MS Kakashi in top 10? (Or at least top 15)

[Migster257]

The problem is, he still is.

Current Kakashi? Yeah, I agree.

MS Kakashi? Hell no.

 

[Gagster]

Most people's top tens probably look something like this:

My thinking would be, in a 1v1 fight, they'd probably be in flat land, in about mid-short range from each other.
Keep in mind they all start in base.
-Kakashi Kamui snipes base Naruto's head
-Kakashi Kamui snipes Minato, Tobirama, Hashirama, and Hiruzen
into Kamui land where they never leave
-Kakashi Kamui snipes Itachi's head (Prepared for Itachibase attack)
-Kakashi Kamui snipes Kabuto's head

Let me explain:
As for Naruto, well, his base speed isn't fast enough to dodge a Kamui, as I'm sure everyone should know.
The hokages in edo form will pretty much never die, but they'll be stuck in Kamui land so I'd consider that a win.
Itachi's is debatable (Yes Itachi fans, there's still a chance). His Susanoo can activate before a lightning hits him, which is faster than a Kamui. The main thing is, can Kamui go through a Susanoo? If not, well, he probably loses.
Kabuto doesn't even deserve an explanation.

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[LustyLover]

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And people complain about Totsuka GG, smh

 

[Demonic.]

The problem is, he still is.

This dude has a point.... Kakashi lost his Holy Eye (see what I did there) .. He didn't die with it he's still alive and he doesn't have it anymore so he drops down in the stats. That's what happens when you use borrowed power and then the owner takes it back one day sadly.

 

[LustyLover]

This dude has a point.... Kakashi lost his Holy Eye (see what I did there) .. He didn't die with it he's still alive and he doesn't have it anymore so he drops down in the stats. That's what happens when you use borrowed power and then the owner takes it back one day sadly.

Lmao, yeah. I'm glad he lost it though. It's Obito's rightful eye.

 

[Kamui Sama]

"kamui GG" is a valid argument if Kakashi has intel on the opponents and if he knows of their power/capabilities. Kakashi has shown that he would not hesitate to use it right off the bat when he encountered "Madara" again at the team 7 meetup

 

[Migster257]

No, Kakashi isn't in the top 10 per se. If we speak in "general levels" (i.e. putting people who are of similar power on the same level) then it is possible. For example:

Strongest

1. Kaguya / Juubi Madara
2. Naruto / Sasuke (current iterations)
3. 8th Gate Gai / Juubi Obito

Runner-ups

1. Ashura / Indra (?)
2. SM Hashirama / EMS Madara (Kyuubi)
3. Orochimaru / Kabuto (with Edo Tensei zombies for both)
4. Nagato (healthy with legs)


High-Kage

1. Kabuto (assuming no Edo Tensei)
2. Tobirama / Minato (non-Edo, so no Bijuu Mode)
3. Itachi / Kakashi (War Arc) / Gai (up to 7th Gate)
4. Muu
5. 3rd Raikage
6. 2nd Mizukage
7. Onoki
8. Orochimaru (assuming no Edo Tensei)
9. Jiraiya

I did restrict Kaguya and Hamura and all them.

Thank you for actually typing something useful.

I put them in a Kakashi 1v1 situation. In the versus colosseum, they can't use previous seals and such, so Minato and Tobirama would have to make new ftg seals. As I've stated before, neither can throw out kunai, and dodge a Kamui.

Don't even know how Kabuto is #1, that's definitely someone I'd like explained.

8th gate Gai kinda comes with a side effect of death + he had help from Naruto, Minato, Bee and Kakashi against Madara, so he isn't really top ten material. Of course, if 8th gates didn't allow you to die then he would definitely be top ten.

 

[Migster257]

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Care to tell me what's wrong?

Kamui speed is near instant, and BASE Naruto definitely doesn't move close to teleportation speed, which is just about the only speed shown that can dodge a Kamui.

Kabuto? I don't see what Kabuto can do against a Kamui. He isn't in DSM mode yet, so I don't see how he'd win.

 

[LustyLover]

"kamui GG" is a valid argument if Kakashi has intel on the opponents and if he knows of their power/capabilities. Kakashi has shown that he would not hesitate to use it right off the bat when he encountered "Madara" again at the team 7 meetup

Lml, you do realize that this can be said for ANY other character, right? Having intel on your opponents abilities doesn't mean you're going to automatically use your strongest attack. That's not how it works in NV, sorry.

 

[Migster257]

This dude has a point.... Kakashi lost his Holy Eye (see what I did there) .. He didn't die with it he's still alive and he doesn't have it anymore so he drops down in the stats. That's what happens when you use borrowed power and then the owner takes it back one day sadly.

Which is exactly why I put MS in the title. Sharinganless Kakashi doesn't even make top 20.

 

[Gagster]

Care to tell me what's wrong?

Kamui speed is near instant, and BASE Naruto definitely doesn't move close to teleportation speed, which is just about the only speed shown that can dodge a Kamui.

Kabuto? I don't see what Kabuto can do against a Kamui. He isn't in DSM mode yet, so I don't see how he'd win.

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[Migster257]

Lml, you do realize that this can be said for ANY other character, right? Having intel on your opponents abilities doesn't mean you're going to automatically use your strongest attack. That's not how it works in NV, sorry.

No, it can't be said for every other character. In case you didn't notice, not every other character can use their most OP attack right away. It requires prep time.

 

[Migster257]

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It isn't? You should go to the link in the original that I posted.

- Kakashi can canonically warp a human body part in the same time (instant) Obito needs to make it intangible (39)(40)
- Kakashi warps away two Susanoo arrows when both are already at half their way and his Sharingan was still the 3 tomoe one (41)(42)
- Kakashi warps away Minato's Rasengan countered by Juudara really in no time (43), Minato's arm kicked from Madara was hella fast if we think that Minato's body (obviously heavier and so less fast of the arm) went on Gaara so fast that his auto-defense couldn't activate in time
- Kakashi warps away a giant arm of the Gedo Mazo while Madara is already summoning it away with space-time summoning jutsu (44) (Minato couldn't do anything in that situation than ask Kakashi taking care of it)
- Kakashi feints to warp Naruto's Rasengan and then insta-warps away his body before Obito's spikes could hit him, managing to make Obito think that Kakashi missed and he succesfully hit the clone (45)(46)(47). So Kakashi can Kamui away human head sized objects in a more or less instant time and even with fast moving objects/people and unpredictable situations. And he can Kamui away human body sized objects in also nearly istant times, and even giant objects. Thanks to the Kurama's chakra supply from Naruto, Kakashi's Kamui was depicted as a dangerous threat for even the Juubi (48). Just read what is said from databook about Kakashi's Kamui (and that was when it wasn't perfected yet) (49)(50) and what Kakashi says after having faced the Rinnegan and being against one believed to be Uchiha Madara (51). Kakashi's Kamui warped away even Juubi's jinchuriki Madara's Onmyoton Release who nullifies ninjutsu.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Lml, you do realize that this can be said for ANY other character, right? Having intel on your opponents abilities doesn't mean you're going to automatically use your strongest attack. That's not how it works in NV, sorry.

It doesn't automatically mean that but it isn't out of character either. As the manga has shown, Kakashi was willing to use Kamui without hesitation against Obito, whom he thought was Madara. Kakashi now has the reserves to use his MS far more liberally. Sasuke spammed his MS against Danzo without hesitation, and Itachi used tsukuyomi against part 1 Kakashi right at the beginning. why is Kakashi restricted to not using his tech if the conditions are satisfied?

 

[Black Wolf]

I did restrict Kaguya and Hamura and all them.

That kind of removes by default a lot of the people that would actually deserve to be in top 10, though.

Thank you for actually typing something useful.

I put them in a Kakashi 1v1 situation. In the versus colosseum, they can't use previous seals and such, so Minato and Tobirama would have to make new ftg seals. As I've stated before, neither can throw out kunai, and dodge a Kamui.

This is kind of disingenuous, IMO. Almost like saying Nagato needs to find bodies for his Pain pathes before fighting. Or Sasori preparing his puppets. There needs to be a line drawn where "prep" stops becoming "prep" and more so becomes "the norm."

Minato and Tobirama having prepped knives is pretty much the norm. This is your thread, so you can set whatever stipulations you want, but rigging the match to handicap other characters under the guise that they need "prep" to use something isn't really fair (if fairness is what you were going for).

Don't even know how Kabuto is #1, that's definitely someone I'd like explained.

Having the collective ability of the sound five rolled into one further amplified by Sage Mode, the ability to liquify his body (pseudo intangibility), sensing abilities adept enough to grant Genjutsu immunity, Doton tunneling (extremely useful for sneak attacks) in addition to excellent speed, top tier reflexes, and a very unique moveset (Muki Tensei, White Rage) . . . I see him as superior to everyone on that list, overall.

8th gate Gai kinda comes with a side effect of death + he had help from Naruto, Minato, Bee and Kakashi against Madara, so he isn't really top ten material. Of course, if 8th gates didn't allow you to die then he would definitely be top ten.

He will die, but the power of that state is notable enough to warrant a reference in most tier lists (or at least it does to me). Gai was also exhausted and had a broken arm and ribcage during his fight with Madara. He didn't necessarily need Minato's help considering he had already shown the ability to dodge truth seeking orbs when he saved Kakashi.

 

[LustyLover]

It doesn't automatically mean that but it isn't out of character either. As the manga has shown, Kakashi was willing to use Kamui without hesitation against Obito, whom he thought was Madara. Kakashi now has the reserves to use his MS far more liberally. Sasuke spammed his MS against Danzo without hesitation, and Itachi used tsukuyomi against part 1 Kakashi right at the beginning. why is Kakashi restricted to not using his tech if the conditions are satisfied?

Kakashi used Kamui several pages after he was introduced to Madara. That's not necessarily using it right away. Kisame can spam Suiro Sameodori because he has Bijuu-level chakra reserves, yet he doesn't. Why? Because, 99 percent of the time, the person whomever he would be battling would likely be killed in the process. Like I said, realistically in NV, this would not occur; even if it did, you act as if Kakashi's opponent would lie there awaiting his or her death, when this obviously wouldn't be the case. Itachi can use the Totsuka in the first second of a battle; he doesn't. Naruto can use a TBB in the first second of a battle; he doesn't. The list goes on and on. It doesn't matter whether they physically can or not. You should realize this. It took Kakashi, even when he wasn't IC against Obito, multiple pages to even begin to contemplate using it when he had full control over it. The only time a character is going to use their strongest, unbeatable technique is when we want them to. Odds are the opponent has either found a tactical counter to it or won't give them the chance to use it in the first place.

 

[slaton02]

Worst top 10s ever lol. Looks more like a popularity contest
No he isn't btw

 

[Lana Del Taka]

Kakashi isn't even close. Itachi solos

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[Migster257]

That kind of removes by default a lot of the people that would actually deserve to be in top 10, though.



This is kind of disingenuous, IMO. Almost like saying Nagato needs to find bodies for his Pain pathes before fighting. Or Sasori preparing his puppets. There needs to be a line drawn where "prep" stops becoming "prep" and more so becomes "the norm."

Minato and Tobirama having prepped knives is pretty much the norm. This is your thread, so you can set whatever stipulations you want, but rigging the match to handicap other characters under the guise that they need "prep" to use something isn't really fair (if fairness is what you were going for).



Having the collective ability of the sound five rolled into one further amplified by Sage Mode, the ability to liquify his body (pseudo intangibility), sensing abilities adept enough to grant Genjutsu immunity, Doton tunneling (extremely useful for sneak attacks) in addition to excellent speed, top tier reflexes, and a very unique moveset (Muki Tensei, White Rage) . . . I see him as superior to everyone on that list, overall.



He will die, but the power of that state is notable enough to warrant a reference in most tier lists (or at least it does to me). Gai was also exhausted and had a broken arm and ribcage during his fight with Madara. He didn't necessarily need Minato's help considering he had already shown the ability to dodge truth seeking orbs when he saved Kakashi.

Actually, that whole "Minato and Tobirama can't use previous seals," didn't come from me.
I was in the Vs colosseum, and apparently it was a rule, so I just went with it.

My main question is, can Kabuto be instantly Kamui'd?

Kaguya and her sons, I felt didn't really deserve a spot because they haven't been shown enough. Kaguya has barely shown anything and I don't think her sons have shown anything at all, so it's pretty much just hype.

Kaguya hasn't shown much, but has been incredibly powerful, so fine, she can be #1. That still leaves Kakashi in my top ten list so it's fine.

 

[Migster257]

Worst top 10s ever lol. Looks more like a popularity contest
No he isn't btw

If it was a popularity contest, it would be more like.

Kakashi
Sasuke
Naruto
Minato
Obito
Itachi
Sakura
Chiyo
Gaara
Konohamaru

So, no, it isn't a popularity contest. Kindly explain why I'm wrong?