[Theory] Possibility of Naruto and Sasuke being reincarnations of Hagoromo and Hamura. Part 2!

[jazza1017]

I would agree with the theory, but not only does Hogoromo state it, but Kaguya also says that they are reincarnations of her grandsons. So no, I don't think they are reincarnations of the sage of 6 paths and his brother, although things may possibly change.

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[Ultimateone]

Chakra has not been proven to be the same thing as one's soul! By that logic, it would be safe to assume that Hiruzen never went to the afterlife at all and instead would have been trapped within the Shingami. Same with Minato. Hence that logic of yours makes no sense.

Also, where did you get that idea that Hamura's staff looks like a bird?

actually, it has been proven. remember that people who get trapped in the shinigami could not be revived through edo tensie because your soul has to be in the pure world, and has to be resurrected in the impure world. as they were in the shinigami's belly, they were in neither the pure world or the impure world. thus hiruzen nor minato never made it too the afterlife. chakra and sould are the same thing in the manga. remember chakra is physical plus spiritual energy. thus you can't have chakra without the spiritual or in other words spirit. so this has just been dis-proven completely by myself and others.

go look at hamura's staff. it kind of looks like a bird flying, but it is not a moon as hogoromo has both sides on his staff.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

First, I have a question for all the good debaters of NarutoBase who are debating here.

Is there any rule that states that one person cannot be a vessel for two different transmigrants?

Ok, this was just a question to draw your attention on some logical devices - that is sometimes, establishing proper rules can avoid unnecessary discussion.

Now, on topic, I am 100% that Naruto may represent the same will that Hagoromo represented, but Naruto is not Hagoromo's reincarnation. I even believe that though Naruto is said to be the reincarnation of Ashura, Naruto is much more than Ashura's reincarnation. A blatant evidence is the fact that even hagoromo received a prophecy of Naruto's birth and actions.

See, there is a god in the Narutoverse who once chose Hagoromo to do a part of a job, and now, the same god has chosen Naruto to finish the job.

 

[KRZYNASTY]

Naruto and Sasuke are the incarnations of Ashura and Indra. Hagoromo stated so, Kaguya stated so and Naruto was aware of it. Reincarnation means that someone is reborn within the body of another person. Ashura was reborn within Naruto and thus his chakra is present. Chakra is the spiritual power of humans, their soul. Hagoromo stated that he know only exists as chakra, and he is a soul at this point.

Minato,Hiruzen,Tobirama and Hashirama were all trapped within the Shinigami, or so their spirits were. That is why Sasuke needed Orochimaru to cut up the belly of the Shinigami, so that their souls could return to the afterlife and from there be revived through the Edo Tensei. (Edo Tensei binds the soul from the afterlife with a body in the real world. If the spirit is not within the afterlife, they cannot be bound to a body. Such as being sealed inside the Shinigami.)

Was about to post close to the same points made here after getting back to my computer.

Chakra has been proven to be the mixing of physical and spiritual energy thus, the soul of both Ashura and Indra are present within Sasuke and Naruto, which makes them reincarnations of their past ancestors.

 

[Nirmologist]

there reincarnations of the hagoromo's sons nuff said

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Was about to post close to the same points made here after getting back to my computer.

Chakra has been proven to be the mixing of physical and spiritual energy thus, the soul of both Ashura and Indra are present within Sasuke and Naruto, which makes them reincarnations of their past ancestors.

I disagree with this view. If the sould of Ashura and Indra are within Naruto and Sasuke, then you are saying Naruto has two souls and Sasuke has two as well. This would be BS logic. In addition, I think your spiritual energy has nothing to do with your soul because your sould is what allows you to build spiritual energy through training and experience.

Saying that spiritual energy is soul is the same as saying physical energy is the same as the body. The soul is the source and container for spiritual energy while the body is the source and container for physical energy.

If Naruto had Ashura's sould and Sasuke had Indra's soul, then both of them would be acting exactly like Ashura and Indra, and would not be cooperating just as BZ found it weird. The difference between distinct reincarnation is proof that the reincarnation mentioned is partial - that is Ashura gives some of his chakra and knowledge to Naruto, but not his soul.

 

[KRZYNASTY]

I disagree with this view. If the sould of Ashura and Indra are within Naruto and Sasuke, then you are saying Naruto has two souls and Sasuke has two as well. This would be BS logic. In addition, I think your spiritual energy has nothing to do with your soul because your sould is what allows you to build spiritual energy through training and experience.

Saying that spiritual energy is soul is the same as saying physical energy is the same as the body. The soul is the source and container for spiritual energy while the body is the source and container for physical energy.

If Naruto had Ashura's sould and Sasuke had Indra's soul, then both of them would be acting exactly like Ashura and Indra, and would not be cooperating just as BZ found it weird. The difference between distinct reincarnation is proof that the reincarnation mentioned is partial - that is Ashura gives some of his chakra and knowledge to Naruto, but not his soul.

Reincarnations do not exactly become their ancestors like you think they do.

For example, a lot of monks in this time believe that Gandhihas been reincarnated since his assassination almost 60 years ago. The reason is that many of the boys believed to have been the reincarnation do not exactly hold the same knowledge of him, but that their personalities and characteristics can be seen. The same can be seen with Naruto and Sasuke.

Naruto shares the same believes and behaves somewhat like Ashura (as mentioned by Hagomoro).
Sasuke in turn then shares the same believes and behaves somewhat like Indra (by comparing him to Naruto).

Just because someone is the reincarnation of their ancestor doesn't mean they're going to have all the knowledge. In fact, Naruto even realized before it being confirmed by Hagomoro himself that there was something different about him and Sasuke (i.e. the fact that he felt the presence of someone else in him).

And no, they wouldn't have "two souls", but the presence of the person he's reincarnated as will be felt.

 

[Ultimateone]

I disagree with this view. If the sould of Ashura and Indra are within Naruto and Sasuke, then you are saying Naruto has two souls and Sasuke has two as well. This would be BS logic. In addition, I think your spiritual energy has nothing to do with your soul because your sould is what allows you to build spiritual energy through training and experience.

Saying that spiritual energy is soul is the same as saying physical energy is the same as the body. The soul is the source and container for spiritual energy while the body is the source and container for physical energy.

If Naruto had Ashura's sould and Sasuke had Indra's soul, then both of them would be acting exactly like Ashura and Indra, and would not be cooperating just as BZ found it weird. The difference between distinct reincarnation is proof that the reincarnation mentioned is partial - that is Ashura gives some of his chakra and knowledge to Naruto, but not his soul.

have you ever seen avatar, the cartoon not the movie? in the cartoon aang is the reincarnation of the avatar, but he is not the same as the ones that came before. there have even been women that have been the avatar to even further argue that point.

now apply that logic here and you'll understand. ashura and naruto share similar traits and qulities, as has been explained by hogoromo himself. but that does not make them the same person, nor does it guarantee they will make similar choices. they even pointed out the similarities between naruto and hashirama, who was also a transmigrant of ashura.

also the physical part of chakra is talking about the physical. more to the point the physical energy, which is why they get tired while using chakra. so yes in order to use ninjutsu you have to mold chakra with your spiritual and physical energies. thus chakra is both physical and spiritual. physical meaning body and spiritual meaning spirit.

 

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Wouldn't naruto be able to do spirit bomb if chakra is spiritual energy? Lol

Also kaguya herself says after bz explains the plot. I hate you hagoromo and hamura! Why would she say that if it wasn't them? I think it is possible.

 

[ryo okashi]

Chakra has not been proven to be the same thing as one's soul! By that logic, it would be safe to assume that Hiruzen never went to the afterlife at all and instead would have been trapped within the Shingami. Same with Minato. Hence that logic of yours makes no sense.

Also, where did you get that idea that Hamura's staff looks like a bird?

re-read again... it more like a bat rather than a bird.. hahahaha