MS Obito or Itachi?
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obito uchiha the wraith
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itachi with all his intelligence never knew obito wasn't madara. and itachi with all his intelligence said he would need ems to have a chance at beating obito who only had one ms eye.
Yellow Flash of Konoha
Member
Itachi solos, in the movie road to ninja, Itachi said to Obito that physical attacks won't work on him but I am not completely out of options, and then Obito ran away. So that means, he will defeat Obito!!
WalksInShadows
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that's actually pretty false since he was seen sweating plenty of ppl in certain situations.
he stole chakra from Madara then proceeded to run.
it doesn't work like that dude. Susano'o takes on the properties of a solid object, and when fully formed, cannot be penetrated by anything like Kamui. It takes a jutsu like White Rage that messes with the user's concentration, and Obito has no such technique. Just pointing it out.
that can be argued since Edo Itachi is seen having the striking power to knock Naruto back, even in BC Mode.
doesn't necessarily mean Itachi has to stand absolutely still while prepping it. He can engage someone in a fight while prepping Izanami because he has to set the moment in time in which he wants to loop. And the worse part is, the victim won't realize what that moment is until it starts.
i already stated the reasons, but that is an impossibility.
if Obito is going to win, he will have to go on an offensive. And to go on an offensive, he will have to be solid. There's no way around that.
because Itachi was trying to find out his end game. That was the whole point of him infiltrating Akatsuki. He wasn't going to find out by killing him, was he?
Everlasting Hebi King
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Against naruto, he never feared him, it was the excitement of battle.. Now name those plp he fears?
you do know kamui doesnt penetrate an object right? it allows the person to exist in another dimension. If he used kamu he could phase through it since his body wouldnt be touching it at all so your wrong on that part
WalksInShadows
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i'll do you one better and show you:
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And about how he never feared Naruto?
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You can quit trying to pretend Obito was never scared of anyone now. His whole life has been a story of talking big then growing a yellow streak up his back when the going got tough.
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Too bad Itachi gave Naruto KA which makes it in Naruto's arsenal since Itachi destroyed the crow after Naruto used it. Nagato is more of a solo god than Itachi since he has be soloing since he was a kid and even before he was trained to be a ninja. No one could solo Nagato from what we seen (not including Juubi jin+); he was solo god before Itachi and died after Itachi as well so Itachi never had the chance to become solo god since he died before Nagato. It took Itachi, Naruto and Bee to beat a controlled low mobility Edo Nagato.
Itachi gave KA to Naruto though so that would more be in Naruto's Arsenal just like how we count Itachi having it when Shisui gave Itachi it, Itachi gave Naruto it.
Thing is only Minato ever deduced Kamui in seeing it once and further broke it down upon seeing it a second time. Kakashi and Sasuke couldn't deduce how Obito was going intangible even though they both have Sharingans and are smart ninjas in their own right. Itachi would have to be attacking Obito to deduce how Kamui works and to find possible weaknesses but Itachi have low stamina and have an illness which he needs to take medicine just to prolong his life and he can't push his body too far without killing himself.
Itachi was trained by Obito, he called him teacher to Sasuke. Obito's teacher was Madara and we do know Obito kept things from Itachi as Madara kept things from Obito but Obito have more knowledge on Itachi thanks to Zetsu recording all fights Akatsuki related and informing Nagato and Obito. Obito said himself he knew things even Itachi didn't know he knew. What's stopping Obito from Kamui-ing to Itachi and impaling Itachi with his wood jutsu that he killed Mist anbus with? Ama doesn't work, Obito has strong Sharingan to break Tsukuyomi, Susanoo does nothing to Kamui.
Tobi wasn't Obito at that time so 95% of what Obito could do wasn't going to be showcase there and that's not canon. Canon Itachi referred Obito as Madara and called him a shell of his former self yet still stated that he needs the EMS to beat him. Obito and Madara both controlled Kurama with their 3 tomoes Sharingan while Sasuke and Itachi said they need the MS for such a feat so Obito also have better mastery with his Sharingan than Itachi.
Susanoo can't affect Kamui which moves Obito's body to another dimension so it allows Obito to just walk through Susanoo to where Itachi is. Saying Edo Itachi match KM Naruto isn't much when Naruto was in intense training where he stated to have used a ton of chakra and even shown to be injured in, splits his power to 1/13 when he made 12 clones before meeting up with Itachi and Nagato with Bee so it should be more that KM Naruto so powered down is able to fight Edo Itachi.
Itachi called Madara, who is Obito, his teacher and Obito said he knew things about Itachi that even Itachi didn't know he knew. Obito also learned Uchiha forbidden jutsus from Madara so he will know what Izanami is since he knows what Izanagi is. Itachi doesn't know about Kamui, Hashirama DNA, Obito's true identity. Itachi already stated that Izanami isn't a jutsu that could be used in real combat and as we saw, he took fatal blows from Kabuto while setting it up, he can't do that on Obito because 1 fatal attack and he's dead plus when you add in his illness.
Obito can use his Kamui to kill a number of strong ninjas and make it look easy since they had no knowledge about Kamui or how it works which Itachi wouldn't know about either (Sasuke and Kakashi both couldn't figure it out alone). Obito can literally run at you, Kamui thru any attack you throw at him and impale you
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WalksInShadows
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1.Itachi called him his mentor, meaning he was told things about the Sharingan and various other things. He was never trained by Obito the way you say since Orochimaru was seen spying on a much younger Itachi training privately.
2. There's no way of knowing how much of Itachi's arsenal Obito even knows about since BZ either didn't record everything or didn't tell Obito everything. The latter is more likely seeing though he was never that closely aligned with Obito to begin with.
3. You're exaggerating the strength of Obito's Mokuton because the Mokuton he killed those Kiri guys with was amplified by GuruGuru. This is the
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, and it's not even that strong. In all likelihood, Itachi won't need anything more than his partial Susano'o to snap it like a twig.Itachi made that statement under the belief that the masked guy was Madara. Just because he said it in that context in now way indicates Itachi needs an EMS to beat Obito.
and Obito was only seen being able to do it that 1 time.
canon dictates that nothing is able to penetrate a Susano'o like that unless they possess a technique like White Rage. Obito hasn't been seen possessing such a technique so i'm not inclined to ever subscribe to this "Susano'o Walker" logic.
1. Obito said he knew the truth about him, not what you're claiming here. He in now way implied he knew much beyond what canon confirms.
2. Itachi attacked Kabuto the way he did because the latter was fighting from a vantage point on the cavern ceilings. Obito doesn't fight in any such way, nor does he possess a technique like Kabuto's Chakra Scalpel to deliver that kind of shot.
3. Itachi didn't die from using his best stuff in 1 fight. He died from prolonged use of those jutsu throughout his appearance in the story prior to his death.
while that's true, it's his predictability with it that got him beaten or almost beaten. And this list has a good number of ppl on it. If freaking Gai was able to figure it out, then it's not really that complex a jutsu. Hell, Yamato, Fu, and Torune haven't been around the dude for 5 solid minutes and they grasped the basic gist of how it worked and you're implying figuring it out will be that much of a problem for someone as smart as Itachi? I'm not saying Itachi will win, but you and some of these other ppl who are actually convinced it's going to be a cakewalk for Obito just because he has Kamui is grossly underestimating Itachi. If Kamui was that much of an advantage, then he wouldn't have found himself needing to use a forbidden jutsu just to get the upper hand on someone like' Konan.
there's one little problem: Itachi can substitute himself with a clone in the moment he's being attacked, and in the same moment, go on the attack:
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If you guys weren't so quick to give the win to Obito just because of his Kamui, you might've known that. That situation you shown is exactly what got him Rasengan'd into the ground by Minato: he's 100% predictable using that tactic and it's a strategy that has been used against him repeatedly.
Tantalus Thief
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1. Mentor: (N) A wise and trusted guide and advisor. (V) Serve as a teacher or trusted counselor. Even just telling Itachi about the Sharingan and other things would make Obito his teacher, teachers teach their students things in both physical activities and/or verbally informing them. He also helped Itachi kill the Uchiha clan which also would give him an idea of Itachi's skill (Sasuke even said he thought even someone like Itachi couldn't do it alone).
2. It wasn't only BZ, it was WZ combined with him and he did tell Obito everything when it came to events taking place in the manga, he only kept the things involving Kaguya and past events secret but he did tell Obito of the things that were currently happening so Obito could take the needed steps to carry out the plan which BZ wanted carried out. Zetsu recorded all fights, that's his job even if we don't see him there. He's the one who tells them when a member dies or accomplish their task. He was there for the Bee vs Kisame fight, Sasuke vs Itachi fight, Naruto vs Pein fight (you see him at the end when Naruto returns to the village), and he informs the others when a person dies which means he had to have been at the other fights.
3. Obito have Zetsu parts to use it, Spiral zetsu helped him at that time when he was young and weak compared to how he currently is; he shown to connect to the Juubi as Madara have, and control the Juubi using the wood jutsu. In that scan you provided, Obito wasn't going for a killing blow on Naruto since he wanted Yang Kurama's chakra. The Gedo Mezo was in it's barrier but Madara made a comment about wanting to capture the 8 and 9 tails before the Juubi revived but they were tougher than he thought and that was while the GM was in the barrier so they could have still called the barrier down to give the chakra to the statue if they got the chakra. Only person Obito was really aiming potential killing attacks at was Kakashi when he was slashing him but even then you could see him holding back in that fight since he warps him instead of just killing him.
Gai wasn't alone was he? In fact he didn't figure it out, Kakashi did when he Kamui his Kunai and noticed the scratch mark on Obito's mask. Kakashi told his suspicious to the team and asked them to help him test his theory out which they did so it was never a solo feat but a team effort. Yamato never figured it out since he wasn't there when they did and they knew nothing in the first them they fought Obito which included Yamato/Hinata/Shino/Kiba. Fu and Torune had some info from when team Kakashi and team Yamato faced Tobi which is why they knew about Tobi being able to go through things
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. That's all they knew tho, they learned more about his Kamui when they were fighting together as a united team
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. Itachi would be alone which means he would need to attack and be attacked to figure this out since he wouldn't know anything for sure until he test it.Thing is, Konan had FULL knowledge of Obito's Kamui and made a strategy strictly to counter that one jutsu and had 10,000 exploding tags prepared for that one occasion
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. Obito has the Sharingan and have it mastered beyond Itachi with his, controlling Kurama with only his 3 tomoes like his teacher Madara is enough to gauge the power of their genjutsus when Itachi agreed with Sasuke in needing the MS. It doesn't matter if Obito did that feat once, Itachi only used Izanami once so he can't do it again? Itachi turning to crows is somewhat widely known as much as he has down it; Obito can easily be told about by Zetsu who records Akatsuki's battles. Itachi needed to use medicine to stay alive, his body can't handle him going all out which he did against Sasuke and he died. Now I mean going all out as pushing his body, his body can't handle the painful side effects of receiving damages in battle and the damage his MS jutsus cause him. Susanoo being the most painful for Itachi since it is then that Itachi started to clutch his chest and cough up blood. Sasuke said using Susanoo ached every cell in his body and wondered how bad it was for Itachi so Susanoo will be killing Itachi much faster than Itachi can try to beat Obito.
Differences is Minato knew how Kamui worked, it broke it down by seeing it used the first time then broke it down even more seeing it used a second time and he's the only person to ever break it down that fast with no intel before hand and single handed. Minato had to use FTG lvl 2 to FTG instantly above Obito to Rasengan him, no one else would be able to do a similar feat except Tobirama, current Sasuke, KM Naruto+, A, Gai 8th gates who all have S/T jutsus or shown immense foot speed which is greater than Itachi's. (also if you try to say Edo Itachi kept up to KM Naruto, that was a KM Naruto who entered the war from an intense training with no break then split his power 1/13th when he made 12 clones before meeting Itachi and Nagato).
I give Obito the win for the sheer fact that Itachi had his illness, Obito is the more skilled with the Sharingan, all 3 of Itachi's jutsus gets beat by Obito, Obito being stronger, not requiring food with Zetsu parts fused to him, have higher chakra reserves. Ever wondered why Itachi relied on genjutsus? Besides him being a pacifist and rather not kill, he can't push his body too far or he'll die. He didn't receive that bad of an injury from Sasuke, it was Itachi's own jutsus side effects that killed him.
As for Susanoo, Obito can walk through Susanoo because Susanoo isn't in Obito's dimension to physically stop Obito from wakling thru. Obito can go underground, the ground isn't made for people to go thru yet he does. Susanoo isn't made to stop S/T jutsus and never stated to have such an ability, it's just like a chakra based piece of armor that's solid. How is Susanoo going to stop Obito when he's not physically there? Also a Sensor, Fu, couldn't sense Obito when he went underground so how do you expect a non Sensor to do a feat a sensory type can not if Obito went underground.
Lana Del Taka
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HiddenSound
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That just blew my ****ing mind
He can just teleport from any of his 15-20 crow clones and amaterasu him the very next moment.
The only reason Kabuto could react to him is because of his prefect DSM, otherwise Obito is does not have such sensing capabilities.
Its gonna be like Minato vs Obito only instead of Rasengan, he is going to be blitzed with Amaterasu hahah
Well, there are many other scenarios for Itachi since all Obito has is Katon and Kamui =D
But all fapboys know is kamui > NV.
Oh well...what can you do...its a waste of time
WalksInShadows
Active member
the biggest indicator that BZ didn't in fact, tell Obito everything that happened since the story's start:
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Even more proof is that after Madara becomes a living person again, BZ goes on to talk about a plan Madara had formulated to force Obito into using RT for his benefit. Much like what he did with Madara, BZ only told Obito what he wanted him to know. The only thing we know Obito knows about Itachi is what he is seen knowing about.
that's still the actual strength of his Mokuton. GuruGuru is seen in the flashback doing for Obito what it did with Yamato: enhancing their existing abilities with Mokuton. The fact that Obito had Zetsu material on him is proof that his Mokuton wasn't strong because it's genetic quality is watered down compared to the quality Madara and Yamato had.
You're wrong on 2 counts:
1. Yamato did figure it out
and
2. That wasn't when he figured it out
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where does it say that? Because i don't recall anyone ever telling them that. Fu never mentions who it was the info came from. Furthermore, you're not getting where i'm coming from. By "figuring it out", i'm talking about a means of either countering Kamui/taking away it's advantages after knowing what it does. Not singlehandedly deducing the ins and outs of the jutsu beforehand.
Zetsu isn't involved in the scenario. This is strictly a MS Obito or Itachi subject, not a what can Obito do to Itachi after Zetsu tells him stuff subject.
i know all of that, which is why i already said beforehand that i was never saying Itachi will beat hands down. I'm simply pointing out stuff for ppl to realize it isn't as easy a fight for Obito to win as some ppl here want to think. His fights never really lasted long either, and the most difficult fight one ever had against Obito was when he was using the Edo Jin.
Konan didn't need a s/t jutsu to figure it out and Fu & Torune almost got him w/o one as well, so this doesn't convince me that it's that impossible for Itachi to provide a counter.
i'm not an Itachi fan, but even i will say this wrong on numerous lvls
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he was stronger against Konan too. That's not much of a plus.
that's not much of a plus either, because there have been too many situations where he went into a fight being more powerful and still either almost got beat/actually got beat.
we don't know that because it could just as well be because he looked up to Shisui, who just so happened to be a genjutsu user. If he was healthy, chances are good he still would have been a genjutsu user because it's his preferred method of atk. He was seen being about as much of a genjutsu user when he was ET'd.
again, i'm never going to buy the "Susano'o Walker" theory when nothing at leasts suggests it. Until such a thing happens, i'm sticking with canon material that says White Rage is the only tech that allows someone to do that.