage which the earth surrounding the user turns into liquid not only will this help Kisame against ftg Kunai it will also help him against close combat or blitzing as you wan't to call it.

Not really. Cause once he comes out, he gets attacked by both of them, and gets his ass blitzed like Obito did. Then they mark him.

They aren't ftg trapping Kisame because he can absorb the chakra connection. Kisame can turn the entire battlefield into a

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. Then Kisame proceeds with

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Minato and Tobirama easily gets overwhelmed. Minato is easily stalled by the 1k Sharks then GSB Comes in for the finish from his backside.

Wrong. There is no "chakra connection" when it comes to Hiraishin marks. So there is nothing to absorb, and for the hundredth time, S/T Barrier takes car of 1000 Feeding Sharks. So there is no "Stalled by the sharks and then GSB comes in his the backside" His barrier takes care of the sharks and then he either teleports to Tobirama or Bunta, who aren't being targeted by GSB or he warps it away too using S/T Barrier.

Gamabunta blade is easily dodged or tanked. Not to mention Samehada grants the user/person fused with it the ability to

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.

If they use Goshun Mawashi to swap places, there is no dodging, he dies. He isn't going to react to being instantaneously teleported into a blade. If Juubito couldn't do it, talk of Kisame doing it is BS. And Kisame hasn't shown any super durability that would lead me to believe he'll tank a blade the size of his body bisecting him. And Samehada hasn't shown regeneration on the level of recreating limbs, so once he gets bisected he gets killed.

One more thing Kisame doesn't have to make contact to absorb there

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Also you keep talking about water clones having 10percent of his chakra so that's still far more than the average shinobi did you forget that he has chakra comparable to a tailed beast?. So i shall repeat myself they have no real accurate way of winning.

Ok?

Lol. Far more than the average Shinobi doesn't mean anything here. 10% means most of his jutsu aren't usable. The fact they turn into liquid from one simple hit, is enough to say that they are fodder clones.

 

[Haizaki]

The mist wins cuz of that genjutsu. Kisame can't solo since water dome is out of the question. Not a chance.

a 30% clone beat Team Gai(Lee, Neji, Tenten) neg difficulty and forced Gai to use high gates

Still doesn't change the outcome. What was Kisame lacking in that fight? Chakra doesn't increase reflexes. Gai already beat the real one.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Use Google and stop bitching, lmao if you want to cry about irrelevant shit go cry elsewhere.



Not really. Cause once he comes out, he gets attacked by both of them, and gets his ass blitzed like Obito did. Then they mark him.



Wrong. There is no "chakra connection" when it comes to Hiraishin marks. So there is nothing to absorb, and for the hundredth time, S/T Barrier takes car of 1000 Feeding Sharks. So there is no "Stalled by the sharks and then GSB comes in his the backside" His barrier takes care of the sharks and then he either teleports to Tobirama or Bunta, who aren't being targeted by GSB or he warps it away too using S/T Barrier.



If they use Goshun Mawashi to swap places, there is no dodging, he dies. He isn't going to react to being instantaneously teleported into a blade. If Juubito couldn't do it, talk of Kisame doing it is BS. And Kisame hasn't shown any super durability that would lead me to believe he'll tank a blade the size of his body bisecting him. And Samehada hasn't shown regeneration on the level of recreating limbs, so once he gets bisected he gets killed.



Ok?

Lol. Far more than the average Shinobi doesn't mean anything here. 10% means most of his jutsu aren't usable. The fact they turn into liquid from one simple hit, is enough to say that they are fodder clones.

L0l was this supposed to be a counter or a rant i honestly can't tell. Also no im not going to google just to find out why someone who speaks and read in English is typing some japanese shit.

What will they do when they blitz him Rasengan Kunai what? Lmao there offence is poor. Actually it is after Minato and Naruto meet God tree roots Minato says

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Don't give me that bullshit saying he was out of chakra shit becaus he clearly still had his KM Cloak on so please tell me why didn't he teleport to Naruto? L0l S/T barrier protects a 360 now? Smh please put more detail into what your saying.

So the bigger the blade the more powerful lmao Samehada has tanked explosion Giant axes etc. Ftg is useless because of chakra absorb-tion. So if they wan't to try and cut him with Gamabunta knife they'll need to do it with ftg. Also that scan of Shakaku getting his arms or tails cut off is irrelevant because bee is getting his tail cut off by shurikens. Do you not know the meaning of Regeneration?

Definition of REGENERATION

1
: an act or the process of regenerating : the state of being regenerated
2
: spiritual renewal or revival
3
: renewal or restoration of a body, bodily part, or biological system (as a forest) after injury or as a normal process
4
: utilization by special devices of heat or other products that would ordinarily be lost

 

[ARGUS]

@original debater, - thhere is nothing wrong with people using japanese terms or abbreviations here, seeing how the japanese terms are still used in most manga translations and most of them are aware of the abbreviations used as well,
just counter the arguments without adding useless tension

 

[KidGamer65]

L0l was this supposed to be a counter or a rant i honestly can't tell. Also no im not going to google just to find out why someone who speaks and read in English is typing some japanese shit.

Unless you are going to come over here and type the long english name that I don't have memorized for me, stop bitching like a little ass kid and use Google, or don't reply. Not to mention I already posted a scan of what it was, so at this point you are bitching just to bitch.

What will they do when they blitz him Rasengan Kunai what? Lmao there offence is poor. Actually it is after Minato and Naruto meet God tree roots Minato says

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Don't give me that bullshit saying he was out of chakra shit becaus he clearly still had his KM Cloak on so please tell me why didn't he teleport to Naruto? L0l S/T barrier protects a 360 now? Smh please put more detail into what your saying.

They toss Kunai at him, and blitz him just like Minato did to Obito, Minato hits him with Rasengan, like he did to Obito, and he marks him, like he did to Obito. How hard can that possibly be to understand?

It doesn't need to be 360 degrees. He blocks one and then blocks the other since Kisame can't use both at the same time.

They sucked up his chakra, meaning he had no chakra left. Just like the manga said. "The branches sucked up all MY Chakra" Can't read anymore or what? lmfao. They never said any anything about any kind of chakra connection If you can't deal with that its not my problem. SA was running out of chakra despite being cloaked in Naruto's chakra.

So the bigger the blade the more powerful lmao Samehada has tanked explosion Giant axes etc. Ftg is useless because of chakra absorb-tion. So if they wan't to try and cut him with Gamabunta knife they'll need to do it with ftg. Also that scan of Shakaku getting his arms or tails cut off is irrelevant because bee is getting his tail cut off by shurikens. Do you not know the meaning of Regeneration?

No, the simple fact he's shown no super durability feats means he isn't tanking Gamabunta's sword. When you can get me the legit feats, then we can talk, until then stop with the baseless remarks.

-Samehada has never tanked anything, it has only absorbed jutsu or parried another weapon. I suggest you get some durability feats for Kisamehada that let me believe he tanks.

-Bold is false. Chakra absoprtion isn't going to do shit unless he can absorb all their chakra before they use it, and of course, he can't so there is no debate on that fact. It absorbing marks is pure fanfiction.

-Lol? Not only is Kisame not durable at all. Killer B's tentacles getting cut off by Shurikens doesn't mean shit here because for one, I'm talking about Shukaku, completely different Bijuu. Second of all, B's body is more durable than his tentacles.


I know what regeneration is, but you clearly don't know what feats are. Hashirama's Sage Mode comes with regeneration, but Madara needed to replace his arm instead of regenerating it. When you can get me the feats or statements that say he can regenerate limbs and not just heal injuries, then we can talk.

 

[LuckyMan]

Kisame's hands and feet are webbed in Kisamehda form so he can't even weave hand seals to use other jutsu while in that transformation. Just wanted to point that out to people thinking he shoots shark bombs, and summons tsunamis of them when he cant even form seals.

 

[TRE MERCER]

@original debater, - thhere is nothing wrong with people using japanese terms or abbreviations here, seeing how the japanese terms are still used in most manga translations and most of them are aware of the abbreviations used as well,
just counter the arguments without adding useless tension

By asking someone what Goshun Mawashi is is useless tension gtfoh.

Unless you are going to come over here and type the long english name that I don't have memorized for me, stop bitching like a little ass kid and use Google, or don't reply. Not to mention I already posted a scan of what it was, so at this point you are bitching just to bitch.

L0l now your *****ing but enough with that lets just focus on the debate at hand.

They toss Kunai at him, and blitz him just like Minato did to Obito, Minato hits him with Rasengan, like he did to Obito, and he marks him, like he did to Obito. How hard can that possibly be to understand?

Didn't i already explain why tossing Kunai is useless Kisame can turn the earth around him into a liquid form the Kunai will just sink. Also at 65 meters Kisame can use Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave which turns the entire battlefield into a small ocean/lake. Once this happens Minato and Tobirama will be at an extreme disadvantage because Kisame can attack under water rendering ftg complete useless.

It doesn't need to be 360 degrees. He blocks one and then blocks the other since Kisame can't use both at the same time.

They sucked up his chakra, meaning he had no chakra left. Just like the manga said. "The branches sucked up all MY Chakra" Can't read anymore or what? lmfao. They never said any anything about any kind of chakra connection If you can't deal with that its not my problem. SA was running out of chakra despite being cloaked in Naruto's chakra.

What stops Kisame from using both at the same time he has clones. Also 1k feeding sharks aren't being stop-ed by s/t barrier since it has a small epicentre which is easily in the middle of the jutsu. Unless you think it can expand it's epicentre even wide enough. Also Kisame can guide his sharks why would they just go straight foward?

Minato is a damn edo edo's cannot run out of chakra stated

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. Also the branches only got him because he was to close. Using the chakra shround means nothing when it's not self made as the KM cloak is. If the branches really can suck chakra why was Minato the only Edo targeted? They didn't bother with Hiruzen or Tobirama.

No, the simple fact he's shown no super durability feats means he isn't tanking Gamabunta's sword. When you can get me the legit feats, then we can talk, until then stop with the baseless remarks.

-Samehada has never tanked anything, it has only absorbed jutsu or parried another weapon. I suggest you get some durability feats for Kisamehada that let me believe he tanks.

-Bold is false. Chakra absoprtion isn't going to do shit unless he can absorb all their chakra before they use it, and of course, he can't so there is no debate on that fact. It absorbing marks is pure fanfiction.

-Lol? Not only is Kisame not durable at all. Killer B's tentacles getting cut off by Shurikens doesn't mean shit here because for one, I'm talking about Shukaku, completely different Bijuu. Second of all, B's body is more durable than his tentacles.

What's so impressive about Gamabunta sword? The size size means nothing it come to piercing force which Samehada excels at blocking naturally since it has the body of normal blades. A fake weaker Samehada tanked

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Without any damage. Also it tanked Bee's blade which is actually pointy at the

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Unlike Gamabunta blade.

Also it tanked this Giant

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. I mention Killer bee because you using a Bijuu like Shukaku as a cutting feat from Gamabunta sword is useless Because Bijuu limbs tails can be cut off with puny attacks. Bee's body is more durable than his tails i need scan backing this up.

I know what regeneration is, but you clearly don't know what feats are. Hashirama's Sage Mode comes with regeneration, but Madara needed to replace his arm instead of regenerating it. When you can get me the feats or statements that say he can regenerate limbs and not just heal injuries, then we can talk.

Madara clearly states

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not regeneration. Hell even the damn wiki states it's a healing ability not

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.

 

[KidGamer65]

By asking someone what Goshun Mawashi is is useless tension gtfoh.


L0l now your *****ing but enough with that lets just focus on the debate at hand.


Didn't i already explain why tossing Kunai is useless Kisame can turn the earth around him into a liquid form the Kunai will just sink. Also at 65 meters Kisame can use Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave which turns the entire battlefield into a small ocean/lake. Once this happens Minato and Tobirama will be at an extreme disadvantage because Kisame can attack under water rendering ftg complete useless.

Uh, no. If they throw the Kunai at him, just how Minato did to Obito, the ground around them is completely irrelevant as he'll be teleporting to the moving mid air Kunai. Subterranean Voyage only turns the earth around him while he's moving through it, and it being liquid doesn't mean that the Kunai will sink so far down that they can't teleport.

How does the bold render it useless? He'll have to come up eventually, allowing them to attack then via the same methods. They can both sense his chakra so evading his underwater attacks won't be an issue here. They can make clones, and they can teleport to their clones, so Kisame attacking a clone would lead to either of them blitzing him with Hiraishin right then and there.


What stops Kisame from using both at the same time he has clones. Also 1k feeding sharks aren't being stop-ed by s/t barrier since it has a small epicentre which is easily in the middle of the jutsu. Unless you think it can expand it's epicentre even wide enough. [/QUOTE]

He has fodder clones with 10% of his chakra. No reason to believe one his best moves can be used with only 10% of his overall chakra.

@bold: He used the same barrier to warp the Juubi Dama away. A wall of sharks isn't going to be an issue here.

Also Kisame can guide his sharks why would they just go straight foward?

That's what the 1000 Feeding Sharks were shown to do in the manga. Not interested in anything else. He uses it and S/T Barrier sucks them all in.

Minato is a damn edo edo's cannot run out of chakra stated

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. Also the branches only got him because he was to close. Using the chakra shround means nothing when it's not self made as the KM cloak is. If the branches really can suck chakra why was Minato the only Edo targeted? They didn't bother with Hiruzen or Tobirama.

"The branches sucked out all of my chakra" Edos can apparently run out of chakra for a certain period of time, as the manga clearly states. I'm not going to debate Minato's words based on your beliefs.

@bold: I hope you aren't trying to dispute the branches being able to absorb chakra. They already absorbed Naruto and Minato's chakra in canon. Not interested in any other opinion you have on the matter as the manga ha spoken.

What's so impressive about Gamabunta sword? The size size means nothing it come to piercing force which Samehada excels at blocking naturally since it has the body of normal blades. A fake weaker Samehada tanked

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Without any damage. Also it tanked Bee's blade which is actually pointy at the

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Unlike Gamabunta blade.

Samehada doesn't excel at piercing force. Its not even a bladed sword, it excelling at cutting or piercing is ridiculous.

-That Samehada was weaker based on what? Oh wait, nothing. Not to mention its irrelevant. Kisame's body when fused with Samehada isn't the same as the swords, nor is that stronger than Gamabunta's strikes, not when he easily cut off Shukaku's (Albeit not at full power) arm. A metal spike ball with an explosive tag on it isn't anything great.

-Lol? So? A blade not being able to pierce a sword isn't anything to go crazy about, nor is it reason to believe Gamabunta's blade won't pierce Kisame's body. It being pointy at the end doesn't make it stronger, don't know what kind of logic that is, but its flawed. Bigger sword=Bigger edge. Bunta is physically stronger than B as well, and Samehada's body isn't the same as Kisame's even when they are fused, so Bunta's sword runs him through.

Also it tanked this Giant

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. I mention Killer bee because you using a Bijuu like Shukaku as a cutting feat from Gamabunta sword is useless Because Bijuu limbs tails can be cut off with puny attacks. Bee's body is more durable than his tails i need scan backing this up.

Lol, you need to learn the difference between "tank" and "parry". Samehada is a sword, it will parry other weapons as it is a weapon in itself. The fusion grants Kisame Samehada's abilities, but it doesn't mean that his body structure changes so that he can parry whatever attacks his sword can parry. Go get some legit durability feats for Kisame then you can talk about him tanking anything let alone Bunta's sword.

And based on what evidence is that axe swung by that fodder any stronger than Bunta's Toad Sword Beheading? "Giant" was your only remote form of evidence, and if that is what we're basing it on, Bunta's sword is bigger.

Madara clearly states

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not regeneration. Hell even the damn wiki states it's a healing ability not

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.

And guess what? Samehada has never been stated to give the user regeneration.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Uh, no. If they throw the Kunai at him, just how Minato did to Obito, the ground around them is completely irrelevant as he'll be teleporting to the moving mid air Kunai. Subterranean Voyage only turns the earth around him while he's moving through it, and it being liquid doesn't mean that the Kunai will sink so far down that they can't teleport.

How does the bold render it useless? He'll have to come up eventually, allowing them to attack then via the same methods. They can both sense his chakra so evading his underwater attacks won't be an issue here. They can make clones, and they can teleport to their clones, so Kisame attacking a clone would lead to either of them blitzing him with Hiraishin right then and there.


What stops Kisame from using both at the same time he has clones. Also 1k feeding sharks aren't being stop-ed by s/t barrier since it has a small epicentre which is easily in the middle of the jutsu. Unless you think it can expand it's epicentre even wide enough.

He has fodder clones with 10% of his chakra. No reason to believe one his best moves can be used with only 10% of his overall chakra.

@bold: He used the same barrier to warp the Juubi Dama away. A wall of sharks isn't going to be an issue here.




That's what the 1000 Feeding Sharks were shown to do in the manga. Not interested in anything else. He uses it and S/T Barrier sucks them all in.



Samehada doesn't excel at piercing force. Its not even a bladed sword, it excelling at cutting or piercing is ridiculous.

-That Samehada was weaker based on what? Oh wait, nothing. Not to mention its irrelevant. Kisame's body when fused with Samehada isn't the same as the swords, nor is that stronger than Gamabunta's strikes, not when he easily cut off Shukaku's (Albeit not at full power) arm. A metal spike ball with an explosive tag on it isn't anything great.

-Lol? So? A blade not being able to pierce a sword isn't anything to go crazy about, nor is it reason to believe Gamabunta's blade won't pierce Kisame's body. It being pointy at the end doesn't make it stronger, don't know what kind of logic that is, but its flawed. Bigger sword=Bigger edge. Bunta is physically stronger than B as well, and Samehada's body isn't the same as Kisame's even when they are fused, so Bunta's sword runs him through.


Lol, you need to learn the difference between "tank" and "parry". Samehada is a sword, it will parry other weapons as it is a weapon in itself. The fusion grants Kisame Samehada's abilities, but it doesn't mean that his body structure changes so that he can parry whatever attacks his sword can parry. Go get some legit durability feats for Kisame then you can talk about him tanking anything let alone Bunta's sword.

And based on what evidence is that axe swung by that fodder any stronger than Bunta's Toad Sword Beheading? "Giant" was your only remote form of evidence, and if that is what we're basing it on, Bunta's sword is bigger.




And guess what? Samehada has never been stated to give the user regeneration.

Flaws up the as. When was it stated that he used space time barrier on the Juubidama? Fodder 36709 clearly said it just vanished when s/t barrier is used you can see it suck something especially something the size of a Juubidama. Never said Samehada excels at piercing force i said excels at blocking piercing force. I could just shit on your pathetic excuse for an counter-argument you cleary just threw that together without any thinking clearly.

Let's just agree to disagree or we can take this into a real debate and have judges make a clear winner?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

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[super yang]

gosh, minato is such a walking plot device & Tobirama is an un-original & stale bit chara born of writers block.

but at least they look cool~

 

[KidGamer65]

Flaws up the as. When was it stated that he used space time barrier on the Juubidama? Fodder 36709 clearly said it just vanished when s/t barrier is used you can see it suck something especially something the size of a Juubidama. Never said Samehada excels at piercing force i said excels at blocking piercing force. I could just shit on your pathetic excuse for an counter-argument you cleary just threw that together without any thinking clearly.

Let's just agree to disagree or we can take this into a real debate and have judges make a clear winner?

Then what did he use? He has no way to remotely teleport things without the use of a barrier. Kishimoto not showing the actual sucking in of the barrier is his fault. Either way, its an intangible barrier created by Minato. There is no reason he can extend it.

Pathetic excuse? Once again, we have people who talk shit but can never back it up. You are giving Kisame's body, feats of a sword parrying and blocking another object. That's completely idiotic. What's pathetic is your argument.

-Kisame isn't going to get cut by Bunta's sword because a fodder swung an axe at him and he blocked with Samehada.

-Kisame isn't going to get cut by Bunta's sword because he blocked an exploding ball with Samehada.

-Fodder clones are going to use some of Kisame's strongest jutsu.

Its clear you don't know the meaning of "legit" durability feats, but then again if he had any you wouldn't be making this idiotic remarks.

I'm not about to waste my time debating this with you on a separate thread, having to reply to the same nonsense arguments, if you have nothing else to say on the topic, then don't reply.