Blackwatch
Active member
I deplore the "borrowed power" notion because it's flat out retarded and it's 100% irrelevant. But I'll play ball with this notion for this thread in the name of that one butthurt thread starter. I know this request will fall on deaf ears, but for those genuinely interested in the debate, I ask you read the entirety of my post before jumping to conclusions. Thank you and enjoy my thread; here's my boys Hollywood Undead to keep you company.
Nagato put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to master all elements, as well as every jutsu his sensei taught him. Then the whole Pain ordeal is an entire subset of ingeniousness and skill to manipulate 6 bodies to do his bidding at once. There was no freebie power up for Nagato. He had the APTITUDE to do all these things with his eyes, but they weren't given to him; he earned that. And that's an important distinction to make.
Same principle applies with Kakashi. We all know how he practiced day and night with his Sharingan and made a world wide name with it, as well as training to increase his stamina and reserves to more aptly use his gift from Obito. And, like pointed out earlier, he spent years upon years upon years upon YEARS having Kamui in his back pocket, but not with the skill needed to use it. He was behind the scenes working and improving. His "borrowed eye" didn't result in an auto Final Susano'O type gift like Sasuke, for instance.
The Life of a Jinchuriki and it's detriments
A very much overlooked aspect in terms of this ridiculous "Borrowed power" debacle. The life of a jinchuriki is one of complete pain, isolation, and misery with literal 0 upsides. The scorn and disdain of an entire world is brought to rest on your shoulders and there's no escape besides death. That's just the grim reality of the situation and it's only the tip of the iceberg. Put yourself in Naruto's, Gaara's, or Killer Bee's shoes. Imagine growing up with nobody to comfort you, being a small child and wondering why every single person you meet prays for your death. The magnitude of that suffering is unimaginable, that sheer isolation from everybody coupled with that sheer hatred of you for something out of your control, that you may or may not even be aware of.
The Kyuubi also FEEDS off hatred. No matter how hard you try to fight it or ignore, he'll find the
The mental instability, the identity crisis issues, the rotting damnation of knowing there's no hope... it's enough to break even the strongest of men. Which is why SO few jinchuriki have ever MADE anything out of this situation. The definition of the word "earn" is to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered or to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to. To the rational mind, anybody able to withstand that kind of life has most definitely EARNED their prize.
What's more, being a jinchuriki has various other negatives. Kurama, for instance, distorted Naruto's chakra control. So, from the get-go, he was at a massive disadvantage. His potential and skill as a shinobi was hindered from day 1 and it made everything that followed that much more difficult for him. In the case of Gaara, he was unable to sleep. The fatigue that must've caused and the effects of insomnia with it are also a huge roadblock for anybody. They had to overcome these dampening factors just to be on par with other ninja and that certainly is NOT fair.
"But it gave them a large chakra pool regardless!" you might be saying, but it's moot if you can't control it. Which is why Naruto had to train extensively in the woods with Sasuke, a revered genius, to hone his chakra skills and again with Ebisu-sensei and Jiraiya to learn the very basics of water walking and making clones. You know how hard it must be to pull that shit off when you've got a demon ****ing up the balance of your chakra and how you can use it? Or being so fatigued and tired that murder becomes a good idea? Or the fact that just mentioning
The initial phases are NOTHING but a pure detriment to the host of Bijuu. You don't even get a chance, you're just ****ed from the start. There's a reason Killer Bee and Naruto are the first perfect jinchuriki. Because it's so INCREDIBLY difficult to survive through and befriend a demon.
The Kyuubi also FEEDS off hatred. No matter how hard you try to fight it or ignore, he'll find the
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and fester off of it. It's like a sick trap; every person you know detests you wholly, and if you feel it back, the monster within will take it and use it to take your body from you. Can you imagine such a plight?The mental instability, the identity crisis issues, the rotting damnation of knowing there's no hope... it's enough to break even the strongest of men. Which is why SO few jinchuriki have ever MADE anything out of this situation. The definition of the word "earn" is to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered or to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to. To the rational mind, anybody able to withstand that kind of life has most definitely EARNED their prize.
What's more, being a jinchuriki has various other negatives. Kurama, for instance, distorted Naruto's chakra control. So, from the get-go, he was at a massive disadvantage. His potential and skill as a shinobi was hindered from day 1 and it made everything that followed that much more difficult for him. In the case of Gaara, he was unable to sleep. The fatigue that must've caused and the effects of insomnia with it are also a huge roadblock for anybody. They had to overcome these dampening factors just to be on par with other ninja and that certainly is NOT fair.
"But it gave them a large chakra pool regardless!" you might be saying, but it's moot if you can't control it. Which is why Naruto had to train extensively in the woods with Sasuke, a revered genius, to hone his chakra skills and again with Ebisu-sensei and Jiraiya to learn the very basics of water walking and making clones. You know how hard it must be to pull that shit off when you've got a demon ****ing up the balance of your chakra and how you can use it? Or being so fatigued and tired that murder becomes a good idea? Or the fact that just mentioning
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is enough to drive the Cloud ninja he's since befriended up a wall with anger.The initial phases are NOTHING but a pure detriment to the host of Bijuu. You don't even get a chance, you're just ****ed from the start. There's a reason Killer Bee and Naruto are the first perfect jinchuriki. Because it's so INCREDIBLY difficult to survive through and befriend a demon.
Taking the Power Within
If you'll recall, Turtle Island is the place specifically for jinchuriki to go to
In order to access the power of your Bijuu, there is a requirement that some of you apparently have forgotten. You have to conquer the hatred within yourself by fighting against yourself [
Beyond that daunting task, one has to take on the Bijuu within themselves. The entities that can crush mountains with a tail swipe, or put massive craters in the earth with an energy blast. You have to confront these things and earn that power. The price of failure, you ask?
To recap, you not only have to fight the hate in YOURSELF, but actual, living MASSES of hate. Are we starting to grasp the magnitude of the kind of hard work, dedication, and perseverance this requires? You mess up once, it's game over. You have to believe in yourself, believe in your skills, and give it your all otherwise it's light out and you're dead without a trace, your body lost to the monster that dwells within. And Naruto is a special example because he not only was able to do with this Kurama, but he was able to do it to ALL Bijuu. This boy as able to give hope to entities so mistreated through all time and make them believers in humanity once more AFTER going toe to toe with all of them. Do I need to get the feats out from that fight?
As for Bijuu Mode upgrade, Naruto pressed himself against the other Bijuu and after solo'ing the war which claimed countless lifes. He maximized his efforts and proved to Kurama, after beating him once already, that they were indeed the ultimate partners and that they needed each other. He scrapped for the sake of humanity and was taking on full fledged Bijuu without hesitation. And like with the above sections, he finally was able to awaken what was always his to take.
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In order to access the power of your Bijuu, there is a requirement that some of you apparently have forgotten. You have to conquer the hatred within yourself by fighting against yourself [
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]. There's no fancy trick, no short cut, nothing like that because you'll never be able to
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; you have to let the hate fade. It's you and the negative feelings that dwell within you. If you cannot defeat those and cast off your hatred, something so hard I can't even imagine it, then you're completely stuck. You can go no further and the Bijuu is only a hindrance forevermore. Killer Bee, for instance, made peace with the very same person who literally tried to
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. In this same fashion, Naruto let go of the torture done onto him to be the man
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believes he is.Beyond that daunting task, one has to take on the Bijuu within themselves. The entities that can crush mountains with a tail swipe, or put massive craters in the earth with an energy blast. You have to confront these things and earn that power. The price of failure, you ask?
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and wait for another jinchuriki who
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it once the beast is locked in the temple. And to beat this Bijuu within, you have to literally strip of it of it's chakra and
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it with your own. But, if the Bijuu overlaps his charka with yours and takes it, guess what? That's right,
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. To recap, you not only have to fight the hate in YOURSELF, but actual, living MASSES of hate. Are we starting to grasp the magnitude of the kind of hard work, dedication, and perseverance this requires? You mess up once, it's game over. You have to believe in yourself, believe in your skills, and give it your all otherwise it's light out and you're dead without a trace, your body lost to the monster that dwells within. And Naruto is a special example because he not only was able to do with this Kurama, but he was able to do it to ALL Bijuu. This boy as able to give hope to entities so mistreated through all time and make them believers in humanity once more AFTER going toe to toe with all of them. Do I need to get the feats out from that fight?
As for Bijuu Mode upgrade, Naruto pressed himself against the other Bijuu and after solo'ing the war which claimed countless lifes. He maximized his efforts and proved to Kurama, after beating him once already, that they were indeed the ultimate partners and that they needed each other. He scrapped for the sake of humanity and was taking on full fledged Bijuu without hesitation. And like with the above sections, he finally was able to awaken what was always his to take.
The Mangekyo Sharingan
Considering everything we've just covered above, let compare it to gaining the Mangekyo Sharingan. To attain this dojutsu, one has to endure great pain much like a jinchuriki. That aforementioned pain causes the Uchiha chakra to sprout and the eyes evolve. I will not denounce the emotional pain one must endure, but that's the only requirement. That agony inside.
No extensive training at a waterfall to conquer an impossible task, no fighting for your very life and limb to utilize what's yours all along, no actual work at all is required. Unless you choose the route of murdering your best friend or family member. But that kind of "work" is not the same a jinchuriki has to put in. Blood, sweat, and tears are put in there... while just blood and tears are involved in the Mangekyo awakening (except Itachi, who was forced to slaughter his entire clan. He had special circumstances). Obito watched his first love die and was granted hax power beond belief. Sasuke learned of Itachi's valor and was granted that same power. It is just not logical to say it requires the same kind of effort that a jinchuriki must put in.
What comes after is a different story, though. One must effectively fight and train directly, like with any new power, to hone their Mangekyo powers. Kakashi mentioned how hard he'd been working with Kamui in his run-in with Deidara, Itachi was a master with Tsukuyomi to be able to mold time effortlessly, and Madara fought the Senju countless times to make his Susano'o the beast it became.
The EMS is a different story.
No extensive training at a waterfall to conquer an impossible task, no fighting for your very life and limb to utilize what's yours all along, no actual work at all is required. Unless you choose the route of murdering your best friend or family member. But that kind of "work" is not the same a jinchuriki has to put in. Blood, sweat, and tears are put in there... while just blood and tears are involved in the Mangekyo awakening (except Itachi, who was forced to slaughter his entire clan. He had special circumstances). Obito watched his first love die and was granted hax power beond belief. Sasuke learned of Itachi's valor and was granted that same power. It is just not logical to say it requires the same kind of effort that a jinchuriki must put in.
What comes after is a different story, though. One must effectively fight and train directly, like with any new power, to hone their Mangekyo powers. Kakashi mentioned how hard he'd been working with Kamui in his run-in with Deidara, Itachi was a master with Tsukuyomi to be able to mold time effortlessly, and Madara fought the Senju countless times to make his Susano'o the beast it became.
The EMS is a different story.
EMS and the freebies
As the user pushes themselves with the Mangekyo Sharingan and overuses the dojutsu, their eyes lose the light. This is obviously a serious problem, but has such a simple answer it's almost insulting.
Just pluck another set of eyes in and game over. Sasuke pulled off the bandages and his Susano'O was already upgraded and his Amaterasu control was as well, with no real rhyme or reason. What's more, he freely admits that it is ITACHI'S POWER flowing into him. Sasuke pushed himself against Danzo and the Raikage and received upgrades via his hatred manifestating itself. It's not the same caliber of work that Naruto and Bee put in, but it's a hell of lot more than just taking off some bandages and being improved tenfold.
What's more Naruto used his skills in Sage Mode to combine with Bijuu Mode, something that required a special balance and chakra skill to control to keep in motion. If you'll recall, Kurama prevented Naruto from doing this earlier because he hated the Frogs. Sasuke, however, his body was just magically ripe with Jugo's cells and was able to sync it perfectly with his Susano'o. Funny how that works, eh? No disrespect, but it's not the same quality of power or "solo'ing" that so many of his fanboys like to proclaim.
Madara, despite awakening the Rinnegan on his deathbed, simply popped one in like a
Just pluck another set of eyes in and game over. Sasuke pulled off the bandages and his Susano'O was already upgraded and his Amaterasu control was as well, with no real rhyme or reason. What's more, he freely admits that it is ITACHI'S POWER flowing into him. Sasuke pushed himself against Danzo and the Raikage and received upgrades via his hatred manifestating itself. It's not the same caliber of work that Naruto and Bee put in, but it's a hell of lot more than just taking off some bandages and being improved tenfold.
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What's more Naruto used his skills in Sage Mode to combine with Bijuu Mode, something that required a special balance and chakra skill to control to keep in motion. If you'll recall, Kurama prevented Naruto from doing this earlier because he hated the Frogs. Sasuke, however, his body was just magically ripe with Jugo's cells and was able to sync it perfectly with his Susano'o. Funny how that works, eh? No disrespect, but it's not the same quality of power or "solo'ing" that so many of his fanboys like to proclaim.
Madara, despite awakening the Rinnegan on his deathbed, simply popped one in like a
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and the next chapter was pulling off
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against Bijuu. Some shenanigans if I can say myselfWhy Nagato/Kakashi are exceptions
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Nagato put his nose to the grindstone and worked his ass off to master all elements, as well as every jutsu his sensei taught him. Then the whole Pain ordeal is an entire subset of ingeniousness and skill to manipulate 6 bodies to do his bidding at once. There was no freebie power up for Nagato. He had the APTITUDE to do all these things with his eyes, but they weren't given to him; he earned that. And that's an important distinction to make.
Same principle applies with Kakashi. We all know how he practiced day and night with his Sharingan and made a world wide name with it, as well as training to increase his stamina and reserves to more aptly use his gift from Obito. And, like pointed out earlier, he spent years upon years upon years upon YEARS having Kamui in his back pocket, but not with the skill needed to use it. He was behind the scenes working and improving. His "borrowed eye" didn't result in an auto Final Susano'O type gift like Sasuke, for instance.
Too Long Didn't Read?
Just read it, how do you expect to contribute and be taken seriously without knowing the content? All the same...
- Being a Bijuu has more negatives than positives and requires you to risk your life to use the power you've earned
- Free powers after surgery doesn't compete
- Nagato and Kakashi had the ABILITY to use these things, but had to work hard to GAIN that ability unlike aforementioned users
- Being a Bijuu has more negatives than positives and requires you to risk your life to use the power you've earned
- Free powers after surgery doesn't compete
- Nagato and Kakashi had the ABILITY to use these things, but had to work hard to GAIN that ability unlike aforementioned users
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